Jump to content


Please note: You can easily log in to MPN using your Facebook account!

The Rack Thread - Who, What, Why?


Recommended Posts

Tech 21 makes great stuff, Kuru. Let us know how it works out for you. As for other recommendations, there are a gazillion "channel strips" out there, and the tone you want is a large part of that so it's hard to make a recommendation based on features alone.

 

For example, my favorite channel strip rack unit of all time is the Grace Design m103, but it's sure as heck not gonna give you the tone of the Radius!

Dr. Mike Metlay (PhD in nuclear physics, golly gosh) :D

Musician, Author, Editor, Educator, Impresario, Online Radio Guy, Cut-Rate Polymath, and Kindly Pedant

Editor-in-Chief, Bjooks ~ Author of SYNTH GEMS 1

 

clicky!:  more about me ~ my radio station (and my fam) ~ my local tribe ~ my day job ~ my bookmy music

Link to comment
Share on other sites



  • Replies 94
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Tech 21 makes great stuff, Kuru. Let us know how it works out for you. As for other recommendations, there are a gazillion "channel strips" out there, and the tone you want is a large part of that so it's hard to make a recommendation based on features alone.

 

For example, my favorite channel strip rack unit of all time is the Grace Design m103, but it's sure as heck not gonna give you the tone of the Radius!

 

Or the noise, or the scratchy pots!!! Grace is beautiful stuff, a friend has some. To me it sounds realer than real, which is nice.

 

The Radius is not a true tube sound, more "tubish" - I think you need both a tube and a transformer coupled in some way in the audio path.

 

Or figure out a way to get that sound. My Tech 21 Tri-AC has been a go-to for guitar and bass sounds for a long time, I can always find something great on there. I am a huge fan of the Peavey Vypyr VIP 3 as well. If you take the time to learn how to dial it, there's not much better out there that I've heard (previous owner of Red Plate Blues Machine, Allen Accomplice and 9 different Mesa amps right here, plus a variety of vintage classics including 50's Fender Tweeds).

 

Hartley Peavey wrote a series of "white papers" on various topics, Chapter 3 on TransTube is interesting.

https://peavey.com/content--name-Whitepapers

 

I think it is his greatest contribution to the music world, I've played all 3 iterations of TransTube and version 3 is incredibly good. I wish he still made channel strips!!!!!

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

The Sansamp Bass DI V2 is on it's way.

 

I decided to try running my Focusrite and Presonus rigs into the TRS line ins on the Quantum. I made 2 short XLR to TRS cables for the Focusrite and found a short TRS to TRS for the Presonus. I tested everything, it's all working fine.

There was so much gain availble by running them as mic pre preamps that I wasn't really getting the character sound of either unit so I'll try this for now.

 

Somebody else owns the Radius 40, I won't miss it at all.

Eventually I'll probably get another channel strip but I'm not in a hurry.

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

SansAmp Bass Driver is a keeper. The bass tones alone make it an essential part of my rig. It has other tricks available, more on that soon enough.

 

Meanwhile, I've got another Presonus Eureka channel strip on the way. If you shop carefully the bang for the buck on those is pretty high, bearing in mind I'm in the "well under $300 delivered" category here.

I plan on dedicating the EQ and compressor on one of them to my own vocals. The other can be an all-rounder, will probably be used to get the kick drum sound I want.

 

Either can be used as a mic pre just by turning off the EQ/compressor on the front panel. They do deliver a solid 48 volts, mics like that. Pretty easy to match meters on the DAW for stereo mic setups. I don't have a pair of anything anyway.

 

I'll still have one space left to fill but there is no hurry.

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My bass gear is racked, and my recording stuff is all in the box, but, I'm reading along. ;)

 

Enjoying this... please keep updating us on your progress!

 

Will do, thanks for checking in!! Sometimes I wonder if I anybody is listening.

It is going well and I am excited to have it completed.

 

SO MUCH EASIER to not have to snake in behind the rack with a flashlight to plug a cord in!!!!

 

I do these things to make life easier for my Artist (me). The less the Engineer (me) has to putz around, the easier it is to be creative. Cheers, Kuru

 

I'm a lot more like I am now than I was when I got here.

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My bass gear is racked, and my recording stuff is all in the box, but, I'm reading along. ;)

 

It's good to know others are reading all this stuff.

