delmar Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 Last weekend I was scrolling Facebook (I only scan it briefly once a week to see friends' posts and a Kontakt group) and I come across an ad for a drum shop that's going out of business and selling all their drum kits for $99. My jaw dropped and all my common sense went out the window. I have no other excuse, but the ad said they couldn't pay their rent and wanted to see people making good use of musical instruments during these trying times...I picked out two kits worth a total of $3600 on Sweetwater and gave them my name, address, email, phone number and paid with Paypal. Only later doing my due diligence, finding out the company had complaints against it, and getting a receipt with a tracking number that showed a delivery date of...the day before I paid for it. I filed a dispute with Paypal...second mistake. Apparently you get one chance per transaction. Paypal responded by telling me I willingly paid them and closed the case, never to be reopened. Their phones and messaging are down, their Facebook page won't respond. I'm dealing with my bank now, and froze my credit for good measure. Dumb, dumb, dumb. Don't be like me, kids. On a related note, I hate Paypal now. Not too fond of the idea of putting more money into the Paypal Mafia's little fingers. On the other hand, I have my doubts that Google Pay is owned by a sweet little old lady from Pasadena. Is there an alternative you folks like? Edit: the evil scammer's website: https://www.duanxiandaren.com/ Caution: DO NOT BUY if that's somehow not clear! Edit #2: A Facebook page from the drum shop that was impersonated. Shows the ad my dumb ass fell for, but with an additional price drop! https://www.facebook.com/thedrumshopmaine123/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Mike Metlay Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 There's a reason why I never keep more than a couple hundred dollars in my PayPal account and I never use it for large transactions with anyone I don't know personally or have verified reliably. People get burned all the time by firms that they think have their best interests at heart. Folks who complain about the higher prices and commission skimming at Reverb.com have never had to dispute a bad buyer on Ebay. Their system is totally slanted in favor of buyers; if a bad buyer pulls a scam on you, you're basically hosed. Reverb at least tries to balance buyer and seller concerns in disputes. Quote Dr. Mike Metlay (PhD in nuclear physics, golly gosh) Musician, Author, Editor, Educator, Impresario, Online Radio Guy, Cut-Rate Polymath, and Kindly Pedant Editor-in-Chief, Bjooks ~ Author of SYNTH GEMS 1 clicky!: more about me ~ my radio station (and my fam) ~ my local tribe ~ my day job ~ my book ~ my music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docbop Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 eBay used to favor the sellers, but too many scammed buyers so they reverse everything. You think by now they'd realize they need to find the middle so both sides have protections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KuruPrionz Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 Be persistent, expect to be waiting on the phone. Keep after Paypal, when you get an automated response always try dialing 0 for Operator, it often will bring an actual human into play. Be brief but concise with whoever you speak with, also be very polite and calm. Once you've explained your situation and the party on the other line has responded, ask to speak to their manager. The call is recorded, they cannot refuse. Repeat, get up the chain of command. Paypal does not empower their labor force, it takes somebody higher up to make things happen. I've been on eBay as a seller and buyer since 2000 and have 886 feedback at 100% positive. I've dealt with a couple of disasters, mostly caused by eBay but I had to deal with Paypal too. Eventually, I got everything that a company should do for somebody who has been wronged. It took a couple of days of persistent pretending to be nice but it was worth it. Quote It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delmar Posted July 16, 2020 Author Share Posted July 16, 2020 Maybe they should require videos of items being packed and boxes being opened or automatic decision against them, buyer or seller, in case of dispute. What a world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delmar Posted July 16, 2020 Author Share Posted July 16, 2020 Be persistent, expect to be waiting on the phone. Keep after Paypal, when you get an automated response always try dialing 0 for Operator, it often will bring an actual human into play. Be brief but concise with whoever you speak with, also be very polite and calm. Once you've explained your situation and the party on the other line has responded, ask to speak to their manager. The call is recorded, they cannot refuse. Repeat, get up the chain of command. Paypal does not empower their labor force, it takes somebody higher up to make things happen. I've been on eBay as a seller and buyer since 2000 and have 886 feedback at 100% positive. I've dealt with a couple of disasters, mostly caused by eBay but I had to deal with Paypal too. Eventually, I got everything that a company should do for somebody who has been wronged. It took a couple of days of persistent pretending to be nice but it was worth it. Oh, Paypal says their phone banks are down for the coronavirus. I was in the middle of filling out the message box when it disappeared and I got a message saying messaging was unavailable at this time. If you try to open a dispute, you get a list of transactions to choose from. Mine's closed, as I said. Further opening not possible. A Reddit user told me that's where I messed up, though my initial claim stated my case clearly. My bank is sending me a form to fill out. They seemed sympathetic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
