Mac Mini Fan Noise and move from Intel processor: Opinions?

[AnthonyM]

Hey Guy's,

 

I know some of you have picked up a Mac mini within the last year and was wondering what your experience was using it live as opposed to a MAC or Windows laptop. I know that you can get better specs for the money as compared to a Macbook Pro, which is why I'm looking at it. That, and because you can upgrade the memory yourself at a much reduced cost.

 

I've heard however that there is a great degree of fan noise coming from this unit. Is it really distracting in a closed room studio situation? I'm assuming that you really wouldn't be able to hear this live, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Also, since Apple is moving away from using Intel processors in future products ~ which understandably may cause compatiblity issues with 3rd party software down the line ~ is it better to just go with a Windows based laptop running Gig Performer 3 at this point? I've heard that this producy is really good. I also wouldn't mind running Cuebase as oposed to Logic and would probably be dipping into the Ableton Live waters as well.

 

The windows based laptops used for music production seem very expensive as well, since some do double-duty as gaming laptops with an included GPU. This adds to the cost significantly. The Mac Mini does not have this. But after buying the memory, a small external monitor , keyboard, external Thunderbolt SSD drive for samples and perhapes an external optical drive, things can add up fast!

 

PS ~ I have an i5 iMAC 27" from 2015 that I can also upgrade the O/S on and run from an external boot drive. This would save me from upgrading the intenal Hard Drive to SSD. I could then use this as my Studio PC. I've already purchase 32 GB of memory for it which I am installing soon. But I have also learned that you cannot share the Logic or Mainstage 3 sound library between two different MAC's.

 

If I were to run two different installs of Logic and MainStage 3 on two different MAC's for example , I would have to install the sample files either on the internal drive or to two different external SSD drives. So, there is no sound library sharing capability.

 

Thanks,

Anthony

[ElmerJFudd]

If you"re invested in MainStage and AU plugins you can sit out the switch to ARM until everything is ready. And it won"t take long - Apple will have the pro apps ready for ARM and developers will follow quickly without a doubt. AU3, the software side, is an inconvenient switch but not difficult. Hardware developers like if you use an external audio interface is a bit more work to develop drivers. If you use the internal sound card, Apple will have this driver ready with the OS.

 

A. Repair your mini

B. You can pick up a used intel Mac to tie you over

C. You can carefully select a Windows machine with a little research and do a platform jump for good.

[Song80s]

mention the spec of your mini.. did u buy it new ?

 

 

I have 2 of them,, not 1 bit of fa noise. Are you working memory intensive apps ? That might be the cause.

CPU gets worked hard,, heat builds,, fan kicks in.

 

I also have a 2015 MBP, love it. Fan kicks in when I tax the CPU, and it gets warm

[dongna]

I have an older Mini (from 2012 I believe) and I've never once heard the fan kick on. In fact, I didn't think it even had a fan (maybe the older ones don't?)

[ElmerJFudd]

Sure designs change, but there are typically fans on a graphics card even if the CPU is using a convection heat sync. It will kick in if doing FC Pro or gaming. It"s a small box, so even if there is a CPU fan, it"s going to be small and fairly quiet - unless dusty or the engine isn"t running great anymore.

[conundrum]

2014 Mini here. Really quiet.

[ChazKeys]

I also have 2014 Mac Mini - I can't even here my fan even when I'm hammering it with Logic and a loads of plugins. There is definitely something wrong there. I would install Mac Fan Control which will tell you how hot it is and will also let you control the fan speed.

 

https://crystalidea.com/macs-fan-control/download

 

I sometimes use it just to check my fan actually works. it has a manual option!

[AnthonyM]

Thanks guy's! I appreciate the input. No, I don't own a Mac Mini yet. I was going to use the iMac live as well until I actually saw how large and bulky it was. At the time I purchased it a couple of years ago the Mac Mini's that were out were not upgradable as far as RAM went, since everything was soldered in. Now, even with the Covid 19 situation, I do want to delve into using Softsynths and DAW's to use live and at home. I already had purchased software from as far back as 10 years ago, intending to use it with my Receptor, but that didn't work out and have since traded it in and upgraded to a Trio. Then Muse Research went out of business.

