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Backward Learning?
#3051706 06/29/20 09:26 PM
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FoxC. Offline OP
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Please don't laugh... A friend is 60 and I can't make this short. Many months ago he got a Maestro/Gibson LP Jr. off Craigs list. Started trying to re-live the early days of youth when he was hanging with RATT. He was getting better, but the guitar was flat when you toned it down, tuner problems, not much sound. He's bought 3 more fair guitars, and gave that one to me... I don't play yet! I grew up a textile machine/auto mechanic. So I learned how one works, and how to apply that knowledge. New EZ locking 18:1 tuners (don't use them that way, figured out the old-school way). Replaced the heavy brass locking bridge with an aircraft aluminum intoneable G/B unit.Put in a pro series single coil Zebra Alinco V. DiAdario XL's... I have no clue how many hours I have in setting it up. Neck rod, bridge height, string length intonation, and string action. Everyone that has played it, is in awe for a piece of crap china guitar. Now I want to play... but the way my friends do it, don't seem to work so well. How does a majorly mechanical (56 tomorrow) man begin to learn the right way? I don't want to play songs... just guitar... About to forget the most impacting change on it... did a 1950's rewire on the tone capicitor. Took it off the tone ground, and moved it to the vol. out. Turn the tone all the way down... still got mids and highs. Did'nt do the Bumble Bee cap., can't see that kind of $ in a cheap guitar. That thing has a sound...

Last edited by FoxC.; 06/29/20 09:51 PM. Reason: Forgot the thing that mattered most.
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Re: Backward Learning?
FoxC. #3051744 06/30/20 01:00 AM
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Welcome aboard!

I have to say, I learned more than one instrument, and one of the best investments I ever made was taking a few, in person lessons when learning guitar.

Why?

Because I was cocky from already knowing how to play some other stuff, so I figured I could teach myself. Some can, I couldn’t, in all honesty. I tried for months. When I got frustrated with my lack of progress, I bit the bullet and took some lessons. By doing so, my teacher corrected my (BUNCH) of mistakes, often in real-time. And he taught me about certain habits that would serve me well as I went forward without his tutelage.*

You don’t need many to get started. But if nothing else, it will pay dividends in proper physical posture & technique so you don’t hurt yourself.







* if I had kept up with them. I can be a lazy, stubborn mofo.


Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap”

My FLMS- Murphy's Music in Irving, Tx

http://murphysmusictx.com/
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Re: Backward Learning?
FoxC. #3051759 06/30/20 02:55 AM
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Welcome Aboard FoxC! +1 A few lessons would be a good way to get started... cool


Take care, Larryz
Re: Backward Learning?
FoxC. #3051837 06/30/20 04:01 PM
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I learned how to play the blues picking up a hitchhiker with an acoustic guitar, I put him in the bed of my pickup truck. After a mile or so I stopped the truck and asked someone else in the cab to drive, and I climbed into the back of the pickup with him and asked him what he was pickin. It was bluesy and it sounded good so he showed me what I learned later on was the minor pentatonic scale. From that I knew a little help would go a long way in my musical progression so I took a few lessons from a blind guy in North Jersey named Al Delrusso (I think that was his name) He showed me the major scale, and how to play it in all 5 positions.

Some years later I was playing in my fathers office located on a major corner in my home town. During a pause in my awful noise-making (Twin Reverb with 2 JBL K 120's in it turned all the way up) I heard this polite little knock on the office door. I opened up the door and this lovely young woman was standing outside and said and I quote. "My Name Is Emily Remler https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emily_Remler and I am a Jazz Guitarist, and I was walking by and heard you playing so I thought I would offer you some lessons for 10 bucks a half hour". I was 33 years old at this time and Emily looked like she was about 17 or 18, so I said "show me" and handed her my Ibanez artist and she started to play, then asked me to turn down the amp, and she did some fancy jazz stuff (She had just finished her years at Berkelee School of music) So I said I will take an hour right now, and an hour every day that you are here vacationing on the resort Island where I lived at the time. She was there about a week or so, and she taught me the modes, and taught me how to think in phrases, and "flavors" musically. I would also jam with her for an hour or so after each lesson, to get the essence of what she taught me.

