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Semi - OT: Weird Band Dilemma


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It's interesting to read the different takes on this. Some people appear to read it as variations on "why can't we all just get along?" and miss, utterly, what I think is the salient point: Is it worth the risk to your health and--potentially--life to play with people who don't take Covid 19 seriously? Advice to talk it out, etc. is well meant, no doubt, but useless in the face of a microscopic virus that has no ears and couldn't care less about your political leanings.

 

It's a crappy world when a public health issue has become politicized. This shouldn't be red or blue, it should be about sick or well; live or dead. The fact that some have politicized it says a great deal about their world view. (Then they complain about a thread with a political subtext? Er...right.)

 

Stay safe...that's what I say. And keep your daughter out of toxic environments. As recent (and historical) events have clearly shown, there are things besides germs that can kill you...one of them is racism. Whether your band mates are a direct threat or not, there will be others who gravitate into their orbit who just might be a problem.

 

Grey

I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play.

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I would try to separate ignorance and political differences from peoples' value as a human being.

Everyone is ignorant about something.

 

I would have to quit my California job, cut off most of my friends and half of my family if I let politics or ignorance dictate who I associate with.

J a z z  P i a n o 8 8

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Yamaha C7D

Montage8 | CP300 | CP4 | SK1-73 | OB6 | Seven

K8.2 | 3300 | CPSv.3

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I would try to separate ignorance and political differences from peoples' value as a human being.

Everyone is ignorant about something.

 

I would have to quit my California job, cut off most of my friends and half of my family if I let politics or ignorance dictate who I associate with.

 

We are discussing a different matter here, you seem obsessed with the political aspect of this but that's not the issue.

 

Yes, everybody is ignorant about something. I am ignorant about sewing and fly fishing but I cannot pass on a potentially fatal disease with my ignorance.

Defending ignorance as something everybody has IS ignorance.

 

Whether people believe Covid is a "hoax" or not, 4% of the world's population has 24% of the worlds cases - that would be the US.

 

Over 172,000 American lives have been lost, even a "hoax" would be hard pressed to fake or "re-assign" that many deaths without EVERYBODY knowing the FACTS of the situation.

We lead the world in deaths from a preventable disease and considerable alleviation is easily available to anybody who cares about themselves and their families.

I don't care what other believe, it is a hopeless situation. If their beliefs could potential affect my life in a profoundly negative fashion, I avoid them. Simple.

 

In the end, Covid 19 will raise the average IQ of the American People.

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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I may be reading between the lines too much, but it sounds from Jason's first post like this band needs him a lot more than he needs them. If they want to keep their current social club vibe where they can trample over his feelings about things like how to stay safe from the virus or why he would choose to partner with a woman of color, then they can do that but they shouldn't expect Jason to stick around. Again, taking away the specifics about who believes what, I don't see this as a tough dilemma to solve. You've got several band members who like to engage in a certain kind of dialogue and one who is offended by it. They either try can either approach the situation with a greater degree of comity (not "comedy," though that might be help as well) or they can play Born to be Wild without the badass organ parts.

Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro

Home: Vintage Vibe 64

 

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I would try to separate ignorance and political differences from peoples' value as a human being.

Everyone is ignorant about something.

 

I would have to quit my California job, cut off most of my friends and half of my family if I let politics or ignorance dictate who I associate with.

 

We are discussing a different matter here, you seem obsessed with the political aspect of this but that's not the issue.

 

Yes, everybody is ignorant about something. I am ignorant about sewing and fly fishing but I cannot pass on a potentially fatal disease with my ignorance.

Defending ignorance as something everybody has IS ignorance.

 

Whether people believe Covid is a "hoax" or not, 4% of the world's population has 24% of the worlds cases - that would be the US.

 

Over 172,000 American lives have been lost, even a "hoax" would be hard pressed to fake or "re-assign" that many deaths without EVERYBODY knowing the FACTS of the situation.

We lead the world in deaths from a preventable disease and considerable alleviation is easily available to anybody who cares about themselves and their families.

I don't care what other believe, it is a hopeless situation. If their beliefs could potential affect my life in a profoundly negative fashion, I avoid them. Simple.

 

In the end, Covid 19 will raise the average IQ of the American People.

 

The problem is that your facts are not my facts, and vice versa.

J a z z  P i a n o 8 8

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Yamaha C7D

Montage8 | CP300 | CP4 | SK1-73 | OB6 | Seven

K8.2 | 3300 | CPSv.3

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https://covidusa.net

 

Prove it wrong using verifiable facts? One person says so, is not facts. There are numerous national and international data bases that will need to be disproved in a substantial and factual manner. Good luck with that.

