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Changes in the rig....


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Well... I sold my FA-07 after all. It's out the door, and with my 50th birthday coming up, I have a window and budget for some new gear. I'm just not sure what my needs are since my band and gig schedule is blank for the foreseeable future here, but trying to come up with a multi year plan that covers all of my bases. But I am mostly playing at home.

 

Here are some scenarios I have sketched out. All of them assume that my Viscount Legend Live and my Komplete Kontrol setup with Logic is locked in and are keepers and these both serve a very specific purpose, vs. my more general use tools (rompler, workstation, synth type of categories)

 

Anyway... here are some ideas I have sketched on paper in my budget:

 

Option 1:

New: Roland Fantom 7

New: Roland Jupiter X

Keep: Kurzweil Forte 7

 

This is pretty sonically awesome, powerful and flexible. I won't have a portable carry-around board like the FA-07 so all of these are a heavy lift to take out whenever that happens)

 

Option 2:

New: Nord Piano 4 or Nord Grand

New: Fantom 7

The Kurzweil Forte is out the door for a Nord Piano focused instrument here, just these two in the rig, no additional synth

 

The thinking here is that my Forte is redundant as a Rompler/Workstation with a new Fantom... but they are not really selling all that well in the used market either and I can trade it in on a new Nord. I could just use that spot for a best in class piano slab, but then the Nord Grand would never be a gigging board and just a luxury instrument at home. The Piano4 would be more flexible to gig with.

 

Option 3:

New: Nord Stage 3 Compact

New: Fantom 8

The Kurzweil Forte is out the door and I have the Fantom 8 as a new workstation/rompler. It's also way too big and heavy to gig with but gives me my nice 88 key bed and lots of sonic power.

 

I'm actually not a fan of the Nord Stage 3 Compact synth and think it is really limited for me, but it's really the idea all-in-one carry around board for rehearsals and light gigs as long as it's not synth heavy. I'm just looking at it as functionality, compromise, weight/size, etc.

 

I could also make some other maneuvers like a Stage 3 88 and a Fantom 6 for instance and sell the Forte. I still love the Forte a lot so I'm not in a hurry to get rid of it, but I know what my budget is and am moving buy/sell/keep options up and down.

 

I don't think I would buy a new Kronos or Montage at this point in time, but they are certainly great too, and options. I feel like I know my way around Roland, Kurzweil Forte and Nords pretty well because I find them easier. The most attractive thing for me out of Nord is more in the Piano/Grand offerings and less of GASing for Stage, but Stage is very versatile for jam sessions and rehearsals and light to carry around.

 

Leaning towards option 1, but not sure if the Fantom 7 and Jupiter X are different enough sonically.

Yamaha U1 Upright, Roland Fantom 8, Nord Stage 4 HA73, Nord Wave 2, Korg Nautilus 73, Viscount Legend Live, Lots of Mainstage/VST Libraries

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Most of the Jupiter and Fantom sounds are interchangeable between them, the RD-88 and the Zenology soft synth. In addition to that, each board does something unique: if I'm not mistaken, the Jupiter has more versatile synth stuff while the Fantom has gotten more SuperNatural acoustic sounds. I use the Nord Stage 2 weighted for my bread and butter, and the Roland JUNO-G 61-key workstation for rompler/workstation stuff, rehearsals and smaller gigs. Works pretty well and it is great to have two different manufacturers' soundsets in the rig.

Life is subtractive.
Genres: Jazz, funk, pop, Christian worship, BebHop
Wishlist: 80s-ish (synth)pop, symph pop, prog rock, fusion, musical theatre
Gear: NS2 + JUNO-G. KingKORG. SP6 at church.

 

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Maybe this is a poor analogy but if you were a painter who could work with different styles, you'd want to have oils, acrylics, and watercolors available. A Fantom and Jupiter X, despite different functionalities, just seems so homogenous in terms of character.

 

Speaking for myself, I couldn't get by without a lightweight do-everything board for rehearsals, jams, and "sloppy" gigs. Age 50 is around the time the light-is-right credo really hits home, and the complaints you hear from you body just keep getting louder. On the other hand, keyboards like that are easy to find on the used market. You can bide your time and poach something useable from Craigslist when it pops up.

Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro

Home: Vintage Vibe 64

 

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Maybe this is a poor analogy but if you were a painter who could work with different styles, you'd want to have oils, acrylics, and watercolors available. A Fantom and Jupiter X, despite different functionalities, just seems so homogenous in terms of character.

 

Speaking for myself, I couldn't get by without a lightweight do-everything board for rehearsals, jams, and "sloppy" gigs. Age 50 is around the time the light-is-right credo really hits home, and the complaints you hear from you body just keep getting louder. On the other hand, keyboards like that are easy to find on the used market. You can bide your time and poach something useable from Craigslist when it pops up.

 

Well said and for exactly both of those reasons, if I have that need I could see a MODX or Electro type of instrument eventually finding its way into the trunk of my car on extended stay. They seem to be always available and a used MODX6 can now be had for $800 on Reverb. It also checks the "not another Roland" box. But that is really the compromise to consider, I know!

Yamaha U1 Upright, Roland Fantom 8, Nord Stage 4 HA73, Nord Wave 2, Korg Nautilus 73, Viscount Legend Live, Lots of Mainstage/VST Libraries

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Leaning towards option 1, but not sure if the Fantom 7 and Jupiter X are different enough sonically.

This is a good question. I'm still unclear as to whether the virtual synth engines of the Jupiter X will or will not make it to the Fantom. If they do, then it seems there will no longer be any sonic advantage for a Fantom owner to get a Jupiter, only an operational one for all the hands-on dedicated synth controls.

 

Option 2...The thinking here is that my Forte is redundant as a Rompler/Workstation with a new Fantom...I could just use that spot for a best in class piano slab

While the Nords are obviously a fine choice if you want to go that way, I wouldn't rule out other contenders for best-in-class pianos. Since one of your options there is something that "would never be a gigging board and just a luxury instrument at home" you might also consider a Kawai MP11SE. And if you still prefer something not quite so immovable, I have to say that I thought the Korg SV2 acquitted itself very nicely next to the Nord at this video

- though it would have been better if he would have compared, for example, each board's Steinway sample to the other's, each board's Yamaha sample to the other, and so forth, instead of the randomness of comparing, for example, preset 1 to preset 1. I have Stage 3 Compact and I have an SV2 on order, and I'm looking forward to comparing those piano sounds myself. Who knows, maybe I'll do a video...

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Sonics are overrated. Workflow trumps all that. The Fantom may slay other boards if you find the keypad sampler essential. It is what keeps the FA-06 in my rig. Kronos may slay all other boards because Korg SetList rules. It all 'sounds" good enough within certain parameters.

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

 

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!

So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt

 

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My view here - being the owner of an RD2000, and an FA07 - and with a Fantom 7 incomming.....

 

Depends on how important weight is for you. The Fantom 8 is a BEAST of a board weight wise.

also depends what sounds your looking for. Is it synth heavy or is it general sounds?

finally - your not going to utilise a "master controller" centrepiece in a twin board rig (which I WILL as I have 2 synth modules and an organ module as well to drive) which takes away some of Fantoms useage for you. - which will change the best all round option.

 

So with those in mind, Ill give 3 senarios.

 

 

Scenario 1. Weight IS important, and your after great all round sounds.

 

Nord Grand Stage (keybed isnt QUITE RD2000/Kawai standards, but its close, Nord Piano keybeds are awful) - with a Fantom 7 for everything else.

 

 

 

Senario 2. Weight is important to you , and your synth focussed in sounds.

 

Nord Grand Stage (same reasons as senario 1) - with a Jupiter X, its a better all round synth than Fantom but looses strings, Orchestral, Drums etc.

 

 

 

Senario 3 - weight isnt an issue.

 

Fantom 8, with something else - EITHER a Roland VR730/Nord ElectroD if organs are important, or a proper synth (if your more that way inclined) but probably not Jupiter X as its too close to Fantom. Choose a DM12 (low cost), or DSi Rev 2, or Hydrasynth, or Summit. Probably the latter for me.

 

 

Caveat here - if you intend to add modules later on, then the Fantom is about the best live "centrepiece" you can get. Aftertouch is heavy on the 8 though - in which case Id Go Grand Stage and Fantom 7 even if your use is synth heavy - add the bits Fantom cant do in a module later.