Would love to see everybody's gear too and especially postings with discussion of obstacles and how they were overcome.

 

That's a great way for all of us to learn new things and improve our own gear.

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

It's good to know others are reading all this stuff.

Would love to see everybody's gear too and especially postings with discussion of obstacles and how they were overcome.

 

I'd like to see more robust connectors to replace some of those located on the back of the device (and hence the rack). I have an interface with a USB-A connector that fits a little loosely and every now and then it works loose enough so that I have to rach back there, unplug, and re-plug it in order to get the interface working right again.

 

I had the same thought about the Firewire connector, but that faded into the sunset before anyone could come up with a locking version. Actually, Neutrik did come up with a connector in their EtherCon series - that's an XLR connector with a Cat5 plug and socket in a pair of shells. They made a Firewire cable plug like this but never made the companion chassis connector.

 

Fortunately a few companies are now using some sort of locking power connector. Those barrel connectors are too easy to pull out when someone trips on the cable, as can happen too easily on a remote gig.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I'd like to see more robust connectors to replace some of those located on the back of the device (and hence the rack). I have an interface with a USB-A connector that fits a little loosely and every now and then it works loose enough so that I have to rach back there, unplug, and re-plug it in order to get the interface working right again.

 

I had the same thought about the Firewire connector, but that faded into the sunset before anyone could come up with a locking version. Actually, Neutrik did come up with a connector in their EtherCon series - that's an XLR connector with a Cat5 plug and socket in a pair of shells. They made a Firewire cable plug like this but never made the companion chassis connector.

 

Fortunately a few companies are now using some sort of locking power connector. Those barrel connectors are too easy to pull out when someone trips on the cable, as can happen too easily on a remote gig.

 

I've got everything secured inside the rack, possible exception being the Thunderbolt 2 connectors.

I really like the connector for the power supply on my 2014 MacBook Pro, it's one of those magnetic ones. It stays firmly in place but will pop free without damage to the cable or the laptop.

Computer connectors should all be like that, simple and effective.

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

I did get the Tech 21, it's an awesome tool for all sorts of things. I've got the bass tone I want now and am experimenting with other instruments and vocals.

I also found a pristine Presonus Eureka with the original box for around $200, hard to pass up that much bang for the buck.

 

Just put it in the rack and tested it, works perfectly. No scratchy pots, 48v works, meter works, it's a keeper.

 

1 rack space left. I looked at multi-effects units but in my budget range (low) I don't think they can compete with plugins for sounds, versatility or bang for the buck. And I already have some nice plugins.

So maybe it just stays empty, at least for now.

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I also found a pristine Presonus Eureka with the original box for around $200, hard to pass up that much bang for the buck.

 

1 rack space left. . . . . So maybe it just stays empty, at least for now.

 

You certainly find some good bargains. Save that empty rack space for when you get something in there with tubes or another heat generator and give it some breathing room.

 

 

16-966_01.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I also found a pristine Presonus Eureka with the original box for around $200, hard to pass up that much bang for the buck.

 

1 rack space left. . . . . So maybe it just stays empty, at least for now.

 

You certainly find some good bargains. Save that empty rack space for when you get something in there with tubes or another heat generator and give it some breathing room.

 

 

16-966_01.jpg

 

That's a cool widget. The HHB Radius 40 I just passed along was a "tube" unit with 3 12AX7s in it. Starved plate design, didn't sound any more "tube" than going straight into my interface. I did like the EQ but the scratchy pots and clicky switches bugged the crap out of me. Looking inside, the pot lugs did not provide viable access for cleaning/descratching the pots, short of tossing it into a vat of pot cleaner/lube. There were too many of them to want to replace them all, especially considering the noise floor and relatively mediocre overall sounds. Tube rolling didn't help much either- I do have a pretty nice stash here. The compressor was too noisy to consider using, the Eureka compressor is very quiet by comparison and so is the FMR RNC I have running in the insert loop of the Focusrite ISA One.

 

If I get anything with tubes in it again, it will have to be quite a few steps up the quality ladder. Not in the budget right now, who knows what the world with present to me later?

