I have a gig. What are best practices to stay healthy?

[Bob L]

I searched the forum for COVID and found one thread ( "the bookings are coming in" ) that talked about playing in this COVID 19 environment. I have an outdoor gig Friday with my quartet, and I am looking more for practical advice for lowering risks of getting sick (or having band members get sick). One band member (not me) brings the PA but we usually help set up. We will be spaced far apart and plan on doing common sense stuff like wearing mask when we aren't performing.

 

Maybe this is stupid, but since we don't have a sound crew I am wondering how those of you performing are dealing with stuff like this:

 

Handling cables during set up (wear gloves, hand sanitizer before/after)?

Reducing risk from the the venues patrons without being rude?

Two person stuff like putting speakers on poles?

Sharing PA set up/break down? I don't think it is fair to have the person who owns the PA be the only person to handle it.

 

I thought some of you who have been gigging already might provide some guidance. I am so happy to perform again, but aside from cancelling the gig what are practical things I can do and my band mates can do? As I always end my post ... if I failed to find a thread similar to this my apologies in advance.

[Song80s]

your band should hire someone to handle set up/PA, cables.

 

its worth it, to minimize exposure

[Bob L]

We can't afford to hire someone to handle sound. A band member owns the PA.

[Bif_]

Bob L,

 

None of my suggestions are gig-related, just following best practices for anyone venturing out in public.

 

Social distance as much as possible.

Wear a good mask at all times if possible.

Gloves may or may not help. Frequent hand washing is best. Sanitizing lotions are second best. I'd put gloves further down the list as they create a false sense of security and can create other problems if not properly used, removed, etc.

 

If people are singing around you, they place YOU at greater risk as singing creates smaller droplets that travel further and can more easily be inhaled. If you aren't reasonably certain that patrons will keep a safe distance you will be undertaking an additional risk.

 

All of this is about diminishing risk as much as possible. I traveled to Florida a few weeks ago. I knew there was risk by flying and greater statistical risk just by being there (as compared to my home in Indiana). We took many precautions, only went to a few restaurants, made sure there was no crowd, socially distanced on the beach, etc. We made the trip safely, but there was risk.

 

You are taking a risk but if you know what you're getting into, that's your call. Some things in all of this are beyond our control, mostly what other people are doing.

[timwat]

Not gigging again yet, but I was reminded last week by a very concerned ICU nurse (a student in a grad class I was teaching) that:

 

Social distancing discipline is more effective than mask wearing (which is still a good practice)

Frequent hand washing for 2 minutes is more effective than hand sanitizer (which is still a good second option)

Avoiding touching face, especially eyes, nose and mouth

Outdoors for airflow (way better than indoors)

 

I wonder if having a small fan at your feet pointed upwards will help to move air away from you. Maybe bring a small bottle of actual liquid soap to discreetly wash your hands after all manual activity. Is it too much to put a plexiglass pane in front of your rig somehow? Maybe that's overkill, I don't know.

 

Stay safe and healthy, Bob.

 

Tim

[Bob L]

Thanks for the suggestions. I hope you input helps others as they return to gigging. This gig is outdoors which is very good, and the owners of the venue couldn't be nicer people so I feel confident they have thought a lot of things through.

[Song80s]

your county health dept should be providing guidance and/or orders on how the venue proceeds

 

At least , thats the way it work in CA and other states.

[Stokely]

Disclaimer: I'm no expert, I just have been reading a lot on the subject at a couple science forums.

 

Dose (seems strongly to) matter. The dose would be a factor of amount + time. If I was playing a gig, it would have to be outdoors (check), I'd want to be in the back so that nobody else is singing in my direction, as singing sends a LOT of droplets out and pretty far. The wind direction matters. I wouldn't want anyone upwind of me and especially behind me if that's my "safe direction" I always have my fan with me in case it's hot, so I'd bring mine for sure and have it pointed from behind me toward the front. One of the reasons the outdoors is 19 times less dangerous (according to one study) is that air currents swirl all around and disperse the virus. People have caught this across rooms (WAY farther than 6 feet) because an AC vent was blowing a steady stream of air over across the room. You want swirls, provided that there can be dispersion and you aren't in a giant indoor pit of virus!