Roland RD2000, FA07 (soon to be Fantom7), Legend EXP, Peak, Virus Ti2 Desktop.
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I think Paul nailed the 3 scenarios. I"d vote for #3... you get the better 88 key action plus all the other features of the Fantom with the Nord as a go to if you"re playing live and don"t want to lug the Fantom.

But hey, I used to lug a real Rhodes, Oberheim 8 Voice and a dual manual crumar organ among other things. After that I think I carried a KX-88 with a Roland MKS20 piano module and a Yahama TX816 with a D50 on top. After so many years of playing on weighted 88 keys (some good, some bad), I can"t think of not doing so. Please accept my vote knowing my bias.

Using:

Yamaha: Montage M8x| Spectrasonics: Omnisphere, Keyscape | uhe: Diva, Hive2, Zebra2| Roland: Cloud Pro | Arturia: V Collection

NI: Komplete 14 | VPS: Avenger | Cherry: GX80 | G-Force: OB-E | Korg: Triton, MS-20

 

Sold/Traded:

Yamaha: Motif XS8, Motif ES8, Motif8, KX-88, TX7 | ASM: Hydrasynth Deluxe| Roland: RD-2000, D50, MKS-20| Korg: Kronos 88, T3, MS-20

Oberheim: OB8, OBXa, Modular 8 Voice | Rhodes: Dyno-My-Piano| Crumar: T2

 

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Cool problems to have! Deciding among flagships.... Actually, I've cured myself of the extremes of GAS once I realized that every board I buy is a MAJOR investment of time to learn and get it setup with favorites, etc. Also, most of the boards under your consideration are just too heavy for me.

 

How about a NC 2x for a rehearsal board with an iPad for extra sounds. Many people have noted that you can get by with it for piano. That at least gives you more options depending on the gig.

 

@ Another Scott,

The SV-2 with speakers? Looks schweeet!

Numa Piano X73 /// Kawai ES920 /// Casio CT-X5000 /// Yamaha EW425

Yamaha Melodica and Alto Recorder

QSC K8.2 // JBL Eon One Compact // Soundcore Motion Boom Plus 

Win10 laptop i7 8GB // iPad Pro 9.7" 32GB

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I think Paul nailed the 3 scenarios. I"d vote for #3... you get the better 88 key action plus all the other features of the Fantom with the Nord as a go to if you"re playing live and don"t want to lug the Fantom.

But hey, I used to lug a real Rhodes, Oberheim 8 Voice and a dual manual crumar organ among other things. After that I think I carried a KX-88 with a Roland MKS20 piano module and a Yahama TX816 with a D50 on top. After so many years of playing on weighted 88 keys (some good, some bad), I can"t think of not doing so. Please accept my vote knowing my bias.

 

Lol - I didnt actually give my choice..... Well not MY choice, but if I was in the OPs shoes. Id go with you for a general cover all bases thing and Take option 3 with the Nord. Fantom 8 and Nord electro. You have access to Nords Piano sounds with the Roland PH5 keybed, the best organs outside of a dedicated tonewheel (VR730 is on par here maybe, and Fantom is getting the VR Organ engine at some point), Fantom is a very capable synth in its own right, plus more SNA sounds regularly. When you need a light pick up and go, just take the Nord. Its a good enough keybed to play piano on at a push, a has enough other sounds to get by with.

 

If it was me... I already have the RD2000 and Fantom 7 (tomorrow). If I didnt have the RD already Id have a Grand stage to pair with the Fantom instead - so option 1 from my original list.

Roland RD2000, FA07 (soon to be Fantom7), Legend EXP, Peak, Virus Ti2 Desktop.
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The first decision is made. I"m going to add the Jupiter X first and think it"s going to take the place of my now sold FA-07 in a few weeks.

 

So next up, I am thinking of a Fantom 6 or 7 vs Kronos 2 61 debate. The 7 is something I really want in size, but am both considering that the Kronos gives me another manufacturers sound pallet and that I really love the ergonomics and layout of the new Fantom.

