Apple moves from Intel to ARM and from macOS X to macOS 11

[Joe Muscara]

Heh - I thought about prefacing the video with a comment about his style. Rene is very well-respected for his info and insights, but I often feel like I'm running out of breath when I watch him! I literally worry about him getting COVID-19 because I wonder if he has the lung capacity.

[Joe Muscara]

P.S. I think some of that is also editing. He's not the only YTer that seems to edit out too many pauses andyoureleftwithabunchofwordstogetherandyoudontwhenitsgoingtoendbuthesmakingagoodpointsoyougowithitbutbytheendyouwonderwhathappened.

[stoken6]

I think he's saying those who are acting like it's just a CPU change are missing the point. It's WAY more than that as he explains.

I can agree with that. The fact that Apple will design their own silicon means they can optimise it for their own purposes - such as including additional security/crypto capabilities, ML features, specific GPU functions, whatever.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Theo Verelst]

I didn;t look at the explanation video, unless that would be recommended anyway, but there's general knowledge missing. There's the possibility for anyone to create a computer, and in principle, anyone sufficiently qualified can set out to make their own CPU, memory structure, device interfaces, and Operating System. Digital electronics-wise making a CPU from the start is usually a hard liners game, for the people that aren't afraid of serious EE challenges and will take money and some time to approach perfection. A simple microcontroller's CPU may be not too much of a problem, but as soon as you want to get serious and competitive and include tools for a serious OS, it's a big job to do right.

 

So there are people who offer building blocks for existing CPUs, with customisation options, and then software and manpower can turn these trusted designs into almost guaranteed working chips. RISC A.R.M. is one of those architectures, and as far as I know Apple did some customizing and already brings out pads with this technology they prefer to call all their own, but as far as I know it's existing technology with their thumb prints and some proprietary interfacing or parameters.

 

So it's not like in the early 90s when HP and DEC made their own Risc Cpu designs to compete everybody else in utter defeat. Pads don't cool too well, but better than phones, and have some more power than phones, and a desktop with something akin to an Octacore can afford to draw even more current and set some design parameters to higher performance.

 

T

[stoken6]

I think that's what I'm trying to say Theo. Apple are taking an existing (logical) design, namely the instruction set, and extending it. That's not the same as what HP and DEC did (or IBM with POWER, come to that), as you mentioned in your post.

 

BTW I'm not trying to score points on either side. I don't have a dog in this race, beyond a passing interest in ARM architecture.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Docbop]

I didn;t look at the explanation video, unless that would be recommended anyway, but there's general knowledge missing. There's the possibility for anyone to create a computer, and in principle, anyone sufficiently qualified can set out to make their own CPU, memory structure, device interfaces, and Operating System. Digital electronics-wise making a CPU from the start is usually a hard liners game, for the people that aren't afraid of serious EE challenges and will take money and some time to approach perfection. A simple microcontroller's CPU may be not too much of a problem, but as soon as you want to get serious and competitive and include tools for a serious OS, it's a big job to do right.

 

So there are people who offer building blocks for existing CPUs, with customisation options, and then software and manpower can turn these trusted designs into almost guaranteed working chips. RISC A.R.M. is one of those architectures, and as far as I know Apple did some customizing and already brings out pads with this technology they prefer to call all their own, but as far as I know it's existing technology with their thumb prints and some proprietary interfacing or parameters.

 

So it's not like in the early 90s when HP and DEC made their own Risc Cpu designs to compete everybody else in utter defeat. Pads don't cool too well, but better than phones, and have some more power than phones, and a desktop with something akin to an Octacore can afford to draw even more current and set some design parameters to higher performance.

 

T

 

 

Sure there are, but the expense and risk is very high. One of the companies I worked for almost went under from cost (in the 80's) of doing networking on a chip. Cost of design and working with one of the big chip makers at the time. Early prototype went fine, but on the final chip the chip maker messed up one trace and the chip was no longer a single network on a chip but required one support chip to fix the problem. We went back to the chip maker and a long battle back and forth trying to get them to redo the chip and fix the one trace, they said it was our fault we showed them it was theirs, but in the end we just didn't have the money to risk for another round of silicon or moving to another chip maker.

 

So to do System On a Chip (SoC) that Apple is doing is extremely expensive and risky because the SoC is so complex and the smallest issue can be ridiculously expensive to fix. This is also why even though an SoC Mac should drop in price because the BOM will be greatly reduced, it won't because R&D is so high and the Steve Jobs legacy of high profit margins are all that's important.