 

Being in the back protects (hopefully) from both the other band members and the public. If this was a gig where I was on the side and people could walk up to me--and we all know they do, I've had morons put their drink on my @#$# keyboard--I'd either come up with some barrier, move to another spot on the stage, or not do the gig, period. Between sets I'd spend in my car, rude as that might be to people there to see us potentially. Tough titties, I'd explain why to anyone who asks and that's that.

 

Now, that means I'm potentially spreading covid to those in front of me--but that's a risk I'm willing to take! Seriously, I haven't ventured into another building besides my house since mid-March so they have little to fear from me.

 

Those in my household have recently been tested and personally--I'd want the whole band to go do a rapid test if one is available. We have the molecular rapid tests that are quite accurate and take 30-45 minutes. Typically our setups involve a lot of squeezing past each other as we all set our stuff up and we all know how to connect our stuff to the mixer. Unless we got there early enough to do this one at a time, I'd want to know they are safe. I realize this is probably unrealistic to expect, but you never know--they might want to get tested and you can all feel better!

 

I would not worry as much about surfaces. As far as I know, not a single case of the millions in the world has been proven to come from surfaces. It doesn't hurt to be safe of course, but my PRIMARY focus would be on air droplets.

 

Don't forget the restroom. Unless the gig is short and you have a bladder of iron, or you bring a car container, you are going to be in what is likely the most unsafe room in the place. Most bars/restaurants as we all know can have jammed-in patrons and flushing toilets would be a worry along simply with people breathing in a small space. Droplets can linger in the air as well, depending again on the air currents and humidity (cool and dry is worse for us and better for the virus staying in play.)

[Bill H.]

 

Maybe this is stupid, but since we don't have a sound crew I am wondering how those of you performing are dealing with stuff like this:

 

Handling cables during set up (wear gloves, hand sanitizer before/after)?

I tried gloves for awhile, but it was just too much do deal with. I ended up clipping one of those kid's drink containers (the kind you buy at Walmart for a buck) to my belt and filling it with isopropyl alcohol. Mine has a clip ring and a sippy cup kind of top, which makes it easy to splash my hands with alcohol whenever I feel the need.

 

Reducing risk from the the venues patrons without being rude?

If it's too loud to hear them from 6 feet away, I hand them a clipboard and ask them to write down whatever they want to talk about.

 

Two person stuff like putting speakers on poles?

Instead of two people lifting the cab onto a pole --- set the cab on the floor, insert the pole, and prop it up by yourself. I do this all the time anyway.

 

Sharing PA set up/break down? I don't think it is fair to have the person who owns the PA be the only person to handle it.

Of course not, but it's still possible to maintain a pretty good physical distance if you just think about what you're doing in advance.

 

I'm also a firm believer in fans - and I think you mentioned that somewhere as well Bob L. I have a tower fan that was always a tad too noisy for the house set behind me, and it puts out a nice column of air that acts as a barrier between me and the patrons.

 

I did about 10 gigs like this, but ultimately pulled the plug when Covid positive people started showing up in local clubs. And that's really the ultimate safety precaution - to say no when things look like they're getting too risky. If you are outdoors you have an extra layer of protection that I did not have. Have fun with your gig, but keep both eyes open.

[David R]

While it is still decent weather, I'm turning down gigs that are indoors. It's not worth the risk to me.

 

I definitely agree â either designate someone to handle all of the cables/PA equipment, or bring as much of your own reinforcement as you need. My last gig was done via a cultural centre here, so all the wedges, DI boxes, and cables were set up before I got there. They also had enough staff to ensure a perimeter around where the band was set up. I did all of the soundcheck and rehearsal with my mask on, took my mask off for the gig but we were distanced and I was behind the vocalists.

