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Sort of OT: Are prices on New Keyboards, etc , too high ?


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I thnk the flagship prices serve a purpose for new R&D - product design, system architecture, software development, testing, etc. There is up-front investment to create these where they don't exist and all of the risk is on the company. Early adopters and loyal customers will pay a premium to get the newest gear that uses this R&D. These manufacturers understand that they will exhaust pent up demand and early adopter customers and will have already been planning to trickle down their technology into less expensive forms, packaging and pricing. That's why you have your Montage and then MODX, Kronos and then Krome (and other derivatives of Kronos engines), Supernaturals and FA, Forte and PC4, etc.

 

The manfuacturers also put their v1 products out before they are done. It usually takes a couple of releases of firmware updates to stabilize the product, fix bugs and complete the feature specs. This all helps to actually reduce risk to manufacturers, get revenue in sooner and reduce risk, which ends up benefitting the customer who will ultimately get more for less when the releases advance and features trickle down.

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I have no doubt. Korg , Roland and Yamaha can easily afford to reduce their flagship MSRP by 25%.

 

I am referring to my gross margin analysis of Yamaha as sufficient proof of a large amount of headroom on pricing.

 

A 25% price reduction would not ' hurt ' their operations, it would not affect R& D over the next 10 years, the planet earth would not spin back wards, the universe would stay intact.

I'm trying to follow along, but I'm not sure how that would work. What am I missing?

 

If MSRP is $4,000 and the sale price to the distributor is at 25% of MSRP ($3,000), then a 42% gross sales margin for each instrument would be $1,260 (42% of $3,000). With SG&A taking up another $870 (29%) that leaves $390 in income (13% of $3,000) per $4,000 MSRP board. How does the math work to drop the MSRP by 25% ($1,000) and everything is OK?

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Pro keyboards have been ~$3000 here in Australia since the 1980s.

When I left school, the hot keyboard was the DX7, which was IIRC $3195.

 

Makes a Nord Stage look cheap doesn"t it?

 

I"ve often wondered if the price point in musicians minds has kinda been at the same level for decades.

Wasn"t a B3 about the same back in the 1960s? That was as much asa house back then.

 

Keyboards are cheap. Problem is our income hasn"t really gone up, hell I can do gigs today for less than I made back in the 1980s.

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I have no doubt. Korg , Roland and Yamaha can easily afford to reduce their flagship MSRP by 25%.

 

I am referring to my gross margin analysis of Yamaha as sufficient proof of a large amount of headroom on pricing.

 

A 25% price reduction would not ' hurt ' their operations, it would not affect R& D over the next 10 years, the planet earth would not spin back wards, the universe would stay intact.

I'm trying to follow along, but I'm not sure how that would work. What am I missing?

 

If MSRP is $4,000 and the sale price to the distributor is at 25% of MSRP ($3,000), everything is OK?

 

not sure where you got that. Sale price to distriibutor ?

 

did you know Korg USA is a subsidiary of Korg Inc [Japan] ?

 

https://www.korg.com/jp/corporate/englishinfo/

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What about a 75-90% price reduction? I know it sounds like a lot, but it makes sense to me.
Yamaha MX49, Casio SK1/WK-7600, Korg Minilogue, Alesis SR-16, Casio CT-X3000, FL Studio, many VSTs, percussion, woodwinds, strings, and sound effects.
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I picked up a new, fully warrantied, on display ES110 for 25% off of the normal $700 price. The unit had barely seen any action, this being covid-19 time, and I also didn't receive a box. However, from this same outfit, he would have given me a brand new, unopened box with a brand new board for the same price. I also don't have any return privileges

 

Which leads me to believe that the dealers margin is somewhere around 35-40%.

 

Which surprises me. I don't know how things work with retail that has products that can go from $100 to $6,000, like Yamaha, and that's not even their high end stuff like consoles. Does their $100 board have a 20% dealer margin, and their $6,000 genos has a 50% margin?

