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Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3049272 06/17/20 04:32 AM
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Maybe this is slightly OT but I mentioned a relationship ending do to this. I'm talking a romantic relationship. I had no idea that an innocent text could be interpreted the way it was on a Friday night. My son was in the Pinewood Derby State competition during the day Saturday while she worked and we were supposed to go out Saturday night. I had limited cell access and was involved in the event with my son. I tried to reply to her messages and figure out what she was upset about. By the time I was done with the pinewood derby stuff and she was off work, she moved solidly into passive aggressive mode and I was very confused. At the end of the day, she wanted me to apologize for saying something I didn't say, but she interpreted. So there's the conundrum. If you apologize, you admit you said what they think, even though you didn't. If you DON'T apologize they aren't satisfied. We went round and round as I tried to explain, until I finally just broke up with her. I can't stand that kind of BS and games, but it all started by my own poor communication via text.


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Re: Bookings are coming in!
J. Dan #3049301 06/17/20 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by J. Dan
I wouldn't read too much into a text message. I've had relationships end from misinterpretation of a text message. If it bothered you, call him.


Yep. I've worked with, and played with, plenty of people that don't express themselves well via email or text. Worse are the people who over-express themselves and read emotion into every sentence you write. I've been part of giant email band threads where it just keeps winding up as the imagined slights pile up. Those kind of people require voice inflection or even in-person body language in order to know what you really intended; I've had to put some folks on phone-only contact, anything remotely important I call them up or ask they call me. Smilies and emoticons help but even those get ignored sometimes in favor of whatever imagined tone they think you were using. smile

As far as right and left--agreed. There are the stereotypical righties with the "government can't tell me what to do" but there's also a lot of older folks I know that are Conservatives that are self-quarantining. There are a lot of younger people disregarding this right now and I reckon many of them aren't political at all. They are just bored and unwilling or unable to grasp that their actions may affect others. I know one guy in his 50s with the unfortunate attitude of that this will kill off the weakest of us, it's not such a bad thing. Some people engaged in risk when they protested, but in the minds of many that was worth the risk. In general the one thing in common is that on thewhole people in this country--for better or worse--don't have as much sense of "society" as some others. So it would be expected IMO that America is not going to deal as well with something that needs to be dealt with on a societal "we're all in this together" level.

Last edited by Stokely; 06/17/20 12:26 PM.
Re: Bookings are coming in!
J. Dan #3049360 06/17/20 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by J. Dan
Characterizing it as wanting a haircut doesn't help. How about wanting to make a living so you don't lose your home and so that you can buy food? As businesses reopen, even where it's not required, I'm seeing most people wearing masks and using common sense social distancing. Even just walking around the neighborhood, folks will walk out into the street off the sidewalk to provide distance then we pass.

Sorry, I get what you're saying and I agree in principle, but I talk with a LOT of folks to whom it literally IS about a haircut, or at least the FREEDOM to go get one. Incredibly self centered, in my opinion......

Re: Bookings are coming in!
Stokely #3049361 06/17/20 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Stokely
Originally Posted by J. Dan
I wouldn't read too much into a text message. I've had relationships end from misinterpretation of a text message. If it bothered you, call him.


Yep. I've worked with, and played with, plenty of people that don't express themselves well via email or text. Worse are the people who over-express themselves and read emotion into every sentence you write. I've been part of giant email band threads where it just keeps winding up as the imagined slights pile up. Those kind of people require voice inflection or even in-person body language in order to know what you really intended; I've had to put some folks on phone-only contact, anything remotely important I call them up or ask they call me. Smilies and emoticons help but even those get ignored sometimes in favor of whatever imagined tone they think you were using. smile

The other side of this is, as I said, I've known this guy for YEARS an we've worked together often. If it were someone I didn't communicate with often I wouldn't give it a second thought, but our relationship, even via text, was never that brusque.....

Re: Bookings are coming in!
J. Dan #3049390 06/17/20 07:40 PM
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As far as short text messages, maybe the guy has an Apple Watch. There are a bunch of default replies you can tap like "Hello!" "What's up?" "On my way." "OK" "Sure!" "No problem!" "In a meeting. Call you later?" etc. so he might have just tapped one of those.