 

The virus is not political, it does not care what anybody believes about anything.

 

Those who chose to avoid the careless have a better chance of emerging unscathed.

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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Clearly the OP should leave the band. Now is an ideal excuse to make changes in your personal priorities.

 

I find it pretty silly to present a one sided political view that paints the other side negatively and then claim the post isn't political. A non-political version of this post would be "I'm in a band where the other members share beliefs that are different than mine, but only since the covid situation have the differences made me very uncomfortable."

 

Just leave the band.

 

Also to other members: both of these statements are true: covid-19 is real, covid-19 is political. Those are not opposites, the world needs more nuanced thinking.

Keyboards: Nord Electro 6D 73, Korg SV-1 88, Minilogue XD, Yamaha YPG-625

Bonus: Boss RC-3 Loopstation

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https://covidusa.net

 

Prove it wrong using verifiable facts? One person says so, is not facts. There are numerous national and international data bases that will need to be disproved in a substantial and factual manner. Good luck with that.

 

The virus is not political, it does not care what anybody believes about anything.

 

Those who chose to avoid the careless have a better chance of emerging unscathed.

 

We are in a post-facts world. Lots of bubbles of belief-confirming plausible and professionally done bullshit that floats around out there and it has further divided people. Case in point, that "plandemic" garbage. That was making the rounds within my family, though thankfully I stay blissfully ignorant of whatever is riling them up these days, after ditching social media (excepting moderated forums of course!)

 

Some pesky study or article goes against your gut feelings? Declare it "fake" or "biased" and it won't take much effort to find a well-constructed video or article or news channel that provides a completely alternate set of information. That isn't "balance", it's fooling ourselves with propaganda. George Orwell would be pretty horrified by what we have going on I reckon, he was inspired to write 1984 in part by fake news articles about the Spanish civil war (made-up battle in one case). Fake facts aren't anything new, or any more harmful--we've just made it easier to be surrounded by it, and humans like to hear simple good vs evil delineations when it comes to things. Unfortunately that's hardly how issues really are when you start looking at context or history...solution? Don't look at those things! Profit!

 

People don't want to face the fact that we are staring a really bad pandemic in the face. That's understandable. We all want to put our heads in the sand or plug our ears like the hear no evil monkey. But we need to be looking toward science and people that study these things for a living, and who (despite conspiracy garbage to the contrary) don't have a vested interest in making this seem more dire than it is. There are people with vested interests in this whole thing, but they are hardly most of the epidemiologists.

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I find it pretty silly to present a one sided political view that paints the other side negatively and then claim the post isn't political.

 

If we didn't know Jason from 7,270 posts over 14 years, we might suspect him of trying to sneak in a political message.

 

But we do, and he wasn't.

 

Now when it comes to Hammond clones, fuggetabout, the guy's got no cred at all.

 

Alright, time to cleanse the palate with a bracing clone war debate!

Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro

Home: Vintage Vibe 64

 

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I find it pretty silly to present a one sided political view that paints the other side negatively and then claim the post isn't political.

 

If we didn't know Jason from 7,270 posts over 14 years, we might suspect him of trying to sneak in a political message.

 

But we do, and he wasn't.

 

Now when it comes to Hammond clones, fuggetabout, the guy's got no cred at all.

 

Alright, time to cleanse the palate with a bracing clone war debate!

 

Lol knowing our esteemed member's posting style, he was quite clearly trying to limit political implications while still trying to give enough context for us to understand where he's coming from. Pretty restrained compared to if someone had posted shitty inauthentic pocketless reggae.

 

But sure, he mentioned names and implied political opinions. Probably time for dB to nuke this thread, I'm thinking Jason got what he needed out of it by now.

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I find it pretty silly to present a one sided political view that paints the other side negatively and then claim the post isn't political.

 

If we didn't know Jason from 7,270 posts over 14 years, we might suspect him of trying to sneak in a political message.

 

I couldn't care less about post count nonsense, the last vestige of a non-argument. He literally made political statements with a slant and then said it wasn't being political, it's putting toothpaste back in the tube, it's silly whether you signed up last week like me or 14 years ago.

 

If someone feels noticeably uncomfortable in a band over important personal beliefs, just take the opportunity to bow out without hard feelings.

