AquilaRift Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 (This was originally posted here in Town Hall, however dB recommended to post it here for more visibility and discussion.) Would it be possible to have a forum or sub-forum to discuss repairing gear? It could be all types of instruments, from synths to guitars, maybe even a section for actual repair techs to let us know where they are or to provide general advice in how to repair some things on our own. In my case, I have a few older somewhat vintage synths that need minor repairs and I could really use some help from knowledgeable people in how to best get it done. From how much things ought to cost, to sourcing the best parts, to finding local service techs, the latter of which I struggle to do where I live. I'm not keen on shipping my older gear around the country to get this work done. It seems that many of the forum members have quite a bit of expertise in this area, which I noted from a recent topic re career change. I do see how some things might be contentious, and we'd need to ensure we aren't posting up proprietary information to avoid legal hassles. We could also cover modding gear (for example, replacing old 3.5" floppy drives with something more modern, and even cosmetic mods if anyone is into that kind of stuff). I know these things are already out there on the net all over the place, but much of it is dated, some of it is inaccurate, and the parts are no longer available, etc. Anyway... just a thought for consideration. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 I have a difficult time seeing a downside to this. All we'd need is a mod or two. dB Quote ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AquilaRift Posted July 3, 2020 Author Share Posted July 3, 2020 Thanks, dB. By the way, I'm not particularly wedded to any idea on how best to make this happen, so I'm open to every possible suggestion. I do know that I'm not a good choice for being a moderator -- that is well outside of my comfort zone in any forum anywhere, and in any alternate universe. It's a time thing, but also I don't enjoy that kind of responsibility. Trust me, no one wants me in charge of anything... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markyboard Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 I suggest we not create another sub forum. There are maybe a dozen members (i.e. fellow geeks) that regularly participate in these discussions. But I think you have way more people reading or at least skimming those threads just out of general interest, learning etc. Its"s among this latter group where you potentially find someone with a similar issue or prior related experience. Create a repair sub forum and I think you lose many of those people. Admittedly guilty of droning on and on about tech stuff that many don"t care about I still think keeping these threads in the main KC forum is of more value than moving it off to a sub forum. These threads do seem to move off the main page fairly quick, but so what? Nothing stops anyone from resurfacing them whenever the mood strikes and I"ve never seen anyone complain. (sorry for the cross-post) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary75 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 It"s a good idea on the surface, but many techs will not share knowledge, either because they do it as a business, or they just aren"t the divulging type. Not just in the keyboard field and not just in this age. Hammonds are susceptible to lack of knowledge as people die off, given the hybrid nature combining both electrical and mechanical aspects of the old organs. You need a jack of all trades with a good brain to fix those. I"ve put loads of videos up on YouTube for my refurb of my C3. More a diary and reminder to me to what I"ve done than anything else, but it shows what can be done. Granted I leave the high voltage side to my old man who knows his way round high voltage equipment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AquilaRift Posted July 3, 2020 Author Share Posted July 3, 2020 I get all of those points made so far. The unwillingness to share specific knowledge was the "contentious" part of my query... That I also understand. As an alternative to a forum, how about a simple directory for techs to list their contact info, geographical location and website. Not an ad section, just a simple directory. That would be an excellent compromise in my view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KuruPrionz Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 redacted... Quote It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markyboard Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 Might be good to review what we already have: Starting at the very top of this KC sub-forum the very first "sticky" thread: Key Topics Under this thread is a Cool Links topic where listing specific repair shops/ technicians etc might be appropriate Lest you think this topic hasn't come up before here's a Grease Pit Section Request And finally my failed attempt to create a recurring topic on repair related stuff: Back in the Grease Pit Edit: Actually that Grease Pit Section