Originally Posted by J. Dan
Maybe this is slightly OT but I mentioned a relationship ending do to this. I'm talking a romantic relationship. I had no idea that an innocent text could be interpreted the way it was on a Friday night. My son was in the Pinewood Derby State competition during the day Saturday while she worked and we were supposed to go out Saturday night. I had limited cell access and was involved in the event with my son. I tried to reply to her messages and figure out what she was upset about. By the time I was done with the pinewood derby stuff and she was off work, she moved solidly into passive aggressive mode and I was very confused. At the end of the day, she wanted me to apologize for saying something I didn't say, but she interpreted. So there's the conundrum. If you apologize, you admit you said what they think, even though you didn't. If you DON'T apologize they aren't satisfied. We went round and round as I tried to explain, until I finally just broke up with her. I can't stand that kind of BS and games, but it all started by my own poor communication via text.
Remember when people used to call each other, and lots of times it wouldn't go through for no good reason? My wife and I had an incident like that. I dropped her off by the door of a place because it was pouring rain, and I parked at the far end of the lot but was stuck in the car or I'd get drenched. She called me dozens of times and when I finally got to where she was she was pissed that I "ignored" her calls. I'm not faulting her then or now, other times it happened the other way around as well. So I said, let's not get mad at each other when it was the failure of technology, okay? It took some conscious effort on both our parts.

Similarly, a friend of mine had an incident where one tried to get a hold of another when they knew the other was out, for whatever reason it didn't go through, and they got mad. It was a dumb thing, but like your case Dan, when you're just dating it can end the relationship and in this case it did.

Back on the subject, I see bands here announcing dates, but cases are going up, setting new highs. No thanks. I'll sit this one out.


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Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3049409 06/17/20 08:18 PM
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This case here is why indoor bars (and gyms, and churches etc) are really iffy ideas right now.

https://nypost.com/2020/06/16/florida-healthcare-worker-15-friends-catch-covid-19-at-bar/

Every single person in their group tested positive.

Not so bad for *them*, as none of them (so far) have had any serious illness from this. Not so good for any other people they might have spread this to that aren't as lucky or free of illness (they all look very young.)

“The state opens back up and said everybody was fine, so we took advantage of that.” What can you say to that smile Who could be more trustworthy than the state of Florida after all (I'm in it so I get to say that.)

My buddy is staying at the beach this week, and he and his wife (both in their 60s) are being extra careful. Right next door to their spot is a buffet restaurant that is normally packed with--as he put it--"older folks than me" smile It's one of these places with long lines to even get in sometimes. Well, yesterday he said it was as packed as ever. Could there be a worse place to go right now than a buffet restaurant, especially when you are a senior? I really fear for what we might see in two or three weeks.

Last edited by Stokely; 06/17/20 08:23 PM.
Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3049458 06/17/20 11:48 PM
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Buffet? I'd rather play a nice spirited game of Russian Roulette.....

Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3049492 06/18/20 03:34 AM
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Playing gigs feels unsafe to me at this point.

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Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3049511 06/18/20 05:01 AM
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I never trusted buffets even back before the great plague. After working in restaurants back in the ancient before time I barely trust even eating in those. You really don't want to know what happens behing the double swing doors.

Re: Bookings are coming in!
eric #3049518 06/18/20 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by eric
Playing gigs feels unsafe to me at this point.

I was called to do my annual gig for the Public Counsel at the Beverly Hilton in Sept. This year's William O. Douglas honoree is John Legend. I told him him to put me down as tentative. If he needs a solid commitment from someone, I said to call someone else. I want to see where we're at in a few months with this in LA. Right now, the numbers keep going up. Especially in Orange County. facepalm

At the Beverly Hilton, it's a gigantic ballroom usually filled with hundreds of people. Right now at least, no thanks, no way. Maybe if they were honoring Jarrett, Chick, Herbie or Kenny Barron, I'd at least consider it. smile cool

Re: Bookings are coming in!
Jr. Deluxe #3049530 06/18/20 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Jr. Deluxe
I never trusted buffets even back before the great plague. After working in restaurants back in the ancient before time I barely trust even eating in those. You really don't want to know what happens behing the double swing doors.

This is the truth...one of my first jobs (and one of the hardest I've ever done in my life) was as a "barback" at a very popular bar restaurant. Let's just say that those glasses that you see at the bar, I'm not going to say those really get all that clean, especially during a busy time. Maybe it's ok, the alcohol helps sterilize things (?) The fridge in the restaurant was....iffy....

