Classic sounds with modern faces...

[Sundown]

Hey all,

 

I started recording audio in 1999 and that was only in a DAW environment (I started playing synths and learned MIDI sequencing around 1989). I never had exposure to traditional outboard signal processing, especially classic signal processors. To put it in perspective, I didn't know what an 1176 or Pultec was until UAD started emulating them. Now when I look at studio pictures I see walls of them.

 

Some of the visual recreations of classic outboard gear are impressive in their design details and aesthetics, but I'm not sure that the 'realistic' interfaces provide the best benefit and workflow for someone who didn't grow up with them. For example: A Pultec EQ doesn't have units on some of it's controls (boost and attenuation for example) . A modern interface could easily overcome that, while still providing the classic tone. A modern interface could also offer a spectrum analyzer (think Fabfilter Q3) to give some visual indication of what is happening with the incoming signal.

 

Another example: The LA2A needle meter might have worked great in 1962. It can still work now, but if you gave me a choice between the needle or some comprehensive digital meters for input/gain reduction/output (with peaks and other visual aids), I'd choose the latter every time.

 

I know many of these products cater to professionals who did grow up on the gear, but that's probably less than 5% of the market. The other 95% are guys like me who are learning gear for the first time and may never see a real Pultec, Fairchild, etc. I think it would be awesome if some of the big names (e.g. Waves, UA, PSP, etc.) offered classic skins as well as modern GUIs with more comprehensive controls. The audio engine can remain the same, but having better visual control is always a plus.

 

Maybe I'm out in left field, but when I get a new plugin I'm not always enthused to learn about the cryptic markings or quirks on it's vintage GUI. I'd get to work much faster if the interfaces were designed for quick, intuitive understanding. Sometimes it's cool to read about the history on gear, but getting things done comes first.

 

Am I alone in this?

 

Todd

[KuruPrionz]

With you 100%!!!!

I did play around a bit in tape based studios. I used knobs on stuff mounted in racks. Never a high end situation but the basics as you describe are identtical. If you are using any outboard gear, knobs still work well.

 

For years, I've been saying "My mouse has no thumbs!" "Knobs" on software are stupid and unweildy. Simulated "VU" meters take up more space while providing less information. When it's all you have, you use it. Times have changed, why is progress so bad?

 

One of the biggest reasons I've stuck with Tracktion/Waveform is that the first time I tried it - Tracktion 3 - I immediately noticed that everything was a "slider" of one kind or another and there were NO knobs.

This made me smile and it still does. Even all the basic plugins that came with it were all sliders, very easy to adjust and visually simple to understand.

 

It is my imporession that companies came to the conclusion early on that musicians tended to lock into familiarity so they offered all of this "make it look like the old days" crap. My first daw was Digital Performer, I don't know what it looks like now but knobs were everywhere, palattes looked like a bunch of hippies designed them, all different sizes and shapes and the GUI was just a difficult place to want to play. I hated it and never used it again after the first experience with Tracktion.

 

I just cherry picked a few free VST synths for my Triple Play set up and when I found a recommended one that had sliders, I downloaded it immediately. If it had knobs I needed more reasons to consider it, only took a couple of knob based GUI synths.

 

If I wrote code I would make a universal plugin interface that you could drop any plugin into and it would display it as a functional gui with sliders. I bet everybody would buy one!!!!! Cheers, Kuru

[Mike Rivers]

I think the graphic emulation is a result of so many of the articles by or about famous engineers on the subject of "how I get my fabulous sounds." They always refer to these classic pieces of hardware and how they set the knobs and how much gain reduction shows.

 

When I first got curious about software signal processing plug-ins, I was using Audacity as my DAW. I really wasn't into using a computer for audio as I have a house full of hardware that works just fine, but I was curious about what the rest of the world was talking about. At the time, the GUI part of a VST required some licensed code in order to display the control panel in all its glory, and because Audacity is an open source program, they didn't supply that license. Most plug-ins with fancy graphics would load, but the controls were just a window with sliders. It worked.

 

Personally. I've never developed an ear for the 1176 sound, the Trident A-range sound, or the Pultec sound. I'm not so fussy that I have to use just the right plug-in to get the sound I'm aiming for. I'm an "it's good enough, let's get moving" kind of a guy, and for that, if I want more compression, a slider works just as well as a knob, maybe better.

[Sundown]

Personally. I've never developed an ear for the 1176 sound, the Trident A-range sound, or the Pultec sound.

 

I like the 1176 sound for some things. I used it effectively for a piano solo and some guitar work on two tracks. I never liked the buzzy "hyper" mode (all buttons in, ultra-fast attack and release). If I want dirt I'll reach for distortion or overdrive. Usually I just use 4:1 with reasonably fast attack and release.

 

Strangely, I've never gotten great results from an LA2A or LA3A. I know they're heavily used but I've never found a fit. I'm also not a fan of Pultec emulations. I've never heard the magic that some folks talk about.

