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Help me find a Light Hammer action


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or a balanced action bottom board. Wanting a 73/6 format. Budget around 3k. Sold my CP73, I liked the action on, but couldn't live with the sounds. Left hand injury/surgery made heavy hammer weighted keys painful. I have read good things here about the Vox Continental and the Kurzweil Forte7. There are no stores nearby to try so I hope others can help with some ideas.

Grandstage 73

Kronos2 61

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"...Hammer action or balanced action..."? The term "balanced" tends to refer to hammer actions. If you are thinking about the Vox Continental then that's not a hammer action of any kind.

 

I found the Kawai ES110 to have a very nice light hammer action, but that's 88-note only. Of the 73s/76s, I find Korg (Kronos, GrandStage, SV1/2, LP380...) heavy and spongy, and the Fatar TP100 (Nord, Studiologic, Dexibell...) just weird - as well as heavy. Kurzweil's Forte7 (with the Fatar TP40L action) is very nice, but pricey.

 

If it absolutely has to be 73/76, then it's easier to add sounds to an action you like than the opposite. Ipad (or ipod touch) alongside a CP73 (or P121?) is another option.

 

Cheers, Mike.

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I was surprised to find the RH3 action not spongy, heavy or sluggish on the GrandStage73. It could be due to a slightly shallower dip. I know a good many players here disagree, but having arthritis showing up in my thumb joints aggravated by every other hammer action out there, this particular RH3 is a joy.

 

The OP knows Korg, and it"s 2/3 of the budget.

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Rod

Here for the gear.

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Biggles, Which Nord are you thinking about? The Nord Stage 3 HP76 ? I heard the action was heavy.

Nord, there are options on models around your budget

 

Korg Kronos 73, a bit more than budget

Love the Kronos sounds, I have a 61.

Grandstage 73

Kronos2 61

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I was surprised to find the RH3 action not spongy, heavy or sluggish on the GrandStage73. It could be due to a slightly shallower dip. I know a good many players here disagree, but having arthritis showing up in my thumb joints aggravated by every other hammer action out there, this particular RH3 is a joy.

I have heard this about the the GS73 action, the RH3 keybed is lighter on the GS73 than SV2. It looks like a contender.

Can anyone else comment about their GrandStage action?

Grandstage 73

Kronos2 61

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I was surprised to find the RH3 action not spongy, heavy or sluggish on the GrandStage73. It could be due to a slightly shallower dip. I know a good many players here disagree, but having arthritis showing up in my thumb joints aggravated by every other hammer action out there, this particular RH3 is a joy.

 

I have heard this about the the GS73 action, the RH3 keybed is lighter on the GS73 than SV2. It looks like a contender.

Can anyone else comment about their GrandStage action?

 

You might want to reach out to Josh Paxton (SV2 thread) for experience with both.

____________________________________
Rod

Here for the gear.

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I tried a Grandstage 73 and Kronos 73 in a shop recently and absolutely loved the action. I would call them on the lighter side of piano-action boards. Conducive to controlled, expressive playing but no real effort and before long I just forgot about them and enjoyed playing. Funnily enough, they also had an SV-2 there, I had a brief play and did think it was a bit heavier, but I thought it must have been my imagination as I know they use the same action. Maybe I was actually right and it's tweaked differently.
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"...Hammer action or balanced action..."? The term "balanced" tends to refer to hammer actions. If you are thinking about the Vox Continental then that's not a hammer action of any kind.

I think he"s talking about graded vs balanced hammer actions.

Yamaha: Motif XF8, MODX7, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, PSS-470 | Roland: Fantom 7, JV-1000

Kurzweil: PC3-76, PC4 (88) | Hammond: SK Pro 73 | Korg: Triton LE 76, N1R, X5DR | Emu: Proteus/1 | Casio: CT-370 | Novation: Launchkey 37 MK3 | Technics: WSA1R

Former: Emu Proformance Plus & Mo'Phatt, Korg Krome 61, Roland Fantom XR & JV-1010, Yamaha MX61, Behringer CAT

Assorted electric & acoustic guitars and electric basses | Roland TD-17 KVX | Alesis SamplePad Pro | Assorted organs, accordions, other instruments

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Can anyone else comment about their GrandStage action?

I"ve played for about an hour on the Grandstage 88; it"s not the heaviest out there. A little plasticky for my liking if I recall correctly, but on the lighter side. I"m a fan of the Kawai ES8 action, but that"s only an 88.

 

There really isn"t a whole lot in the hammer 73/76 category that I know of aside from the previously mentioned Forte 7, Kronos 73, Grandstage 73, Electro and Stage variants, and CP73 models. The P121 isn"t as good as the CP73 even. If you could do with an 88 there are a lot more options.

