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Hammond SKX


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Any opinions about this? Specifically, how does it stack up in sound, action and ergonomics to the Legend and Mojo?

 

I'm looking for a compact two-manual clonewheel and had pretty much decided on the Legend, but they never come up second hand and I'm baulking at paying the new price. A near-new SKX has come up though.

 

I'm attracted by the larger number of preset slots. The extra voices will potentially be useful, but they're not a dealbreaker. But the key thing is the core Hammond sound and feel.

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Just from what I've read, SKX should feel lighter than the Legend but heavier than the Mojo.

 

Sound is always the most subjective, but if you're willing to put it through a Ventilator, a lot of sonic advantages of any clone over another disappear. Beyond that, besides being subjective, there's also the issue that different people care about different things. e.g. C/V? Click? Leakage/crosstalk? Percussion? The differences in these kinds of things (which can not be addressed with a Vent or other external processing) can be crucial to some people and of minimal importance to others.

 

Just from looking at them, obviously, the SKX is not especially ergonomically faithful to the original, Hammond makes the XK5 for that. That said, control placement/size/shape aside, Hammond's legends bug me, e.g. the percussion and Leslie buttons. The text is essentially light gray on dark gray, and I find it can be hard to read.

 

Besides the extra sounds you mention, the SKX also has the best MIDI functionality of the bunch. I think it's also the lightest.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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It's hard for me to get excited about the sound of the SKX when the B3X software is so much better. I don't know the story behind the B3X carrying Hammond's corporate name, but it seems like a smart move for Hammond, along with auto-mapping to their hardware SK and XK boards. Does auto-mapping really give you an advantage given that B3X can midi learn from any controller? I don't know, and I don't know anyone who has used the auto-map function with an SK or XK.

 

I'm pretty sure that if I needed a 2-manual clone and could find an SKX at a reasonable price, I'd be quite happy using it with the B3X on my ipad.

 

The extra sounds on the SKX have never done anything for me sonically. But if you're using a 2-manual clone then you're probably making some compromises in other sounds one way or another. As Scott points out, the SKX is a very flexible controller, so pair it with something like Korg Module and you'd be doing better. Can you run B3X and Module at the same time? That might get tricky.

Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro

Home: Vintage Vibe 64

 

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I'm looking for a compact two-manual clonewheel and had pretty much decided on the Legend, but they never come up second hand and I'm baulking at paying the new price. A near-new SKX has come up though.

 

Confidence, PM me. If you are interested, I have a like new Legend Live which has never been gigged that I would be willing to let go.

Moe

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Just from what I've read, SKX should feel lighter than the Legend but heavier than the Mojo.

 

Sound is always the most subjective, but if you're willing to put it through a Ventilator, a lot of sonic advantages of any clone over another disappear. Beyond that, besides being subjective, there's also the issue that different people care about different things. e.g. C/V? Click? Leakage/crosstalk? Percussion? The differences in these kinds of things (which can not be addressed with a Vent or other external processing) can be crucial to some people and of minimal importance to others.

 

Just from looking at them, obviously, the SKX is not especially ergonomically faithful to the original, Hammond makes the XK5 for that. That said, control placement/size/shape aside, Hammond's legends bug me, e.g. the percussion and Leslie buttons. The text is essentially light gray on dark gray, and I find it can be hard to read.

 

Besides the extra sounds you mention, the SKX also has the best MIDI functionality of the bunch. I think it's also the lightest.

 

Thanks, that's helpful. I did once play one of the Hammond clones in a store but I can't remember which model it was. They also had a mojo. I liked the sound of both of them, but felt the experience of playing the mojo more immersive. Having said that, I think over time I'd appreciate the flexibility, MIDI spec. etc. of the Hammond.

 

I really don't think I have enough experience to have an opinion about C/V, click etc. I've only played a real Hammond a few times in my life and this will be my first clonewheel.