[Al Quinn]

I"ve done a few outdoor gigs but passed on indoor gigs. Besides following the basic guidelines â try to maintain at least six feet from others, wear a mask when less than six feet from others, and wash hands often â I find that having a fan blowing at my face from a sensible direction makes a lot of sense while playing. The fan I use is small with a rechargeable battery and built in mounting clip. My wife bought it from Amazon for $16. Almost no impact to the schlep.

[SteinwayB]

I am an otolarygologist (ENT doc) and I have a suggestion for anyone who may be potentially exposed to COVID. My colleagues and I have been using dilute Betadine irrigations of the nasal passages. What we know: dilute Betadine (.3%) is completely safe to the mucous membranes of the nose and throat, and in vitro this solution is highly virucidal and the effect can last several hours. What we don't know: does it actually reduce risk of contracting COVID; there just is not enough data yet to show if it works. Here is the recipe: Neilmed sinus rinse bottle, 5% betadine, sterile saline. Mix 5cc of betadine with 60cc of sterile saline. GENTLY irrigate each nostril while standing over the sink and let it run out. You should get 1 small squeeze per side. It's OK and probably advantageous to swallow some; it is harmless. I see about 20 patients per day and my face is right in their face and obviously they don't wear a mask as I examine their nose and throat, thus I am in a high risk situation. Of course I wear appropriate PPE; I do this irrigation in the AM before patients, and after lunch.

[Stokely]

Very interesting. I did read an article a couple months ago about neti pots, and how using them at night to flush nasal passages could--could, mind you--prevent the virus from making its way to the lungs. The main premise there, according to the article, was that the virus would lodge in your nose, and then would go to the lungs later while you slept, so cleaning out the sinuses before going to bed could help.

 

 

Neti pots of course have been used forever and aren't dangerous. I don't recall if they mentioned using a particular solution, and don't remember any bits in the article about preventative effects.

 

NO IDEA if there is truth in this, can't recall if this was a study and if so, how "good" of a study it was. When something is feasible or plausible, doesn't necessarily make it true of course It's how we get fake news and anti-vaxxers etc.

 

Which reminds me of another good piece of advice--it's looking like your nose is far more likely a spot for the incoming virus to lodge than your mouth. At least according to one study I read. So if you see someone with a mask down under their nose, that still might be helpful for YOU as it's covering their mouth but it's not doing them much good.

[cphollis]

I am an otolarygologist (ENT doc) and I have a suggestion for anyone who may be potentially exposed to COVID. My colleagues and I have been using dilute Betadine irrigations of the nasal passages. What we know: dilute Betadine (.3%) is completely safe to the mucous membranes of the nose and throat, and in vitro this solution is highly virucidal and the effect can last several hours. What we don't know: does it actually reduce risk of contracting COVID; there just is not enough data yet to show if it works. Here is the recipe: Neilmed sinus rinse bottle, 5% betadine, sterile saline. Mix 5cc of betadine with 60cc of sterile saline. GENTLY irrigate each nostril while standing over the sink and let it run out. You should get 1 small squeeze per side. It's OK and probably advantageous to swallow some; it is harmless. I see about 20 patients per day and my face is right in their face and obviously they don't wear a mask as I examine their nose and throat, thus I am in a high risk situation. Of course I wear appropriate PPE; I do this irrigation in the AM before patients, and after lunch.

 

Very pragmatic solution when in unavoidable high-risk situations. Thanks!

[Adan]

I am an otolarygologist (ENT doc) and I have a suggestion for anyone who may be potentially exposed to COVID. My colleagues and I have been using dilute Betadine irrigations of the nasal passages. What we know: dilute Betadine (.3%) is completely safe to the mucous membranes of the nose and throat, and in vitro this solution is highly virucidal and the effect can last several hours. What we don't know: does it actually reduce risk of contracting COVID; there just is not enough data yet to show if it works. Here is the recipe: Neilmed sinus rinse bottle, 5% betadine, sterile saline. Mix 5cc of betadine with 60cc of sterile saline. GENTLY irrigate each nostril while standing over the sink and let it run out. You should get 1 small squeeze per side. It's OK and probably advantageous to swallow some; it is harmless. I see about 20 patients per day and my face is right in their face and obviously they don't wear a mask as I examine their nose and throat, thus I am in a high risk situation. Of course I wear appropriate PPE; I do this irrigation in the AM before patients, and after lunch.