 

What didn"t you like about the CP"s sounds?

Yamaha: Motif XF8, MODX7, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, PSS-470 | Roland: Fantom 7, JV-1000

Kurzweil: PC3-76, PC4 (88) | Hammond: SK Pro 73 | Korg: Triton LE 76, N1R, X5DR | Emu: Proteus/1 | Casio: CT-370 | Novation: Launchkey 37 MK3 | Technics: WSA1R

Former: Emu Proformance Plus & Mo'Phatt, Korg Krome 61, Roland Fantom XR & JV-1010, Yamaha MX61, Behringer CAT

Assorted electric & acoustic guitars and electric basses | Roland TD-17 KVX | Alesis SamplePad Pro | Assorted organs, accordions, other instruments

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I was surprised to find the RH3 action not spongy, heavy or sluggish on the GrandStage73. It could be due to a slightly shallower dip. I know a good many players here disagree, but having arthritis showing up in my thumb joints aggravated by every other hammer action out there, this particular RH3 is a joy.

I have heard this about the the GS73 action, the RH3 keybed is lighter on the GS73 than SV2. It looks like a contender.

Can anyone else comment about their GrandStage action?

 

Yes, Grandstage RH3 is lighter than RH3 on SV1/SV2. Not the most "piano like", but very light and fast. And has a long pivot (which means consistent front-to-back action) if you care about that.

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BThe Nord Stage 3 HP76 ? I heard the action was heavy.

Love the Kronos sounds, I have a 61.

 

The HP76 (Hammer Portable) is Fatar's TP100. You'll want lighter action than that.

 

The Nord Stage 2's HA76 (Hammer Action) has the TP40L ("light") keybed. I found it just a little bit lighter than the Forte 7's TP40 action.

 

The great thing on the Stage 2 is that you also have 3 more Dynamics level choices -- each one making it progressively easier to hit max velocity.

 

Normal

Dynamics 1 - slightly easier to hit max velocity

Dynamics 2 - even easier to hit max

Dynamics 3 - easiest to hit max

 

In other words, for your left hand, you can set the response to Dynamics 3 to play lightly and still hit the loudest piano notes. Gradually, as your left hand gets stronger, you can ease down to Dyn 2, then Dyn 1, then back to normal, until your hand regains full strength. Even then at Normal the keybed is a joy to play.

 

And that's separate for the velocity curves you can set for its 2 External channels. The Organ section also has a low / high trigger option.

 

And the Stage 2 can download the latest pianos as Nord offers more upgrades. The latest is the White Grand, and I've got the Large versions of it and the Silver, as well as a couple other Medium grands.

 

I got lucky and found a Nord Stage 2 HA76 for just around $2k last year, soft case included. Maybe you could get lucky if you're a little patient.

 

I have to say the Stage 2 is a great match for the Kronos 61. I hooked up all my pianos so I could test play them from the Stage 2 keybed. Of the various pianos on a Kronos, PX5S, Integra, Forte, and MODX7 (tested stock pianos only), I liked the Stage 2 pianos best by far. The Stage 2's synth is pretty strong sounding as well.... a nice addition to the K's VA engines.

 

It took quite a bit of research and a couple near misses to finally land on a great 76 key action board to pair with my 61 key Kronos. The Forte 7 was a close runner-up, but the Stage 2 won out due to being lighter, smaller, same or better action, and much cheaper to boot. HTH

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Can anyone else comment about their GrandStage action?

I"ve played for about an hour on the Grandstage 88; it"s not the heaviest out there. A little plasticky for my liking if I recall correctly, but on the lighter side. I"m a fan of the Kawai ES8 action, but that"s only an 88.

 

There really isn"t a whole lot in the hammer 73/76 category that I know of aside from the previously mentioned Forte 7, Kronos 73, Grandstage 73, Electro and Stage variants, and CP73 models. The P121 isn"t as good as the CP73 even. If you could do with an 88 there are a lot more options.

 

I wanted to stay in the 73 key size format, but the Forte 7 is pricey. The GrandStage 73 looks good. If I go with a 88, what can you recommend with a light action?

 

What didn"t you like about the CP"s sounds?

 

The Cp's AP's sounded dull and mid compressed, lacking dynamics, when comparing with the Kronos 61.

Grandstage 73

Kronos2 61

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Biggles, Which Nord are you thinking about? The Nord Stage 3 HP76 ? I heard the action was heavy.
Nord, there are options on models around your budget

 

Korg Kronos 73, a bit more than budget

Love the Kronos sounds, I have a 61.

 

There are a few models in your price band and those that I have tried have not had heavy actions,

Col

 

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What didn"t you like about the CP"s sounds?

 

The Cp's AP's sounded dull and mid compressed, lacking dynamics, when comparing with the Kronos 61.

