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Re-visiting an iPad Live Rig


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Can the XW-P1 the one-cable MIDI-OUT-and-audio-in-over-USB trick of the Kross and MODX (and other boards like NC2X?)

Unfortunately no, and that's still kind of hard to find even on more recent boards, much less a board that was released circa 2012.

Just to keep score, these keyboards support USB Audio+MIDI:

Korg Kross 61

Yamaha MX61

Yamaha MODX6

Yamaha YC61

 

No USB Audio (MIDI Only):

Casio XW-P1

Roland Juno DS61

Roland VR-09b

Vox Continental

 

Another alternative to consider is the Vox Continental.

The Vox Continental was my first choice for a 61-keyboard + iPad Live Rig - but the Vox doesn't have Audio In (WTF?!? correct me if I'm wrong). I can live without USB Audio; but no Audio In means I have to schlep a mixer. It's such a big fat .

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My YC61 has worked well with ios integration. A big chunk of change compared to the VR09 or Korg Kross, but it has a much better keybed and the internal sounds are more gig worthy. I still have trouble with B3X occasionally crashing ...

That is good to hear. It is pricey, but it does check a lot of boxes for adding an iPad Live Rig. Sounds like a pretty clean setup with the USB Audio.

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I"m not sure where using a keyboard with baked in sounds became preferred as a controller ...

Part of it is that many of the 61-key MIDI controllers haven't caught up yet - so you end up with an iPad Live Rig with a lot of extra doohickeys and dongles. Or worse MIDI controllers focused on the studio and not live performance - so that's another compromise. Urgh ... I guess it's just the way it is right now. It's all workable, just not always elegant.

 

I might build an iPad Live Rig using an aluminum briefcase. With all the devices neatly arranged inside (iPad, USB hub, power supply, audio interface, mixer) - at least it becomes 1 device for a quick-clean setup.

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I might build an iPad Live Rig using an aluminum briefcase. With all the devices neatly arranged inside (iPad, USB hub, power supply, audio interface, mixer) - at least it becomes 1 device for a quick-clean setup.
That's what I'd been doing with my laptop setup prior to quarantine. Since then I've ripped the whole thing apart and I'm starting from scratch, which was good, because it got so overcomplicated that the suitcase setup was becoming just as messy as having to assemble all the cabling from square one at every gig anyway...

 

My new plan is to build a sort of pedalboard/second tier that will sit directly on top of my Mojo or Nord, straddling the top panel buttons, with the iPad, various USB devices, Seaboard, and small MIDI keyboard all in place and ready to go (I'll set the laptop up on my amp and make sure I have a USB cable that reaches for gigs where the iPad alone won't cut it). We'll see how it goes...

Samuel B. Lupowitz

Musician. Songwriter. Food Enthusiast. Bad Pun Aficionado.

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I"m not sure where using a keyboard with baked in sounds became preferred as a controller ...

Part of it is that many of the 61-key MIDI controllers haven't caught up yet - so you end up with an iPad Live Rig with a lot of extra doohickeys and dongles. Or worse MIDI controllers focused on the studio and not live performance - so that's another compromise.

Yes, that picks up from an issue I was talking about in another thread, controllers generally seem more focussed on DAW integration than live performance. Even ones with extensive control surfaces (i.e. lots of definable knobs and sliders) tend to be weak on direct (non scrolling) patch selection. And for splits/layers, while boards with sounds are quite a mix themselves, I don't think I've seen any controllers that can do really easy, quick splits and layers, including easy quick manipulation of the sounds on either side of a split point. And since we've been talking about B3X, while there aren't many keyboards that can send high trigger over MIDI, I don't think there are any soundless controllers that do this. Plus, of course, the boards with sounds provide instant backup if the computer/iPad glitches. So there are a numerous reasons someone might prefer a board-with-sounds even as a controller.