 

Persistence is key to finding deals. The Eureka was posted on eBay and I snagged it before anybody else could get it. The seller had great feedback, the photos showed a clean unit with no "rack rash" of any kind and the price was right so I grabbed it. The Eureka is certainly not the best channel strip on the market but it is currently just about the best thing you'll find in that price range by a good margin. The insert is essential to my evil plan.

 

Having switchable compression and EQ (3 band true parametric) is nice and the noise floor is very low, almost inaudible. I fired it up last night, it appears to be fully functional without issues.

 

https://www.presonus.com/products/Eureka/tech-specs

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

If I get anything with tubes in it again, it will have to be quite a few steps up the quality ladder. Not in the budget right now, who knows what the world with present to me later?

 

Quoting myself for irony. That didn't take long. An ebayer with great feedback posted a Blue Robbie tube mic pre for $340. I tried to ignore it but then I started reading reviews and realized:

 

A: this is quite a bargain for an all discrete component hybrid tube/solid state mic pre with great specs.

B. It is sort of a goofy looking contraption with an unwieldy size and shape - but - it would fit nicely next to my Focusrite ISA One. The goofball factor is probably why it was still there this morning when I pulled the trigger. New, these are a custom order now and will set you back over $1,200.

C. One reviewer pointed out that it is very easy to "ride the fader" on this unit. Currently working on a project and the vocalist has a huge dynamic range. She'll sing softly and sweetly and suddenly the song will bring out this huge, glorious voice that is pretty loud. I know the songs, she is very consistent and is serving them well. With a single gain knob the Robbie is set up better to turn up the low parts and ease back on the loud parts than anything else I currently own. The other thing I like about it is that it is very easy to change the tube. The cover on the front panel unscrews, super easy. I do regret now selling the Siemens E88CC with gold pins that I had laying around!!!!

I'l have to get another one eventually...

 

I've been pondering using the last open rack space to build a more complete patch bay with all inserts, inputs and a few outputs integrated into one project box. With the right box there should be room to put the RNC and the Cloudlifter in the same rack. That will leave enough space to put the Robbie down below.

 

I suppose this is sort of the announcement of a new rabbit hole. I'm up to it, every time I make changes it is based on the experience of using the current setup and so far I've really benefitted from the improvements.

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

More changes.

Now that I have 2 Presonus Eureka channel strips racked up, I've got 2 modern VCA compressors I can use when I want something "transparent" to smooth out the dynamics in a subtle way.

I had an FMR RNC hooked up in the effects loop of the Focusrite ISA One but I never used it. As near as I can tell, the RNC is a "linked pair" with no way to change that setting. There are two channels, if you only use one channel you have to use channel A - channel B won't work on it's own. That means one channel just sits and does nothing. It's a great compressor but the Presonus compressors work just as well for my purposes.

 

While surfing eBay, I saw an ART Levelar, a "Vactrol" compressor. One of the many small "tube" widgets that ART has issued over the decades. Yes, I get that the ART stuff is for the most part scorned and there is a reason for that. I had one of their small preamps, same form factor and was not thrilled with it.

 

For whatever reason, I surfed some reviews on the Levelar. Hmmm... Tape Op guy likes it a lot for what it does. Some Gearslutz think it's cool. The Home Recording forum had praise for it from end users and a guy from Canada chimed in that he modded them and they stood up well against his own 1176 and some other fancy vintage goodies. $36 delivered, I can always return it, might as well try one.

 

Once I established that it was working, I swapped out the tube, put in a Tesla E83CC gold pin. I didn't really hear a notable difference, this is a starved plate circuit and they are using the tube for something but I'm not sure what.

The Levelar uses Optical compression, which is quite different from VCA compression (which is what most cheap boxes use. The Levelar is more of a Limiter than a Compressor, it lowers the volume of the louder parts of the signal rather than increasing the volume of the quieter parts.

 

It is not transparent, it can and will "smash" things if that's what you want. It has a sound. With it plugged into the effects loop of the Robbie mic pre, it brought down the peaks of a singer I was tracking. The results were good. The noise floor of the Levelar is much lower than I would have suspected, noise really was not a problem at all. Later I switched to the DI in the Robbie and recorded a Nashville Tuned solidbody guitar with it set to smash it. That was a gorgeous, chimey simmer tone. For me, very usable sound, classic over-compressed guitar. Not for everything and not for everybody but I like it.