After a few years I heard about this phenomenal jazz guitar teacher Bob Aslanian who lived near me. His claim to fame is; he taught Al DeMeola guitar and later on Bob and Al collaborated on some musical books. Bob was awesome on guitar he played stuff I never thought possible with such ease and skill. He made me work like a dog just to understand how to prepare myself for actual playing out. He gave me ways to play scales like 3rds, and triplets, and that gave the sound of the scales whole different flavors. We would also jam after each lesson and I could stop him and ask him what he just did, and he would break it down so I could understand it. I always took my lesson from him as his last lesson of the day so we could do that jam afterwords.

Emily was "feel, and phrasing",, Bob was "slave over that fret-board until you have it down". Then take all you have learned and craft it into your own lines.

Although my basis of learning was jazzy, I never really connected with the jazz sound. I wanted to play the blues, and blues based rock which are both basically minor pentatonic scales. I dabbled in country as well which uses more major pentatonics and major scales. I balked at leaning and using arpeggios because I wanted to NOT THINK what notes to play over what chords. I wanted to go from sound to sound with my ear instead of thinking where to place the notes against which chords. Over time I learned how to do that by playing stuff over and over until I got the feel of that.

One of Emily Remler's important statements to me was "there is freedom in the minors". Meaning it is more likely that in the minor chord progressions most notes in a corresponding scale will work over any chord in the corresponding chord progression, whereas in the majors some notes work less well over some of the chords in the progressions.


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Re: Backward Learning?
FoxC. #3052137 07/02/20 03:48 AM
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I always take forever to reply. My local music shop is where the Avett Brothers took lessons.Like it... don't want to play it. I'm from Rimertown (Rimer, NC now). My grandfather (by second marrige) was a world champion fiddle player. I used to travel over 5 or 6 states with him for conventions, met Roy Clark, Anderson, Flatts and Scruggs, Minnie Pearle, (grandma could care less). He wrote 18 records, never wrote a note, did not know how. I have a few old music books... no score. Played every instrument in the band... he would grab one and say "you do this"... never had a music lesson. Natural talent. I have his best fiddle, 1938 hand-made German thing that can't be traced...no maker sticker in it, it's burned in by the founder of the company. I have many of grandpa's old tools, all German. But the bow is Australian, horse hair, re-strung about 15 years ago. Hangs next to my brother's accoustic Bentley. They started in 83, he was killed in early 86... until four weeks ago it hung with 5 strings loose... I strung it after 30 years. I really would like to play. Grandpa said " boy, I'd teach you how to play... but I don't know how, I just do)! Mom was West Coast Mowtown, "step" Dad was Country, Grandpa Bluegrass, uncle Marine Black Beret... introduced me to Rock.I really enjoy songs about cars, Dick Dale, Hot Rod Lincoln, Mabiline, One Piece at a time...like Justin Johnson, Chris Rodrigues and Abbey the spoon lady (local from Ashville), and Juzzie Smith... I think the most multi-talented individual period?Used to get together under the elm tree at grandpa's... shuck corn, string beans, make lye soap... they would play, we'd cook fish and taters, hand crank ice cream, pitch shoes... miss those days...

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Re: Backward Learning?
FoxC. #3052195 07/02/20 04:46 PM
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The in-person lessons is a good idea, but the main thing is to pick the silly thing up and play it! And don't be too dismissive about learning songs. The way I learned was by learning one song, then another, and another etc etc. I started seeing similarities in the way songs were put together, and how doing a particular thing in one song carried over to another thing in a different song. Finding out that a I-IV-V progression could start anywhere on the neck and the relationships of interval between the chords stayed the same even if the key of the song was different was total revelation to me.


Always remember that you�re unique. Just like everyone else.



Re: Backward Learning?
picker #3052198 07/02/20 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by picker
The in-person lessons is a good idea, but the main thing is to pick the silly thing up and play it! And don't be too dismissive about learning songs.