 

I'm surprised that there isn't an online seller like ProAudioStar, but even leaner, who don't offer returns, only exchanges. But even if they could consistently sell their products for at least 20% off, they wouldn't be able to advertise them at that price.

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Which leads me to believe that the dealers margin is somewhere around 35-40%.

 

Which surprises me. I don't know how things work with retail that has products that can go from $100 to $6,000, like Yamaha, and that's not even their high end stuff like consoles. Does their $100 board have a 20% dealer margin, and their $6,000 genos has a 50% margin?

 

I'm surprised that there isn't an online seller like ProAudioStar, but even leaner, who don't offer returns, only exchanges. But even if they could consistently sell their products for at least 20% off, they wouldn't be able to advertise them at that price.

 

 

Hi Randy, I can only focus on the flagships of the 3 Big Dogs.

 

When I purchased my Kronos 88 from a dealer in the Midwest , they showed me their invoice from the Korg Disti.

 

The dealer/retailer made 10% of the sale price to me. This was 9 yrs ago.

 

10% is skimpy, as in very small profit margin.

 

Somewhat related,, GC doesn't carry Kronos on the floor. The assumption is they

can't generate enough profit margin on a sale.

 

when I call around to buy a 2nd Kronos, Factory sealed A, from well known retailers,

they stick to MSRP. $3899.

 

when I try to negotiate, they steer me to a return, or a refurb. Or whatever they call it.

I do not want a Kronos B stock.

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[

 

I have no doubt. Korg , Roland and Yamaha can easily afford to reduce their flagship MSRP by 25%.

We could demand what is fair. If we choose to. Etc etc

 

Objectively I agree with you on the big three being able to reduce by 25%

 

My question then becomes subjective:

 

Why should they? What is "fair"?

Then once you determine what "fair" is how do you demand it? Vote with your dollars.

 

Even after that, if the company is selling the number of units they want to sell at a given price, what is their incentive?

 

I knew you would jump on my post.

 

Thank you.

 

Yamaha or Korg makes $850 on the sale of a Montage or Kronos to you.

 

I am a man of the people, the regular guy, the working stiff, the person who just

does his best to pay his bills every month.

 

Thus, I think, in my perfect world, Yamaha or Korg REDUCES their profit margin

of the sale by $400. And the corporation makes $450 on the sale.

 

The sale price is suddenly reduced by $400

 

what a diabolical idea , some might say.

 

I happen to side with the working guy who would be better off

with the extra $400.

Why fit in, when you were born to stand out ?

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Several issues come into play when considering a new flagship KB besides the initial investment.

 

1.Paying gigs are no higher than what they were back in the 70's.

 

2. Paying gigs have dried up, big time, Its very difficult to spend 3 to 4K on a workstation these days unless you are not relying on bar gigs or some private parties to pay for your new KB. These days, the cost of a new KB comes out of YOUR pocket. Shop around for the best deal you can find and suck it up.

 

3, What is described as a "workstation" today is not a workstation in my opinion. Back when the Yamaha ES8 was introduced back in the early 2000's, that KB had a 16 track recorder, and a sampler. Taking a sample of a sound that is not available. I played classic rock songs for years using those features in order to play live as a 1 man band. I got jobs at clubs and parties where the people that were doing the hiring did not want or could not afford to pay a band. Also, they wanted to get up and dance to the music. An issue is that bands priced small clubs and parties out of the customer base.

 

Another issue is that bands were usually too loud for a small to medium size room. I heard this complaint all the the time.

 

The KB manufacturers eliminated the 16 track recorder AND the Sampler in newer models. The reason? They wanted musicians to use a DAW via a computer instead. This adds additional cost to the formula, additional complexity to song creation, and things that can go wrong on a gig. I can't tell you how many Posts I read on various musician websites that complained that the DAW didn't record after touch and other features that came with the KB.

 

Finally, a DAW and a computer means you have to spend the time learning the USER INTERFACE in order to get it to do what you want it to do. That took too much time away from the PRACTICE I needed in order to play professionally. I did not have the NEED for a DAW to make rock songs, and I did NOT have the time or the patience to deal with learning everything I needed to do to make the system work. No Thank You.