confidence Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 Easy mistake. I think online commerce has become so smooth and taken for granted now that it's easy not to even notice you're doing it, being on both sides of various transactions all the time on Amazon, Ebay etc. Most of the time it works so well, that you can easily forget that due diligence is necessary. I've had a couple of experiences like this. Funny thing was, afterwards I looked back at the site concerned and it seemed so obvious that it was a scam. But when you're buying stuff you're just in a frame of mind of "buying stuff" that carries you along because it's something you do all the time. You could try persevering with PayPal but for 200 bucks, at a certain point you'll need to consider how much your time is worth and when it's time to just chalk it up as the cost of a learning experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xKnuckles Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 Bad luck Delmar. Not dumb - these scams are clever and designed in such a way that any of us could fall for them. I hope you are able to recover your money. Quote "Turn your fingers into a dust rag and keep them keys clean!" Bluzeyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xKnuckles Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 Thanks for the PayPal advice KuruPrionz. I have filed it away in case I ever need it.... Quote "Turn your fingers into a dust rag and keep them keys clean!" Bluzeyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 If something seems to good to be true? It usually is! Consider yourself lucky that they have not cleared out your savings! Quote Col Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KuruPrionz Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 Poop in a box and mail it to them? Quote It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Williams Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 Poop in a box and mail it to them? Naw. The mailing address is almost certainly fake. If they're from another state within the USA, it might be worthwhile to call the state AG's consumer protection office. Quote -Tom Williams {First Name} {at} AirNetworking {dot} com PC4-7, PX-5S, AX-Edge, PC361 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markyboard Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 I know it too late but in case you or anyone else is unaware using a credit card protects you from this kind of fraud. You file a dispute (in this case for goods never received), the CC company reimburses you almost immediately while waiting a typical 60 day period for the seller to respond. If they don't respond it's the CC company's problem. Doesn't cost anything, doesn't affect your credit and it's really easy. They may ask for supporting docs and such if the seller fights the dispute but for something like this it's not going to happen. I'm not aware of any advantage using Paypal over a CC when given the choice. Btw I did something equally stupid last year trying to save half off ($35) on an AC condenser cleaner spray bottle. Totally fraudulent website that seemed so obvious after a week went by and I hadn't even gotten confirmation of my order. Sorry this happened to you. It's often not jusy about the money, but more that feeling of violation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bif_ Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 Regarding Paypal and credit cards, if I use Paypal for any transaction other than with friends, I use my credit card within Paypal. If Paypal won't protect me, the CC company will. Quote Kurzweil Forte, Yamaha Motif ES7, Muse Receptor 2 Pro Max, Neo Ventilator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delmar Posted July 17, 2020 Author Share Posted July 17, 2020 Yeah, as my account is linked to my bank I am pretty sure my bank is going to make it right. Thanks everyone for the encouraging words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigJPatton Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 Yeah, don't blame PayPal, they're just a money transaction service and they did their job, if they were to reverse charges easily scammers would be all over it, better this way, use your bank or CC to protect you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iconoclast Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 In retrospect I'm thinking it's foreign, maybe Chinese because of the duanXIANdaren. The english on the page has that "translated literally to engrish" feel to it. Quote You want me to start this song too slow or too fast? Forte7, Nord Stage 3, XK3c, OB-6, Arturia Collection, Mainstage, MotionSound KBR3D. A bunch of MusicMan Guitars, Line6 stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melving Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 Yup. Website registered in China. On behalf of Chinese people everywhere, I apologize. Type in website address to this looker upper... https://ipinfo.info/html/ip_checker.php One time a Russian guy hacked an 80 yo friend of mine, asking for money from his email address. I complained to yandex, I think it was, and they gave me the cold shoulder... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Music Bird Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 The site"s name translates to 'short term adults" so I knew something wasn"t quite right when I saw the name. Those are not selling drums, they will most likely sell you something small first like a bottle opener or a bag full of beads and move on to bigger more troublesome stuff like impersonation and ID theft. Quote Yamaha MX49, Casio SK1/WK-7600, Korg Minilogue, Alesis SR-16, Casio CT-X3000, FL Studio, many VSTs, percussion, woodwinds, strings, and sound effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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