 

"Dull and mid compressed, lacking dynamics."

 

That's an apt description of how I perceived the MODX pianos. But they polish up pretty well with FX and in context. Maybe the Montage does better justice with improved DACs?

 

The Integra SN-A pianos weren't quite as compressed, but more boxy. The Kronos pianos (at least the factory presets) are more realistic, and of course much more tweakable.

 

Still, all the variations I tried (including the non-SGX types) are noticeably dull and compressed compared to most of the Nord pianos, esp the White Grand. There's just something eminently playable about the Nord pianos. Don't take my word... you owe it to yourself to hear and experience for yourself how it feels and sounds.

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Marino's suggestion of the SL Studio range unfortunately uses the TP100 action, which is heavy and unforgiving imho. I spent some time with its predecessor (Acuna) and had to dial the sensitivity up to 2 (scale 1 - most sensitive - to 10 - least sensitive) to get something halfway playable. At which point, getting anything quieter than mp was a challenge. Tried the SL studio in-store and no change, unfortuately.

 

Shame because the specs and the price were right.

 

Cheers, Mike.

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Someone already said it, but if you're going to be picky about both your piano sounds and your light-weighted hammer action 73-note keyboard, then you should probably be considering software pianos. Otherwise the field of candidates is very narrow. Why be so limited in your choices?

 

The P121 action isn't my favorite of all hammer weighted action, but in my mind it compares favorably to RH3. The P121 feels roughly the same as the action in the more expensive CP73. Maybe the actions are not identical, but they're very similar. The 2-way USB audio simplifies an IOS connection. An ipad mini in its magnetic apple folding case will stick to one of the side speaker grills, making it ergonomically easy and efficient.

Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro

Home: Vintage Vibe 64

 

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or a balanced action bottom board. Wanting a 73/6 format. Budget around 3k. Sold my CP73, I liked the action on, but couldn't live with the sounds. Left hand injury/surgery made heavy hammer weighted keys painful. I have read good things here about the Vox Continental and the Kurzweil Forte7. There are no stores nearby to try so I hope others can help with some ideas.

Yes, I think Forte 7 is probably the lightest feeling 7x-key hammer action board. If you end up deciding that all hammer action boards are feeling too heavy for you, the Vox Continental 73 is among the best non-hammer boards for piano playing. I haven't tried the new Roland Fantom 7.

 

Balanced vs. graded is just about whether all the keys feel the same (balanced) of or if the feeling changes from the low notes to the high. It does not tell you how heavy an action will feel overall. Almost all non-hammer actions are balanced, though. Hammer actions are more of a mix.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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BThe Nord Stage 3 HP76 ? I heard the action was heavy.

Love the Kronos sounds, I have a 61.

 

The HP76 (Hammer Portable) is Fatar's TP100. You'll want lighter action than that.

 

The Nord Stage 2's HA76 (Hammer Action) has the TP40L ("light") keybed. I found it just a little bit lighter than the Forte 7's TP40 action.

 

The great thing on the Stage 2 is that you also have 3 more Dynamics level choices -- each one making it progressively easier to hit max velocity.

 

Normal

Dynamics 1 - slightly easier to hit max velocity

Dynamics 2 - even easier to hit max

Dynamics 3 - easiest to hit max

 

In other words, for your left hand, you can set the response to Dynamics 3 to play lightly and still hit the loudest piano notes. Gradually, as your left hand gets stronger, you can ease down to Dyn 2, then Dyn 1, then back to normal, until your hand regains full strength. Even then at Normal the keybed is a joy to play.

 

And that's separate for the velocity curves you can set for its 2 External channels. The Organ section also has a low / high trigger option.

 

And the Stage 2 can download the latest pianos as Nord offers more upgrades. The latest is the White Grand, and I've got the Large versions of it and the Silver, as well as a couple other Medium grands.

 

I got lucky and found a Nord Stage 2 HA76 for just around $2k last year, soft case included. Maybe you could get lucky if you're a little patient.

 

I have to say the Stage 2 is a great match for the Kronos 61. I hooked up all my pianos so I could test play them from the Stage 2 keybed. Of the various pianos on a Kronos, PX5S, Integra, Forte, and MODX7 (tested stock pianos only), I liked the Stage 2 pianos best by far. The Stage 2's synth is pretty strong sounding as well.... a nice addition to the K's VA engines.

 

It took quite a bit of research and a couple near misses to finally land on a great 76 key action board to pair with my 61 key Kronos. The Forte 7 was a close runner-up, but the Stage 2 won out due to being lighter, smaller, same or better action, and much cheaper to boot. HTH

 

The Nord Stage 2 HA76 sounds like a good fit for me. I will start looking to find one. Like you said, the sameTP40L keybed, as in the highly recommended Forte 7, sounds good to me. Thanks for your help in finding another board with a light hammer action I am looking for. Still going to look for a new or used Forte 7 as well, and try the GrandStage 73 as others recommended.