 

 

Mike T.

Yamaha Motif ES8, Alesis Ion, Prophet 5 Rev 3.2, 1979 Rhodes Mark 1 Suitcase 73 Piano, Arp Odyssey Md III, Roland R-70 Drum Machine, Digitech Vocalist Live Pro. Roland Boss Chorus Ensemble CE-1.

 

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I personally think, that todays $3000 keyboards are over priced. Especially the co's of such

boards that have been milking the same old cow for 5 years, 10 years. and so on.

 

Ad thats not all, maybe todays keyboard products and other high priced components over

$1500, is over priced.

 

I'm not impressed by your argument, because you haven't made an argument. You've stated an opinion but provided no support for it. Then, when someone disagreed, you said "ok, prove it," when you haven't even attempted to prove your own thesis.

 

d it's better.

 

Whew, you throw a lot of blah blah around. I did articulate keyboards over $3000. You know them.

 

But I will provide the Obvious examples. Kronos is over priced. Montage is overpriced. The +$2500 Kurzweil models are pricey .

 

Thats a fair start. So sorry you weren't impressed or 'sold '. I don't see that as being necessary.

 

Its essentially about opinion. everyone has an opinion.

 

Kurzweil has always had high prices on their equipment. But look at what you get today from them compared to their original K250. That was well over $12,000. You had to buy an expensive Mac to save user samples. It only had 12 not polyphony, mono sampling, and no built-in effects.

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I have no doubt. Korg , Roland and Yamaha can easily afford to reduce their flagship MSRP by 25%.

 

I am referring to my gross margin analysis of Yamaha as sufficient proof of a large amount of headroom on pricing.

 

A 25% price reduction would not ' hurt ' their operations, it would not affect R& D over the next 10 years, the planet earth would not spin back wards, the universe would stay intact.

I'm trying to follow along, but I'm not sure how that would work. What am I missing?

 

If MSRP is $4,000 and the sale price to the distributor is at 25% of MSRP ($3,000), everything is OK?

 

not sure where you got that. Sale price to distriibutor ?

 

did you know Korg USA is a subsidiary of Korg Inc [Japan] ?

 

https://www.korg.com/jp/corporate/englishinfo/

The distributors and retailers need to make money too. What part of the sale price are you attributing to profit for them? Regardless of any number you use for distributors and retailers, manufacturers with a 13% margin (your number, not mine), can"t afford to reduce price by 25%.

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I have no doubt. Korg , Roland and Yamaha can easily afford to reduce their flagship MSRP by 25%.

 

I am referring to my gross margin analysis of Yamaha as sufficient proof of a large amount of headroom on pricing.

 

A 25% price reduction would not ' hurt ' their operations, it would not affect R& D over the next 10 years, the planet earth would not spin back wards, the universe would stay intact.

I'm trying to follow along, but I'm not sure how that would work. What am I missing?

 

If MSRP is $4,000 and the sale price to the distributor is at 25% of MSRP ($3,000), everything is OK?

 

not sure where you got that. Sale price to distriibutor ?

 

did you know Korg USA is a subsidiary of Korg Inc [Japan] ?

 

https://www.korg.com/jp/corporate/englishinfo/

The distributors and retailers need to make money too. What part of the sale price are you attributing to profit for them? .

 

 

You seem to overlook that Korg USA is a subsidiary of Korg Inc { Japan ]

 

Why is that significant ? Korg Inc owns most or all of the stock of Korg USA.

 

Subsidiary accounting is complex. Your '25%" profit in this situation is pure assumption.

 

Since assumption is your starting #, and largely speculative, I cannot comment on how you play thru the #'s.

 

There is excellent efficiency by having subsidiaries like Korg USA to handle distribution into the channel.

 

Korg is a smart, and well run, and successful co. That is a way of saying very profitable.

Like or even more than Yamaha.

 

I wouldn't lose 1 second of sleep of Korg taking on ' market risk' . They know exactly

what they are doing, and I believe they are tightly managed, and highly focused on their

bottom line. Same with Yamaha as their financials prove.