I drove out to a property we own that is getting some fixit work done. This took me past a big chunk of Orlando and at the lights I had a chance to eyeball people coming in and out of stores and other places. I revise my mask percentage downward to 10% based on that trip. I saw people at 5 or 6 bus stops crammed into the little roofed area (it was light rain) and not one had a mask on. The local news was showing vid taken in the last couple days from the airport and you only saw a mask here and there, they had employees in the vid not wearing them. People were in the same crowded lines as usual waiting to check in luggage, no social distancing to be seen. I wouldn't be flying period short of some critical reason....in short, driving through town looked very close to "normal". Crowded parking lots, few masks. Guess we'll see. I feel somewhat vindicated cancelling my kids' sports programs this summer, something I agonized over. My co-worker has her kids in multiple programs though. There's some conjecture that kids not only aren't getting this as much but aren't spreading it to adults nearly as much as you'd think--but I need more evidence from studies to go with that thought.

Last edited by Stokely; 06/18/20 12:17 PM.
Re: Bookings are coming in!
J. Dan #3049537 06/18/20 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by J. Dan
Maybe this is slightly OT but I mentioned a relationship ending do to this. I'm talking a romantic relationship. I had no idea that an innocent text could be interpreted the way it was on a Friday night. My son was in the Pinewood Derby State competition during the day Saturday while she worked and we were supposed to go out Saturday night. I had limited cell access and was involved in the event with my son. I tried to reply to her messages and figure out what she was upset about. By the time I was done with the pinewood derby stuff and she was off work, she moved solidly into passive aggressive mode and I was very confused. At the end of the day, she wanted me to apologize for saying something I didn't say, but she interpreted. So there's the conundrum. If you apologize, you admit you said what they think, even though you didn't. If you DON'T apologize they aren't satisfied. We went round and round as I tried to explain, until I finally just broke up with her. I can't stand that kind of BS and games, but it all started by my own poor communication via text.

Sometimes it's worth it to just apologize and move on, even if you know you weren't in the wrong.


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Re: Bookings are coming in!
Stokely #3049553 06/18/20 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Stokely
There's some conjecture that kids not only aren't getting this as much but aren't spreading it to adults nearly as much as you'd think--but I need more evidence from studies to go with that thought.

The only 2 people I know of personally, that have contracted COVID, are a couple in their mid 40's who got it from their young child. They recovered at home and were back at work after the required time.

I'll do every outside gig I can (so far it's only been one). Indoor gigs are the ones I'm leery of, although I did play piano for 3 nights running at a restaurant. All staff required to wear masks and the place looked funny with half the tables removed. No stools at the bar either. It was the early part of the week and there were less than half the allowed customers even on the busiest night (at least the ones that were there tipped well). Hope to start a new non-music job next week, minimal contact involved. Got bills, need money.

Funny about Florida..at Walmarts and grocery stores in MS the masked outnumber the unmasked, and by a significant margin. Some open air venues have got too crowded and the police shut them down. A 10 pm curfew is no longer in effect, as of this week.

Re: Bookings are coming in!
pinkfloydcramer #3049560 06/18/20 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by pinkfloydcramer
Funny about Florida..at Walmarts and grocery stores in MS the masked outnumber the unmasked, and by a significant margin. Some open air venues have got too crowded and the police shut them down. A 10 pm curfew is no longer in effect, as of this week.

To be fair, I've heard from others in stores that they see everyone with masks on. It may depend on the area, or the store, or the time of day changing the makeup of the crowds.

I think seeing the people waiting for the bus without masks--shoulder to shoulder at the bus stops--was the most disheartening thing I saw on that trip.

Re: Bookings are coming in!
Stokely #3049563 06/18/20 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Stokely
There's some conjecture that kids not only aren't getting this as much but aren't spreading it to adults nearly as much as you'd think--but I need more evidence from studies to go with that thought.
There's some evidence that kids don't have many of the ACE2 receptors that the virus enters your system through. Those develop later, starting around age 12 and increasing as you get into adulthood. This is an hypothesis at this point. But it explains why young kids don't get severely ill from the virus and don't spread it as easily as adults. There are several references if you google ACE2 and children and COVID-19. Here are a couple: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2766522, https://www.nature.com/articles/s41390-020-0881-y_

Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3049606 06/18/20 08:25 PM
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Thanks El Lobo.

There's a train coming down the tracks for our family, and that is when my youngest starts high school in the fall. This summer we have had to limit his activities just as we are doing our own. My oldest also, he's going to college so he'll be happy staying away anyway smile But having a kid come back every day from high school, hard to see how you can avoid exposure. Quarantining apart in the same house seems iffy at best.

Interesting, I was on a work zoom call where a couple people got tested and results back in 20 minutes while they waited. That would be simply awesome if the tests are accurate.

Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3049612 06/18/20 09:11 PM
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The education element is interesting and I also would like to thank you El Lobo for sharing this information.