 

I'm glad you think it's the lightest, but I'm surprised you don't know for sure and can't quote its weight to the nearest gram. :laugh:

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I just got an SKX last week so I've got some fresh perspective. Wasn't able to try in the stores, back ordered it from Sweetwater while it was temporarily marked down low.

 

I gave serious consideration to the Crumar, but the reliability kinda scared me. My next idea was to buy a Midi Organ Controller to use with B3x. But I figured for the price of a dedicated midi organ controller, I'd be better off spending more on something that can make sound on it's own if needed. With that, I started looking for used SK2's... they weren't any cheaper than a new SkX was on sale. If not under the current pandemic situation, I would of actively sought out trying a Legend, or Mojo someplace. I didn't want to get another Nord.

 

 

Background: Been wanting a double manual for sometime for dedicated organ gigs and to work on my jazz organ chops. Normally I'm main pianist/MD-where I typically play a Nord on top of a piano slab. I've been doing more auxiliary 2nd keyboardist gigs where I have to cover organ, synth/orchestral stuff and someone else is playing piano. Theses gigs often provide real Hammond, and I'd bring my Nord stage compact with Mainstage to cover everything else. When they couldn't do real organ, I just did the Nord organ but really missed having the lower manual and additional drawbars. Plus I hate doing Organ splits on single keyboard.

 

I tried to create a 2 manual rig using my ancient Electro2 61 as a 2nd manual to control the Nord stage. The whole thing started to look like a big red contraption with too much to hook up and wasn't satisfying, or inviting to play. Because I do broadcast stuff, appearance was a consideration too. I didn't want to pay $500 for a shell, nor am I handy enough to build one.

 

I thought the SKX would be a good solution for organ centric gigs that needed just a handful of other sounds and provide that 2 manual console playing experience, and look. I got it knowing the additional sounds were supposedly weak (they are....). But also knew it had pretty good midi implementation for external stuff, as mentioned above. Truth also be told: I've actually never been a fan of Hammond Clonewheels either. I always thought they were shrill and thin. But I've heard enough guys like Jim Alfredson make them sound great. At one of the churches I work for, I had to use their Hammond XK3c (with Leslie or my Vent) for the last month. I've since warmed up to the Hammond clonewheel sound.

 

I'm very familiar with real Hammond layout and workflow of B3/s/A100s and my old M.. The SKX feels like a compact spinet to me. It's not as luxurious and spread out, but the layout feels very familiar. I agree about things being a bit hard to read. I do miss having preset keys. It's mainly all about the two manuals and drawbars for me. About 40 lbs btw - it weighs as much as my Yamaha slab piano, and as heavy as I want to carry.

 

As to the sound: the leslie is ok for practice, but for most gigs I'll borrow a 330 from my church, or use my vent. I'm still not 100% convinced I adore the SKX. But after some tweaking I really do like it for straight up organ. The chorus is more authentic than other clones I've heard. Only because I've programmed the heck out of it (and loaded with own samples) - my Nord would still be a better fit for gigs that need higher quality strings and such 50% of the time. But if I was doing a jazz combo, or bar gig doing rock covers I think the SKx is ideal. For Worship gigs hired to just do organ and some very light pads/rhodes, (and they can't provide organ) this will hopefully work as intended. I'll have to update in a few months after some real gigs. I got such a good deal on this, that even if I decide to sell it, I wouldn't take too much of a beating.

 

Bottom line, there are multiple factors to consider besides just sound. To me it's whether it feels and plays like an instrument. I would still love to check out the new Mojo at some point, but for now this will work.

 

 

BTW- I use the IK B3x constantly for studio stuff. Last time I used it on a gig (running under Mainstage and Nord control) I wasn't as happy as I was in the studio. On my Macbook air, It just didn't speak right, and had a hard time keeping up and fitting in the mix.. I'm thinking of grabbing the ipad version. Since it's easier to mate up to hammond stuff, it might be a more connected experience. Love to hear input from anyone else using it live and with Hammond as controller?

