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Speaker Related Silly Question
#3056582 07/31/20 05:04 PM
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Have there been any sort of successful attempts to create a moving speaker other than the rotating Leslie type? Maybe a pendulum or how 'bout a twerking speaker? Is the effect anything worth while? Seems this would be fairly simple to model with software/VST. Yet I've never come across any products like this.

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Re: Speaker Related Silly Question
Markyboard #3056590 07/31/20 05:31 PM
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A swinging pendulum speaker would be easy enough to rig up, complete with mics on each end and in the middle. Controlling the speed and consistency is another matter.
I guess a gigantic clockwork like Big Ben could be fashioned to keep the speed consistent, considerably more complex (and probably a source of noise).

The Doppler effect of a train going by is pretty cool stuff!!! Maybe mag-lev to keep the noise down? Aerodynamics are important to consider as a source of noise as well.
A mag-lev train on a small circular track with multiple speaker/microphone options, deep beneath the earth in a silent cellar/bunker with huge ambience? I'm in, gimme!!!!

Getting that authentic 3d sound of a Leslie into a stereo field is a challenge. I used to do sound for a band and the keyboardist used a Leslie. It was hard to mic it up and never sounded anywhere near as cool coming through the PA as it did up on the stage, swirling in 3d.

I have the IK Multimedia TRackS Leslie and it's pretty awesome for what it is. I've been meaning to try the Eventide Multi Pitch on a duplicate track and automated volume and pan to create movement. That's multiple steps though and the pitch shifting is more subtle than a Leslie.

So many ways to drive ourselves insane!!!!


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Re: Speaker Related Silly Question
Markyboard #3056612 07/31/20 07:03 PM
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My wife and I went to the Tinguely Museum a few years ago where they have these really cool motorized sculptures. I kept thinking I wonder what it would sound like to stick a speaker on that.

If I was a lot smarter than I am it would be cool to design a VST where you can can do this virtually. But I suspect just like a real Leslie there's no substitute for moving air in 3D space.

Re: Speaker Related Silly Question
Markyboard #3056627 07/31/20 07:54 PM
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At best right now the common demoninator is stereo left/right in a horizontal field. Most "surround sound" systems do not capture true 3-d since they rarely deviate from the horizontal and use the vertical axis.

Yet we hear our own footsteps below us and the birds singing above.

Meanwhile, EVERYBODY has stereo playback systems so even if you could create a true 3-d sound plugin, who would ever hear it?


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Re: Speaker Related Silly Question
Markyboard #3056637 07/31/20 08:28 PM
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There was an article in Mix magazine probably 10+ years ago written by Steven St Croix iirc. It pertained to work being done to basically redefine the concept of the speaker. In fact there were no speaker at all; just some device to focus a beam of energy to stimulate air in a concentrated space (again iirc). Anyway I always liked this concept. Speakers are stupid. Why you need these mechanical excursion devices pushing limited amount of air based on size is just well... 20th century.

Now think about moving that energy beam around in any direction relative to the listener and yeah...I titled this thread appropriately.

Re: Speaker Related Silly Question
Markyboard #3056645 07/31/20 09:08 PM
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Back in the old days we used to accomplish this by swinging the mic. Much easier than moving the speaker

Re: Speaker Related Silly Question
Markyboard #3056656 07/31/20 09:53 PM
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If we’re talking live (which I was), that’s not the same thing.

Re: Speaker Related Silly Question
Markyboard #3056658 07/31/20 09:56 PM
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Plasma speaker?

I've read a bit about them. Interesting tech. Not very efficient as I recall.


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Re: Speaker Related Silly Question
Markyboard #3056661 07/31/20 10:09 PM
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That doesn’t ring a bell Kuru. I tried to Google it but came up empty, other than remembering from some other referenced articles how much I enjoyed his writings.

Re: Speaker Related Silly Question
Markyboard #3056663 07/31/20 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Markyboard
That doesn’t ring a bell Kuru. I tried to Google it but came up empty, other than remembering from some other referenced articles how much I enjoyed his writings.

Ah well. I am using Duck Duck Go and don't always find what I am looking for. Choice of words is crucial and sometimes you'll get thousands of hits. I never go farther than the second page without trying different words.

I have memories of reading Dad's Popular Science, Popular Mechanicx and Mechanix Illustrated magazines when I was a kid and two articles might have been interesting in the topic.

One, an article about a speaker the Army was messing with that used a flame somehow as the transducer. Supposedly it sounded good but really only useful as a tweeter.

On the opposite side of the spectrum - and this would have been late 60's or so - the US Military was looking into using sub-sonic sound as a weapon. Supposedly at 6 cps if you can get the volume up high enough, it kills everything. Good thing nobody told Spinal Tap!!!!!

I guess neither of those ideas ever made it past the test bench. My searches brought up all sorts of stuff but nothing like I was looking for. So it goes...


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Re: Speaker Related Silly Question
Markyboard #3056671 07/31/20 11:07 PM
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Now we’re talking:

Re: Speaker Related Silly Question
Markyboard #3056674 07/31/20 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Markyboard
Have there been any sort of successful attempts to create a moving speaker other than the rotating Leslie type? Maybe a pendulum or how 'bout a twerking speaker? Is the effect anything worth while?


Don Leslie tried many experiments of sound in motion back when he was developing his Leslie speaker. He found it hard to improve the Leslie as we know it. And he had been trying for over forty years.

Quote
Seems this would be fairly simple to model with software/VST. Yet I've never come across any products like this.

Not that simple. The Leslie effect is a combination of frequency modulation (Doppler effect), delay modulation (chorus effect), and phase modulation. The hard part is getting the balance and modulation depth accurate, which is different between top and bottom rotor, and the depths vary between slow/fast speeds. And the depths vary depending on the harmonics, which is why a drawbar organ sounds so animated through a Leslie cabinet. Don Leslie tried unsuccessfully to duplicate it electronically. The best simulation I have heard is the Dynacord CLS-222. I haven't heard a Ventilator yet which is probably the closest there is to a VST.

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Re: Speaker Related Silly Question
Markyboard #3056677 08/01/20 12:03 AM
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Now that you mention it I probably read this about Don Leslie. My thought isn’t to improve on the Leslie but to have alternatives. For example what would the Leslie sound like if you continuously altered/swapped the vertical positions of the rotor and horn at different rates?

We all know VSTs have attempted to simulate the Leslie with varying degrees of success. So yeah, I should have said conceptually simple. My thoughts were along similar lines as virtual microphones used with piano and drum kit VSTs. Only instead have virtual speakers with all kinds of graphic animations applied for different movements. How well this would translate to interesting effects is anyone’s guess.

The good thing here is for the most part there are no real world models to compare them to. So we won’t have to read for the next 20 years how the Pogo Stick Wobulator doesn’t sound authentic.

Re: Speaker Related Silly Question
Markyboard #3056678 08/01/20 12:28 AM
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Ah yes, the madness never ceases.

I’ve taken a slight interest in the now failing Apple HomePod speakers. Incredible and slightly Lesliesque tech behavior going on in there but I might have to flip one upside down so that the sub fires downwards and the “horns” fire from the top. The tweeters are in an array that might be hackable to facilitate actual “spin” with no moving parts. They also “listen” to the room so could make for some big Doppler fun with custom room tunings.

Fall prices fall and once out of fashion the used market will be tossing them out...I hope.


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