 

Another one came up cheap, seller has stellar feedback, I snagged it. Will be here by the 20th. I will probably keep them hooked up to the inserts on the ISA One and the Robbie, a variety of flavors.

 

Sadly, also not really rack mountable. Yet another reason why having a larger patch bay with insert points for externals would be a great feature.

 

I also recently got the Tech 21 Sansamp Bass Drive DI and Para Drive DI, those are great tools and again, not rack mountable in the usual sense and capable of some interesting configurations. I'm working on a review for those, I need to do some testing on an unusual way I've come up with to use them. More flavors!!! Lat but not least, I've found the EMG BTC (Bass Treble Control) that I mounted in a box and powered up with 2 9v batteries to be very useful for running into a DI.

 

I guess widgets and racks are like coat hangers, paper clips and pens - they self-propagate so they don't get lonely!!!!

One possibility that occurred to me would be to find a shallow 6 space rack case and mount the two Levelars and 2 Sansamps face forward in the rack. I'll have to do some measuring, would be a tight squeeze if it can be done.

There should be room for a patch bay on the front with all connections. That could sit on top of the current rack and it would be easy to patch everything up on the fly.

 

Ugh. Insane? I can only plead guilty and beg for mercy...

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've put the FMR RNC up for sale. It sounds similar to the compressors in my Presonus Eureka channel strips, at least for what I would use it for.

No personality, that's why people use them - transparent on the cheap. I've got two, dual mono instead of linked stereo (which is limiting as well as welcome - depending).

 

I'll probably wish I hadn't at some point, so it goes.

 

I've also added a pair of ART Levelar widgets. The dual rackmount version is too spendy, you can pick these off cheap if you are patient.

They are not transparent at all, they crush things. Really much better than one would expect, if you are looking for an unreal sound for a particular instrument, part or purpose. The noise floor is very low, that is a huge feature.

I'll probably have to add another rack to mount them in any presentable fashion. I have a pair of Tech 21 DI's that will require similar treatment.

 

The evolution is endless!!!!

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Levelar uses Optical compression, which is quite different from VCA compression (which is what most cheap boxes use. The Levelar is more of a Limiter than a Compressor, it lowers the volume of the louder parts of the signal rather than increasing the volume of the quieter parts.

 

All compressors and limiters lower the volume of louder (above the threshold setting) parts. The volume of the quieter parts only gets increased when you turn up the output level after sitting on the loud parts. There have been a few "one knob" compressors that automatically increase the output level setting by the same number of dB as it's being reduced so that the low level sounds are automagically boosted. But really, they all work the same way.

 

The difference between a Vactrol and a VCA is in the time response of the output when the gain control goes into action. This is where we get the "hard knee" and "soft knee" as well as the characteristic sound of the famous limiters and compressors.

 

Sadly, also not really rack mountable. Yet another reason why having a larger patch bay with insert points for externals would be a great feature.

 

Anything is rack mountable if you have a shelf. New rack shelves are pricey, but you're good at finding deals. I've made a few out of plywood and aluminum angle. You need a rack that has solid sides that you can drill through to attach the angle, but $10 worth of material from Home Depot will probably set you up if you can't find a suitable piece of wood in your junk pile.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Levelar uses Optical compression, which is quite different from VCA compression (which is what most cheap boxes use. The Levelar is more of a Limiter than a Compressor, it lowers the volume of the louder parts of the signal rather than increasing the volume of the quieter parts.

 

All compressors and limiters lower the volume of louder (above the threshold setting) parts. The volume of the quieter parts only gets increased when you turn up the output level after sitting on the loud parts. There have been a few "one knob" compressors that automatically increase the output level setting by the same number of dB as it's being reduced so that the low level sounds are automagically boosted. But really, they all work the same way.

 

The difference between a Vactrol and a VCA is in the time response of the output when the gain control goes into action. This is where we get the "hard knee" and "soft knee" as well as the characteristic sound of the famous limiters and compressors.

 

Sadly, also not really rack mountable. Yet another reason why having a larger patch bay with insert points for externals would be a great feature.

 

Anything is rack mountable if you have a shelf. New rack shelves are pricey, but you're good at finding deals. I've made a few out of plywood and aluminum angle. You need a rack that has solid sides that you can drill through to attach the angle, but $10 worth of material from Home Depot will probably set you up if you can't find a suitable piece of wood in your junk pile.