 

I think in a 6 size I am addressing the need for a more portable board as well. These are clocking in at 31-33 pounds but that seems manageable.

 

I don"t feel like I"m in a hurry to make a decision about the Forte. I mean I like it, sounds killer, and so much versatility in a home studio.

 

I think similarities aside, I could really be jumping right into the Fantom workflow right away and Kronos is just way more complex.

Yamaha U1 Upright, Roland Fantom 8, Nord Stage 4 HA73, Nord Wave 2, Korg Nautilus 73, Viscount Legend Live, Lots of Mainstage/VST Libraries

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Fantoms workflow is great BUT its real strengths are its synth engine - however the Jupiter is seven better, and its control ability (ie running a rig) but unless you have lots of modules and/or run a soft system thats going to be lost on you as well.

 

Id say Fantom OR Jupiter is your top board but not both - then either a weight board for piano playing (and yes you COULD Go Fantom 8 and Jupiter to perform that if the cost isnt an issue), OR another synth action of whatever size from another manufacturer.

Roland RD2000, FA07 (soon to be Fantom7), Legend EXP, Peak, Virus Ti2 Desktop.
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OK, I am getting more of my ducks in order. I think this is my Rig #1 vs. Rig #2 comparison thinking:

 

Studio/Rig #1 - 4 Keyboards

Kurzweil Forte 7

Roland Fantom 7

Roland Jupiter X or Nord Wave 2. (J-X is ordered)

Yamaha YC61 or Nord Electro 6D 73

 

Studio/Rig #2 - 3 Keyboards

Nord Grand

Nord Stage Compact 3

Roland Fantom 6

 

 

Stands, cases, etc. have been figured in and my Legend Live organ and Native Instruments controller are not moving. Which gives you more GAS?

Yamaha U1 Upright, Roland Fantom 8, Nord Stage 4 HA73, Nord Wave 2, Korg Nautilus 73, Viscount Legend Live, Lots of Mainstage/VST Libraries

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Thoughts on scenario #1:

I'd lean toward the Nord Wave 2 over the Jupiter X because of less overlap with the Fantom, and in conjunction with that, I'd lean toward the YC61 over the Nord Electro for less overlap with the Nord Wave 2. (Also keeping in mind that you still have the Legend when you want total organ focus.) But these are just superficial leanings, and I understand where one could make arguments the other way as well.

 

Thoughts on scenario #2:

With a Nord Grand and a Viscount Legend in the stable, it looks like the big offering of the NS3 here is the synth... so maybe a Nord Wave 2 instead of a Stage 3 could make sense? My general feeling about the NS3 is that its a great gigging board because it gives you great piano, organ, and synth in a single lightweight board. But for studio, the NS3 to me starts to look like a jack of all trades, master of none. The Nord Grand gives you better piano, the Viscount presumably gives you better organ, and the Wave 2 is one of a number of boards that could give you stronger synth. (How about a Prophet X?)

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Brotha Jeff, I'm way late to this party but my recommendation would be to consolidate into the Fantom 7 and Nord Grand. Killer rig.

 

Modular enough for studio and/or stage however it's used in conjunction with the Legend Live and Native Instruments.

 

Boom. Drop the mic. ð¤£ð

PD

 

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy"

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AnotherScott - you totally get the tradeoffs.

 

But the reason I would put a Nord Stage 3 Compact into that list is that becomes the portable/take out of the house board. Pub room gigs, rehearsals, jam sessions on Tuesday night in a basement where you aren't dragging wheels and a 60 pound loaded case across your friend's living room floor while his wife looks at you in disgust for possibly scratching their floors and banging up their freshly painted walls going down to the basement..... That's where a YC61 or Electro goes for me and something has to do the bread and butter work at 22 pounds and change on the weight.

 

Prophet X is beautiful, unique, but it doesn't fit the budget hard limit for me. I thought the demos on youtube are very enjoyable but I never thought I would be a buyer for it. I'm very gracious that I have a chance to refresh my stuff and I only get to turn 50 once, so I am just trying to get the most utility at home and out of the home that I can and maximize my pleasure.

