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New Clonewheel: DMC-122, Mojo or Legend?


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... have narrowed my choice (based on various critera) down to the Mojo classic, Viscount Legend Live or DMC-122 + Gemini expansion - all of which are about the same price.

 

Why did you choose a Mojo Classic as a part of the selection ?

I don´t know anyone here in the forum or elsewhere owning one or having ANY experience w/ this instrument.

I tried to find more info about it since weeks and can´t find any except the Crumar teasers.

I´m not negative at all because I appreciate Crumar now goes the DSP route also for the 2 manual Mojo !

But hope alone is not everything !

 

I had a play on a single manual Mojo the other day and LOVED it. They had a Hammond XK-1c as well which I tried and, while both sounded great, I much prefered the lighter action of the Mojo.

 

O.k., that tells me, you´re willing to accept a single manual clone as well when it´s soundwise satisfying,- no ?

 

My understanding from forum posts is that the Legend would have a similar great sound and look-and-feel, but has a stiffer action. Is that right? How "Hammond-like" does it feel playing the Legend?

 

Well, always trying to find the right clone for myself, for me the last question is "which clone offers the smallest amount of latency" and consequently "best" finger- to- ear connection.

It´s very hard to find out when not being able to order everything the same time and have some time to check out and compare directly.

I only remember,- when "Legend" was a "KeyB",- at least Jim Alfredson reported some for him kind of "unaccepatble" latency when using one for a gig.

 

Now, I dunno which DSPs are in use in a Viscount Legend and/or Mojo Classic.

Who says there´s the same DSP in Gemini, Mojo61 and now,- Classic ?

We simply don´t know.

So,- all the comparisons above mentioning Mojo61 or "dual manual Mojo" are worthless.

We also dunno what will come for Mojo Classic in future,- p.ex. if there´s now some DSP headroom left to implement all the features the Mojo61 offers already,- or if ALL the DSP power is now concentrated on the tonewheel-, C/V- and Leslie emulations.

 

For me, personally and actually, the best solution might be to buy a Viscount Legend Solo,- offering 2 sets of drawbars and 4 presets for "upper manual" alone, as also 4 presets for "lower manual" (and the option to use 1 set of drawbars for lower manual in addition).

It´s the cheapest solution w/ the best "count of preset" relation,- except you buy the fully fledged "Legend".

 

But,- w/ the haptics you get w/ Legend Solo,- as also the included connectivity in the sense of FX send/return (not available in any Crumar) and the ADDITIONAL "FX input" (= input to rotary sim),- you´d have a lot of options when buying a Keyboardpartner/Diversi HX3 Expander in addition !

HX3 uses FPGA and to my knowledge, this is what offers almost NO latency !

And the latest HX3 board is reported being great incl. overdrive and leslie sim.

 

The real gimmick is,- w/ "Legend" you get a different overdrive and leslie sim,- and all the haptics, being VERY close to the "real deal",- even some are "miniaturized".

It´s matter of taste, but some say "Legend" has better C/V and Leslie sim for jazz,- while other´s report HX3 overdrive and leslie sim is way better for rock.

 

I didn´t make a decision too,- but more and more, I come to the conclusion, owning both is a good and affordable solution vs. ordering p.ex. a MAG custom organ or UHL (having haptics, but not at right place),- BOTH offering HX3 only and indirectly forcing you to pay for a Neo Vent being built in.

I really hate that because I think, WHEN a physical model offers overdrive, a C/V and leslie sim,- they should be good enough and not need a 3rd party product in addition.

 

So, when not being satisfied (p.ex. !) w/ the HX3 OD and leslie sim just because you´re a jazz afficonado,- there´s the chance to route HX3 thru Legends "FX input" (means thru it´s rotary sim).

 

I also like, Legend´s FX send/return, allowing insertion of real wah-pedal, ringmodulator, chorus/phaser and compressor to get "classic" sound being used in ancient rock music.

 

Actually I don´t recognize Mojo Classic offers any of the features in regards of FX being available from "Burn" and/or additional instruments,- well known from Mojo61,- and being assignable to a separate manual, may it be "upper" or "lower".

 

But that´s all only me.