 

Essentially you are saying it is the attack time and the slope of that?

Makes sense. It would make sense that a VCA could probably be configured to sound any number of ways but some compressors aren't and won't really do the same sort of thing as the ART does.

The compressor in the Eureka has a Soft setting but it doesn't seem to do much that is audible. I get the purpose of a less obvious compression, handy for taming a source on input and recording.

The isolation box I cobbled up makes it possible to back off the mic more which is another way to soften the peaks a bit.

 

A rack drawer could work. I'd need another rack, my widget stash mostly taller than a single rack space, which is all the current rack has available. A patch bay would still be handy for changing things around.

Another possibility is one of those racks that mounts a mixer on top, that space could be used for widget mounting instead and then route all connections to a patch bay.

 

So, you've got me thinking - which is good!

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Other factors are the quality of the detector and the control law between detector and control element (optical, VCA, FET, etc)

 

A good example is the RMS detector. Unfortunately implementing true RMS detection in an analog circuit is not that easy; thus not all RMS detectors are the same however their imperfection(s) does contribute to the "sound" of a compressor.

 

Peak detectors aren't the same either. Most are linear response while some are log response. They sound different; one works better on certain instruments while the other is better on others. Certain ones are better for program material.

 

While VCAs are largely linear (or exponential) devices, other control elements (optical, FET) are not. That's where the control law between detector and control element is crucial. And that's where sound design goals come in - transparent action or intentional subtle distortion artifacts? Sometimes imperfections can be a good thing. Even an imperfect exponential detector output into a linear VCA can yield a good result. Even a VCA becomes non-linear when it is pushed hard.

 

No one compressor works on everything. Not even "transparent" ones. You need a variety of compressors and it takes some auditioning to find the ones that give you the results you are looking for.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sometimes imperfections can be a good thing.

No one compressor works on everything. Not even "transparent" ones.

You need a variety of compressors and it takes some auditioning to find the ones that give you the results you are looking for.

 

Great post, y'all been readin' my mail!

 

Agreed on all points. I won't use the ART Levelar on everything but what it sounds good on it's amazing for how inexpensively it can be obtained. I paid $25 and shipping each for both of the ones I have (or will soon have).

The surprise for me was how quiet it is. I hate noisy stuff in a recording chain. It's one of the reasons I don't use single coil pickups much, among many other noisy devices.

 

I can't fault the RNC for anything, it's great at what it does. As of this afternoon, it is somebody else's toy. Will be packing it up in a few minutes. I don't hear a significant difference in results using it or the Eureka compressor and as you say, a variety is probably needed.

 

I have 2 flavors now and one was something I've wanted for a while, a non-subtle but musical sounding squasher. I was thinking I'd have to spend a lot more. Oddly, the dual rack mount version of the same unit fetches well over $200. The form factor would have been convenient but I got a pair of the same circuit for less than half so I'll deal with the minor inconveniences. I have other plans for the last rack space in this box.

 

I can see already that buying a rack case is like buying a banjo, later you look around and think "when did I buy 6 of those?" :laugh:

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

I can see already that buying a rack case is like buying a banjo, later you look around and think "when did I buy 6 of those?" :laugh:

Truth. I have a pile of SKB road cases in various sizes that I'm never going to use again, taking up space because I haven't gotten to put them up for sale yet.

Dr. Mike Metlay (PhD in nuclear physics, golly gosh) :D

Musician, Author, Editor, Educator, Impresario, Online Radio Guy, Cut-Rate Polymath, and Kindly Pedant

Editor-in-Chief, Bjooks ~ Author of SYNTH GEMS 1

 

clicky!:  more about me ~ my radio station (and my fam) ~ my local tribe ~ my day job ~ my bookmy music

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Today I received a 1 space rack shelf, soon I will have a front panel for it as well.

The plan is to reconfigure my existing mini patch bay, reduce the height so it fits on the shelf - and to move the Cloudlifter onto the shelf as well.

 

That will leave enough space next to the Focusrite ISA One to mount the Blue Robbie mic pre which is sitting on top of the rack right now.

Then I will have 4 units in the rack with send and return loops. The extra space on the new rack I am going to cobble up will have those 8 jacks on the front so I can easily patch anything I want into those loops.