[KenElevenShadows]

I do tend to prefer sliders to knobs much more on these plugins.

[Anderton]

Am I alone in this?

 

NOT HERE!! I don't see the reason for devotion to sheet metal in a virtual world.

 

Why aren't faders in virtual mixers curved, so we have a longer travel in a smaller space, and mute/record/etc. switches within the arc? Why don't the faders glow red when you exceed the headroom? Why can't we have more virtual concentric faders so they take up less space?

[Strays Dave]

Along the lines of circular vs vertical faders. I'm using Garageband. When I was setting my panning levels, I had difficulty with fine-turning (note: turning NOT tuning) - getting the knob setting exactly where I wanted it. I thought that maybe Apple in their design wisdom maybe had something like say CTRL + SHIFT and UP or DOWN arrow to turn knobs in a granular fashion. I found none.

 

Are there slider plug-ins for Garageband ? I read that it's an upgrade to Logic Pro. Actually, being the novice that I am, I could probably be content with a combination of keys allowing for fine turning.

[Anderton]

Panpots, at least to me, seem more like set and forget parameters (if you want complex moves, there's always automation). However, they require precision when you do set them. I've always felt the solution was to have a long slider pop up when you clicked on it, after which it would go back its much smaller state.

[KuruPrionz]

Panpots, at least to me, seem more like set and forget parameters (if you want complex moves, there's always automation). However, they require precision when you do set them. I've always felt the solution was to have a long slider pop up when you clicked on it, after which it would go back its much smaller state.

 

This is exactly the behavior in Waveform. There is a box, subdivided into two, one for each channel and one for the output. The top horizontal box is Pan, the vertical one below it is Volume. Click on either one and a much larger display appears, allowing precision adjustment of each parameter. I think that started around Traction 7, which is now Waveform 11.

 

It's a good way to represent basic adjustments, small but easy to find and big when you use it.

[Anderton]

Pop-up controls have been around for a long time, so I wonder why they're not implemented more often.

[KuruPrionz]

Pop-up controls have been around for a long time, so I wonder why they're not implemented more often.

 

Me too!!!!

 

Some crowded interfaces on plugins, would be nice to have the thing you want to mess with get big and shrink back down...

[Anderton]

Another issue to me is I really don't need gorgeous GUIs. I mean, they're nice and inspiring as eye candy, but when something with three knobs and a meter takes up half the screen, I'm just not sure it's worth the space.

[KuruPrionz]

Another issue to me is I really don't need gorgeous GUIs. I mean, they're nice and inspiring as eye candy, but when something with three knobs and a meter takes up half the screen, I'm just not sure it's worth the space.

 

I don't mind if they make it look nice but it should be compact (or offer many options in a smaller space).

 

Both of the Lexicon plugins I added recently (Physion and Micro-Pitch) have several simple sections with useful and different functions. Lots of options and not a lot of wasted space. I do like that concept if it's done well. As I get more familiar with them I have have a feeling some other plugins are going to be ignored and evetually tossed, it's convenient to be able to create so many variations with a single screen.

 

https://www.eventideaudio.com/products/effects/structural-effect/physion

https://www.eventideaudio.com/products/effects/pitch-shifter-auv3/micropitch

[David Emm]

Another issue to me is I really don't need gorgeous GUIs. I mean, they're nice and inspiring as eye candy, but when something with three knobs and a meter takes up half the screen, I'm just not sure it's worth the space.

 

Likewise. I've often wondered whether a synth GUI was a cluttered mess because the function truly called for it or because the designer only had a grid in their heads from A-to-Z. Logic's physical modeler Sculpture feels like a massive set of braces that can pick up radio signals. The AAS Chromaphone puts everything in direct modules you can tweak in an analog fashion. I don't need nostalgia or a dancing robot logo, thanks.

[Sundown]

I don't want to pick on PSP because I think they make great sounding and affordable plug-ins, but if ever there was a need for a modern GUI it's their PSP85 and PSP42 delays. They are vintage Lexicon replicas and even though they are elder statesmen (early 2000's), they are in desperate need of a better interface (particularly the much deeper PSP85). As displays have grown, it's all the more important (these aren't resizable GUIs).

 

I love the sound of these plugins, I *HATE* the interfaces.

 

The other thing I support with plugin replicas is common-sense feature enhancements. For example, if I'm compressing a mix channel, I generally don't raise the make-up gain above the original signal (I use the fader if I want to raise the level). I primarily do this to avoid judging a sound as better just because it's louder. But this is a good example of a situation where an auto make-up gain control could enhance the appeal of an 1176, LA2A, etc. Dialing in the appropriate make-up gain for neutrality is just a waste of time for me, and an "auto" button that you can enable or disable would be a quick timesaver.

 

Todd

[Anderton]

The other thing I support with plugin replicas is common-sense feature enhancements.

 

I think Arturia is good in that respect. They straddle the line between being faithful to the original, while adding options the original never had.