 

Getting back to the first point, about patch selection, even people who are just using the sounds in their boards sometimes use the iPad for patch selection. So that's a possibility with a controller as well. But that won't always be a perfect solution either, i.e. if the controller doesn't provide a convenient place to put the iPad, or if the fact that you're also using the iPad as your sound source then prompts you to have to do more frequent switching between your patch selection screen and screens for apps, depending on your desire to either see the visual of that app or do some on-screen manipulation of it. Or if you're already pushing the iPad to its limits and might have a problem running one more app. I'm not saying it's unworkable by any means, just that there are (as always) pros and cons.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Just to keep score, these keyboards support USB Audio+MIDI:

Korg Kross 61

Yamaha MX61

Yamaha MODX6

Yamaha YC61

 

No USB Audio (MIDI Only):

Casio XW-P1

Roland Juno DS61

Roland VR-09b

Vox Continental

 

The Vox Continental was my first choice for a 61-keyboard + iPad Live Rig - but the Vox doesn't have Audio In (WTF?!? correct me if I'm wrong). I can live without USB Audio; but no Audio In means I have to schlep a mixer. It's such a big fat .

Okay, if we put budget aside then, one of the best contenders might be the Dexibell J7 Combo.

 

... audio over USB *and* line input

... full 4-zone MIDI controller functionality

... motorized drawbars, which might be able to do the trick I was talking about regarding the Vox in that other thread, where you could probably set it up so that on recalling an organ preset, the J7's drawbars would automatically be in sync with the B3X sound

... you can load custom samples (soundfonts) into it if needed (can compensate for limitations in the quality/selection of internal sounds)

... decent action, similar to Nord SW... a bit heavily sprung, but generally preferable to the Kross/VR09 options

... downside: you're looking for a 61, and it's a 73. Not a heavy board, but at 22 lbs, heavier than any of the ones above.

... downside: no pitch and mod wheels which those other options all have, though it supports two mappable expression pedals, you could map one to mod

 

Back to your wish list in general though, I'm still wary about audio over USB, based on my one experience with it. I see the appeal, but I heard noticeably more latency than going direct line out from the iPad's headphone jack. I'll be curious to hear if anyone else has made that comparison and what their results have been. That's also something to think about if that's the biggest appeal of the Kross over the VR09.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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... I'm still wary about audio over USB, based on my one experience with it. I see the appeal, but I heard noticeably more latency than going direct line out from the iPad's headphone jack. I'll be curious to hear if anyone else has made that comparison and what their results have been.

In my case, I run the iPad through a powered USB hub which connects a soundcard + USB MIDI keyboard. It's a good performing setup, but creates a mess of wires, so a built-in USB Audio+MIDI interface with 1x cable is appealing.

 

Direct audio from the headphone jack might have less latency, but I prefer to use a soundcard to get a proper line out. FWIW I don't notice the latency in my USB setup; I know some people are more sensitive - but I feel the latency in my setup is so minimal as to be non-existent. But I've always wondered what would happen if I had to convert the USB MIDI to DIN.

 

Setup:

- iPad + CCK

- Anker Powered USB Hub

- Soundcards: Traktor Audio 2, Mackie USB-MDB digital DI box

- Roland FP-30

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What apps have you been using for live performances? Bread and butter sounds for pop, rock, soul, latin etc?

 

Notes:

Been balcony gigging with these apps: Korg Module, iLectric Piano, and assorted Lumbeat drum machines (Afro-Latin Drum Machine, Soft Drummer, Jazz Drummer, Rock Drummer, Brazilian Drummer, Funk Drummer). Also AUM, Forscore and iReal Pro. Still waiting to pull the trigger on Ravenscroft 275 and Hammond B3-X.

I just found this thread, so appy-poly-logees if someone has mentioned this, but I would skip Ravenscroft unless you have a separate iPad devoted to it. It will probably use more resources than you are willing to do without, and for a bread and butter like piano, you"ll always have it loaded, limiting what other apps you can run. I think it"s best to get your piano/EP sounds from your hardware board and use the iPad for everything else.