THIS!!!! To draw a dragon, knowing how to draw a chicken would be helpful.

The most important thing I know about the guitar is that everything I've learned can be moved up and down the fretboard and the fingering remains identical.
You do have to allow for the nut being a fixed position and compensate accordingly by using fingers to add those notes but once you go beyond the "Cowboy Chords" and get out into the weeds it's Ally Ally Outs In Freeyo.


There is never enough time to be in a hurry...
Re: Backward Learning?
FoxC. #3052428 07/03/20 09:42 PM
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I've taken everything ya'll have said seriously. I looked up possible instructors near me. I live in the sticks, eight + miles from any city limits. Concord's the closest shop (Mullis Music, where the Avett Brothers took lessons)... booked solid. Charlotte's 49 is next, 30 miles away. What got me was the cost of training... I worked as a "fixer" in the mill, prodouction pay, on top of hourly. One night my machine sewed, folded, and packaged 2998 single bed Martha Stewart sheets. $24+ an hour... Another night, Royal Velvet queens, $37 an hour. Average pay... $17.79 an hour. Not bad money for small town southern boys with minimal education. So how is it that a dollar plus a minute is accepted for someone that claims to be able to teach guitar? Just going to start asking around about retired players that teach from home. Has to be some... quite a few trophies of my grandfather's were local, multiple from Gold Hill. Has to be people that want to share knowledge... I'm one that does. Buy me a six pack, I'll teach you how to put brakes on on your ride...

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Re: Backward Learning?
FoxC. #3052431 07/03/20 10:25 PM
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I get it, I live in a small rural town also, 30 miles to the nearest music store, 20 miles to a supermarket, etc.
My Grandpa was mantainece man at a sugar mill till they closed down and family before that worked in the fields. After the mill closed he was a self employed handyman, could fix or build anything. He and a bunch of other ex-mill works built a house for my mom and I after I was born in 2000.
If you have a laundromat or a neighborhood grocery or a bar you could hang a note asking if anyone would be able to give you some lessons. People in small towns always take care of there own.


Jenny S.
Re: Backward Learning?
FoxC. #3052478 07/04/20 03:01 AM
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Thats funny... grandpa was a cabinate maker till he got brown-lung. Then he went to work in maintenance at the hospital here.. Built his house on a GI bill... 18 acres. Was a member of the USO.... 6' 4" at 260... did black face comedy in overalls. To look at him, never think he would have a sense of humor. He could play... look up Joe Drye and the Mountain Ramblers on Youtube... no videos, but a few songs... ages ago

Re: Backward Learning?
FoxC. #3052528 07/04/20 02:38 PM
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FoxC, There are a lot of good lessons on YouTube worth checking out. Many of the teachers have subscription sites and DVD's if you find a good one that you like. I have bought a few DVD's and have taught this old dog a few new tricks. There is no substitute for a good teacher to get you started with, but sometimes they may be too far away and/or too expensive. I only took lessons for 3 months and back then it cost me $5 bucks and a six pack of Bud (actually only 3 buds as I drank 3 of them myself LOL!). Many of us are self-taught. Back in the old days we didn't have all of the tools that are out there on-line. We learned from copying records until we wore them out! Anyway, good luck and have fun with it. The journey can last a life time and I know you will keep at it! Running an ad and posting your contact info at local bulletin boards may help you run into someone in your town that would enjoy getting together for free and/or that 6 pack! thu


Take care, Larryz
Re: Backward Learning?
FoxC. #3053316 07/09/20 01:17 AM
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Odd I got response from Northern California. I'm originally from Hanford California (cow town mexican at one point). Had a Shetland Pony(evil bitch). Beach Boys did a bunch of charity shows on the coast. Jan and Dean, The Impacts... all just put on music... Dick Dale was the stuff... how do you pick like that? "lefty"... thought though... if you are left handed "like Hendrix"... then you can mirror your mentor! Though Jimmy was self taught... Have watched Stevie play with Dale... he was struggling with it...Papa Chubby is bad... Orinthani, Samantha Fish... how do you choose a direction?