 

I left a band over the winter that I had been in for more than half a decade, whose members included family members and close friends. I made the decision over my personal priorities and it left the band reeling, it genuinely risked important relationships in my life. Jason's decision is much easier.

Keyboards: Nord Electro 6D 73, Korg SV-1 88, Minilogue XD, Yamaha YPG-625

Bonus: Boss RC-3 Loopstation

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I couldn't care less about post count nonsense, the last vestige of a non-argument. .

 

The point is not that people with higher counts deserve more latitude or anything like that. The point is that after reading thousands of posts over many years, you get a sense of whether someone tends to bring politics into a discussion. Some people do, including posts in this thread. Jason does not. Was his post edited to highest academic standards? No, but that's also the Jason we know.

 

I agree there is too much political content overall in this thread for it to survive, which is too bad, because there should be possible to discuss how to resolve or avoid political differences with folks you make music with. That's the "meta" discussion that this thread was supposed to be, but fell short of.

 

You're right it's much more difficult when you've been playing with people for a long time. Jason's case is open and shut. Other folks have much more heart-wrenching decisions to make.

Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro

Home: Vintage Vibe 64

 

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Attempting to be non-political about the politics, one thing I haven't seen mentioned about what Jason wrote was this.

 

These 5 guys do things by group text which is a pain in the ass and not always professional I think. It gets stupid but the last few times I was in this group text they were saying bad things â¦

 

It's one thing when you're hanging out with the band at rehearsal or wherever and the political or ignorant talk starts up. You can walk away, change the subject, start playing the next tune, etc. But when it's messages popping on your phone, that shit doesn't go away, knowwhatImean? If you're doing something else and can't reply to tell them to shut it, you keep getting the annoying and unnecessary interruptions. I've been in bands where they start getting political and even though I've never said my opinion, maybe it's the look on my face, they stop themselves and say, "oh, Joe's here, let's not talk about that!" :laugh:

 

Heck I've gotten annoyed at band group texts when one of the band members keeps sending versions of songs he likes, and it's probably appropriate. I'd just rather get them later in an email instead of NOW in a text message. But that band member doesn't really do emailâ¦

"I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck

 

"The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI

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By this coming weekend, the United States will cross the dividing line equaling THREE TIMES the death toll of the war in Vietnam. That's 58,318 lost in Vietnam times 3 = 174,954. Our current death toll from Covid 19 stands at 172,511. Given that we're losing about a thousand American citizens a day, we'll get there Friday or by Saturday at the latest.

 

Okay...okay...I get it...they're not really dead. They're just playing dead, right? They're going to jump up and yell, "Just kidding!" and go back to their lives. Their loved ones will wipe their tears and be grateful that it was all just a cruel hoax.

 

What with all the suddenly empty graves, it'll be a while before professional grave diggers need to dig more holes, so they'll be out of jobs and need Federal assistance to get by. Get a bill going to give them financial support. Show some compassion, people! Grave diggers need to eat, too!

 

What the hell is wrong with people that we can lose more people in six months than we lost in the entire, drawn-out, dragging-on-forever Vietnam war, but they don't care?

 

Sickening, is what it is. (...pun intended...I need gallows humor to get past how callous some people are about the suffering of fellow Americans...and the rest of the world, for that matter...)

 

Grey

I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play.

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What I would suggest is when this talk comes up (whatever it is that you don't want to talk about) just tell them that you don't want to engage in the discussion and request that they do the same when you're around. Rather then get frustrated about it just tell them that talking politics and religion is never a good thing, it doesn't get anyone anywhere and no one is going to change their position so there is no good to come out of it.
What Dave said.
These are only my opinions, not supported by any actual knowledge, experience, or expertise.
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By this coming weekend, the United States will cross the dividing line equaling THREE TIMES the death toll of the war in Vietnam. That's 58,318 lost in Vietnam times 3 = 174,954. Our current death toll from Covid 19 stands at 172,511. Given that we're losing about a thousand American citizens a day, we'll get there Friday or by Saturday at the latest.

 

Okay...okay...I get it...they're not really dead. They're just playing dead, right? They're going to jump up and yell, "Just kidding!" and go back to their lives. Their loved ones will wipe their tears and be grateful that it was all just a cruel hoax.

 

What with all the suddenly empty graves, it'll be a while before professional grave diggers need to dig more holes, so they'll be out of jobs and need Federal assistance to get by. Get a bill going to give them financial support. Show some compassion, people! Grave diggers need to eat, too!

 

What the hell is wrong with people that we can lose more people in six months than we lost in the entire, drawn-out, dragging-on-forever Vietnam war, but they don't care?

