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How do yo prefer to learn ?


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Greetings,

 

With my new hybrid Nylon purchase I am inspired to learn some new material. Being that I am old school, a pretty good reader with a piano and music theory background, I bought some books/CD packages for flamenco,bossa nova comping, and easy classical guitar. But there are so many options now, face to face lessons, Zoom lessons, Youtube videos, subscription sights like True Fire. Which approach do you prefer to learn and sharpen your guitar skills?

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Hey. I still prefer Books/PDFs with accompanying Audio against Videos with accompanying PDFs . I think it's faster and easier to find the content than videos.
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Among the interesting and profound differences between keyboards and guitars is that the layout of the guitar allows the same note to be played in several places.

 

On a guitar with 20 frets, Middle C can be played in 5 different locations on 5 different strings. That could complicate reading sheet music (something I don't do at all).

 

Another difference is that changing keys on keyboards means changing the "shape" of the scales/fingering. On stringed instruments, once a scale is learned as a pattern it can simply be moved higher or lower and the fingering/shape will remain the same.Of course, using the open strings can eliminate the need to fret some notes. That said, if you learn a major scale on the three high strings of the guitar - 3rd, 2nd and 1st strings - you can simply move it closer to the nut or closer to the bridge to change keys.

 

Bottom line - fewer patterns have more applications. All of this applies to chord shapes as well as scale shapes.

 

Memorize the notes on the fretboard from the open string to the 12th fret, they will repeat at that point as you go beyond the 12th fret.

Learn the shapes of chords and patterns of the scales and you can simply move them around to fit.

 

As to how I like to learn, I've been a "learn on the fly" gigger for so long I couldn't tell you. I can make it up as I go if needed. I am NOT a "note for note" sort of music personality, I will play undeniable signature licks as needed but learning all the parts of a song "just like the record" simply makes no sense in context.

 

The keyboardist for the Motown Tribute band I played in put it well. When I passed the audition he gave me a complete book of charts for the songs, in the order that we would play them - 4 sets. Then he said "We have 2 lead singers, keyboards, guitar, bass and drums. Motown records have strings, horns, choirs, piano, organ, 3 guitarists, tamborine, congas, saxophone solos and dance steps. Get the signature licks and do the best you can."

 

Or, the time I was in a Top 40 County Band and the male lead singer said - "You aren't playing that guitar part on this song." I said "Do you want one of the 3 acoustic guitars (including Nashville tuning), the steel guitar, the two electric lead guitars (in harmony) or what? Tell me which guitar part you want me to play and I'll learn it." He stared at me in disbelief, it never occurred to him that there were 6 guitars on the record.

 

For all that, if you lay down a good feel, sing the choruses and have fun, the dance floor will fill up. Maybe there is one musician in the crowd who will be rude or stupid enough to come up to a band member and say "You don't play that just like the record..." Nobody else will care, not even slightly.

 

Do what you can and have fun!!!!!

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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Hey. I still prefer Books/PDFs with accompanying Audio against Videos with accompanying PDFs . I think it's faster and easier to find the content than videos.

 

OK, I don't feel so bad now, knowing I'm not alone. I am just used to learning that way, but I really need the audio to go along with the book, as it's hard to get the whole story from just the notation.

With that being said, I can definitely see advantages to a combination of video and notation such as the True Fire videos (which I have still not tired) Of course getting one on one lessons, in person, with an expert would be ideal, but maybe a bit hard now days.

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Among the interesting and profound differences between keyboards and guitars is that the layout of the guitar allows the same note to be played in several places.

 

On a guitar with 20 frets, Middle C can be played in 5 different locations on 5 different strings. That could complicate reading sheet music (something I don't do at all).

 

Another difference is that changing keys on keyboards means changing the "shape" of the scales/fingering. On stringed instruments, once a scale is learned as a pattern it can simply be moved higher or lower and the fingering/shape will remain the same.Of course, using the open strings can eliminate the need to fret some notes. That said, if you learn a major scale on the three high strings of the guitar - 3rd, 2nd and 1st strings - you can simply move it closer to the nut or closer to the bridge to change keys.

 

Bottom line - fewer patterns have more applications. All of this applies to chord shapes as well as scale shapes.

 

Memorize the notes on the fretboard from the open string to the 12th fret, they will repeat at that point as you go beyond the 12th fret.