 

I have some fun widgets that are not very rackable but testing shows me that they are all worthy of being in a signal chain here and there. I am pretty used to getting creative with tones going in, before digital conversion. Often it inspires one to create differently and lends a flavor to something.

 

Yes, you are stuck with it, that is part of the point. Once it's digital you have an absurd number of options to tweak the sound. I've experimented with ways to record a perfectly clean, unaltered track and a "signature" track at the same time.

I would still have that option but with one decision made in advance that I can keep too.

 

It could take a while, life has been a bit "interesting" lately. And I like to plan carefully so I can execute once with a workable result. I thought I'd pop this back up to the top in hopes that somebody else is doing something interesting and will post it here!

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Today the faceplate for my rackmount patch bay arrived. It is a thick piece of aluminum, well finished in black.

 

Why wouldn't I just get a pre-configured patch bay? I looked at them, did not see one that offered the configuration I need. They seem to be pretty expensive as well.

 

Or, why not a complete rack box? Blank boxes are available. Most of the ones I looked at were either plastic or steel. Steel is fine for everything except the plate the jacks will be mounted to and most of them do not offer the option to remove the front or back plate for drilling. Having a drill press, using flat stock is much easier than trying to drill holes in the end of a box and infinitely more controllable and precise.

 

The bottom will be fully covered, all metal. The top will be covered by the rack unit above it. I think it will all work fine with the hardware I have now.

 

I've got many Switchcraft 1/4" jacks, will research which need to be TRS and which can be TS - I have quite a few of each. I'll need to dig up one or two more XLR jacks and I've got all the parts I'll need to make this happen.

Will post a few pix as this progresses.

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been happy with the ProCo PM148 patchbays, easy to find used. I have three of them in my studio system. Each channel can be configured to open, parallel, normal, or half normal although they are only TS. Since the patchbays get reconfigured about every 3-4 years as my studio changes, I made labels for them. The front panel happens to be a ferrous metal so I got a pile of magnetic business card holders, stuck cards on them with the blank side facing out, and cut them to size for my labels. Lot cheaper than custom engraved rack panels.

 

For my other I/O panels I use u-formed blank panels from Middle Atlantic. Put the panels in a workmate and they're easy to drill. The u-form panels are plenty rigid when insert/pulling out plugs. Again, the panels are ferrous metal. Never had any audio problem using an I/O panel without a case.

 

When building your patch bay, you might want to use jacks with insulated sleeves on the inputs. Tying sleeve to chassis ground via an uninsulated jack can create ground buzz that will be a b!tch to track down.

 

I make my own cables too. I had WEIRD issues with MIDI for years until I finally uncovered that the shield wire inside the plug was contacting the shell, and the shell on the jacks of my homemade I/O panels are tied to chassis ground. That set up MIDI shield to contact chassis ground which can really mess up MIDI signals. I have about 50 homemade MIDI cables that I had to modify to insulate shield from the shell - LOT of work but the system behaved MUCH better.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Real MC!

 

I've got one homemade patch bay already with 3 XLR in-outs for mic pres and a TRS 1/4" going to two TS for splitting the headphone out on the Roland Handsonic to stereo tracks - the right channel jack is hosed but the headphones work great.

 

I want to add the Cloudlifter CL-1 and 8 1/4" jacks for send/return on 2 mic pres and 2 channel strips. I've got a few things I can run in the loops and some ideas. I'll need the flexibility until I find my best combinations. Then maybe I can dedicate and skip the bay.

 

I have 2 instruments that use MIDI. There is one MIDI input on my interface. I doubt I'll ever use the Handsonic and the Akai 25 key at the same time and the Akai will run on USB so I could do that.

 

Trying to keep things fairly simple, I want to set up channels from mic to hard drive and leave them if possible. If I can get the bass, the kick and the vocals to sound great the rest will be much easier.

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Commercial patchbays are indeed expensive. There's a lot riding on a good connection with those jacks, so it's not a good idea to use junkers.

 

The nice thing about the commercial patchbays is that there's almost always a switch or jumper arrangement that allows a top and bottom row pair to be either full-normal, half-normal, or independent. You can buy jacks with switch contacts that allow you to set up normalling, but if you want to change something, you need to re-solder.

 

Half-normal is very handy. Full normal isn't very useful other than when one of the jacks goes to a microphone, which you probably don't want to mult to more than one input at a time.