Why fit in, when you were born to stand out ?

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Dude, you're all over the board here. Based upon the information you've provided, it's total nonsense that Korg, Roland, and Yamaha can "easily afford" drop their MSRP pricing by 25% and not have it hurt their operations or affect R&D. Run the numbers any way you want, it doesn't work. Even if 50% of MSRP was profit to the manufacturer (a ridiculously, unrealistically high number), cutting MSRP by 25% would result in the manufacturer having to produce, sell and support at least twice the number of units to maintain the same amount of profit - which no responsible business would do. If you can't understand that concept, then it's useless to continue the conversation.

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Hmmm.....

 

Back in the day, I paid around $2K for a CP30, around $2300 for an SK30, $600 for a Rhodes, $500 for a Moog Rogue. My Motif runs circle around all of them and has a form factor that's svelte by comparison. The Rhodes was neat but only made one sound (or a few variations with pedals and Dyno My Piano conversion). My Motif has dozens of Rhodes sounds. I could go on with this reasoning but everyone already knows all this.

 

I'd love to pay $1 for a Kronos, but that doesn't make sense. What about $1000?? That doesn't make sense either. Using the argument that the flagships should all be $400 less doesn't make sense either. It's arbitrary. Sure, I'd love to save $400 (crap, I scour the web to save money on everything I buy).

 

The reality is if all those boards were $400 less, I don't think it would make 2 cents difference in how many they sell. Those that want the features won't be turned away by $400. Those that want features and a lower price will go for the value products (MODX, Kurz PC4, etc.).

Kurzweil Forte, Yamaha Motif ES7, Muse Receptor 2 Pro Max, Neo Ventilator
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cutting MSRP by 25% would result in the manufacturer having to produce, sell and support at least twice the number of units to maintain the same amount of profit -

 

LOL

 

The old "we'll make it up in volume" mantra ....

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With competition as fierce as it is, niche products with low total sales volume and high R&D costs, I think high end keyboards are priced reasonably.

 

The only other possible answer is that one entity owns Yamaha, Roland, Korg, Casio, etc. and they are a gravy-sucking pig. I left Behringer out since they ride on the backs of previously done R&D for the most part and ARE gravy sucking pigs. Plus you could probably beat a pile of Behringer keyboards into rubble with a Korg Triton and the Triton would still work.

 

If one of those companies could sell an innovative and ergonomically satisfying top tier keyboard for less than the competion, they would already be doing it. It's called "eating their lunch."

 

If Korg could "eat Yamaha and Rolands lunch" they would. The others would do it as well.

 

It really is that simple...

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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This sounds like a Gearslutz thread --

 

Why is the Moog One $6,500 and the Behringer Model D $300?

 

I don't mind the posts debating the various points, or non points , if you will

 

Owners care deeply about their instruments. Its an extension of them.

I am an artist, too, I get it, feel it.

 

I also believe its useful to be scrutinizing on what we spend our $3000-$4000 on.

 

There is considerable behind the scenes with the 3 Big Dogs.

 

Which is why I believe we should challenge our thinking.

Go where you haven't gone before, IOW.

Why fit in, when you were born to stand out ?

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[70's Songwriter]

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With

 

If one of those companies could sell an innovative and ergonomically satisfying top tier keyboard for less than the competion, they would already be doing it. It's called "eating their lunch."

 

If Korg could "eat Yamaha and Rolands lunch" they would. The others would do it as well.

 

It really is that simple...

 

You should remind yourself that Yamaha sits on the Board for Korg Inc of Japan

 

They have a very close business partnership. IOW, they do not 'surprise ' each other.

I suspect there is coordination.

 

Roland also seems to mimic flag ship pricing.

 

I tend to think the 3 Big Dogs are friendly in their shared business endeavors.

 

I don't see any ' lunch eating ' to use your phrase, between the 3 Big Guys

Why fit in, when you were born to stand out ?

