El Lobo Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 sorry if this dead horse has been beaten too much for you. If so, please go to another thread. I've read lots of posts on this subject, but I want to frame it as: best piano action and sound in a digital keyboard (not an acoustic piano), regardless of cost. Also would like internal speakers, but would be willing to forget that if it means lower quality piano action or AP sound. Backstory: based on comments on this forum, I bought a Casio PX-S3000. My business partner got a S1000. Then I gave my grandson a 1000 with the 3 pedals. He's taking online piano lessons and practicing daily. He is my daughter's son, in Berkeley. My son has 4 kids in L.A. The 2 younger girls said they want to take online piano lessons as part of their stay-at-home schooling. I offered to gift them with the same keyboard I gifted my Berkeley grandson. But then I thought about it. There's been some criticism of the piano action on the S1000 and S3000, and I understand it. I love my 3000 and I enjoy playing it. My grandson is doing well on his 1000 and his lessons. But I'm curious, if price is not a concern, what do the esteemed members of this forum think is the digital keyboard with the very best piano action and sound? I might get one for myself and ship my 3000 to the grandkids. Or I might buy it for my grandkids and keep my 3000. Or I might just get them the 1000 and call it a day. But my curiosity is up and I'm wondering what the wisdom of the group is about the absolute best piano action and sound in a digital keyboard. Thanks in advance for any comments. Quote These are only my opinions, not supported by any actual knowledge, experience, or expertise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timwat Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 I'd be tempted by the Yamaha Avantgrand line. There's also the Casio Grand Hybrid line with the Bechstein action in them. Quote .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 Kawai Novus 10 and 5. I believe that covers all of them. The Kawai and Yamaha models mentioned are considered most piano like because their design is pulled off their grand piano actions. The Casio is also a worthy effort and more affordable. https://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical_instruments/pianos/avantgrand/index.html https://kawaius.com/pianos/hybrid https://music.casio.com/en/products/digital_pianos/ghs/ Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Lobo Posted August 19, 2020 Author Share Posted August 19, 2020 Wow. Thanks for that, guys. I probably never would have known that such things even existed if I hadn't asked the question here. I'm probably not ready to spend $6K - $11K on a digital piano. But I'm gonna look into it some more and think about it ... There's a Casio for about $4K. What if I said price is *somewhat* of an object? Quote These are only my opinions, not supported by any actual knowledge, experience, or expertise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 You want a console? Or a slab on a table stand? Also, how are the hands? Did you come up playIng acoustic pianos? Or would you find them work for your muscles? Any arthritis or wrist issues ever? You have to play these instruments with thoughtful technique. Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Lobo Posted August 19, 2020 Author Share Posted August 19, 2020 You want a console? Or a slab on a table stand?I dunno. I was asking the question to jumpstart my research. I'm probably thinking slab, to be honest. I didn't know these hybrids existed until now. That's a whole new concept to me. I liked the Casio 1000/3000 in its furniture stand. I thought I might be able to get even better piano action and sound if I lifted the price ceiling. Well, yeah, if I lift it way up. I've played a number of acoustic pianos. They vary in their action quite a bit. I guess I would not want stiff action. But I was also thinking of an instrument for grandkids to learn to play piano on. They have access to a good acoustic piano (Steinway console) but their father, my son, wants them to be able to play and practice with headphones. Quote These are only my opinions, not supported by any actual knowledge, experience, or expertise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Yamaha P-515 Kawai ES8 Those would be my picks in a digital slab piano with built in speakers in your price range. You can get them console style stand and pedals too. Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timwat Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 But my curiosity is up and I'm wondering what the wisdom of the group is about the absolute best piano action and sound in a digital keyboard....What if I said price is *somewhat* of an object? Yes, when it gets down to spending our own money, seldom is cost "never" an object. And as ElmerJFudd points out, I think one's appreciation of these top-of-the-line home digitals is greatly influenced by one's own history with acoustic pianos. If you have spent time practicing on great pianos, you're going to have more appreciation for the pricey models noted above. Cause there really is a difference in the experience - what you hear, and finger-to-ear connection, and such. Given that most digital slabs that mere mortals like us typically gig with are compromises (by definition), sort of reliable substitutes for the dreadful "house piano" in my thinking, these pricier "home digitals" with great actions are like proxies for real grand pianos. I don't think anyone plays even the top of the line home digitals and mistakes it for a well-maintained Steinway. But they also don't have to have it tuned and maintained regularly, and it gets one close enough to keep a bunch of cheddar in your pocket and not go spendy on the real McCoy. Like most things in this price range, you really want to spend some quality time demo'ing any of the models you're going to consider spending thousands on. And in my experience, the patient buyer can wait for a good sale as there appears to be more margin for a retailer to discount. Quote .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Lobo Posted August 20, 2020 Author Share Posted August 20, 2020 Thanks, guys. Your comments are very helpful. I think I should look into the Yamaha and Kawai a little more. Quote These are only my opinions, not supported by any actual knowledge, experience, or expertise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Thanks, guys. Your comments are very helpful. I think I should look into the Yamaha and Kawai a little more. Great. And if you don"t go out to try in shop (these two are often on showroom floors), many dealers offer 30-45 days to return. But if not satisfied you have to pay return shipping. Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doerfler Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 There's also the Casio Grand Hybrid line with the Bechstein action in them. played these at NAMM this past January. Were I to go in the direction of the OP this is where I would land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outkaster Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 CP88 Quote "Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello" noblevibes.