 

I have that Receptor currently with a version of Komplete on it. It kept restarting though, so had some work done on the software side. I was told that it was "looking" for Komplete updates. So, had that option turned off. I still have yet to test it out! I'm going to keep it as a backup only. But will have to program everything twice if I do this!

 

But, with technology being what it is, I would like to really jump into Logic / Mainstage or Cuebase / Gig Performer rather than spend too much time with older technology. Again, when I purchased the Receptor Trio, PC's and MACS were not as capable as they are now! I myself am more comfortable with the Windows platform, but I do see a lot of performers (including Escape Rocks from this forum) going MAC. So, did want to ask. Especially see he advised that the sounds he was getting through software were better than what he had in hardware previously. I believe that now he is using a Montage in his setup.

 

My preference is still hardware, and I have a few keyboards, BUT I believe better quality of sounds are going to be produced in software. Also, for composing the ease of use of programs like EZ Drummer / EZ Bass and the sheer quality of Orchestral and Synth sounds can't be touched in hardware.

I heard a Big Band software the other week that was completely astonishing! It was called Glory Day's and is produced in Germany. Also I was impressed with the audio demo's of Spitfire Audio's BBC Orchestra.

 

As far as the fan noise goes: I had watched a video from Andertons on YouTube where their keyboard guy Jack mentioned that it was very loud. He was testing out some software in the video vs. the sounds available in the Nord Stage. So a software to hardware comparison.

 

I know I've asked about laptop rigs before so please excuse my redundency. It's just that I may be pulling the trigger soon, and didn't want to make any purchase mistakes.

 

Thanks for the responses - I am still on the fence though about whether to go Windows or MAC. Are there ANY advantages to going MAC at this point or does it just come down to preference?

 

 

Thanks Again,

Anthony

[timwat]

In my anecdotal experience, Mac Minis are typically very quiet machines, with the occasional fan burst under heavy thermal load conditions - the normal stuff you'd expect. I don't own one, but have worked on two for my extended family.

 

But there are a couple of common reasons the internal fan can go full blast for no apparent reason. First of all, it can be an internal software issue that might be able to be fixed with a PRAM reset or similar re-initialization.

 

Another one is if you decide to DIY an upgrade to the HD (for example, replacing the original with a larger SSD or similar). A common mistake when you're taking out the old drive is to focus on the normal connectors and ignore the tiny wire that doesn't seem necessary. If you trace that, it's connected to a thermal sensor that is softly glued onto the side of the original HD with the plastic "cover". And apparently by default, if that's not installed onto your new HD (and thus sending a temp), the safety default is for the fan to go 100% RPM all the time.

 

Fix is to peel the sensor off the original HD, reconnect it to the main board and place the sensor somewhere it gets warm, you'll get normal fan function again. Quiet as a....Mac Mini.

 

For the OP, basically I'd suggest if a Mac Mini is inordinately noisy due to 100% fan all the time, something needs to be fixed in the computer. It's not normal.

[timwat]

 

I know I've asked about laptop rigs before so please excuse my redundency. It's just that I may be pulling the trigger soon, and didn't want to make any purchase mistakes.

 

Thanks for the responses - I am still on the fence though about whether to go Windows or MAC. Are there ANY advantages to going MAC at this point or does it just come down to preference?

 

 

Thanks Again,

Anthony

 

For my kinds of gigs, I'm a hardware only guy, and don't have any plans in the near future to try computers live again. Been there, done that.

 

If I were to think about it again, I would choose laptop over mac mini simply to reduce the amount of connections, pieces and things to lose. YMMV.