The fact there's a Highway To Hell and only a Stairway To Heaven says a lot about anticipated traffic numbers

 

People only say "It's a free country" when they're doing something shitty-Demetri Martin

 

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What apps have you been using for live performances? Bread and butter sounds for pop, rock, soul, latin etc?

 

Notes:

Been balcony gigging with these apps: Korg Module, iLectric Piano, and assorted Lumbeat drum machines (Afro-Latin Drum Machine, Soft Drummer, Jazz Drummer, Rock Drummer, Brazilian Drummer, Funk Drummer). Also AUM, Forscore and iReal Pro. Still waiting to pull the trigger on Ravenscroft 275 and Hammond B3-X.

I just found this thread, so appy-poly-logees if someone has mentioned this, but I would skip Ravenscroft unless you have a separate iPad devoted to it. It will probably use more resources than you are willing to do without, and for a bread and butter like piano, you"ll always have it loaded, limiting what other apps you can run. I think it"s best to get your piano/EP sounds from your hardware board and use the iPad for everything else.

 

 

Ravenscroft works fine with other concurrent apps (Sampletank, Neo Soul, Galileo, some drum apps) on an iPad pro...I think it should be specified to be cautious using it on anything less than iPad Air 2 specs

There is no luck - luck is simply the confluence of circumstance and co-incidence...

 

Time is the final arbiter for all things

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Just to keep score, these keyboards support USB Audio+MIDI:

Korg Kross 61

Yamaha MX61

Yamaha MODX6

Yamaha YC61

 

No USB Audio (MIDI Only):

Casio XW-P1

Roland Juno DS61

Roland VR-09b

Vox Continental

 

The Vox Continental was my first choice for a 61-keyboard + iPad Live Rig - but the Vox doesn't have Audio In (WTF?!? correct me if I'm wrong). I can live without USB Audio; but no Audio In means I have to schlep a mixer. It's such a big fat .

Okay, if we put budget aside then, one of the best contenders might be the Dexibell J7 Combo.

 

... audio over USB *and* line input

... full 4-zone MIDI controller functionality

... motorized drawbars, which might be able to do the trick I was talking about regarding the Vox in that other thread, where you could probably set it up so that on recalling an organ preset, the J7's drawbars would automatically be in sync with the B3X sound

... you can load custom samples (soundfonts) into it if needed (can compensate for limitations in the quality/selection of internal sounds)

... decent action, similar to Nord SW... a bit heavily sprung, but generally preferable to the Kross/VR09 options

... downside: you're looking for a 61, and it's a 73. Not a heavy board, but at 22 lbs, heavier than any of the ones above.

... downside: no pitch and mod wheels which those other options all have, though it supports two mappable expression pedals, you could map one to mod

 

Back to your wish list in general though, I'm still wary about audio over USB, based on my one experience with it. I see the appeal, but I heard noticeably more latency than going direct line out from the iPad's headphone jack. I'll be curious to hear if anyone else has made that comparison and what their results have been. That's also something to think about if that's the biggest appeal of the Kross over the VR09.

 

Not good about the latency, I'll have to pay more attention. I haven't tried organ (not owning b3x just yet) but I have used some fast attack Moog sounds and didn't notice it but again wasn't really focusing on it. Doesn't take much to be unpleasant unless you are playing slow attack pads...

 

I did seem to have an issue or two with my Modx7 when I had a big layered patch playing with the ipad, I don't remember the exact issue but my impression is that it was having trouble keeping up with that combination. Again I didn't pay too much attention as I was just poking around and wasn't (yet) considering having an ipad in my rig.

 

I've only tried audio over usb with a Modx7 and a Moxf8--and by the way based on testing the older MoxF units can be added to the list, they seem to work just like the newer MoDx keyboards. Both have a dedicated volume, on the Moxf that appears to be the "daw control" slider which I actually prefer over the Modx knob, you get an led that looks like it would show clipping for one or the combined signals.