 

To keep your wits about you, wire everything so that the top row of jacks are outputs and the bottom row are inputs to which they're normally connected, so you make use of your normalling. With a setup like yours, you'll probably have a bunch of devices (synths, for example) that have outputs but no corresponding inputs. It's wasteful to have a top row of jacks connected with nothing connected to the corresponding inputs, so mark off a section of the patchbay for those, and make sure the top and bottom jacks aren't normalled in that section.

 

Like so many things in this biz, there's an advantage and a disadvantage to almost anything, and insulated jacks are one. The ones that you can buy ready to fly are the ones that have a square plastic housing with the threaded mounting bushing molded as part of the housing. That gets the job done, but the contacts in those jacks are, without exception as far as I've found, kind of flimsy. I wouldn't feel comfortable using them as patchbay jacks.

 

The ones with the metal bushing being the sleeve contact are more robust. It means that all of your cable shields (at least all that you connect to the patchbay jacks) are connected together. This sounds scary to many because it invites ground loops, but those can be avoided. The advantage is that the patchbay becomes the common ground point for everything and if you have a ground loop that you can't otherwise solve, you can disconnect the shield at the equipment end.

 

My method for managing one-end-only shield grounding is to start out with all shields connected at both ends. If you have a hum or buzz buzz problem, disconnect the cable shield. If the problem doesn't go away or gets worse, re-connect it and try lifting another shield. Continue this process until you solve the problem or get electrocuted.

 

You can wire up the patchbay end of your cables but leave the equipment ends disconnected, and connect them one at a time while monitoring however you usually monitor. If you hear hum or noise when you connect a piece of gear to the patchbay, fix that problem before plugging in the next piece.

 

Happy patching . . . after a lot of planning and soldering.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Mike! GOOD patch bays are expensive but there are lots of cheap ones on the market using crappy plastic jacks with flimsy construction. Again, I haven't seen a patchbay with the exact connections that I want. My rack is full, I am not planning on starting on a second rack any time soon. This project should serve my needs well while keeping things as simple as possible.

 

I have been diligently scrounging 1/4" Switchcraft jacks out of old test equipment and dead amps for a long time. I have more than enough of them to equip my intended patch bay.

Yes, I will clean each and every one of them before installation.

 

I've used up all of my vintage high quality USA made XLR connectors on my current small patch bay but I only one female XLR jack to complete the new project. I've got plenty of quality audio cable.

 

I'm not worried about any "para-normal - abnormal" circuits. My intent is simple - to provide access on the front panel of the rack to the jacks on the backsides of my interface and mic preamps / channel strips.

 

A send jack on the back of a mic pre will be routed to a jack on the front of the patch bay. If the send is TS I'll use a TS jack, if it is TRS I can use a TRS jack - I've got plenty of both and patch cables can be made to custom lengths to keep things tidy inside the rack.

Probably not as versatile as a switchable full / half normalled patch bay but I don't believe I'll need that versatility.

 

All AC power cords have been routed to the sides in the back of the unit, leaving space for audio cords in the middle of the back.

The patch bay will bring audio to the front, where there is no AC power routed.

 

I will also be making a small "pedal board" that will go on top of the rack and contain the non-rackable goodies I plan to run in the loops.

Every "widget" has been tested under the same conditions as my intended use already and so far, so good.

 

It's very affordable to build something like this and not much more money at all to use high quality components. That's the plan at the moment.

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

+1 for the ProCo model, I also have had excellent luck with the Re'an 48-point patchbays. You can change the normalling per channel, but it involves pulling the PCB and flipping it over (a fairly clever design that eliminates switches and works fine if you don't change normalling that often).

Dr. Mike Metlay (PhD in nuclear physics, golly gosh) :D

Musician, Author, Editor, Educator, Impresario, Online Radio Guy, Cut-Rate Polymath, and Kindly Pedant

Editor-in-Chief, Bjooks ~ Author of SYNTH GEMS 1

 

clicky!:  more about me ~ my radio station (and my fam) ~ my local tribe ~ my day job ~ my bookmy music

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll just add in passing that I have exactly 2 keyboard MIDI controllers Both can use USB, one can also use a MIDI DIN cable. I have a Roland Handsonic that can use a MIDI DIN cable, so far I've used it as an audio device.