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I personally would want to spend up to $250 on a Kronos or Montage, I don"t understand how it doesn"t work that way.
Yamaha MX49, Casio SK1/WK-7600, Korg Minilogue, Alesis SR-16, Casio CT-X3000, FL Studio, many VSTs, percussion, woodwinds, strings, and sound effects.
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With

 

If one of those companies could sell an innovative and ergonomically satisfying top tier keyboard for less than the competion, they would already be doing it. It's called "eating their lunch."

 

If Korg could "eat Yamaha and Rolands lunch" they would. The others would do it as well.

 

It really is that simple...

 

You should remind yourself that Yamaha sits on the Board for Korg Inc of Japan

 

They have a very close business partnership. IOW, they do not 'surprise ' each other.

I suspect there is coordination.

 

Roland also seems to mimic flag ship pricing.

 

I tend to think the 3 Big Dogs are friendly in their shared business endeavors.

 

I don't see any ' lunch eating ' to use your phrase, between the 3 Big Guys

 

Gotta love conspiracy theories!!!1 :laugh:

 

I guess there are multiple interpretations possible. I see it with camera companies recently as well, although there is considerable "lunch eating" going on and smaller companies are throwing in the towel.

Or, as my brother (who spent his life in tech) says "At the cutting edge, there is bleeding."

 

So, why haven't companies from India or China introduced ground breaking new synths with high quality builds at low, low prices?

Seems like quite a few are buying the Hydrasynth and not because it is cheap, it is not. It offers potential that others are missing, ergonomics and possiblitlies.

R&D is not cheap. It isn't going to become cheap. How many 88 key Motifs do you think they sell? I'm guessing not many, cost per unit is high.

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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I've often wondered about r&d, at US prices. Most tech pros in the US are pulling down $80-120k a year, so if you have the equivalent of 2-3 years work by top engineers, you'd have to pay off $200-300,000 just for r&d. Must be why they recycle so much code, sounds, etc.

 

If you don't want to spend $3-4000 for a board, don't. It takes more time and patience, but B-stock, refurbs, lightly used, etc., can typically get you 20-30% off. And being higher end boards, they're usually not built so cheaply, they last longer. And if you're willing to deal with the uncertainty of buying used, no warranty, you sometimes can save up to 50%. I figure that if I've saved that much money on a purchase, then having an out-of-pocket repair is not so bad, esp if it doesn't happen.

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I've wondered how Yamaha could be making money on the Genos.

.

 

The answer is simple, because buyers are stupid.

 

Who in their right mind buys a Genos when for the $6000 cost of a Genos they could buy a Korg PA4X and $1800 worth of other kit.

Col

 

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There is considerable behind the scenes with the 3 Big Dogs.............

 

Which is why I believe we should challenge our thinking.

Go where you haven't gone before, IOW.

 

GregC,

 

I'm actually Greg C as well (same first name and last initial as your user name).

 

I enjoy discussing a lot of things here at Keyboard Central and this thread has been interesting.

 

I have no way of knowing what could be happening with the Big 3, maybe nothing, maybe they're guilty. I get you think they could charge less. Not sure how challenging our thinking, etc., is going to change anything with the Big 3 or what they charge.

 

Where are you going with all this?

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The making money problem is tech's don't rule the ideas that are needed to make great synthesizers, even though of course these are electronics and digital signal path designed technological machines. So you can pay a tech what ever, just like IT-ers they're not necessarily going to give you results you want just because of their technical know-how, it's a matter of the right sound dna, and the various theoretical foundations necessary, which goes in the direction of science and of course a thorough understanding of musical elements that go in the high grade records.

 

The unwillingness of technical people of a number of persuasions to expand their musical horizons probably doesn't help much either, so it ends up as business politics for some of the important musical instrument players, which doesn't result in a great desire to betray the heritage of great musical instruments and marvelous productions.

 

Theo V.

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There is considerable behind the scenes with the 3 Big Dogs.............

 

Which is why I believe we should challenge our thinking.

Go where you haven't gone before, IOW.