 

Best of luck! Cheers C

Chris Corso

www.chriscorso.org

Lots of stuff.

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You're too kind. Thank you!! Back at you- loved hearing the Winey Winey reggae vibes coming from sunny island of....Rochester! Great stuff that put a smile on face with infectious groove. Yes, I'm coming around to the Hammond clone sound and liking it more.

Chris Corso

www.chriscorso.org

Lots of stuff.

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I've been an SK2 owner since day 1.

 

It's excellent in every way - lighter, cheaper but sounds just like a B3.

Keith Emerson would have had a field day picking it up over his head and dropping it on a knife.

 

As I play in a Genesis tribute band I have OCD about the Hammond sound I want.

I started out with sound modules like EMU and Roland and then moved to the XK3C, which was head and shoulders better than anything at the time.

I still have it, it still sounds great and with the lower keyboard is all you need for a great Hammond sound.

The SK2 is an improvement in sound terms and of course in portability. I already need to have a weighted board (Kronos 73) for pianos and 61 note (Kronos 61) for synth.

The advantage of the midi capability on the SK2 means I can also play pianos/Mellotrons etc on the lower keyboard if necessary.

I looked at all the alternatives - Nord, Crumar etc but they could not compete with the SK2 for being able to tweak the sounds to your liking.

I use it through a Vent, which is very good though not as good as my Motion Sound Pro 145.

 

As an acid test, we had Josh Philips of Procol Harum at our show last year - he is a Hammond afficiondo - he said he loved the sound of the SK2 and had no idea it was a "clone".

He said every sound was totally authentic - made my year.

 

I've just bought an SKX Black Edition and am in the process of transferring over my patches, as Hammond in their wisdom didn't provide a transfer method.

So far it sounds a little warmer than the SK2 and the layout is different but makes more sense for a live performance.

I like that there are more favourite sounds available too.

 

I don't trust software synths any more than I trust any other PC not to crash, certainly wouldn't take a B3 clone in software, give me hardware anytime.

My SK2 has never even blipped live after hundreds of gigs.

Get an SKX.

Yamaha CP70B;Roland XP30/AXSynth/Fantom/FA76/XR;Hammond XK3C SK2; Korg Kronos 73;ProSoloist Rack+; ARP ProSoloist; Mellotron M4000D; GEM Promega2; Hohner Pianet N, Roland V-Grand,Voyager XL, RMI
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I looked at all the alternatives - Nord, Crumar etc but they could not compete with the SK2 for being able to tweak the sounds to your liking.

Are you sure about that? The Crumar is enormously tweakable. I think its "drawbar trimming" parameter is essentially the same as Hammond's "custom tonewheel set" functionality, and it has more additional controllable parameters.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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The SKX is more of an all-in-one gigging instrument that contains a collection of bread-and-butter piano, electric piano, clav, Vox/Farfisa type sounds and pipe organ type of stuff in the packaging of a dual manual.

 

The Legend Live and Mojo Classic only generate Hammond organ sounds.

 

Legend Live is the only one with a full drawbar set if that is important to you.

Yamaha U1 Upright, Roland Fantom 8, Nord Stage 4 HA73, Nord Wave 2, Korg Nautilus 73, Viscount Legend Live, Lots of Mainstage/VST Libraries

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I've had one for a couple of years. It could be a good candidate for a longer treatment in the MPN GearLab, but here's a quick take.

 

Action: Improved over SK2 but not nearly as nice as an XK5. For organ, I still prefer it to a Nord clonehweel.

 

Organ Sound: Drawbar for drawbar, I think the sound is as authentic as anything I've heard, and may even have an edge. The ability to load different organ models with different behavior â a virtual tonewheel at a time â is very cool if you want to dive that deep. IIRC guys like Alfredson have, though that may have been on the SK2. The vibrato/chorus is dead-on. For playing through a real Leslie or dedicated sim like a Ventilator, it blows me away.