And, I have a Fishman TriplePlay which transmits MIDI to a USB thumb wirelessly.

 

My Quantum interface has MIDI In and Out DIN jacks, one of each. I have no plans to expand my MIDI universe so I think that's plenty and they are fine right where they are now.

I could run all my MIDI devices at once using just those 2 DIN jacks and the Ankar 7 port USB hub I have. The chances of that ever happening are slim and none.

 

It could be a toss-up whether I am lazy or efficient, the results will be more or less the same either way. :laugh:

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not worried about any "para-normal - abnormal" circuits. My intent is simple - to provide access on the front panel of the rack to the jacks on the backsides of my interface and mic preamps / channel strips.

 

A send jack on the back of a mic pre will be routed to a jack on the front of the patch bay. If the send is TS I'll use a TS jack, if it is TRS I can use a TRS jack - I've got plenty of both and patch cables can be made to custom lengths to keep things tidy inside the rack.

Probably not as versatile as a switchable full / half normalled patch bay but I don't believe I'll need that versatility.

 

OK, so you probably don't need normalling unless you're bringing sends and returns out to your panel. You'll want to normal the send to its return so the device will work if you're not inserting anything. And if you're bringing your monitor chain into the panel, you might want to, for instance, normal the outputs of your interface that you usually use for monitoring to the inputs of your main power amplifiers or powered speakers, Then, for listening or playing, you can plug something directly into the monitors without having to mess with an interface or computer. Just make sure it has a volume control!

 

The reason why I suggested using TRS jacks on the patchbay and TRS plugs on the equipment ends of the cable is that you do a fair amount of horse trading, and if, for example, you replace a preamp with a TS output with one with a TRS output, if you want to take advantage of the balanced output, you won't have to change the jack and cable.

 

Nearly all of my patchbays are surplus telephone equipment. Built to last for a few million insertions, and I think I paid $10 for most of the ones I have. They're 1/4" TRS but the tip and ring are shaped a little differently than the standard 1/4" plug. They're designed so that the tip misses the ring contact going into the jack so that the tip and ring connections are made simultaneously. You don't get a blast of hum when you hot-patch. The jacks are quite amazing pieces of engineering. This is what's called a "long frame" jack and it's how all the "pro" patchbays are made. You can put a standard 1/4" plug into those jacks in an emergency, but it does tend to bend the tip and ring contacts further than they bend in normal service so I'm careful not to leave them plugged in when they're not being used. I have a few standard 1/4" jack to long frame plug adapter cables that are more jack-friendly.

 

[Jack picture]

long-frame-b-gauge-audio-patchbay-jack-module-6-lug-non-threaded-screw-hole-BLJ625-03.png?v=1509400799

 

[Plug picture]

31a-longframe-TWO-CONDUCTOR-TR-16-AWG-AUDIO-PATCH-CABLES-001_7ac12887-1087-4bdc-bab1-a295f638d86c.png?v=1454608624

 

Remember that gear changes frequently, but patchbays are more difficult to modify once they're in place. But if it's just a handful of jacks, making changes isn't a big deal. Just make your jack "tails" longer than just long enough. You might replace the piece of rack gear with something that has its jacks at the other end of the chassis and you you want the cables to reach. Also, they should be long enough so that you have enough slack to drop the patchbay down to get to the jacks in case you need to change or repair a cable.

 

And don't forget labels. You're getting on in years and if your memory is anything like mine, you'll need 'em.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great post Sr Mike, your clarity is appreciated and you make good points.

 

I'll hove to pull out my sack of jacks and see what I've got there. I know there are some switching jacks, I guess those could be wired as a "throughput" when nothing is plugged in and disconnect when something is plugged in. I take it that's more or less what normaling is?

 

I think most of my switching jacks are TS though.

 

It's been my experience that using unbalanced gear in an otherwise balanced circuit is not usually a problem, especially with short leads and reasonably quiet gear - both value added features of my proposed system.

 

As to labelling, I am 110% with you on that. I have some nice white aerospace plastic, I can cover the front of the patch bay with it easily and a sharpie writes well on it. Labels are just easier for everybody, old and decrepit or not!!!!

 

I've got some time to consider all this, at least 2 projects ahead of it now and another friend is talking about getting a guitar gone through so maybe 3.

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...