 

Sickening, is what it is. (...pun intended...I need gallows humor to get past how callous some people are about the suffering of fellow Americans...and the rest of the world, for that matter...)

 

Grey

Wait till the Yellowstone super volcano blows. You think we have it bad now....

J a z z  P i a n o 8 8

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Yamaha C7D

Montage8 | CP300 | CP4 | SK1-73 | OB6 | Seven

K8.2 | 3300 | CPSv.3

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I would be inclined to peace out of such a situation. Sounds unhealthy on multiple levels and not worth it.

 

Totally agree! If your daughter doesn't feel comfortable there because you have an interracial family, they really don't sound like the type of people you want to hang out with in the long run. You're talented and you shouldn't have to compromise or hide who you or your family are. You're too good for that.

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Wow, I missed that bit in the first post.

 

I have a mixed marriage (by "race" or ethnicity or whatever, we are both human so that's the way I look at it) and if I thought for a nano-second that people I was around anywhere had an issue with it...let's just say I'd get out of there for their own safety.

 

Seeing as how my kids are half-Chinese I'm already a bit wary with all the "Kung Flu" asshats looking to lay some blame down.

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I find it pretty silly to present a one sided political view that paints the other side negatively and then claim the post isn't political.

 

If we didn't know Jason from 7,270 posts over 14 years, we might suspect him of trying to sneak in a political message.

 

I couldn't care less about post count nonsense, the last vestige of a non-argument. He literally made political statements with a slant and then said it wasn't being political, it's putting toothpaste back in the tube, it's silly whether you signed up last week like me or 14 years ago.

 

If someone feels noticeably uncomfortable in a band over important personal beliefs, just take the opportunity to bow out without hard feelings.

 

I left a band over the winter that I had been in for more than half a decade, whose members included family members and close friends. I made the decision over my personal priorities and it left the band reeling, it genuinely risked important relationships in my life. Jason's decision is much easier.

 

So my decision is easier? You don't know that? You aren't in my shoes. I have a lot of shared history with these guys and our circle of friends goes beyond the music, If it was that easy I wouldn't have posted anything.

"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"

 

 

noblevibes.com

 

 

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I left a band over the winter that I had been in for more than half a decade, whose members included family members and close friends. I made the decision over my personal priorities and it left the band reeling, it genuinely risked important relationships in my life. Jason's decision is much easier.

 

So my decision is easier? You don't know that? You aren't in my shoes. I have a lot of shared history with these guys and our circle of friends goes beyond the music, If it was that easy I wouldn't have posted anything.

 

I guarantee your decision is easier. Exhibit A: the rest of the band is making you and your family feel uncomfortable. Exhibit B: you have an easy excuse to get out of the band during covid. Exhibit C: the band can barely do anything right now anyway.

 

My reason for leaving my band was purely personal circumstances and I had to make that decision at the rest of the band's expense, in addition to the fact that it blindsided them.

 

Just leave the band now and you'll have a lot of weight off your shoulders with minimal fallout.

Keyboards: Nord Electro 6D 73, Korg SV-1 88, Minilogue XD, Yamaha YPG-625

Bonus: Boss RC-3 Loopstation

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These 5 guys do things by group text ... the last few times I was in this group text they were saying bad things about Cuomo and Fauci. ... I have an interracial family and a black daughter I raised ... I know how they feel about BLM and protests also. ... I am figuring out what to do.
For the sake of the discussion, here's a reverse take on what to do: tell them in the group text, in no uncertain terms, that you support and agree with Cuomo and Fauci and think they're doing the right thing, and tell them that you and your daughter strongly support BLM and you are offended to hear attacks on it. Then sit back and see what happens. Maybe the problem will resolve itself. :)
These are only my opinions, not supported by any actual knowledge, experience, or expertise.
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One of the hardest things I've ever had to do in my life was to tell one of my two best friends that our friendship was over. Twenty years of close friendship down the drain. He was sleeping with my girlfriend and my other friend's wife. Gawd, what a mess. It was a fraught conversation. My (ex-)girlfriend--who was present for the conversation--was eating it up, which revealed something about her that I had not known--that she was the kind to take pleasure in drama and pain that she had helped create. Well, fine, sweetie-pie. Wish you two well. As it happened, my (ex-)friend and (ex-)girlfriend married, but it didn't last long. I guess I had the last laugh. Still waiting for the chuckles to begin, but it's been quite a while and I still don't feel the least bit mirthful about the whole thing.