Request link isn't quite the same grease pit we were talking about - more like a stink pit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AquilaRift Posted July 3, 2020 Author Share Posted July 3, 2020 Might be good to review what we already have: Starting at the very top of this KC sub-forum the very first "sticky" thread: Key Topics Under this thread is a Cool Links topic where listing specific repair shops/ technicians etc might be appropriate Lest you think this topic hasn't come up before here's a Grease Pit Section Request And finally my failed attempt to create a recurring topic on repair related stuff: Back in the Grease Pit Edit: Actually that Grease Pit Section Request link isn't quite the same grease pit we were talking about - more like a stink pit. Well, that's me caught out ignoring the sticky threads. And I usually read them. Thanks. I will review all of these now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real MC Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 As someone with a long history in synth repair, helping novices in DIY gear repair is not a great idea. This leads to a minefield that I care not to tread. Liability is the big problem. There are lethal voltages inside most of these things. There's no way I want to be held responsible if a novice hurts themselves, and a disclaimer is no longer a bulletproof protection. There's a reason why no magazine carries a DIY repair article or column. Wrongly placed blame leading to defamation. A tech could instruct someone how to fix a problem, then they make it worse due to their incompetence and suddenly it's the tech's fault. Then they go all over the internet broadcasting about a rotten repair tech, they lose customers and their reputation is defamed. Yes this has actually happened to people I know. Vetting end user competence and their tools. There's no way to reliably vet end users receiving my advice of their capability and/or of their tools over the internet. I worked with one guy who couldn't get his soldering work done right - I checked his soldering iron and found that the tip was not properly secured. DMMs are not sufficient for most troubleshooting tasks, and an oscilloscope can give you the wrong result if you don't know how to use it. I was asked to help a tech at work who had problems using their 'scope and it turned out that the scope probe he was using was defective. If internet users don't learn to use their tools then we're back to the defamation problem again. Many used 'scopes are not 100% functional and novices may not even know it, which can deceive them. If you apply too much heat while unsoldering a backup battery it can explode causing physical injury and we're back to the liability issue again. I'm not going to build web resources of proper repair techniques, use of measurement tools, and precautions. That requires a lot of work that I don't have the time or energy for. The internet is a poor resource for learning electronics. I have seen too many websites with incorrect information, even from university websites. Just because it is free does not mean it is correct. I had to turn off IMs in some discussion forums because of too many people asking for free repair advice, especially after one of them tried to shame me into helping him. I may help out with simple problems, but the hard truth is the majority of issues are not trivial. Many problems can't be fixed over the internet and the task requires a competent tech. Yes I write webpages describing how to restore Memorymoogs and Oberheims. I intentionally supply enough information that a competent tech can use going forward, but no more. I may recommend a circuit to resolve a problem, but I won't supply a schematic of my design. Remember the liability and defamation problem. Many owners complain about repair expenses and attempt their own DIY repairs. Don't do it. These are not simple machines. More often then not novice DIY repairs make the problem worse, such as irreparable damage. I'm currently restoring an ARP Avatar and discovered that the previous owner or repair tech had incorrectly routed the AC wiring (!!!). That error led to a hazardous condition where the fuse was no longer effective. Yes there are incompetent repair techs out there. Repair shops are starting to refuse work due to novice DIY repair jobs. I know of a well known one in Europe who will no longer accept repairs on gear from the US. If you do find a shop that will accept your repair, please be open about any DIY work that you attempted. The shop will thank you for it. Don't try to conceal it because the trained eye can spot it right away. My FAQ pretty much spells out why I had to stop fixing gear over the internet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KuruPrionz Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 . You make far too many good points, I've redacted my previous comment. Cheers, Kuru Quote It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timwat Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 Great points re: synths. And perhaps is there room for tips on electro mechanicals? Personally, I'd love to learn some tips to work on my old Rhodes. Or a best practice how to touch up the tuning on one bad string on an upright piano. Or is that too narrow a thing these days? Quote .