 

My goal, short of getting that Nord stage compact I'm considering, would be to have the ipad supplement organ mainly, and typically that would be a piano split to the left with organ in a zone on the right hand (or vice versa for certain songs). Nothing too crazy as far as layers with our music but I'd like to make sure I stress test it.

 

As far as why use hardware keyboards as controllers--for me the main thing would be having a fallback option if something goes wrong with the ipad. It's the main reason I usually gig with two hardware keyboards too :)

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Not good about the latency, I'll have to pay more attention. I haven't tried organ (not owning b3x just yet) but I have used some fast attack Moog sounds and didn't notice it but again wasn't really focusing on it. Doesn't take much to be unpleasant unless you are playing slow attack pads...

and it can be more or less hard to notice at different times. The attack of the sound, as you mentioned. Possibly the distance of the speakers. Maybe the feel of the particular action. Maybe just how alert/attentive you're being. Getting back to my earlier post, the easiest test to see if there's perceptible latency at all is to layer the external sound with an internal one. So on your Yamaha, layer B3X (maybe with percussion enabled) with an internal harpsichord sound (or other suitably distinct-from-organ percussive sound), and see if you can sense a difference between the start of the harpsichord sound and the organ sound. It's much easier to experience small amounts of latency relative to something than it is to recognize it in an absolute sense.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Picking up on the tangent about possible benefits of using boards-with-sounds as controllers... It's interesting how Omnisphere is trying to take advantage of the dedicated control surfaces of boards with sounds to control their software sounds, which I think can make them feel more like "playing an instrument" where generic controllers may have a little more of an "operating a computer" feel.

 

I always thought the Nord Stage series would be a pretty cool (albeit pricey) soundless controller, with it's nice combination of organ, synth, and effects controls, all well-laid out (grouped, sized, labeled) for their functions, all of which send MIDI CC and so are all VST-mappable, and its Program select buttons could easily send the desired Program Changes (addressing my earlier patch selection comments, although even the Nord is not my ideal here). I'm not aware of any actual soundless controller that would be as comfortably laid out for live manipulation of organ, synth, and effects. I had thought NS3 in particular would be the best of them because it's the only one you can get with drawbars, but for VSTs, you could also make a case for the LED drawbutton models, where I think you could probably get them to synchronize with your organ VST. That opens up some less costly used models.

 

Even apart from the advantage of having backup sounds, I think any Nord Stage (even the oldest) probably makes a better live performance soundless controller than any current soundless controller.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Picking up on the tangent about possible benefits of using boards-with-sounds as controllers... It's interesting how Omnisphere is trying to take advantage of the dedicated control surfaces of boards with sounds to control their software sounds, which I think can make them feel more like "playing an instrument" where generic controllers may have a little more of an "operating a computer" feel.

 

I always thought the Nord Stage series would be a pretty cool (albeit pricey) soundless controller, with it's nice combination of organ, synth, and effects controls, all well-laid out (grouped, sized, labeled) for their functions, all of which send MIDI CC and so are all VST-mappable, and its Program select buttons could easily send the desired Program Changes (addressing my earlier patch selection comments, although even the Nord is not my ideal here). I'm not aware of any actual soundless controller that would be as comfortably laid out for live manipulation of organ, synth, and effects. I had thought NS3 in particular would be the best of them because it's the only one you can get with drawbars, but for VSTs, you could also make a case for the LED drawbutton models, where I think you could probably get them to synchronize with your organ VST. That opens up some less costly used models.

 

Even apart from the advantage of having backup sounds, I think any Nord Stage (even the oldest) probably makes a better live performance soundless controller than any current soundless controller.

 

What would you think of the Artis 7 then? IIRC you have one?

____________________________________
Rod

Here for the gear.

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As your local Kronos enthusiast / power user, I have to advocate for the 61-key as a great option for an iPad rig.