Grandstage 73

Kronos2 61

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The Nord Stage 2 HA76 sounds like a good fit for me. I will start looking to find one. Like you said, the sameTP40L keybed, as in the highly recommended Forte 7, sounds good to me.
Forte uses TP40L, there is some question as to which TP40 Nord used. I thought it felt heavier than the L (so probably the M), but as you see, Psionic 11 had a different experience. Maybe there is some unit to unit variation here.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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...Maybe there is some unit to unit variation here.

I can vouch for unit to unit variation. Right now I have two Nord Stage 3 88s side by side in my music room. One is an early unit, bought when the Stage 3 came out, the other is brand new, a 'Rev B". According to Nord, they have identical keybeds, TP40M, and are sonically identical. But they feel very different. The earlier one feels lighter and more responsive, and I can play it for hours. The new one feels noticeably heavier, somewhat tiring to play after a while. I"ll be sending the new one back.

I would like to apologize to anyone I have not yet offended. Please be patient and I will get to you shortly.
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If you're planning on gigging with your piano board, consider that the Forte 7 is rather cumbersome.... about 16" deep and 42 pounds heavy. And that's without a hard case, which is itself a significant block, especially considering the hard case's weight, space, and transporting issues. And where are you going to tuck it away during the gig?

 

The Stage 2 initially might seem about the same, at 36 pounds and 13" deep. However, I'm a fairly strong guy, and moving that Forte was a grunting eye-opening effort, while the Stage 2 is more manageable. Those 6 pounds really make a difference, especially as the Nord's weight is balanced... the Forte is back-heavy and back-breaking. Keep that in mind if you get a chance to try them out personally.

 

The Stage 2 also has a custom soft case with wheels and collapsible luggage-style handle. Much easier to transport. And much easier to tuck away behind the drummer or bass rig, or by a table or jukebox, what have you. The soft case is also damn expensive, but probably a hard sell if someone has just the case. I'd try bargaining and getting the soft case thrown into the overall price if possible.

 

The Vox Continental 73 is 19 pounds, for reference. Haven't tried one out, but looks like it has the same LED-style organ drawbars as the Stage 2. Keyboard range is E-to-E. Good enough for most work. There's only a few instances where the 76-key E-to-G range is missed... anything needing a low D or Eb but also needing a high G or Gb or F... for me that's Debussy's Clair de Lune, one of Beethoven's Adagio Cantabile, and Monk's 'Round Midnight.

 

HTH

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The Vox Continental 73 is 19 pounds, for reference. Haven't tried one out, but looks like it has the same LED-style organ drawbars as the Stage 2.
On the Stage, you adjust the drawbar levels with up and down buttons located beneath the LED striips. On the Vox, you touch the LED strip itself.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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I got a secondhand Nord Stage Classic about 18 months ago, for very similar reasons. Decent action, not *too* heavy, 7x form factor. The only competition at the time was the Forte 7, which was a lot of cash and extra weight for a lot more board than I would use.

 

If your only requirement is piano, then a Stage Classic or EX might suit just as well as a Stage 2. (Avoid the 2EX with its HP action). You could do what I do and use it purely as controller, and use it to play your Kronos pianos.

 

Cheers, Mike.

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I got a secondhand Nord Stage Classic about 18 months ago, for very similar reasons. Decent action, not *too* heavy, 7x form factor. The only competition at the time was the Forte 7, which was a lot of cash and extra weight for a lot more board than I would use.

 

If your only requirement is piano, then a Stage Classic or EX might suit just as well as a Stage 2. (Avoid the 2EX with its HP action). You could do what I do and use it purely as controller, and use it to play your Kronos pianos.

 

Cheers, Mike.

 

Might be off-topic, but a really cool thing about the weighted key Nord Stage models is that you can activate high trigger point for organ. Makes a huge difference when trying to apply organ technique to weighted keys. I found it didn't work as well on the models using TP100 because that particular action requires a lot of pressure at the trigger point. But for weighted key models using other Fatar actions, it went a long way to help for organ chops.

Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro

Home: Vintage Vibe 64

 

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A light hammer-action......

 

Obviously there is no such thing, but I think he really means "a substancial synth action"

 

Fatar TP8S. Comes on a bunch of synths, if you find that data base of keyboard actions. Hard to beat.

 

You can get the action alone these days for a pretty low price.

 

http://www.fatar.com/Pages/TP_8S.htm

 

Note one unusual word in the description for synth actions: "weighted."

 

So maybe a better description of the action: "weighted synth action" = light hammer.

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