 

:)

 

A.C.

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... have narrowed my choice (based on various critera) down to the Mojo classic, Viscount Legend Live or DMC-122 + Gemini expansion - all of which are about the same price.

 

Why did you choose a Mojo Classic as a part of the selection ?

 

Because I specifically want two manuals and at least two sets of drawbars. I believe (could be wrong?) that the two manual mojo XT is discontinued now. Mojo 61 + optional lower manual won't do because it only has one set of drawbars. That leaves the Mojo classic.

 

I had a play on a single manual Mojo the other day and LOVED it. They had a Hammond XK-1c as well which I tried and, while both sounded great, I much prefered the lighter action of the Mojo.

 

O.k., that tells me, you´re willing to accept a single manual clone as well when it´s soundwise satisfying,- no ?

 

No, that's not what I meant.

 

I meant that since I loved the action and sound of the single-manual Mojo, I'd probably love the dual-manual one too. I haven't managed to find a dual manual to play on so the single i all I have to go by. But I definitely want a dual.

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Here comes my knee jerk reaction...

 

Forget about presets for Hammond. On a real organ, they only save drawbar settings anyway and nothing else. Two sets of drawbars are useful so you can cue up your next registration, but there's no substitute for learning to manipulate drawbars. With a little practice you can change registrations in a split second.

Moe

---

 

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And here's my knee jerk reaction...

 

Which manufacturer better supports their instrument after the sale? Whose service network is more robust? Is it worth trading off a few features for improved reliability?

9 Moog things, 3 Roland things, 2 Hammond things and a computer with stuff on it

 

 

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Why did you choose a Mojo Classic as a part of the selection ?

I don´t know anyone here in the forum or elsewhere owning one or having ANY experience w/ this instrument.

 

I saw today that Thomann has them in stock. None have been shipped to the USA at this point. Something about a global pandemic...

:nopity:
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Here comes my knee jerk reaction...

 

Forget about presets for Hammond. On a real organ, they only save drawbar settings anyway and nothing else. Two sets of drawbars are useful so you can cue up your next registration, but there's no substitute for learning to manipulate drawbars. With a little practice you can change registrations in a split second.

 

Yeah, I've pretty much come round theoretically to that way of thinking, it's just it won't really "gel" for me until I have the instrument to play on. Which is stupid really because that's exactly how it works with the piano. If I'm playing an acoustic piano sound on a gig I don't obssess over being able to recall five different-sounding presets for different songs or sections of a song. I find the sound I like and play it. I suppose I've never really questioned that because I transitioned gradually from playing classical acoustic piano to electronic piano emulations. But somewhere along the line my brain put the Hammond in the category of all those things I recall with very detailed presets on a case-by-case basis. It's interesting that the people who have grown up playing real Hammonds find this just as foreign as I do with the piano.

 

I think one reason I enjoyed playing the Mojo in the store so much was because this penny finally dropped, and I found the experience of playing all the drawbars and other controls on the fly, along with the notes, so immersive.

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And here's my knee jerk reaction...

 

Which manufacturer better supports their instrument after the sale? Whose service network is more robust? Is it worth trading off a few features for improved reliability?

 

I don't know the answer to that question. Viscount is the much larger company so I suppose one would have to assume there's less risk there.

 

I've read of people having problems with Mojos getting damaged en route from Italy to America, but I'm in the UK so that's not such an issue. Should probably make sure I order before Brexit D-Day though. :(

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This thread has been really helpful. Thanks everyone.

 

I'm leaning towards Mojo or Legend rather than DMC. Sometimes you just need to accept which combinations of features can't be found in the same box, and put some aside for a different box. I'm not going to get something that's an easy-playing holistically-designed Hammond and a comprehensive flexible MIDI controller as well. As I'm primarily looking for the first here, I'll put the second aside and get something else to do that down the line if need be.

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Why did you choose a Mojo Classic as a part of the selection ?

Is there some reason you would prefer its XT predecessor? It seems like the Classic has the updated Mojo61 guts, and improved aesthetics/ergonomics. So I'll flip the question, why NOT the Classic? I do see one advantage to the XT, though, it appears to weigh 1 kg less.