 

Anyway, sometimes it's not easy to have those conversations. You have my sympathy.

 

The choice is yours, of course, not mine. I'm sure my advice is clear enough. It's worth what it cost you. You'll have to weigh a hundred factors: Friendship, music, safety, your daughter's safety and comfort, and all the other things on the scales. You read the dial and decide what to do.

 

Grey

I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play.

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If you're still trying to come up with a way to back away from your band mates, call it "social distancing of an extreme nature." Maybe a name will make it easier.

 

Whether you have a big conversation with these guys or not is up to you. Maybe it's one of those times where you could just kinda fade away, citing Covid or other obligations, and avoid confrontation. I know my "extreme social distancing" from my erstwhile friend was difficult. To this day, things happen and I think that I'd like to talk to my buddy. No can do. I don't even know where he is anymore, although a friend said he thinks he heard him DJing on a radio station in VA years ago. Who knows? It's difficult to let go of people you care about, but sometimes it's best in the long run. A formal goodbye might give you closure by drawing a line...before and after. Yesterday I was close to them, today I am not. On the other hand, it's hard to do, so maybe it would be easier to just fade away.

 

You can try to change their minds, though I doubt it will work and probably lead to a great deal of animosity. People of that nature are emboldened by the social climate these days; they don't back down because they sense that they're on the ascendancy and feel that their time is coming. In that, they're right, but it doesn't equate to being on the right side of history. There are numerous historical examples of this sort of social movement coming to the fore. In hindsight, not one is viewed in a positive light once the dust settles. That doesn't mean that they don't do it again and again and again... We're in for a rough ride over the next couple of years and your friendships are not the only ones that will be tested. Pretty much everyone will face this sort of crisis. I've lost several friends and acquaintances since the rise of He Who Must Not Be Named, though no one I'm truly close to, fortunately. In some cases I can't say that I'm surprised, but in one case it came out of the blue. I had no idea that he felt that way about certain issues. I look at current events as a litmus test of peoples' personality. They reveal their underlying nature in adversity, whether good or bad. Sometimes it's an unpleasant surprise.

 

If you choose to remain close to your friends, it will cost you, even if it's only ongoing stress. Is it worth the price?

 

Grey

I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play.

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Wait till the Yellowstone super volcano blows. You think we have it bad now....

 

Yellowstone would be good, but I tend to think in terms of something space-related that we don't see coming...alien invasion or a meteorite strike, but that doesn't mean we couldn't go for the gold and have a three-fer. Imagine Yellowstone, the ugly-assed aliens from Independence Day, and the meteor(ite) from Armageddon or Deep Impact, all at the same time. Yeah...let's get some serious apocalyptic action going here! I want Jeff Goldblum and Morgan Freeman on my team. Further casting to be announced in the coming weeks.

 

Oh, and can I have Gal Gadot? She doesn't have to be in the movie, I just want her hanging around in my real life. Hey, a guy can dream, can't he?

 

Grey

I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play.

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Wait till the Yellowstone super volcano blows. You think we have it bad now....

 

Yellowstone would be good, but I tend to think in terms of something space-related that we don't see coming...alien invasion or a meteorite strike, but that doesn't mean we couldn't go for the gold and have a three-fer. Imagine Yellowstone, the ugly-assed aliens from Independence Day, and the meteor(ite) from Armageddon or Deep Impact, all at the same time.

I for one welcome our new overlords. :wink:

Samuel B. Lupowitz

Musician. Songwriter. Food Enthusiast. Bad Pun Aficionado.

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Wait till the Yellowstone super volcano blows. You think we have it bad now....

 

Yellowstone would be good, but I tend to think in terms of something space-related that we don't see coming...alien invasion or a meteorite strike, but that doesn't mean we couldn't go for the gold and have a three-fer. Imagine Yellowstone, the ugly-assed aliens from Independence Day, and the meteor(ite) from Armageddon or Deep Impact, all at the same time. Yeah...let's get some serious apocalyptic action going here! I want Jeff Goldblum and Morgan Freeman on my team. Further casting to be announced in the coming weeks.

 

Oh, and can I have Gal Gadot? She doesn't have to be in the movie, I just want her hanging around in my real life. Hey, a guy can dream, can't he?

 

Grey

 

The alien invasion could come in exactly the same form as Covid-19.

J a z z  P i a n o 8 8

--

Yamaha C7D

Montage8 | CP300 | CP4 | SK1-73 | OB6 | Seven

K8.2 | 3300 | CPSv.3

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