Learn the shapes of chords and patterns of the scales and you can simply move them around to fit.

 

As to how I like to learn, I've been a "learn on the fly" gigger for so long I couldn't tell you. I can make it up as I go if needed. I am NOT a "note for note" sort of music personality, I will play undeniable signature licks as needed but learning all the parts of a song "just like the record" simply makes no sense in context.

 

The keyboardist for the Motown Tribute band I played in put it well. When I passed the audition he gave me a complete book of charts for the songs, in the order that we would play them - 4 sets. Then he said "We have 2 lead singers, keyboards, guitar, bass and drums. Motown records have strings, horns, choirs, piano, organ, 3 guitarists, tamborine, congas, saxophone solos and dance steps. Get the signature licks and do the best you can."

 

Or, the time I was in a Top 40 County Band and the male lead singer said - "You aren't playing that guitar part on this song." I said "Do you want one of the 3 acoustic guitars (including Nashville tuning), the steel guitar, the two electric lead guitars (in harmony) or what? Tell me which guitar part you want me to play and I'll learn it." He stared at me in disbelief, it never occurred to him that there were 6 guitars on the record.

 

For all that, if you lay down a good feel, sing the choruses and have fun, the dance floor will fill up. Maybe there is one musician in the crowd who will be rude or stupid enough to come up to a band member and say "You don't play that just like the record..." Nobody else will care, not even slightly.

 

Do what you can and have fun!!!!!

 

 

Yes KP, reading music on guitar is a different challenge. I'm a pretty good reader on the piano, but I really need TAB on the guitar. Hopefully one day I'll figure it out the guitar fret board!

 

Your approach seems great for cover bands. I take it is that you learn by ear and come up with your own part that fits the song. Just trying to get the feel and some signature lines seems adequate because, as you say, it is often times impossible to have the same instrumentation for a local event band as the original recorded version.

Even when you see the original artist perform live, they more often than not change up the arrangement and instrumentation.

 

Congrats on passing the audition for the Motown band. That's such great feel good music that so many people enjoy, especially during times like these! I hope y'all get out there working soon if you're not already.....

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Yes KP, reading music on guitar is a different challenge. I'm a pretty good reader on the piano, but I really need TAB on the guitar. Hopefully one day I'll figure it out the guitar fret board!

 

Your approach seems great for cover bands. I take it is that you learn by ear and come up with your own part that fits the song. Just trying to get the feel and some signature lines seems adequate because, as you say, it is often times impossible to have the same instrumentation for a local event band as the original recorded version.

Even when you see the original artist perform live, they more often than not change up the arrangement and instrumentation.

 

Congrats on passing the audition for the Motown band. That's such great feel good music that so many people enjoy, especially during times like these! I hope y'all get out there working soon if you're not already.....

 

Thanks, the Motown Band was quite a few years ago. I was with them for a couple of years. It was awesome watching everybody on the dance floor sing along with the songs, we've all heard and loved them.

 

Briefly, back in California I spent 9 years in a band - the lead singer knew literally thousands of songs by memory, including Elvis Presley's entire catalog. We never booked, people called him. We played every Thurs, Fri and Sat and one time I counted 16 gigs in 14 days. I think we practiced 2-3 times at the beginning and then we went to the 3Ps - Paid Practice Program. There was never a set list, no list of songs that Roger knew and he moved quickly from one song to the next. He also played guitar and I learned to read his hands on the fly, my only option for survival. We also took requests, all sorts of them. At one point I switched to bass since we were having problems in that area. I realized that bass is the most difficult instrument in a rock or pop band because you need to KNOW what to play NOW, not fill in from behind on the first verse like a lead guitarst can get away with. I enjoyed it, glad I had the experience. I started on bass so it was great to revisit it.

 

Currently I am in a duo/band up here in WA with another guitar playing singer. He knows a ton of songs as well. Been in this project for 5 years or so and until the pandemic we were steadily booked. I think we've had set lists 3 times and only followed the list once. Same sort of deal, quite a few songs get played often enough that it's comfortable, then there are requests and sudden shifts in repetiore based on audience response.

In both of these bands I played Rock, Blues, Country, Funk, Soul, Folk - pretty much every genre of American music except jazz (which I LOVE but do not play).

 

I am also a songwriter, covers have been a great education in clever chord arrangements, modulations, bridges and all the wonderful things that make a good song just that much better.