 

Forget about presets for Hammond. On a real organ, they only save drawbar settings anyway and nothing else. Two sets of drawbars are useful so you can cue up your next registration, but there's no substitute for learning to manipulate drawbars.

Yeah, that's kind of the converse of my other post... I suggested that having two sets of drawbars (for one manual) is probably not so important on a board with a bunch of presets, but then similarly, as you suggest here, having a bunch of presets is probably not so important to a player who is really comfortable with drawbar manipulation, especially on a board with two sets of drawbars per manual.

 

I'm leaning towards Mojo or Legend rather than DMC. Sometimes you just need to accept which combinations of features can't be found in the same box, and put some aside for a different box. I'm not going to get something that's an easy-playing holistically-designed Hammond and a comprehensive flexible MIDI controller as well. As I'm primarily looking for the first here, I'll put the second aside and get something else to do that down the line if need be.

Based on all you've said, I think you'll be happy this way. Just for completeness, I'll mention that the Hammond SKX kind of splits the difference... operationally, it's closer to a dedicated clone than the DMC is, but it still has 3-zone MIDI controller functions (and a bunch of extra sounds). But it's still a compromise in authenticity in "look and feel."

 

Getting back to the thought that started this post, in context of "get something else to do that down the line if need be" -- an advantage of the Legends OR Mojo Classic over the XT is that clear top panel. Not just as a surface to put things on, but also it means that if you want to consider putting something UNDER the organ, the deepest organ controls won't be so far away from you as they would be on the XT. In fact, putting a board under your 2-manual clone was just discussed at https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/3050913/stand-for-riding-an-skx-mojo-over-a-slab-piano

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Why did you choose a Mojo Classic as a part of the selection ?

Is there some reason you would prefer its XT predecessor? It seems like the Classic has the updated Mojo61 guts, and improved aesthetics/ergonomics. So I'll flip the question, why NOT the Classic? I do see one advantage to the XT, though, it appears to weigh 1 kg less.

 

That´s not the point,- it was not available even Thoman had it on display since many weeks,- so no user experience at all.

Main improvement is new DSP system vs. old 2-man Mojo.

No word about extra instruments and FX from Mojo61.

All the other clones are available and there ARE user experiences available too.

 

Presets for Hammond clones:

 

They help when using the organ in a multi-keyboard rig where "the other hand" is always busy w/ something else.

I also prefer single manual clones in such rigs, except, the organ would be the main axe.

 

HX3 doesn´t store drawbar settings only,- they have a different preset system, differenciating between "upper" and "lower" manual presets (storing drawbar settings only) and a few "common" presets (storing all tabs).

So, you can switch upper- and lower- (drawbar-) presets on the fly while you started from a common preset which stored a given setting of drawbars, percussion and C/V tabs.

You can recall THAT common preset on the fly (quasi "undo") and/or switch back ´n force between your actuall "live" settings (preset #0) and the "common" nad other preset options mentioned above.

 

It might be a bit fussy dealing w/ the limited amount of preset buttons, but there´s MIDI too,- which I´d prefer in a multi-keyboard rig.

 

HX3 UM > presets

 

:)

 

A.C.

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I'm leaning towards Mojo or Legend rather than DMC. Sometimes you just need to accept which combinations of features can't be found in the same box, and put some aside for a different box. I'm not going to get something that's an easy-playing holistically-designed Hammond and a comprehensive flexible MIDI controller as well. As I'm primarily looking for the first here, I'll put the second aside and get something else to do that down the line if need be.

I'm chiming in a bit late to this thread, but as a DMC/Gemini owner, I agree with this thinking. After living with it for a few years, I think the lack of integration between the controller board and the Gemini within it is probably too big a challenge to keep dealing with. As stated in previous responses, there's a ramp up to get it all set up the way you want it, which is fine. However I find that I'm resistant to doing new configurations if I need them for new songs, because I find it such a pain to deal with. One editor for setups connected via USB, another editor for the Gemini connected via WiFi. I've found the USB editor for the DMC-122 to be very glitchy on the Mac. There's also no real user interface on the DMC for the Gemini, so I'm using BandHelper on the iPad as a "control station" for the whole thing, sending sysex to change setups on the DMC and patch changes to the Gemini for each song. It all just feels clunky. At this point, I'm thinking I might re-purpose the DMC as a controller for MainStage, and consider the Gemini as a backup sound source.