 

Leslie Simulation: Good but not great, as has always been the case with digital Hammond portables. (I'll defer to HUSA here and not call them clones.) It is better than it's ever been, and when I combine it with, say, C3 chorus, I get the depth and sense of motion I'm looking for at the gig. Everyone would have been raving about it in, like, 2003. But even going through a Ventilator I is an upgrade. For comparison, I also have an XK-3C system and a Studiologic Numa Organ I. I prefer the SKX over the XK-3C, but the Numa over the SK-X for rotary sim.

 

Non-Organ Sounds: I find quite a few of the EPs and synths quite serviceable. Acoustic pianos are pretty one-dimensional, but in a lot of rock and pop and soul gig situations where these sounds are going to be in a mix, they can certainly be "good enough" that if you only want to carry one keyboard, they're worth the benefit of the doubt.

 

One thing I liked and used a lot more than I expected on gigs (back when we had gigs) was the ability to play organ on one manual and other sounds on the other. The handle built into the rear panel makes carrying it under one arm easier than expected. It's not featherweight, but it's balanced, and that makes a difference.

 

Y'all have got me wanting to fire the thing up now.

Stephen Fortner

Principal, Fortner Media

Former Editor in Chief, Keyboard Magazine

Digital Piano Consultant, Piano Buyer Magazine

 

Industry affiliations: Antares, Arturia, Giles Communications, MS Media, Polyverse

 

 

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I looked at all the alternatives - Nord, Crumar etc but they could not compete with the SK2 for being able to tweak the sounds to your liking.

Are you sure about that? The Crumar is enormously tweakable. I think its "drawbar trimming" parameter is essentially the same as Hammond's "custom tonewheel set" functionality, and it has more additional controllable parameters.

I looked and the Hammond SK2 was a much better all round option.

Crumar is a bit player compared to Hammond in the UK - Hammond aren't that well represented and don't return support calls, so no brainer for m

Yamaha CP70B;Roland XP30/AXSynth/Fantom/FA76/XR;Hammond XK3C SK2; Korg Kronos 73;ProSoloist Rack+; ARP ProSoloist; Mellotron M4000D; GEM Promega2; Hohner Pianet N, Roland V-Grand,Voyager XL, RMI
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Thanks a lot everyone. The SKX I was looking at has gone now - auction finished earlier, they must have sold it elsewhere or something. But this is great food for thought.

 

Weighing up SKX vs Legend Live, my current thoughts are:

 

- Both have very highly rated core Hammond sound, C/V etc. that will be easily beyond my level of knowledge and experience to judge the finer points of anyway.

 

- SKX has more advanced MIDI spec, but I'm not sure how much that actually means in practice. More presets, which would be useful. Apart from that, given that the Legend transmits everything (note on/off, panel controls etc.) over MIDI anyway, so I could use it as a controller for soft synths in the studio or external sounds at a gig, what else would I want it to do? What exactly would the SKX do better here?

 

- Legend looks and feels more like a Hammond

 

- Legend has four sets of drawbars to SKX's two.

 

- Similar weight. SKX is slightly more compact (which could actually be useful).

 

- SKX has extra non-organ sounds, but users seem to describe these as "OK" or "serviceable" at best, not as anything you'd actually go out of your way to have. I wonder whether I'd be better off just accepting that it has its own internal organ sounds, and then for other sounds I use it as a MIDI controller and get those sounds from my modules.

 

- So far fairly even, with the Legend possibly slightly ahead on core factors and the SKX on additional ones. But the SKX is considerably more expensive, and really more than I want to pay new (while I could JUST see myself pulling the trigger on a new Legend, just to get this all wrapped up). OTOH SKXs do come up second hand in the UK where I am. This was the second one I'd seen in the last few months, and both of them were about the price of a new Legend (but then I wouldn't be getting any warranty). I've never once seen a second hand Legend Live in the UK.