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Muscara Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 There's also the Casio Grand Hybrid line with the Bechstein action in them. played these at NAMM this past January. Were I to go in the direction of the OP this is where I would land. I did as well. If I didn't already have an acoustic grand when the first gen of Grand Hybrid shipped, I probably would have bought one by now. I'd also have more space in my studio. Some of the tech of the Grand Hybrid trickled down into the PX-S series, which is what made them sound so good and realistic. Obviously the action is different though. Quote "I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck "The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kawai James Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 I'm obviously a little biased, but: - Money is no object: Kawai Novus NV5 or NV10 (okay, or AvantGrand...) - Money is sort of an object: Kawai CA99/CA79 - Slab type is preferred: Kawai MP11SE Cheers, James x Quote Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own. Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffincltnc Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 I like Nord Grand for what it is designed to do, but I have only briefly been hands on with the Kawai action. I considered buying one as a digital piano in the $3K-$4K range. The Kawai MP11SE probably has a better action and more weight but I do like the character of Nord pianos... not everybody does, but I like them. Quote Yamaha U1 Upright, Roland Fantom 8, Nord Stage 4 HA73, Nord Wave 2, Korg Nautilus 73, Viscount Legend Live, Lots of Mainstage/VST Libraries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluMunk Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Yamaha P-515 Kawai ES8 Those would be my picks in a digital slab piano with built in speakers in your price range. You can get them console style stand and pedals too. I'm in the market for a board for home practicing/rehearsing, and these are the two that I've been settled on for a while, but haven't been able to pull the trigger as I really want to try them in person, and that's tough in my rural area (doubly so during COVID). I'll also throw in the Kawai VPC1. By all accounts another excellent piano action. However, no speakers, and no onboard sounds; just a controller. Probably not right for your grandson, but might be right for you, depending on your preferences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 CP-88 mentioned above, also excellent action. No onboard speakers. Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delaware Dave Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 The Roland V-Piano, I really like how it sounds and how it plays but is ungodly expensive to purchase and is quite heavy (84 pounds). Quote 57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn Delaware Dave Exit93band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphollis Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 +1 on the Yamaha AvantGrand. My N3 is realistic enough that I often forget I'm playing a digital instrument. You did say "price no object" . Grand piano actions actions are always a matter of personal preference, but the N3 certainly expressive enough if a tad on the heavy side. The built-in amplification is an integral part of the experience, something you won't get with a slab. Quote Want to make your band better? Check out "A Guide To Starting (Or Improving!) Your Own Local Band" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Lobo Posted August 20, 2020 Author Share Posted August 20, 2020 Thanks all who have posted in this thread. Keep 'em coming if you have more to say. I'm getting edjumicated. Quote These are only my opinions, not supported by any actual knowledge, experience, or expertise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 I'm another big fan of the action and sound of the Kawai pianos...but man, those bad boys are heavy to lift. dB Quote ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Lobo Posted August 20, 2020 Author Share Posted August 20, 2020 The built-in amplification is an integral part of the experience ... Yes, this is another consideration. The high end digital pianos should have high quality built-in speakers and sound. I wonder what mid-range keyboards have the best piano action AND the best built-in amplification. Still researching ... I like this quest, but it's giving me too much GAS. Quote These are only my opinions, not supported by any actual knowledge, experience, or expertise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adan Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 If the problem is you need a digital piano for kids to practice on, buying them the digital piano a concert pianist would buy is seriously overengineering the solution. Maybe one of your grandkids will develop into a serious pianist over the next several years. But it's not like buying an acoustic instrument they can "grow into." While they're growing, the technology will be getting better. The sounds shouldn't matter much, but a very piano-like action under their fingers would be desireable. The P515 is an incredible bang for the buck and more than good enough for your purposes. It's your money, but I think spending more for something better is a waste. Buy the P515 and if you have money left over, throw a new bike into the deal. Quote Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro Home: Vintage Vibe 64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 For the Grandkids a Yamaha P125 would be a better buy than the Casio. It has a better key action and superior piano sounds. Quote Col Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Lobo Posted August 20, 2020 Author Share Posted August 20, 2020 If the problem is you need a digital piano for kids to practice on, buying them the digital piano a concert pianist would buy is seriously overengineering the solution.I agree. One of the things I learned here is that there ARE digital pianos that a concert pianist would buy. Yes, that's seriously overdoing it While they're growing, the technology will be getting better. Very valid point. The sounds shouldn't matter much, but a very piano-like action under their fingers would be desireable. Also very valid point. And they have access to a good acoustic piano so the piano action + headphone jack takes precedence over other features. The P515 is an incredible bang for the buck and more than good enough for your purposes. It's your money, but I think spending more for something better is a waste. Buy the P515 and if you have money left over, throw a new bike into the deal. Yes, thanks to this thread I've been looking at the P515. The older girl (12? 13?) is a genuine soccer star (state champ, high scorer) so I'd throw in soccer gear instead of a bike. Quote These are only my opinions, not supported by any actual knowledge, experience, or expertise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miden Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 not sure if it's been mentioned, I did a quick flick down the page - but the Roland V-Piano was a bit of a beast, discontinued now but perhaps good second hand units are about? Quote There is no luck - luck is simply the confluence of circumstance and co-incidence... Time is the final arbiter for all things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Tonewheel Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 I own a Yamaha Avant Grand N2 and really like it. I bought it because I wanted a real grand piano action to get back into classical repertoire. I have not been disappointed. The action is superb and the response can be adjusted, especially with the tactile response (vibrations), you really feel like your playing an acoustic. The built in speaker system sounds fantastic. Of course, it stays home. :-) The built in samples respond very well to a full dynamic range and can cover the range of expression required for classical music well. It also has MIDI out so if you want to control some other software package feel free. I've used it to trigger Spectrasonics Keyscapes with good results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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