"If you can't dazzle them with dexterity, baffle them with bullshit."
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Thanks Mighty that pretty much confirms what I was thinking. I appreciate your contributing this as often when people own a piece of gear the cognitive dissonance makes them accentuate the positive and try to avoid the negative.

 

It's weird though, considering the two products are made by the same company, marketed as a complementary pair and often sold as such with the Gemini pre-installed. I have to wonder: if this is how much of a PITA running the DMC is with their own module, imagine how much worse it could be with third party ones!

 

How do you find the sounds on the Gemini though? As I said upthread I'm really impressed by what I've heard, and may well buy the rackmount version.

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I keep thinking that the DMC-122 as a controller would be perfect for running iOS. Especially now with B-3X running on the upper manual, and a suite of the usual suspects on the lower manual â that are superior to anything I've heard from the Gemini anyway. Even Korg Module Pro + add-ons would do. My 2.7¢ CDN.

 

:idk:

____________________________________
Rod

Here for the gear.

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How do you find the sounds on the Gemini though? As I said upthread I'm really impressed by what I've heard, and may well buy the rackmount version.

The sounds are great, and I find DMC very playable actually. I've been using it as a sole board with a funk/soul band (with real horns), and the bread and butter stuff in the Gemini is top notch as previously mentioned. The organ, Rhodes, Wurly, and Clav are killer. The new pianos aren't bad either. The virtual analog is definitely good enough for what I do live. So I think the only thing I'm really missing is the ability to load in some of my own samples for some sound effects here and there... e.g. the "Doh"s from Uptown Funk. I think the action is a good balance for organ and non-organ sounds, although I'm not someone who swears by weighted keys for piano so take that with a grain of salt. It definitely is a very configurable controller, which is why I'm thinking it might work better as a controller for something like MainStage where you can set up zones beyond what the DMC could do on its own, trigger samples, etc.

 

At this point, I'm not really taking any course of action as there are no gigs anyway, but once things get restarted I'll need to decide if I'm going to keep using the DMC as a controller, or pick up a couple of smaller/lighter 61 note controllers. The downside with that option is there's no more built in Gemini as a backup sound source. And I'll need to pick up a Mac laptop, so I'm keeping an eye on the whole ARM thing too.

"If you can't dazzle them with dexterity, baffle them with bullshit."
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My favorite organ player of all time, Larry Young, rarely changed drawbar settings, at least not that I can think of offhand. Jimmy Smith maybe did it moreso, but I can think of many tracks where he doesn't change at all. Then there's players like Medeski who play the drawbars almost as much as the keys. But I think Medeski is typically moving drawbars, not switching presets. Maybe switching presets is more of a gospel thing? Someone like Moe would be a better guide to all this than me.

 

But the point is, if you're just starting to find your Hammond "voice," you don't know where you'll end up on that spectrum. You may find you like having and fully use multiple drawbars per manual and lots of presets. But you may also find you hardly use any of it in real time.

Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro

Home: Vintage Vibe 64

 

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That´s not the point,- it was not available even Thoman had it on display since many weeks,- so no user experience at all.

Ah yes, non-existence is a good reason not to get something. ;-)

 

I'm not so concerned about lack of user experience, but that's an individual decision, some people are fine with being the pioneers, others are not. Of course if EVERYONE waited to hear the experiences of others, nobody would ever be able to buy one! ;-) So luckily, there are buyers of each type.

 

No word about extra instruments and FX from Mojo61.

I'd assume not until informed otherwise. (Of course, the XT doesn't have them, either.)

 

HX3 doesn´t store drawbar settings only,- they have a different preset system, differenciating between "upper" and "lower" manual presets (storing drawbar settings only) and a few "common" presets (storing all tabs).

Kind of similar to the Nord Stage/Electro models which have allowed the saving of organ presets separately from Programs which include other functions.