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real MC Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 Hard to hurt yourself working on a Rhodes, but a Wurlitzer does have exposed high voltages inside. So does a Hammond tonewheel organ. You make far too many good points, I've redacted my previous comment. Cheers, Kuru Fixing guitars and installing Floyd Rose vibratos is worlds apart from fixing synths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyFF Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 There are some repairs that even a relative novice like me can do, repairs that'd probably cost at least $250. I've replaced broken keys on several keyboards, replaced a fader board on a XS7 (unplugging and replacing fader board was all there was to it), recently cleaned out the keybed contacts on a NS 88 Classic. The information to do these repairs is already on the internet. Typically the hardest part is just removing the case to get to the innards. I would never attempt more serious repairs- I sold my NS 88 as is with the backlight for the display not working. No thank you. Though I am tempted, if there was a sufficiently clear tutorial, to add an Aux In to my ES110. Outstanding board, one stupid, glaring fail by Kawai. Quote Numa Piano X73 /// Kawai ES920 /// Casio CT-X5000 /// Yamaha EW425 Yamaha Melodica and Alto Recorder QSC K8.2 // JBL Eon One Compact // Soundcore Motion Boom Plus Win10 laptop i7 8GB // iPad Pro 9.7" 32GB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KuruPrionz Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 Hard to hurt yourself working on a Rhodes, but a Wurlitzer does have exposed high voltages inside. So does a Hammond tonewheel organ. You make far too many good points, I've redacted my previous comment. Cheers, Kuru Fixing guitars and installing Floyd Rose vibratos is worlds apart from fixing synths. I agree. Did you ever install a Floyd Rose in a brand new custom color (candy apple red) Gibson Les Paul Custom with a deadline due to a birthday? I did, stress!!!!!!!! Jigs were all custom, I designed and fabricated them, I had all my ducks in a row. Still, lowering the router into that perfect, beautiful guitar was terrifying. I never got another order lke that, eventually I tossed the jigs. I'd never do one now! Install a K&K in a $3,500 brand new "vintage" Martin small body? I have large hands, came up with solutions and created a document that I submitted to K&K, Dieter emailed me with thanks for the tips. I've no doubt you've had stressful moments aplenty and far more technical knowledge regarding electronics than I will ever have. Guitars have their own set of strategies and fussy owners. Both of us are probably quite resourceful at coming up with solutions for "interesting" problems. Speaking of, I had a small project I needed a metal box, and had an old Peavey speaker out to DI box that sounded bad so I proceeded to gut it. Found a mud dauber's nest in there, long since abandoned. I bet you've found all sorts of stuff inside keyboards that did not belong there!!!! That might make a fun book - Weird Stuff Your Repairman Found. Cheers, Kuru Quote It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real MC Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 Hard to hurt yourself working on a Rhodes, but a Wurlitzer does have exposed high voltages inside. So does a Hammond tonewheel organ. You make far too many good points, I've redacted my previous comment. Cheers, Kuru Fixing guitars and installing Floyd Rose vibratos is worlds apart from fixing synths. I agree. Did you ever install a Floyd Rose in a brand new custom color (candy apple red) Gibson Les Paul Custom with a deadline due to a birthday? I did, stress!!!!!!!! Jigs were all custom, I designed and fabricated them, I had all my ducks in a row. Still, lowering the router into that perfect, beautiful guitar was terrifying. I never got another order lke that, eventually I tossed the jigs. I'd never do one now! Install a K&K in a $3,500 brand new "vintage" Martin small body? I have large hands, came up with solutions and created a document that I submitted to K&K, Dieter emailed me with thanks for the tips. I've no doubt you've had stressful moments aplenty and far more technical knowledge regarding electronics than I will ever have. Guitars have their own set of strategies and fussy owners. Both of us are probably quite resourceful at coming up with solutions for "interesting" problems. Speaking of, I had a small project I needed a metal box, and had an old Peavey speaker out to DI box that sounded bad so I proceeded to gut it. Found a mud dauber's nest in there, long since abandoned. I bet you've found all sorts of stuff inside keyboards that did not belong there!!!! That might make a fun book - Weird Stuff Your Repairman Found. Cheers, Kuru Worlds apart but I wasn't implying that any were inferior. Both are skills that are useful and in demand. Where it gets interesting is when guitar players get into synths. We're talking about a group that