Re: Backward Learning?
FoxC. #3053325 07/09/20 03:07 AM
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Originally Posted by FoxC.
Odd I got response from Northern California. I'm originally from Hanford California (cow town mexican at one point). Had a Shetland Pony(evil bitch). Beach Boys did a bunch of charity shows on the coast. Jan and Dean, The Impacts... all just put on music... Dick Dale was the stuff... how do you pick like that? "lefty"... thought though... if you are left handed "like Hendrix"... then you can mirror your mentor! Though Jimmy was self taught... Have watched Stevie play with Dale... he was struggling with it...Papa Chubby is bad... Orinthani, Samantha Fish... how do you choose a direction?

Hah! Hanford!! We used to play The Bastille there, I'm from Fresno.

Couldn't take the hot summers anymore, much better up here. Still miss some friends but they are too stupid to come up here in August when it's 116 down there and 85 here.

Start with the source, Muddy Waters or Howlin Wolf. I'm left handed but somehow always played right handed. That's a right handed guitar in your avatar picture, you play it upside down?


There is never enough time to be in a hurry...
Re: Backward Learning?
FoxC. #3053329 07/09/20 03:29 AM
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FoxC, I love watching the Dick Dale and SRV video of them playing Pipeline together! Lots of cool surf memories in it. You have a right handed guitar as Kuru pointed out, so since you still have a choice, I would consider learning to play it right handed (even if I was a lefty). It can be done, just take a look at any of the Glen Campbell videos. A great lefty that played righty... cool



Take care, Larryz
Re: Backward Learning?
FoxC. #3053351 07/09/20 12:34 PM
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I was given my first guitar when I was 10, now I am 70 and still learning.

Do have face to face lessons even if they are by video link.

As for playing styles do check out Justin Sandercoe, he is an Aussie living and working in the UK.

The thing about Justin is that he teaches a vast array of styles with most of the courses being free but with optional paid for media being available.

He also has some excellent free Apps available on the usual App sites.

https://www.justinguitar.com/

Last edited by Biggles; 07/09/20 09:51 PM.

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Re: Backward Learning?
FoxC. #3053408 07/09/20 05:40 PM
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I second Justin. I have watched a couple of his free online lessons and he is easy to learn from. Jim

Re: Backward Learning?
FoxC. #3053860 07/12/20 07:45 PM
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I guess I made too many left handed notations... I am so right handed it's stupid. I was born artistic, draw, paint, even carve some. One thing that keeps me from just jumping in and learning to play, is thinking... "I can't write my name lefty, what if I don't have enough coordination with that hand to finger the chords"? I'm actually stronger left hand when wrenching, but bust knuckles when I do it. I don't have the pin point control to stop when it breaks loose. I've decided to start trying soon. I have to get a mind set... this I know will take some structured study. I'm not one that dedicates to things randomly, and to my credit, I've never failed at anything I tried... strive to be the best. Hopefully guitar won't be the first thing I can't do. My little brother was dominant lefty, but he was learning right handed... I never got to ask why, he was killed at just shy of 13 years old. I was 21, already moved away to Myrtle Beach when I graduated at 17. I didn't see him often. The guitar on my avitar is the Gibson/Maestro that I did the complete overhaul on. Sound and Action now, it amazes the people that have picked it. One friend brought a Charvell/Jackson and Fender Studio recently to pick with other friends. He looked at mine and said "can I play it like I own it"? 2 1/2 hours later his were still in the car! For a single pickup guitar, it's got some attitude... gotta learn to play it...

Re: Backward Learning?
FoxC. #3053865 07/12/20 08:19 PM
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Oops... had to correct my 100 mph brain. Gibson Studio! How does China made Gibsons become made by Maestro? They manufactured the very first distortion pedal ever made? Outside of the fact it has a nice neck, rosewood board, smooth fret ends, and a heavy plywood slab body (18 lbs.)... the rest was pure junk!


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