 

After living with it for a few years, I think the lack of integration between the {DMC-122} controller board and the Gemini within it is probably too big a challenge to keep dealing with...It all just feels clunky. At this point, I'm thinking I might re-purpose the DMC as a controller for MainStage, and consider the Gemini as a backup sound source.

This also kind of relates to the discussion we were having in the thread at https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/3053189/re-re-visiting-an-ipad-live-rig#Post3053189 about why people often prefer boards with sounds as their controllers. There is often an ease of working with boards where the control surface is integrated with the sound engine in a way that is hard to duplicate in a controller+external sounds rig, yet the external sounds also provide things you want. So sometimes it could be desirable to work with internal sounds and use the external sounds as adjuncts as opposed to as sole sources, even for reasons that have nothing to do with either having a given sound that you can't quite duplicate on the other. Unfortunately, it sounds like the DMC/Gemini concept ended up being a kind of worst of both worlds... the natural obstacle of a non-dedicated control surface, while also lacking in the tools to help streamline things via the receiving side (a la Mainstage or whatever). I was going to say a bit more here, but I think actually it's more relevant in that other thread,

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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My favorite organ player of all time, Larry Young, rarely changed drawbar settings, at least not that I can think of offhand. Jimmy Smith maybe did it moreso, but I can think of many tracks where he doesn't change at all. Then there's players like Medeski who play the drawbars almost as much as the keys. But I think Medeski is typically moving drawbars, not switching presets. Maybe switching presets is more of a gospel thing? Someone like Moe would be a better guide to all this than me.

 

But the point is, if you're just starting to find your Hammond "voice," you don't know where you'll end up on that spectrum. You may find you like having and fully use multiple drawbars per manual and lots of presets. But you may also find you hardly use any of it in real time.

 

Well you certainly won't use lots of presets in real time, if you're playing an instrument that doesn't have any. :)

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This also kind of relates to the discussion we were having in the thread at https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/3053189/re-re-visiting-an-ipad-live-rig#Post3053189 about why people often prefer boards with sounds as their controllers. There is often an ease of working with boards where the control surface is integrated with the sound engine in a way that is hard to duplicate in a controller+external sounds rig, yet the external sounds also provide things you want. So sometimes it could be desirable to work with internal sounds and use the external sounds as adjuncts as opposed to as sole sources, even for reasons that have nothing to do with either having a given sound that you can't quite duplicate on the other. Unfortunately, it sounds like the DMC/Gemini concept ended up being a kind of worst of both worlds... the natural obstacle of a non-dedicated control surface, while also lacking in the tools to help streamline things via the receiving side (a la Mainstage or whatever). I was going to say a bit more here, but I think actually it's more relevant in that other thread,

I think you just summed up the DMC/Gemini combo really well. Both parts are great, yet the combination is somehow less than the sum of its parts.

 

I'm paying attention to that live iPad thread as well, as I'm not sure yet if it makes sense to buy a Mac when there's so many signs making me think the full MainStage will be landing on iPad with the convergence of the entire product line on Apple Silicon.

"If you can't dazzle them with dexterity, baffle them with bullshit."
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I'm chiming in a bit late to this thread, but as a DMC/Gemini owner, I agree with this thinking. After living with it for a few years, I think the lack of integration between the controller board and the Gemini within it is probably too big a challenge to keep dealing with. As stated in previous responses, there's a ramp up to get it all set up the way you want it, which is fine. However I find that I'm resistant to doing new configurations if I need them for new songs, because I find it such a pain to deal with. One editor for setups connected via USB, another editor for the Gemini connected via WiFi. I've found the USB editor for the DMC-122 to be very glitchy on the Mac. There's also no real user interface on the DMC for the Gemini, so I'm using BandHelper on the iPad as a "control station" for the whole thing, sending sysex to change setups on the DMC and patch changes to the Gemini for each song. It all just feels clunky. At this point, I'm thinking I might re-purpose the DMC as a controller for MainStage, and consider the Gemini as a backup sound source.

 

Yeah, similar feelings over here. At least some of the time. I still love the sounds enough to put up with it.

 

Maybe I misunderstood, but it sounds like he can NOT use the editor to assign the pickup switches and filters to the sliders of the Mojo. i.e. "No functionality to them except in the online editor" and saying he CAN'T assign these things to the drawbars the way he can on the DMC. It sounds like he can do it on the DMC, but not on the Mojo. That's why the Korg could be a sensible solution.