Yamaha U1 Upright, Roland Fantom 8, Nord Stage 4 HA73, Nord Wave 2, Korg Nautilus 73, Viscount Legend Live, Lots of Mainstage/VST Libraries

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Prof D - That's a great suggestion. The YC61 is within budget to add to that to carry around on-the-go.... Nord Grand, Fantom 7 and a YC61. Very flexible.

Yamaha U1 Upright, Roland Fantom 8, Nord Stage 4 HA73, Nord Wave 2, Korg Nautilus 73, Viscount Legend Live, Lots of Mainstage/VST Libraries

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Yhe YC61 is within budget to add to that to carry around on-the-go.... Nord Grand, Fantom 7 and a YC61. Very flexible.

Absolutely. :thu:

 

IMO, in addition to its other features, the Fantom 7 has enough "synthesizer" control on the front panel making it a better choice than a Jupe X.

 

I know a little bit about the 5-0 club having joined it back in November. Not too bad so far.ð

 

While I have always been a gear minmalist, not so much in terms of weight but mainly due to sounds, features and functionality available in today's technology, getting older has confimed that we can cover a lot of ground musically with a couple KBs.

 

The rest of it comes down to 1st world problems. :laugh::cool:

PD

 

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy"

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I figured Prophet X would be in budget because it was no more than the Numa Stage 3 Compact it was replacing... until you explained that the Nord would do double duty as a self-contained travel board. I agree, the YC61 can also fill that NS3 easy-to-transport-all-in-one role... if I was looking for a 61 for that role, it's likely that the YC61 would be my choice, especially if I wanted something with full organ drawbar control. That or the Vox Continental. I'm just a bit skittish about having only 61 keys on my only board.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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  • 1 month later...

I've actually wrapped up a lot of the decisions and ordering for my studio rebuild. It has ended up looking like this:

 

Stand #1 - the Studio Rig

Lower tier: Roland Fantom 8

Upper tier: Native Instrumens Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk2

 

Both of these will be integrated to Mainstage, Logic and Komplete Kontrol for home based studio and will put my Adam Audio 7" on the sides of the Fantom.

 

Stand #2 - The Stage Rig

Lower tier: Nord Stage 3 Compact

Upper tier: Roland Jupiter X

 

This setup will also be integrated to the same Mainstage setup as the Studio Rig through the Jupiter X digital interface. I'll have a laptop holder stand at the corner where both of these setups are lined up.

 

I also have my iPad connected to the Jupiter X through its Bluetooth pairing.

 

I have to pick up a Radial Key Largo, some new cases, cables, pedals, etc. and am waiting on K&M stands on backorder.

 

I have the Viscount Legend Live and my Alesis Sample Pro drum pad around and hooked up anytime I want to use them or gig with them if the situation ever comes up again, but I am keeping them.

 

I reluctantly sold my Kurzweil Forte 7, but it wasn't going to get the same level of use as the Fantom for my workflow and other tools, so that has left my ownership. (Sometimes we love some keyboards but can't keep everything).

 

Lastly, if my budget still permits when I'm done I may... just maybe... have enough cash left for this project to pick up a Roland Ax Edge keytar for fun if I buy carefully and find a good deal on an open box or B-stock type of find. It's a nice-to-have if I have the cash leftover but nothing I can't live without either.

Yamaha U1 Upright, Roland Fantom 8, Nord Stage 4 HA73, Nord Wave 2, Korg Nautilus 73, Viscount Legend Live, Lots of Mainstage/VST Libraries

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I may... pick up a Roland Ax Edge keytar for fun.

A blast to play, wonderful versatile customizable expressive controls, and bi*ch to program. Hint: it ain't a birch.

 

Bilch?

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I had some regret letting the Kurzweil Forte go, but I'll say this, the action on the Fantom 8 feels like a step up in luxury from the Fatar TP/40. Nothing against Fatar for my needs but Roland has a pretty great keybed in here that I think is the same one in the RD-2000. Call me pleasantly suprised at this.

 

It is also huge - dimension and weight wise, but extremely solid and playable for a home studio centerpiece 88 hammer action.

Yamaha U1 Upright, Roland Fantom 8, Nord Stage 4 HA73, Nord Wave 2, Korg Nautilus 73, Viscount Legend Live, Lots of Mainstage/VST Libraries

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