 

GregC,

 

I'm actually Greg C as well (same first name and last initial as your user name).

 

I enjoy discussing a lot of things here at Keyboard Central and this thread has been interesting.

 

I have no way of knowing what could be happening with the Big 3, maybe nothing, maybe they're guilty. I get you think they could charge less. Not sure how challenging our thinking, etc., is going to change anything with the Big 3 or what they charge.

 

Where are you going with all this?

 

Hi Bif.. where am I going ? Is your question, correct ?

 

You quoted it... challenge our thinking ...

 

I think knowledge is power.

Why fit in, when you were born to stand out ?

My Soundcloud with many originals:

[70's Songwriter]

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With

 

If one of those companies could sell an innovative and ergonomically satisfying top tier keyboard for less than the competion, they would already be doing it. It's called "eating their lunch."

 

If Korg could "eat Yamaha and Rolands lunch" they would. The others would do it as well.

 

It really is that simple...

 

You should remind yourself that Yamaha sits on the Board for Korg Inc of Japan

 

They have a very close business partnership. IOW, they do not 'surprise ' each other.

I suspect there is coordination.

 

Roland also seems to mimic flag ship pricing.

 

I tend to think the 3 Big Dogs are friendly in their shared business endeavors.

 

I don't see any ' lunch eating ' to use your phrase, between the 3 Big Guys

 

Gotta love conspiracy theories!!!1 :laugh:

 

h.

 

It really is that simple

 

Its all a big hoax ! ;)

[j/k]

Why fit in, when you were born to stand out ?

My Soundcloud with many originals:

[70's Songwriter]

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I've often wondered about r&d, at US prices. Most tech pros in the US are pulling down $80-120k a year, so if you have the equivalent of 2-3 years work by top engineers, you'd have to pay off $200-300,000 just for r&d. Must be why they recycle so much code, sounds, etc.

 

Agreed. Yamaha published a group picture of the Montage team when it was released. I counted 50 heads. That's just staff at Yamaha Japan and didn't include developers, marketing or manufacturing people in other countries. I don't have a way to estimate staff size for Genos, but the Genos UI is a complete re-write just like Montage.

 

Yamaha's current keyboards are based on a new generation tone generator/effect integrated circuit -- the SWP70 -- which first appeared in a mid-level arranger, the PSR-S970. Yamaha spreads the cost of chip development across all affected products: arrangers, synthesizers and digital pianos. Yamaha also have their own integrated circuits specifically for lower end keyboards. They also share the SSP2 mixing/effects IC between Steinberg UR, digital mixers, Reface DX/CS and Montage/MODX. All of this chip development adds to non-recurring costs and, of course, the price.

 

As to Genos, retailers advertise Genos at $6,000 in the USA. That['s the "Minimum Advertised Price" or "MAP" which is set by Yamaha in the retail agreement. "Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price (MSRP)" is $6800 USD. Neither MAP or MSRP run afoul of U.S. law. Nothing forces a retailer to actually sell at either MSRP or MAP. "Open box" is one way around MAP, BTW.

 

The recent action against Yamaha, Roland, Korg, etc. is initiated by the UK Competition and Markets Authority (CMA). Anti-competition laws, of course, vary across countries and economic zones. Quoting the CMA release "All of these companies have been fined for implementing resale price maintenance (RPM) designed to restrict retailer freedom to set prices online by requiring their musical instruments to be sold at or above a minimum price." That's the difference between "suggested" and "required."

 

Genos is kind of orphaned in the U.S. Most units are sold by independent retailers -- not SW, GC and the rest of the usual suspects. I bought from an independent retailer and paid around $4,000. I compared against Nord Stage, for example, and the prices are ball park. Yeah, there's apples vs. oranges, different use cases, yada-yada, but Genos and Nord Stage are "premium" offerings.

 

Sorry for the length and detail (tl:dr) -- pj

 

Blog: sandsoftwaresound.net

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It really is that

 

Its all a big ;)

[j/k]

 

Yep. Just go buy a decent MIDI controller, a mid-range laptop and stuff it with cool plugins. There is where the bang for the buck lives...