 

Yay for caffeine! On your mark, get set, go ---->

 

- no latency

- USB audio in / out, which means

- iPad can run through Kronos FX (which are many, varied, and high quality)

- Kronos can run through iPad FX (ditto to above)

- 4 AUX outs on the Kronos, and iPad can be sent to any of them (like to a Vent or mixer channel)

- USB charging for the iPad

- class compliant USB means plug and play Wireless Keytar mojo

- Kronos has 8 knobs, 16 buttons, 9 sliders to send MIDI CCs

- Kronos also has a ribbon, vector joystick, and 8 virtual onscreen pads for more CCs

 

Kronos can function as a 16-zone controller.

Just set to EXT any Combi channel you want transmit out of.

This means different controller configs, per song if wanted.

Includes transmission of keyboard note and velocity ranges:

Trigger different IOS synths depending on velocity and keyboard range!

 

The Kronos auto-sampler lets you record on the fly, saving to disk your moments of inspiration.

This includes any IOS synths piped through the Kronos.

 

The Set List function is indispensable for live gigs.

Set List slots can send program change info to iPad.

There is a Global EQ here, for saving EQ profiles venue to venue.

 

Other little-mentioned perks: vocoder, best FM engine, streaming of GB-sized sample libraries, Wavestation

 

The 61 key is still fairly portable (31 lbs) and affordable (around $2k used).

 

That is all. Thanks for participating.

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The Kronos is pretty comprehensive in what it can do. One of my favorites is to bring along an FCB1010 to gigs and use it as MIDI foot pedal.

 

Each of the 8 virtual pads can be set to play a note or chord of your choice. They can also be set to individual MIDI channels + CC, so you can send whatever CC you want to any sound -- whether Kronos internal or to a soft synth or FX on the iPad.

 

Once the pads are set this way, per song, you can pull up the virtual pads onscreen and play your pre-programmed chord or single note or sample or RPPR phrase. So you can trigger with a single finger that falling violin phrase in Billy Jean, or that vocal sample in random pop song X, or those tricky horn chords. Or that backing track.

 

Or if both hands are already busy, stomp on that FCB and trigger them that way. Fun.

 

Another option: Say in a song you want to switch between subsets of sounds. Verse is piano and strings, bridge is 2 x synth, chorus is organ + synths + strings. Use the Kronos Scene buttons, assigning each button to call up your groups of sounds. Again, these are internal or in the ipad.

 

Hands still too busy to switch between groups? No problem, use the FCB instead. Amazingly flexible machine.

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I always thought the Nord Stage series would be a pretty cool (albeit pricey) soundless controller, with it's nice combination of organ, synth, and effects controls, all well-laid out (grouped, sized, labeled) for their functions, all of which send MIDI CC and so are all VST-mappable, and its Program select buttons could easily send the desired Program Changes (addressing my earlier patch selection comments, although even the Nord is not my ideal here). I'm not aware of any actual soundless controller that would be as comfortably laid out for live manipulation of organ, synth, and effects. I had thought NS3 in particular would be the best of them because it's the only one you can get with drawbars, but for VSTs, you could also make a case for the LED drawbutton models, where I think you could probably get them to synchronize with your organ VST. That opens up some less costly used models.

 

Even apart from the advantage of having backup sounds, I think any Nord Stage (even the oldest) probably makes a better live performance soundless controller than any current soundless controller.

 

What would you think of the Artis 7 then? IIRC you have one?