is used to a price scale that is 1/10 that of synths. And they have trouble grasping why synth products and repairs are so expensive. At the same time, there are easily 10x the customers for guitar repair work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doerfler Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 but the hard truth is the majority of issues are not trivial. Many problems can't be fixed over the internet and the task requires a competent tech. just like plumbing problems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timwat Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 but the hard truth is the majority of issues are not trivial. Many problems can't be fixed over the internet and the task requires a competent tech. just like plumbing problems Whether those plumbing problems are inside the digestive system or....afterwards. Quote .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 If you have to ask then you probably shouldn"t be trying to fix it. ð But then again. There is only one way to learn. ð¤ Quote "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoodyBluesKeys Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 My profession for a bit over 25 years was largely repair of electronic organs, keyboards, amplifiers, and so forth. I am experienced in gear ranging from all tube circuits, early transistor circuits, early to more recent integrated circuits, and a good bit of mechanical stuff. Currently, I service computers and networks. I'm on a local "Computer Users Group" forum, we used to meet monthly, but the past couple of years has been email based. I made a lot of presentations there, but they were typically on setting up a router, new features in the latest OS release, that sort of thing. I get frequent requests for (free) help. I don't mind using my internet search chops to try to help someone; but hardware issues, nope. I concur with The Real MC. There are times to "hold em" and times to "fold them." I will NOT produce a long post with many steps in order to fix some hardware (or software) problem. I don't want to be blamed when the person gets lost in the process and blows up their OS; or worse, goes into something, gets hold of the +450 volt line, and passes. I assist on this forum and on the "Mastering VAST" forum when it makes sense to me. There are quite a few threads if one goes back some on fixing various issues. I don't think an additional sub-forum is as good as posting them here where they will be seen by a lot more people. Quote Howard Grand|Hamm SK1-73|Kurz PC2|PC2X|PC3|PC3X|PC361; QSC K10's HP DAW|Epi Les Paul & LP 5-str bass|iPad mini2 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markyboard Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 I do all my own plumbing now. Last time I called a professional plumber there was water everywhere. Wasn"t until he completed the work that I found out his last name was Wiki. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KuruPrionz Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 Hard to hurt yourself working on a Rhodes, but a Wurlitzer does have exposed high voltages inside. So does a Hammond tonewheel organ. You make far too many good points, I've redacted my previous comment. Cheers, Kuru Fixing guitars and installing Floyd Rose vibratos is worlds apart from fixing synths. I agree. Did you ever install a Floyd Rose in a brand new custom color (candy apple red) Gibson Les Paul Custom with a deadline due to a birthday? I did, stress!!!!!!!! Jigs were all custom, I designed and fabricated them, I had all my ducks in a row. Still, lowering the router into that perfect, beautiful guitar was terrifying. I never got another order lke that, eventually I tossed the jigs. I'd never do one now! Install a K&K in a $3,500 brand new "vintage" Martin small body? I have large hands, came up with solutions and created a document that I submitted to K&K, Dieter emailed me with thanks for the tips. I've no doubt you've had stressful moments aplenty and far more technical knowledge regarding electronics than I will ever have. Guitars have their own set of strategies and fussy owners. Both of us are probably quite resourceful at coming up with solutions for "interesting" problems. Speaking of, I had a small project I needed a metal box, and had an old Peavey speaker out to DI box that sounded bad so I proceeded to gut it. Found a mud dauber's nest in there, long since abandoned. I bet you've found all sorts of stuff inside keyboards that did not belong there!!!! That might make a fun book - Weird Stuff Your Repairman Found. Cheers, Kuru Worlds apart but I wasn't implying that any were inferior. Both are skills that are useful and in demand. Where it gets interesting is when guitar players get into synths. We're talking about a group that is used to a price scale that is 1/10 that of synths. And they have trouble grasping why synth products and repairs are so expensive. At the same time, there are easily 10x the customers for guitar repair work. I didn't take it that you were comparing, obviously apples and oranges!!! I can only imagine some of the crazy stuff you've dealt with, hat's off to