 

While I converted from Win to Mac about 15 years ago (but still use both platforms for work), I am told by many that there is no substantive advantage to either platform nowadays for music. Key best practices include configuring your hardware appropriately to avoid bloat and conflict, choosing the right platform (MainStage, Gig Peformer, etc.), not using your music computer for other activities, avoiding unnecessary OS updates once you have a stable system, and keeping drunk groupies from spilling vodka red bulls on your rig.

[ElmerJFudd]

Depends on one"s definition of substantive. While neither OSX nor Windows are real time OSes like LynxOS, ELK, etc. OSX has better audio and midi services, Mac hardware works out of the box for low latency audio, OSX supports aggregate audio devices natively. You"ll never need to go digging in your registry to clear out a limit on audio midi devices (did Win10 correct this)? There"s no home/enterprise versions of OSX. I"ve never needed to hunt for DPC latency issues on a Mac. However, Apple charges stoopid money for storage and memory upgrades and some models are notoriously not fun to open and get to these components. And if you didn"t buy the fastest CPU from the get go, you can"t yank it from the socket and replace it when it comes down in price (at least I"ve never tried to do this). If you enjoy building PC"s and are into hot rodding them (I find it fun), know your way around selecting and installing components and getting into Windows to get it streamlined for real time audio, you can build and setup a monster machine in any form factor for a savvy amount of money. And, until the switch to ARM happens - you can even dual boot OSX and Windows on the same hardware - Mac or PC and run the current version of MainStage.

[AnthonyM]

Hey Tim, thank you. Your input as well as the other post from Elmer and the other forum members continues to be invaluable. It seems I am always in the planning stages of putting a studio and live rig together and never finilize it. So, as technology marches on, I need to make changes.

 

But, after the laptop purchase (or maybe before if I decide to utilize the iMAC as a studio PC) I'm really going to be jumping into the technology aspects of it. It's funny, becuase I am an IT Support Technician by profession, but have stayed away from tech for music all this time. I mean, even with hardware, the learning curve can be quite a bit. I have a Kronos 2 here that I have yet to wrap my head around. Of course I can do the basic navigation. But when it came down to loading new sound libraries without losing what was already on the keyboard, I was at a loss. That's why I installed PCG Tools on my Windows laptop and will be delving into that as well.

 

~ Anthony

[Theo Verelst]

It's pretty simple from a scientific point of view: a chip that performs, unfortunately produces waste energy in the form of heat. The A.R.M. processors are in some senses noticeably more energy efficient, but also IIRC have smaller chip die size, so in total they will reduce heat production, and require less cooling. A notebook with fan less operation having an serious Intel chip isn't likely unless it has very little compute power.

 

T

[AnthonyM]

Thanks Theo, your input is always appreciated.

 

~ Anthony

[Dr Mike Metlay]

TL;DR My Mini makes a lot of noise under certain circumstances, but those have nothing to do with audio applications. It's whisper-quiet the rest of the time.

 

at greater length:

 

As I mentioned in another thread, one of my music revenue streams involves Second Life, which is a very inefficiently coded 'video game'. It absolutely slays on-chip graphics, and the Mini will overheat and throttle within minutes of launching it. This can shorten the life of the CPU, as the Mini's onboard fan is anemic, airflow in the case is poor, and the fan ramps up much too slowly in response to temperature changes (Macs Fan Control is vital for applications like this, and the Full Blast setting makes temperatures barely tolerable but makes the Mini sound like a dustbuster).

 

This basically means that the Mini isn't a gaming machine... which is kind of like saying a Toyota Avalon, reliable as it is, really isn't suited for running the Indy 500.

 

The only time I ever heard my Mini's fan kick on doing audio is when I was rendering a file with spectral noise reduction in iZotope RX 7 -- a file that was two hours long. YMMV.

[GuitarMage]

Hey Guy's,

 

Also, since Apple is moving away from using Intel processors in future products ~ which understandably may cause compatiblity issues with 3rd party software down the line ~ is it better to just go with a Windows based laptop running Gig Performer 3 at this point? I've heard that this producy is really good. I also wouldn't mind running Cuebase as oposed to Logic and would probably be dipping into the Ableton Live waters as well.