Artis7 is decent as general controllers go (giving you more MIDI definable controllers than competitive models like Korg Krome, Roland FA, Yamah MODX), but as a control surface, it is not at all in the league of what I was describing in the Nord. While in some ways Kurz can be even more flexible (e.g. more built-in MIDI zoning), the MIDI control surface is minimal... 9 generic sliders, 10 generic buttons. Just looking at the continuous sliders/knobs, Kurz has the 9 definable sliders, while Nord has 9 dedicated drawbar for organ, plus 15 dedicated knobs simultaneously available for synth functions, plus still more dedicated to effects, plus some others. It's not just the sheer number of controls, it is that they are well laid-out for their functions (how they are placed, grouped, sized, labeled)... You never wonder "is this slider currently a drawbar or is it a filter cutoff or is it reverb" -- not that you couldn't define anything to do anything once you're controlling VSTs, but my point about it being a good surface (as an extension of the kind of thing Omnisphere does) is that the controls make sense for the functions they are designed for, even if you use them to control non-Nord sounds rather than Nord sounds. With all the soundless controllers being so DAW-focussed, I don't think any of them are as organic feeling to play as something with controls that are not so generic but are actually dedicated to the most common performance/editing functions you'd want to use. I don't know whether anyone uses a Nord this way, but it makes me think that it could make your VSTs feel more like playing an instrument than operating a computer... essentially the reason people often prefer Nords to other keyboards WITH sounds, for that matter.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Decided to us an iPad synth rig for an upcoming gig I"m playing. I"m sitting in with a local band I had a brief stint as a full time keyboardist for about five years ago. The married singer and guitarist are holding an invite-only outdoor event on their property, with lots of wide open outdoor space so everyone can maintain social distancing and such.

 

This will be my first actual gig using Keystage as a set list/midi management app, so it"s good that I"m going simple: just my Seaboard to control Moog Model D (mostly) and occasionally Roli Noise and Mellowsound Mellotron samples hosted in AUM (since those apps are weak on MIDI and preset management when standalone).

 

Mostly working well, with the occasional stuck note (the Moog app couldn"t handle me using the seaboard like a set of congas). Also having some major zippering issues when I try to use Keystage"s XY pad for filter and resonance sweeps in Model D, but I"m not sure if that"s a memory limitation on my 2017 iPad Mini or just conflict with my Seaboard also sending information to the cc resonance is mapped to.But I love Model D and setting the iPad on top of the Wurlitzer is much less stressful than setting my MacBook up. I"m running from the headphone out in mono to my talkbox with an 1/8th inch TRS to quarter inch cable, then out to the amp from the talkbox output.

 

Since I"ll have a Wurlitzer and a clonewheel for the rest of the sounds, this is a great way to travel light with some powerful synth patches I can easily adjust song by song. Still skeptical I could make this work if I were trying to run the electric piano sounds off of the iPad simultaneously, though, at least not without a higher-powered tablet. Maybe I"ll see what the non-Intel models have to offer...

Samuel B. Lupowitz

Musician. Songwriter. Food Enthusiast. Bad Pun Aficionado.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I did my first iPad rig gig last weekend. Overall, I was very pleased!

 

The rig used an Electro 4D as a midi controller (only), iPad Pro, and Korg PlugKey interface. It was an electric blues / rock gig so I only needed AP, EP, and B3. Ravenscroft worked well for AP, B-3X sounded great, but Neo-Soul fell short for EP (to be fair, I think I need to spend more time with it). AUM and MidiFlow made it all work with patches selectable by the E4D patch buttons, drawbars mapped, OD mapped, etc.

 

I opened up the iPad and put the cover between the E4D and keyboard stand. This placed the iPad in front of my right knee for easy access. The PlugKey was Velcroed to the keyboard stand such that I could easily reach the volume knob.

 

Here"s a short video clip that shows the rig:

 

[video:youtube]

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FWIW, I am using a Vortex Wireless 2 as a second board with the ipad...dongle is 100% with iOS it is a reasonable keybed, can load presets at the touch of a pad, 8 sliders...and if I need to jump out front to mix (i use an xr-16) i can - as there are no wires attached) simply pick it up and walk out front. Maybe not THE solution, but it is something that is working for me.

There is no luck - luck is simply the confluence of circumstance and co-incidence...

 

Time is the final arbiter for all things

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Korg module on an iPad Pro playing Ivory or Scarbee gives me distracting extra latency. I am not an organist in a church cathedral, I"m a percussive pianist that can"t seem to get use to that laid back feel of increased latency.