 

And for the DMC, he CAN do the assignments he wants, but he wants to assign more functions than there are sliders to control them. So again, the Korg could be a sensible solution.

 

ETA: also see two posts down, for why a NanoKontrol could be a better way to go regardless.

 

I'm not arguing that the NanoKontrol would be a moderately cheap and easy solution, but it'd be even easier for Crumar just to make this available in an update.

Mojo 61, DMC-122/Gemini Combo, Korg SV-1, Korg Minilogue
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  • 1 month later...

UPDATE: After much research and soul searching I sprung for a Legend Live, went ahead and ordered one from Thomann without playing it first as there's literally nowhere in the UK to go and play one.

 

Thing sounds fantastic, as so many have said in various ways (I'm not expert enough to give judgments on specific factors, related to original Hammond or other clones). Just been immersed in playing it for a couple of hours, and it definitely confirmed for me why I wanted a straightforward clonewheel and not a two-part controller+sound source kludge.

 

BUT here's the thing: I REALLY don't like the action. it feels MUCH stiffer than I remember the Mojo feeling in the store. Different experience altogether, making it hard to execute fast runs etc.

 

After playing it for a couple of hours, I literally have sore hands and arms. I'm wondering if part of this might be because as a piano player, I'm not used to the sustained demands of getting legato out of an organ, having to keep fingers on notes all the time while other parts move because there's no sustain pedal. Obviously I've played organ sounds and other sounds like that within general MIDI-keyboard setups, but not in the sense of that being the only sound, for a couple of hours. Has anyone else found this transitioning from piano to organ? But I also think it might be partly due to the action. Or to put it another way: Maybe one of the REASONS Hammonds, and organs generally, have light actions is because of the physical demands of playing legato and keeping sound going on them.

 

I'm really thinking of sending it back and getting the Mojo instead, unless anyone can convince me that the action is something I'll get used to over time. It's a while now since I looked at all the specs for these: Apart from the second set of drawbars, is there anything else I'd lose swapping he Legend Live for a Mojo Classic?

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After playing it for a couple of hours, I literally have sore hands and arms. I'm wondering if part of this might be because as a piano player, I'm not used to the sustained demands of getting legato out of an organ, having to keep fingers on notes all the time while other parts move because there's no sustain pedal. . . . I'm really thinking of sending it back and getting the Mojo instead, unless anyone can convince me that the action is something I'll get used to over time.
Well, full disclosure, I'm a Mojo owner, and the action is one of the things that made me gravitate toward that particular clone (but also I found a deal; I wouldn't have said no to an SKX or a Legend if I found one, probably). But that said, as someone who started on piano, I am definitely constantly working to keep bad habits out of my organ playing. I've really had to work to deprogram unconsciously digging in harder when things get loud or intense -- leaning into that big fat sustained chord doesn't make it any louder, the pedal does! But lightening up my technique in general has been a journey over the past few years, and I know when I'm in a good place with it, and I feel it in my wrists and forearms after a gig or rehearsal when I've been lax.

 

So, it may just be a matter of practice and adjustment. I don't know if the slightly lighter action of the Mojo will address your issue.

 

Before I had the Mojo I played most of my Hammond work on a Nord Electro 4D. I'm not positive, but I don't imagine the Legend action is too different from that, and the differences are subtle, to be sure. But the thing about instruments at this level is that everyone's tiny, differing personal preferences -- even ones we aren't aware we have -- can make a huge difference. So I am neither encouraging you to exchange your Legend, nor discouraging you from trying to find exactly what will be the right tool for YOUR musical journey and experience (which is different from the rest of ours!). Just giving you some things to consider, since I know the sinking feeling in your gut that 'buyer's remorse' can bring about.

Samuel B. Lupowitz

Musician. Songwriter. Food Enthusiast. Bad Pun Aficionado.

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I got an early Mojo classic 2 manual when they first near came out. At the time, it was between that or a Hammond XK3c. Couldn't find either to play, so just went by web reviews and what videos were out.