 

Apple is switching to ARM platform, yes, hiccups are to be expected. I wouldn't recommend it until things go stable (for live gigs or music production).

Windows based laptop is a great solution if you want to go cheap. Gig Performer use ridiculously low CPU, so it may be a good combination even with old laptops (Ableton Link is supported, also a full OSC implementation).

 

I'm a Windows user, running a budget configuration, but it all works fine - I have all I need.

 

Regards,

GuitarMage

[ElmerJFudd]

GigPerformer, yes - we hear it"s efficient. Which VST"s you pick vary in CPU/Memory/Storage speed requirements greatly. Have you tried Omnishphere and Roland Cloud products on your setup?

[GuitarMage]

No, I'm using the Plugin Alliance bundle, NI Guitar Rig, S-Gear and free plugins when I design my (guitar-oriented) setup with Gig Performer.

I've tested the PA bundle in terms of CPU usage and RAM on a 10 years' old laptop - it works perfectly.

 

When I get the chance, I'll also test how Omnisphere behaves on my second laptop.

[EscapeRocks]

GigPerformer, yes - we hear it"s efficient. Which VST"s you pick vary in CPU/Memory/Storage speed requirements greatly. Have you tried Omnishphere and Roland Cloud products on your setup?

 

Roland Cloud and Omnisphere (and Keyscape) play VERY nicely on my 2018 Mac Mini and Gig Performer. The Roland Cloud does tend to ramp up CPU usage when using Mainstage

 

My data files (except Mainstage internal sound) all live on a 2TB SSD that sits in the second bay in my Rack Mac Mini enclosure

[AnthonyM]

Hello David

 

What exactly do you have in your rack? I saw the Sonnet Technologies RackMac mini 1U Rack Mount Enclosure for Mac mini which I wasn't aware of before. You also mentioned that you have a 2 TB storage drive but that you Mainstage files / sounds do not reside on it?

 

As you probably read, I haven't bought a Mac Mini yet. Although it would be more cost effective to get a premium gaming Windows based laptop like the Rouge or Razor machines, I don't think that they have the capacity for 64 GB of RAM. I need to figure out the real world performance difference between 32 and 64 GB when playing live using backing tracks and VST's simultaneously on 1 laptop.

 

BTW - are you using a Thunderbolt 3 drive or USB 3.1 for your external drive containing your samples? I am also going to post that as a general question in the forum to see what other members are doing? Are you still using the Montage or ModX in your setup? I believe you said you were using this, unless I have you confused with another forum member.

 

Thanks Again,

Anthony

[Docbop]

Hello David

 

What exactly do you have in your rack? I saw the Sonnet Technologies RackMac mini 1U Rack Mount Enclosure for Mac mini which I wasn't aware of before. You also mentioned that you have a 2 TB storage drive but that you Mainstage files / sounds do not reside on it?

 

As you probably read, I haven't bought a Mac Mini yet. Although it would be more cost effective to get a premium gaming Windows based laptop like the Rouge or Razor machines, I don't think that they have the capacity for 64 GB of RAM. I need to figure out the real world performance difference between 32 and 64 GB when playing live using backing tracks and VST's simultaneously on 1 laptop.

 

BTW - are you using a Thunderbolt 3 drive or USB 3.1 for your external drive containing your samples? I am also going to post that as a general question in the forum to see what other members are doing? Are you still using the Montage or ModX in your setup? I believe you said you were using this, unless I have you confused with another forum member.

 

Thanks Again,

Anthony

 

There are Windows laptops with 64GB of RAM here's a list of some.

 

https://gadgetscane.com/best-laptop-with-64gb-ram/

 

As for rackmount Mac Mini's here recent video of wheatworkspro showing his video recording setup he uses for tutor videos. He's using two rack mount Mac Mini's.

 

 

[video:youtube]

[b3plyr]

Mike,

 

You hit on a lot of good points.

 

What version of the Mac mini are you running? Year and processor.

 

Will