[Zalman Stern]

So to do System On a Chip (SoC) that Apple is doing is extremely expensive and risky because the SoC is so complex and the smallest issue can be ridiculously expensive to fix. This is also why even though an SoC Mac should drop in price because the BOM will be greatly reduced, it won't because R&D is so high and the Steve Jobs legacy of high profit margins are all that's important.

 

If only Apple had a suitably high volume market for their SoCs to amortize the R&D cost...

 

I was one of the main contributors to the PowerPC port of Photoshop. (And was personally responsible for there being a performant Photoshop solution available at first customer ship.) Been up and down this road and done paid my dues to the cult of Apple. My main take is if this is the best we can do for moving personal computing forward, we're pretty far down the curve of diminishing returns. Push comes to shove it likely won't change things much. One hopes some significant innovation will happen elsewhere.

 

-Z-

[ElmerJFudd]

And yet here we are. IDC's full-year statistics show Apple taking 34.6 percent of the 2019 tablet market on shipments of 49.9 million iPads, up 15.2 percent from 29.6 percent on 43.3 million units shipped in 2018. Plus the 40.8 million iPhones sold based on the same platform. And Adobe already has full Photoshop running on iOS. Expect it to be ready for the SoC Macs on release.

[Zalman Stern]

And yet here we are. IDC's full-year statistics show Apple taking 34.6 percent of the 2019 tablet market on shipments of 49.9 million iPads, up 15.2 percent from 29.6 percent on 43.3 million units shipped in 2018. Plus the 40.8 million iPhones sold based on the same platform. And Adobe already has full Photoshop running on iOS. Expect it to be ready for the SoC Macs on release.

 

The comment about SoC volume was obviously sarcasm. Sorry you didn't get it.

 

-Z-

[ElmerJFudd]

I suspected! But wasn"t certain.

[ElmerJFudd]

Tech analysts Komiya predicts,

 

Transferring to Apple Silicon

2020

MacBook

MacBook Pro 13'

2021

iMac (partly)

MacBook Pro 16' (partly)

2022

iMac Pro

Mac Pro

iMac (rest)

MacBook Pro 16' (rest)

[uhoh7]

I have apple crap all over the house and have taught many people to use it over the last twenty years. I moved all my computer clients to apple from about 2010-12.

 

That said, there is no overstating the arrogance of Apple, and their complete disregard of real world issues for users. Their failure to support older devices with more simple OS versions is frankly, evil. Laptops without the USB 2 and 3 style inputs, in addtion to USB-c are another willfully arrogant tactic which has the older laptops at a premium used. Fan speeds which will not cool their laptops, simply so the laptop will be quieter has ruined many of them. I run SMC fan control on all of mine.

 

The total seperation of apple stores from apple repair centers can cause a $200 Apple Store battery replacement to rise to over 500.

 

Nagging constantly for upgrades which break all sorts of software, with no way to turn off the nags: another slap in users faces.

 

Just mention the word "catalina" to somebody with a studio. So rude and incompetant.

 

ARM processors have never come close to intel performance, but we have learned the secret of intel's speed is fundamentally insecure, and that is one major motivating factor.

 

Apple is an extreme monopoly, with the only viable alternatives being Android or Windows. Android is far behind in performance, and shows no sign of catching up. The variety of hardware which must use that OS precludes it. Windows can run very fast, but Microsoft is just as arbitrary and far more incompetant than Apple. The internet is a dangerous place for a windows machine, which is the primary reason I switched all my people. If a user is careful and prepared to reinstall at anytime, the hardware can be quite good. Fit and finish are awful, though. The trackpads are a joke compared to apple even in 2020.

 

The internet is built on Linux, and I have built a number of Linux rigs and run it on unsupported apple and windows hardware. Totally functional for basic stuff, but graphics performance is way behind, with a few possible special exceptions. Both windows and linux simply require more of one's finite lifespan to maintain and configure.

 

So I use apple. I let the IOS devices stay updated. My personal laptops and imacs are sierra, HS or Mojave (already inferior) and I certainly would not touch crapalina. Apple has all the tools to be good. Instead it's vipers nest of "stakeholders" and a vindictive outfit to those who critique them. Those "events" are so disgusting. Let's worship this monopoly!

 

They have the resources to choose and enhance various processor platforms. It's all about control, naturally.

 

I just wish they would "control" some of their own crappy apps, like the podcast app, which is always secretly crashing, though at least it now restarts itself. I use safari about 50% of the time, but it's obviously not as well developed as chrome or firefox, and you never know when some update will effect it. Photos is a complete nightmare. Apple hates Adobe, but can't even make a lightroom competitor.

 

Ah Well, the library was not always fun either

 

Rant over