The leslie sim and choice of different organs I liked. I wish I had this light an organ decades ago. I'm very happy with it. The touch is not as light as they offer now I believe. But I got used to it.

I did have some notes hanging a couple times like others reported. But after it was suggested to use a UPS due to needing clean steady power being it's a computer inside. Once I got a UPS, I have had no problems with strange behavior from it.

There's so many good choices now you probably can't go wrong with whatever you decide.

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" ..BUT here's the thing: I REALLY don't like the action. it feels MUCH stiffer than I remember the Mojo feeling in the store..."

This has been mentioned in this forum dozens of times. I'm not sure how you could now be surprised by it.

57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn

Delaware Dave

Exit93band

 

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it feels MUCH stiffer than I remember the Mojo feeling in the store.

I have not played either one, but from what I've read, all of these boards use the same Fatar TP8O action, but have differeing amounts of spring tension, categorized here as I remember reading or have personally experienced...

 

Heaviest (most forceful pushback from the spring tension): Viscount, Roland VR730, Dexibell J7, Nord Electro/Stage (which doesn't mean all these models are necessarily *equally* heavy, just that they have all been noted as being heavier feeling models)

 

Middle: Hammond XK1/1C, SK series, Korg CX3 (final iteration), Numa Organ (original), earlier Crumar Mojo series, Gemini DMC. (Maybe the Nord C2 organ series?)

 

Lightest: current Crumar Mojo series, at least some Numa Organ 2 (I played two different Numa Organ 2, the first one definitely light feeling, the more recent felt like a Middle)

 

...point being that your Mojo to Legend comparison probably shows about the most extreme difference you could find.

 

Some people have reported success in changing the springs themselves to alter a board's action. I did this on a Kurzweil, and have been meaning to try this on a Nord.

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I have had both the original Mojo action and the newer lighter Mojo action. AFAIK, springs were changed and perhaps some sensor firmware changed. The new one is much more playable IMO.

Since the sensor is simply on/or (for non-velocity high-trigger sounds), I doubt there would be a difference on the firmware side, but the sensor could be physically placed differently, that would be another variable. Something I also noticed on the Numa Organ 2 was a little additional felt strip at the bottom that probably served to reduce the total key travel. So to your bigger underlying point here I think, yes, it's possible that spring tension is not the only difference among implementations.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Since the sensor is simply on/or (for non-velocity high-trigger sounds), I doubt there would be a difference on the firmware side, but the sensor could be physically placed differently, that would be another variable. Something I also noticed on the Numa Organ 2 was a little additional felt strip at the bottom that probably served to reduce the total key travel. So to your bigger underlying point here I think, yes, it's possible that spring tension is not the only difference among implementations.

 

My info was per Guido a few years ago. It's possible I may be misremembering somewhat, but it seems possible that a firmware change might have been desirable for adjusting the velocity response to the lighter action for the non-organ piano sounds.

Moe

---

 

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" ..BUT here's the thing: I REALLY don't like the action. it feels MUCH stiffer than I remember the Mojo feeling in the store..."

This has been mentioned in this forum dozens of times. I'm not sure how you could now be surprised by it.

 

I'm not surprised as such - indeed if you look at the beginning of this thread it was one of the things I asked about. But these things are hard to quantify until you actually play them yourself. So the Legend is heavier than the Mojo. How much heavier? There's no number for that, or for trying to predict how I will react to it.

 

As usual, none of these instruments were ahead of the others on every single specification, so I chose the one that I felt was ahead on the most. Obviously I would have preferred to play it first if possible, but as I said above there's literally nowhere in the country to do that.

 

Unfortunately action is a pretty fundamental factor - more fundamental than MIDI spec, number of presets etc. I'll play it a bit more tomorrow and see how I feel but if it's still not comfortable, it'll have to go back.

 

One thing that I did notice is that playing the lower manual was more comfortable than the upper, so I may have been sitting too low. I think I basically set it up so the lower manual was where I would normally have a piano keyboard. The fatigue in my right arm might have been partly from holding it at an unnaturally high angle for too long. Will have to experiment with this tomorrow. It's separating out what is specific to the Legend from what is general about moving from piano to organ.

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