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I looked at all the alternatives - Nord, Crumar etc but they could not compete with the SK2 for being able to tweak the sounds to your liking.

Are you sure about that? The Crumar is enormously tweakable. I think its "drawbar trimming" parameter is essentially the same as Hammond's "custom tonewheel set" functionality, and it has more additional controllable parameters.

I looked and the Hammond SK2 was a much better all round option.

I don't doubt that the SK2/SKX can be a better all round option, I was only surprised that they would be found to be more tweakable.

 

- SKX has more advanced MIDI spec, but I'm not sure how much that actually means in practice. More presets, which would be useful. Apart from that, given that the Legend transmits everything (note on/off, panel controls etc.) over MIDI anyway, so I could use it as a controller for soft synths in the studio or external sounds at a gig, what else would I want it to do? What exactly would the SKX do better here?

The SKX supports multiple MIDI zones. So among your 100 user presets, you can include ones that split/layer/manual-assign combinations of internal and specified external sounds. You might have a preset call up an organ on the top manual and a patch from an app running on an attached iPad on the lower manual, while the next preset splits two iPad sounds on the top manual while the lower manual has a 3rd iPad sound layered with an internal Hammond sound... whatever combinations you want, instantly available. And because the zones include the ability to send MIDI Program Changes, the presets not only assign the iPad apps' sounds where you want them, but also call up the specific iPad sound you want for each part without your having to go into the apps to change them from strings to brass or whatever.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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"I don't doubt that the SK2/SKX can be a better all round option, I was only surprised that they would be found to be more tweakable."

 

For me the simple answer is I don't want to get a PC out to tweak the sound in the middle of a gig!

I think the Crumar was most tweakabke but even if the Crumar could be tweaked to the same level that is the price you pay.

 

You're right about the MIDI spec and the Hammond does allow me to run my external synths, which is important to me.

I also think the comments of the great Jim Alfredson shouldn't be ignored either..........

 

"Posted 31 Jan 2017

 

As you may have gathered asking this question in other forums / FB posts, it's a loaded question that contains a lot of emotional reactions, bias, and of course subjectivity. My own biases are towards Hammond Suzuki, since I'm an artist with them but I will preface that by saying that I approached them, not the other way around. And as of this writing, they have not given me any digital organ for free; I paid for my XK System that I used with organissimo and others from 2008 to 2012 and I paid for my SK2 that I use now, albeit a discounted price.

 

With that out of the way, I have played all the models you're considering with the exception of the KeyB Legend.

 

I currently have a student that owns a Mojo, so I play it several times a month during our lessons. Before I give my impressions, note that I have owned and used the VB3 software for going on 10 years. I still use it in some of my work today though usually it gets replaced by either a real tonewheel console or the Hammond SK1 / XK1c.

 

Concerning the Mojo, the short version is that I am not impressed by it. I think it sounds overly processed, the bass is rather flabby and ill-defined, and it has a strange latency that I can't believe other Mojo users don't notice. I honestly do not understand why it is as venerated as it is among organ enthusiasts. When I play it, I feel like I'm playing a synthesizer's idea of what a Hammond should sound like. I don't know if that makes sense. I think the chorus/vibrato is very good, the percussion is good, and the Leslie sim is good, but the overall tone and especially the latency or maybe better put the feeling of disconnect between my fingers and the sound really bothers me.

 

I will say this: Whenever I use VB3 to demo a song, when I replace it with either the real deal or the SK / XK1c, the replacement fits so much better in the mix.

 

The XK5 is a different beast altogether. It is way beyond the XK3c, which is a great board. If you are an organist, if you have any familiarity with the real console tonewheel Hammonds and how they feel, then you will understand why the multi-contact system in the XK5 is so important. If you've never played a real Hammond, then you might not understand.