ya! My new way of going about it probably would not work for synths. I find "victim guitars" and buy them cheap. Then I fix them and sell them - making the world a better place one guitar at a time. Just one income stream, very low stress and it makes people happy. Mostly Strat copies that somebody tried to tighten the jack with a pair of pliers and ripped the wires off. A 10 minute once over and onto craigslist. Here and there, one stumbles into something sweeter, 2 years ago I found an old ukulele at Goodwill for $5 that fetched $500 on eBay and I didn't even work on it. Quote It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyFF Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 I do all my own plumbing now. Last time I called a professional plumber there was water everywhere. Wasn"t until he completed the work that I found out his last name was Wiki. Speaking of service calls- even the 'discount' plumbers I've used, these days charge a fortune. Have to say, being a plumber is definitely on my glad-I'm-not list, but when they want $175 to change out an inline copper water valve, a $5-10 dollar part and at most 15-20 minutes of their time, I'm inclined to brush up on my YouTube plumbing skills. And by the same token, the high cost of tech repair on keyboards has usually meant the problem never got fixed. Quote Numa Piano X73 /// Kawai ES920 /// Casio CT-X5000 /// Yamaha EW425 Yamaha Melodica and Alto Recorder QSC K8.2 // JBL Eon One Compact // Soundcore Motion Boom Plus Win10 laptop i7 8GB // iPad Pro 9.7" 32GB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AquilaRift Posted July 3, 2020 Author Share Posted July 3, 2020 Great points re: synths. And perhaps is there room for tips on electro mechanicals? Personally, I'd love to learn some tips to work on my old Rhodes. Or a best practice how to touch up the tuning on one bad string on an upright piano. Or is that too narrow a thing these days? Before Yahoo killed them all, there was an excellent Rhodes service group in Yahoo Groups -- going back many, many years here. You actually had to pass a test to get into the group. LOL. I wonder if they moved somewhere else after Yahoo gave up their groups? I never downloaded the resources available there, sadly. But it had everything you could ever want to fix any vintage Rhodes, and plenty of people to help you out along the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real MC Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 On the subject of a sub-forum, consider the search options. I use Google to search KC, but I wouldn't want the engine to miss the sub-forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AquilaRift Posted July 4, 2020 Author Share Posted July 4, 2020 Having read everyone's posts, and the older stuff in previous key topics, I've kind of gone off of the idea of a repair-oriented forum or sub-forum. Seemed like a good idea when I posted it, and now I'm convinced it probably isn't. Thank you all for your input and comments. So if anyone knows of a good electronic instrument tech in the central IL area, do let me know in a private message, please. Otherwise, I may need to travel up to Chicago, which if I have to do, I will do. There are some things I can do for myself, perhaps like replacing the screens in all of my Wavestations. I'd rather not do them, because I really don't wanna mess it up -- and I'm unsure where is best to source new screens that don't cost a fortune (not a fan of eBay, by the way -- haven't used it in 20 years now). But component level work, such as de-soldering slider and encoder pots off a PCB and replacing those, it's a little bit too fiddly and precise for me, and it's too easy to damage a printed circuit if you're not careful. I also don't own a soldering iron. LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 Sent. PM. There are guys in Chicago that send work to the name I sent. Quote "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markyboard Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 I'm not a big fan of Ebay for parts either. But this guy is very good and responsive to any questions. Which WS models? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AquilaRift Posted July 4, 2020 Author Share Posted July 4, 2020 I'm not a big fan of Ebay for parts either. But this guy is very good and responsive to any questions. Which WS models? Thank you. I have both the EX and A/D models. Screens ought to be the same for both... I don't have the SR, and that was an entirely different screen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markyboard Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 I replaced my A/D display years ago. The replacement came from Telesis but they appear to no longer be in existence. I would pursue the reco from CEB assuming you're not wanting to do this yourself. I cant remember if there was any soldering involved (probably not) but it was a lot of disassembly as I recall which you may not be comfortable doing yourself. If you are willing then I recommend the Ebay person I linked to above. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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