 Find 660 of my jazz piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Harry was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book."

 

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Korg module on an iPad Pro playing Ivory or Scarbee gives me distracting extra latency.
What is your connection from keyboard to iPad? What is your connection from audio out of iPad into your amp/speakers?

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Yes, to my ears B-3X sounds much better / authentic than the Electro 4D B3.

 

I had to tweak the E4D Note On Velocity with MidiFlow to make B-3X sound right. Although I didn"t see it documented anywhere it seems Note On Velocity affects the sound of B-3X. I learned that the E4D transmits Note On Veloicy = 1 when an organ patch is selected. As a result B-3X sounded weird until I used MidiFlow to change the E4D Note On Velocity to a larger value. I used 127 but didn"t experiment to see if there was a better choice.

 

I need to spend more time with the Neo-Soul EPs before forming a fair opinion. They way I had them setup for this gig they were not as good as the E4D EPs.

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I had to tweak the E4D Note On Velocity with MidiFlow to make B-3X sound right. Although I didn"t see it documented anywhere it seems Note On Velocity affects the sound of B-3X. I learned that the E4D transmits Note On Veloicy = 1 when an organ patch is selected. As a result B-3X sounded weird until I used MidiFlow to change the E4D Note On Velocity to a larger value. I used 127 but didn"t experiment to see if there was a better choice.

Interesting. I remember reading about the idea of implementing velocity to emulate altering the triggering of the 9 busbars, i.e. a fast strike would trigger all 9 tones simultaneously (or close to it), while a slow strike would increase the time between the triggering of the 9 elements. I wonder if that's what they've implemented there? Of course, that implementation can't work using a keyboard set to send Note On from the high trigger point, as you can no longer send notes of different velocity. You can't have everything...

 

I need to spend more time with the Neo-Soul EPs before forming a fair opinion. They way I had them setup for this gig they were not as good as the E4D EPs.
I've spent hundreds on Neo-Soul stuff over the years, and it seems I pretty much never end up using it. On the iPad, I ended up preferring Korg Module. Though I never tried editing the stock NS sounds, to whatever extent one can do that...

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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I've been using the iPad in my solo restaurant job since they reopened about 6 weeks ago and it's working pretty well. I'm running B-3X and Neo Soul there and added Ravenscroft yesterday when I got to do a duo. Overall the experience has been very good. I'm using a Roland FA-07 as the main board. I'll have to check in to Al's statement about the note on velocity to see if the Roland has that ability as well. Like Al & Scott I've not been too pleased with the Neo Soul. I'm afraid to try the Korg Module because of the reported latency. I did break down & get the iElectric piano but it had a very noticeable latency too. Whenever band jobs start up again it won't be a problem because I love the Rhodes sound on my outdated but still very usable Kawai MP6.
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Yes, to my ears B-3X sounds much better / authentic than the Electro 4D B3.

Great playing and sound on that clip! I got to use B-3X on my last gig before lockdown, with the iPad headphone output going into the input of my Kurzweil PC4 to avoid having to use a keyboard mixer. Sounded great on "Hush", "Time Of The Season" and "Magic Carpet Ride" - my bandmates complimented me on the solos without knowing I was using my iPad. I later realized I had screwed up by using a silent non-KB3 program on the PC4 - a KB3 program would have given the high attack point over MIDI and fast passages would have been much easier.

Kurzweil PC4, Expressive E Osmose, UNO Synth Pro, Hammond B-3X on iPad, Rhodes Mark II Stage 73, ART 710-A MK4s

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I'm afraid to try the Korg Module because of the reported latency. I did break down & get the iElectric piano but it had a very noticeable latency too. Whenever band jobs start up again it won't be a problem because I love the Rhodes sound on my outdated but still very usable Kawai MP6.

Korg Module is free to download and try (vs. Korg Module Pro). Would be interested to see if you notice significant latency on your setup with the free version of Korg Module.

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