 

Simple.

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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I've often wondered about r&d, at US prices. Most tech pros in the US are pulling down $80-120k a year, so if you have the equivalent of 2-3 years work by top engineers, you'd have to pay off $200-300,000 just for r&d. Must be why they recycle so much code, sounds, etc.

 

Agreed. Yamaha published a group picture of the Montage team when it was released. I counted 50 heads. That's just staff at Yamaha Japan and didn't include developers, marketing or manufacturing people in other countries. I don't have a way to estimate staff size for Genos, but the Genos UI is a complete re-write just like Montage.

 

Yamaha's current keyboards are based on a new generation tone generator/effect integrated circuit -- the SWP70 -- which first appeared in a mid-level arranger, the PSR-S970. Yamaha spreads the cost of chip development across all affected products: arrangers, synthesizers and digital pianos. Yamaha also have their own integrated circuits specifically for lower end keyboards. They also share the SSP2 mixing/effects IC between Steinberg UR, digital mixers, Reface DX/CS and Montage/MODX. All of this chip development adds to non-recurring costs and, of course, the price.

 

As to Genos, retailers advertise Genos at $6,000 in the USA. That['s the "Minimum Advertised Price" or "MAP" which is set by Yamaha in the retail agreement. "Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price (MSRP)" is $6800 USD. Neither MAP or MSRP run afoul of U.S. law. Nothing forces a retailer to actually sell at either MSRP or MAP. "Open box" is one way around MAP, BTW.

 

The recent action against Yamaha, Roland, Korg, etc. is initiated by the UK Competition and Markets Authority (CMA). Anti-competition laws, of course, vary across countries and economic zones. Quoting the CMA release "All of these companies have been fined for implementing resale price maintenance (RPM) designed to restrict retailer freedom to set prices online by requiring their musical instruments to be sold at or above a minimum price." That's the difference between "suggested" and "required."

 

Genos is kind of orphaned in the U.S. Most units are sold by independent retailers -- not SW, GC and the rest of the usual suspects. I bought from an independent retailer and paid around $4,000. I compared against Nord Stage, for example, and the prices are ball park. Yeah, there's apples vs. oranges, different use cases, yada-yada, but Genos and Nord Stage are "premium" offerings.

 

Sorry for the length and detail (tl:dr) -- pj

 

Blog: sandsoftwaresound.net

 

Yeah, this discussion makes me think of the smaller companies, like several in Italy, that have to compete with the big boys and girls. It must be daunting to even consider, what with all the years of brand recognition and IP the larger companies have.

 

I'd heard Yamaha rolls their own chips, and I wonder if they're the only ones who are at large enough scale and diversity to afford what must be a tremendous up front cost. Any ballpark of the r&d and manufacturing expenses involved? But yeah, the Kronos uses a tiny Atom CPU! It literally pays to be on top of the heap!

 

+ 1 with Biggles on wasting money on the Genos when the Pa4x is 1/3 cheaper and arguably a better board. Once again, you trust a brand you know. My sister who grew up playing piano wants to buy a console piano, and of course Yamaha is her first choice, partially because they're the most available in music stores to be tried out, but also cause she knows the brand.

 

Another thing to consider- there's probably more leeway for companies to boost prices in the upper end of the market. If you're in market for a TOTL board, a few hundred dollars probably won't make or break a buying decision difference. Whereas in the lower end of the market, I'm guessing that Yamaha floods the market with cheapie keyboards as a way of building brand recognition, and in that end of the market, $10-20 can make a big difference in saleability. So perhaps we need to consider their full range of products to understand where they deliver bang for the buck vs luxury/features for mucho bucks.

Numa Piano X73 /// Kawai ES920 /// Casio CT-X5000 /// Yamaha EW425

Yamaha Melodica and Alto Recorder

QSC K8.2 // JBL Eon One Compact // Soundcore Motion Boom Plus 

Win10 laptop i7 8GB // iPad Pro 9.7" 32GB

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