It's a common path, the Beatles certainly did their 10,000 hours as a cover band and it made them much better writers.

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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How do yo prefer to learn ?

 

By doing, by practicing, and by a little studying with excellent players here and there........

 

That's right, DBM, man, you got to put in the time, practicing and studying with excellent players sure helps too!

 

I see that you live in Phoenix, AZ. A high school buddy of mine has a band that is based out of Phoenix, I believe. The band is called "Calexico" and my old friend is Joey Burns, who plays guitar and sings with them. He actually was a great jazz and all around bass player (upright and electric) back when I played with him in the high school jazz band . Very talented fellow that lived and breathed music back in the day, as I'm sure he still does.

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Another thing I've been doing lately is to use Transcribe! sw and use my ears to learn the tune. No tabs/notation. If there's a video then it helps to see the area on the fretboard the phrase is being played.
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Another thing I've been doing lately is to use Transcribe! sw and use my ears to learn the tune. No tabs/notation. If there's a video then it helps to see the area on the fretboard the phrase is being played.

 

That seems to be the way the great masters learned, putting in the time and transcribing/copying. It's a step in the learning process that can't be skipped! It seems to me that you have to be fairly advanced to do that though.....

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I like to pick an old tune that I've always admired and wanted to play and sing. Like Ain't Misbehaving, Since I Fell for You, Georgia, etc., that has lots of chords for me to learn. I'll go on YouTube and listen to several versions and try and sing them in the original key that certain original artists have used. But I usually have to transpose them to the keys that fit my voice. I'll take a few YouTube lessons just to feel them out a little. Then I'll go to chordie.com and see if they have a chord chart and transpose them to my key (unless I have already learned the chords on YouTube) and I may use alternate chords. I'll start playing and memorizing the chords and lyrics and put my own little twist in the tune and do my own arrangement. I'll record my tune on my looper and play it back. If I don't sound decent, I'll try and make adjustments to chords, leads, keys, lyrics, etc. If I can't pull it off, I'll toss it. If it sounds OK, I'll really start working on it and dedicate myself to learning and memorizing lyrics and chords, altering chords, working up a lead from my scale work or just chords to play as my lead when playing solo. Anyway, it's a long story and I pick different genres to play in. I have bought a few DVD lessons as well. But I do not copy leads or play note for note or just like the record. I like to improvise and arrange and have fun...like Elvis, Sinatra, and Ray Charles, "I do it my way" ...

 

In your case Montunoman, you have a head start right from the beginning, knowing which genre you want to play, study and perform in. Specializing in a genre will help you learn much faster as you will love what you do and learn the similarities in the various songs that make up the genre. Chords, licks, endings, themes, timing, keys, etc., will come easier with time, experience and the more tunes you learn to play in a genre. Good luck with it and you two have fun with it! :2thu:

Take care, Larryz
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I like your approach Larryz, cherry picking from your favorite artist and coming up this your own arrangement. I love the old standards too, and it so great to listen to the crooners and also the jazzers unique arrangements and interpretations.

Lately I've been listening to James Taylor's album called "American Standard" ( not to be confused with the toilet company : ) that he did in his acoustic style in a quasi Latin way. Maybe you'd like it too?

 

My wife an I, in our keyboard/vocal duo, take the same approach, For example we do some well known songs by artist such as the Beatles, Queen, Eagles, Donna Summers or old standards and play them as salsa,cha-cha-chaa bachata , merengue... With so many great songs out there, I never really had the urge to write, but I do love to arrange and put my stamp on an old classic.

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I've always loved old JT Montunoman, especially back around 1971. Suite for 20G, Steamroller Blues, You've Got a Friend, Rock a bye Sweet Baby James, etc. He really impressed me with his guitar playing, writing and his vocals. Jim Croce was another singer song writer and I'll throw in some Carole King on keys too. Great stuff to draw from back then and on the album you're listening to. I've heard others in Blue Grass put their stamp on MoTown tunes and other genres to include JazzGrass that really impresses me with their improv ability. It's fun to watch people when they recognize the tune being done in a new way. Putting those old Beatles, Eagles, and other greats into your Latin vibe will really get a lot of juices flowing for a lot of people. Maybe a little Reggae vibe can be mixed in on a tune too (like Clapton's Knocking on Heaven's Door) along with some Latin standard Santana! (another favorite of mine)... :cool:
Take care, Larryz
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