 

I really think the XK5 is the best Hammond emulation on the market. But yes, it's expensive. And big.

 

The KeyB Legend sounds really nice but I think those two videos from NAMM that show Cory Henry playing both the XK5 and the KeyB Legend speak volumes. The Hammond responds like a Hammond should and you can hear it in his playing and how he plays it. The KeyB sounds nice but it doesn't respond like a real tonewheel organ and for guys like Cory that literally grew up at the console, that's a big deal. Playing a clonewheel changes the way you play. It's the same for an acoustic piano vs a digital piano. You have to play a digital piano differently than a real acoustic. Same for a clavinet. It's REALLY easy to emulate the sound of a clavinet yet nothing emulates the actual feel of playing one. And once you play a real one, you understand why it is played the way it is; why Stevie Wonder came up with those funky clavinet lines on Superstition and other tunes. The actual feel of the keyboard makes you play a certain way.

 

I'm still happy with my SK2. It sounds great. The XK5 is far superior though and there are moments in playing the SK2 where I try to pull off a technique that would sound so great on a real Hammond or on the XK5 and it just doesn't work. Case in point is this video. The sound, I think you'll agree, is killer. But dig when I do the glissando up to the high C during my solo at about 2:14 or so, it just doesn't sound authentic. This is because of how the SK2 and every other clone except the XK5 triggers the notes. On a real Hammond, doing a fast glissando like that would mean that not all the contacts under the keys would necessarily close nor would they close at the same time, making the sound almost like a 'wah wah' effect as you glide up. In other words, it would be more organic, less perfect, less stiff. "

Yamaha CP70B;Roland XP30/AXSynth/Fantom/FA76/XR;Hammond XK3C SK2; Korg Kronos 73;ProSoloist Rack+; ARP ProSoloist; Mellotron M4000D; GEM Promega2; Hohner Pianet N, Roland V-Grand,Voyager XL, RMI
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For me the simple answer is I don't want to get a PC out to tweak the sound in the middle of a gig!

I think the Crumar was most tweakabke but even if the Crumar could be tweaked to the same level that is the price you pay.

All good points, from both you and Jim. But for the most part, Mojo organ parameters you need the wifi editor to tweak are not ones you'd be changing mid-gig. Things like the drawbar trimming are not for at-gig manipulation. But if you do want a live knob for amounts of key click, leakage, or crosstalk, or how long "long" percussion should be, whatever, you could get it by plugging in something like a Korg NanoKontrol (because all those editable parameters have assignable MIDI CCs). It's not as nice as a built-in front panel knob, but the SK series don't have front panel controls for these things either (though yes some could be done through menu-diving... but I don't really see myself doing that kind of menu-diving at a gig either).

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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For me the simple answer is I don't want to get a PC out to tweak the sound in the middle of a gig!

I think the Crumar was most tweakabke but even if the Crumar could be tweaked to the same level that is the price you pay.

All good points, from both you and Jim. But for the most part, Mojo organ parameters you need the wifi editor to tweak are not ones you'd be changing mid-gig. Things like the drawbar trimming are not for at-gig manipulation. But if you do want a live knob for amounts of key click, leakage, or crosstalk, or how long "long" percussion should be, whatever, you could get it by plugging in something like a Korg NanoKontrol (because all those editable parameters have assignable MIDI CCs). It's not as nice as a built-in front panel knob, but the SK series don't have front panel controls for these things either (though yes some could be done through menu-diving... but I don't really see myself doing that kind of menu-diving at a gig either).

Horses for courses. I would just rather have access, albeit through menus, to everything all the time.

Yamaha CP70B;Roland XP30/AXSynth/Fantom/FA76/XR;Hammond XK3C SK2; Korg Kronos 73;ProSoloist Rack+; ARP ProSoloist; Mellotron M4000D; GEM Promega2; Hohner Pianet N, Roland V-Grand,Voyager XL, RMI
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