 

I haven't done exactly this, but I know this sort of practice has some effect at preventing colds. I'll do something similar the moment I suspect I may have a cold virus. While it doesn't always work, the personal empiricle evidence leaves no doubt in my mind that it sometimes works. If it can prevent one type of airborne virus from taking hold, it's not unreasonable to think it might help prevent another. Most importantly, there is no downside risk, just a little annoying discomfort.

 

Would I do it twice a day every day? No. But I'd do it after a high risk situation.

[SteinwayB]

I'll just add a couple things: make sure you use sterile saline or boiled water with a little salt. I tried sterile water and it burned a lot. Using tap water (without boiling first) for this or Netti pot is dangerous, particularly in the South where Naegleria fowleri, a "brain eating amoeba" is a risk, although extremely rare (2 fatal cases reported). Finally, keep the bottle and nozzle clean; after irrigation I pour a little alcohol in, squirt it out, dump out the remainder, and let it air dry. You could also put water in it and microwave it but I suspect that will accelerate deterioration of the bottle.

[Chris Link]

I"m an anesthesiologist and get up close and personal with patients" airways, so I"ve been following all of this pretty closely.

 

I had not heard the Betadine nasal lavage idea before. It"s sounds like a good idea.

 

I"ve played three outdoor gigs (two more pending) and feel pretty comfortable with doing so. Little evidence of transmission outdoors. Unless someone sneezes on your stuff, transfer from cables, etc not likely an issue either.

 

I stay away from people and don"t mingle with the audience on breaks. Or with the twenty-something guitarist who"s been going out to bars, etc. I keep a cooler with my own beverages of choice off-stage. At my insistence, rehearsals have been outdoors. It turns out to be good marketing as the neighbors gather on their driveways and want to know where and when we"re playing.

 

Honestly, an outdoor gig is likely less risky than going to the grocery store.

 

My girlfriend (who sees patients in the hospital five days a week) got some respiratory symptoms and qualified for test (it was negative!), so I told the band I shouldn"t go out until her test came back. Another member had a similar exposure, so it ended up an acoustic set with the two guitar players for the last gig. This was also at a weekend lake community with a bunch of young folks where there had already been an outbreak after a Fourth of July party. I really was more than okay with staying home.

 

Ah well, three down and two to go! Stay safe out there.

[Stokely]

Again, please remember* that (unlike a grocery store run, most likely) you are quite likely to need to take a leak at least once at an outdoor gig. One place I have gigs at is quite safe in every way, load-ins, blocked off from patrons--but the bathroom is a nightmare. Tiny, indoors through a maze of tables and several tight hallways. I've mentioned it before, and not joking: I'd pee in a container in my car if I was to do that gig again right now.

 

I just figure it's not worth the risk and stress, plus it's more money for our drummer who is really hurting if they do a 3 or 4 piece (normally we are 5).

 

*not that people are likely to forget they need to pee but you never know

[Chris Link]

Let me put it this way...

 

I'm very comfortable playing an outdoor gig and keeping to myself as much as possible. A lot more so than attending an outdoor gig and even more so playing in a bar or club.

[Pigmeat]

I quit my band recently because they wanted to rehearse and shoot a video even though all of our gigs were cancelled this year. Too much risk for very little reward.

[Chris Link]

As I said, I had not run across the Betatine rinse but just saw this:

 

https://www.anesthesiologynews.com/Commentary/Article/08-20/Povidone-Iodine-as-a-Preprocedural-Nasal-and-Mouthrinse-Prophylaxis-for-COVID-19/59345?sub=17596B80505687508C4C7E4985D623B5249419058A9F4218BE5B6FC4D10247&enl=true&dgid=&utm_source=enl&utm_content=1&utm_campaign=20200824&utm_medium=title