My Ex Wife is in education as are many of my friends and there are a lot of competing interests trying to figure out what to do this fall. The options range from continuing to stay home and do zoom classes, to reduced class sizes by splitting classes and doing every other day with distancing and disinfection guidelines (my son's middle school proposing this), to full on resumption of classes.

Evidence suggests there probably isn't much danger to the younger kids, but the teachers are exposed potentially to high and consistent viral loading. My ex said that if they have symptoms they are forced to stay home for 2 weeks (even with no testing) and would have to take personal time for those 2 weeks. If they don't have 2 weeks of personal time banked, then they don't get paid and aren't allowed to work, even though they aren't given a test. So I can see the standpoint of the teachers and the teachers union.

The other side is the parents who have to work and either would have to hire sitters or stay home from work if their kids aren't in school. Kids forced to stay home often means parents forced to stay home, which has an impact on families that can be very serious.

All that said, per El Lobo's post, based on age, it seems maybe kids of an age that are getting more likely to be infected and spread are also old enough to stay home alone while their parents work. So maybe elementary and middle school go back with some provisions for safety for the teachers while high school continues online and zoom.

Just a thought.


Dan

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Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3049613 06/18/20 09:25 PM
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That's awful about the teachers having to take personal days. Of all the professions that should be given importance I'd put teachers high on the list. I was pretty close to being one myself (elementary ed) but decided to go into IT--in some ways I regret that decision but the low pay and lack of respect from the school system were too much for me (among other issues). My brother is an ICU nurse and I'm really worried about him if/when this hits the fan.

I know I hope my kid is able to go to high school, because this has not had a great effect on him (and likely most kids). Hell it's had a bad effect on most of us I reckon. I honestly don't see how it can happen knowing that's two months off and Florida just registered a record number of cases.

Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3049617 06/18/20 10:08 PM
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regular school (non-college) are going to be a mess since so many are over crowded to start with. About the time I finished high school they started was special version of my high school for students for a multitude of reason regular high school didn't work. Since in my in day if you hair touched the collar of your shirt it was too long (yes, I'm old). So musicians in band some went to the special high school and I had a number of friends that went. The school was really loosely run so I got to go and hang out and visit a couple times. What is was was two big open classrooms with desks down the middle. All sorts of supplies and reference materials around the classroom. Then two or three teachers for each classroom. Students were given study guides and workbooks for the grade level they were working on when ready tests to take to pass to next level. Students could work at any pace they wanted with general timeframes. Student could take a break whenever they wanted as long as they didn't disturb the others. When student needed help or advice the teacher would work one on one with them. They would have a classroom presentations occasionally. So student worked, took tests, and moved thru pretty much the same material the regular high school student did and would graduate just the same. I'd say a big portion of the students finish high school faster working on their own. Something like with today computer based course seems like it would work and social distancing would be easier to insure. Seem like in modern world that could be a better education model, by putting more responsibility on the individual student.


Then for colleges I was a programmer at UCLA and one thing we heard constantly from the administration is we need to bring in more money, but the campus is already too full. So streaming online classes is what the university was pushing for, they figured with online classes they could increase enrollment by 50% and bring in a lot more money. So they were experimenting with it and students like it. Where it was having trouble when I was there is the instructors and teachers they wanted more money and started fighting over who owned copyright of the class materials they teach. So online college works and only crowding on campus was during mid term and finals when online student had to on oncampus for testing.

It's 2020 time to move education into the steaming age too.

Re: Bookings are coming in!
Docbop #3049654 06/19/20 02:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Docbop
It's 2020 time to move education into the steaming age too.

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Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3049655 06/19/20 02:34 AM
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All joking aside, there are now so many human activities that people are willing to conduct remotely. Education is one. My last three doctor visits were done remotely. Realtors are conducting virtual tours of properties. Job interviews for remote jobs.

Live music, eh, not the same really.


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Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3049702 06/19/20 02:10 PM
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Is this now the Covid 19 thread? Hard to keep track. It's a highly transmissible topic.

California is getting stricter with its mask wearing rules. Where I live in Marin County most people pay attention and follow rules. The County sets strict rules and enforces them. That means it's less likely we'll see local gigs anytime soon. I'm content with that tradeoff. Sometimes what's best for you is also best for the population at large. This is not one of those times.

It's interesting if you look at all the virus-related threads on this forum (some of which have been deleted, so the archive is incomplete), how optimism has waxed and waned. I'd say about a month ago optimism was peaking. Now it is apparent that in the US the most we've been able to do to the curve is reduce its rate of increase. But it's still increasing and that's in the middle of summer. Look at the statistics, not what people say about the statistics. The way things are going there will be gigs in Madrid before there are gigs in Marin.


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Re: Bookings are coming in!
Adan #3049720 06/19/20 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Adan
Is this now the Covid 19 thread? Hard to keep track. It's a highly transmissible topic.

Yeah it seems that way rolleyes Props to cphollis, RandyFF, Delaware Dave, Escape Rocks, Al Quinn, MotiDave, Moonglow, area51recording, Dave Ferris, pinkfloydcramer for their gig related posts - especially to those who have done them.

I check this thread daily. I want to know how things are going for others, because I'm trying to make decisions for myself. It's not worth a gig report because it's not the same thing you guys do, but I did a gig last Friday. It was supposed to be a one-off, but response was so great that they want me to do more. Numbers in my county are fairly low - around 1 in 1000. But it's an indoor club - a rather large one, but not the outdoor venue I was hoping for.

It helps temper my somewhat reckless enthusiasm when I read what kinds of things you guys are taking... and what you're not. So please don't let this thread go too OT. It has the potential to be a continuous rolling thread, and a valuable resource to all of us throughout the pandemic.

Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3049729 06/19/20 04:34 PM
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Caveat: I'm no expert!

Any gig I'd do, I'd try to make sure I had a fan blowing from behind me (where hopefully there'd be no other band members or patrons). I generally bring mine anyway keep cool smile Beyond the obvious advantage of being "upwind", a fan may help to disperse the concentration of virus, this appears to be the main danger. Outdoors has a lot of swirling air and breezes and that's one reason the experts think it's much safer. The virus spreads out (which sounds scary, but the concentration reduces) and ends up landing on things. I'd bring multiple fans if I had them.

However, an indoor place with AC--meaning lower humidity-- and little to no outside ventilation might mean that the virus would continue to float around and gather over time from all the people in the room. In such a case a fan might not help. Wear a mask if you can IMO. Make it a cool black one with hotrod flames on it wink

Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3049755 06/19/20 05:30 PM
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It's too bad the band I used to frequently fill in with isn't around anymore (band leader passed away last July). That band was named "Contagious".


Dan

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.
Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3049760 06/19/20 05:37 PM
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I accepted (conditionally) my first gig back. Middle of August, with my jazz trio. I told the guys (both of whom don't seem to be as cautious as me) that with it being two months away, it'll either be on the downhill slide, or static (and as I said earlier, for some reason we don't have a LOT of virus activity......yet) or it will be armageddon, in which case they'd have to cancel or get a sub. Both of them were cool with it, and even though they're more cavalier with it, they understand my trepidation.....

Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3049784 06/19/20 06:24 PM
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Smalls is back but online no audience just the a few Smalls staff and maybe a friend or two of the band. They removed the chairs so can see the behind the camera how people are hanging out. Smalls appears to of rearranged thing a bit so looks like a little more room for the band to spread out. The bands playing some wearing masks and some can't horn players. Bands seems pretty comfortable. Smalls doing the shows in the afternoon not at night easier for all and they now put their live shows on YouTube and FB so lots of live music. All shows are archived but there is a monthly fee for the access to the archive. Archive money gets divided up and given to the musicians in the videos that are watched.

Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3050104 06/21/20 12:00 AM
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We’re already getting summer gigs by calling our show a Protest with Live Music.
Masks for 10 bucks each and we fine people 20 bucks for breaking social distancing guidelines.

Gonna get some../


Magnus C350 + FMR RNP + Realistic Unisphere Mic
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Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3051156 06/26/20 05:49 PM
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Now that about a month has passed, I'm curious how things are going for those of you that are doing live gigs? Is anyone playing in venues where the band and patrons are wearing masks and socially distancing on the dance floor? That's my main sticking point with any future gigs - I'd really rather avoid this by playing outdoors in a large enough setting that it's safe to not need masks.

Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3051158 06/26/20 05:55 PM
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I haven't been, but 3/5ths of my band has still been gigging. I expect that just stopped with the no-alcohol pronouncement that our Governor just made after 8942 state cases from yesterday alone, with an increasing % of positive tests.

From what they have been saying--not a single person has been wearing a mask at their gigs, possibly the servers being an exception, not sure. Indoors, outdoors, doesn't matter. Obviously every place and state may be different.

We are still working through the first wave, which was temporarily slowed down by social distancing and some shutdowns. Florida got this late, we are heading to where NYC was quite possibly.

Last edited by Stokely; 06/26/20 05:56 PM.
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