dalpozlead Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 Why do I have to buy a new $ 3,000 workstation with sequencer and lots of sounds just reissued from tons of past gear (both I wont use) just to have access to a decent keybed?! Where are the future for tons of relabeling patches and rebranding? Any gear since 1997 with real groundbreaking sounds... I'm mad... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marczellm Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 What about a controller keyboard? Quote Life is subtractive.Genres: Jazz, funk, pop, Christian worship, BebHop Wishlist: 80s-ish (synth)pop, symph pop, prog rock, fusion, musical theatre Gear: NS2 + JUNO-G. KingKORG. SP6 at church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Song80s Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 obviously you can buy a Roland 88 controller. a serious key bed. as far as the sounds you want, that is per your requirements. If you are unhappy about $3000 workstations , that the pricing is inflated, I agree 100% with you. I started a topic 2 weeks ago, asserting that Kronos, Fantom, Montage were all similarly over priced as the 3 big dogs dictate pricing. You should be aware, that 90% of posters here, that participated on my topic, disagreed with my assertions. I recall 3 posters agreed with me. Even after I analyzed Yamahas financials and detailed their hefty gross margin, I don't recall anyone changing their mind, that they had no problem spending $3000-$4000 for the keyboard. Not to re-hash, but the price is high and folks are willing to go there. And there we are. Quote Why fit in, when you were born to stand out ? My Soundcloud with many originals: [70's Songwriter] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalpozlead Posted June 16, 2020 Author Share Posted June 16, 2020 A 88 key controller may be an option, but i cant find anything good for a synth action (a killer one like the FS from yamaha) All options now is to go for an used synth (heavy and sometimes without USB connection), clean it from the past 15 years of use, and use it as a controller (as I did with my DX7..., if wasn't for the limit of the MIDI messages I'd happy). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 Keep the keyboard you have and are happy with. Supplement it with a laptop and an AU/VST host like MainStage, GigPerformer, Cantabile. Pick and choose your sample libraries and soft synths. Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffincltnc Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 Value is in the mind of the buyer. I don"t know what kind of music you make or how you make it but I think this is a great period of choices for all kinds of musicians. Quote Yamaha U1 Upright, Roland Fantom 8, Nord Stage 4 HA73, Nord Wave 2, Korg Nautilus 73, Viscount Legend Live, Lots of Mainstage/VST Libraries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docbop Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 Well if you really feel there are lots of people who feel like you then start your own business and make what you want and sell it. Find out about the R&D costs and size of a niche marketplace. Then market research on how often keyboardist's upgrade their gear so your future income is a crap shoot. I think you'll discover this stuff is expensive because there is a lot of risk involved especially after all that upfront expense to develop then how many years will it be a popular product before you have to start designing the next great keyboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Dan Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 I suppose "decent keybed" is subjective, and you didn't mention what sounds you need, but there are lots of stage pianos with a decent collection of sound and decent keybed (IMO) for well under $3k. They aren't red. Kong SV-2 is $1,999, Grandstage is $2,199, Roland RD88 is $1,199, RD2000 is $25,99, Kurzweil SP-1 is $599, SP-6 is $1,299, Forte SE is $1699, Yamaha CP-88 is $2,499, Lots of Privies for good prices. Quote Dan Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalpozlead Posted June 17, 2020 Author Share Posted June 17, 2020 ok, so lets talk market... I think future of synthesizers are obscure, I see Roland`s trending to consolidate all past gear into new boards are proof that no music we listen for the past 20 years shows any substantial patch or waveform we haven't been accustomed to... and I understand there is a clear strategy each time a brand shows up with controllers with toy keybed saving to have their top notch mechanisms only for the top gear. I love all of those companies, they helped making music I love,who I am, what I listen and what I dream about (and probably if I had won the lottery I wouldn't be complaining here...) I just see current situation very strange... sorry for whining guys ;-) I have GAS... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Song80s Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 DAW get your controller. rent the software off the cloud Quote Why fit in, when you were born to stand out ? My Soundcloud with many originals: [70's Songwriter] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunaman Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 Any gear since 1997 with real groundbreaking sounds... Well, not specifically for sounds, per se, but the fact that the Kronos contains 9 separate unique engines is pretty amazing, and the feature set is so rich that I can"t imaging mastering or leveraging it all in the next 10 years... this for tech which is already 9 years old. I couldn"t justify the ~$3500 price tag for new, but I found a 'mint" (truly) K2 73 last October for nearly half that, and once acquired I quickly realized the value. I like the weighted action, but I also MIDI my TEX 61 for organ/synth lead use. I ended up buying another 'mint" (truly) K2 88, again for about 1/2 retail, so that I could keep one in our rehearsal venue. I couple that one with my Triton LE 61. My only real gripe is the weight - they are beastly if having to move from place to place very frequently (hence the second one). From the inception of analog, through the FM evolution, ROMplers, etc... not sure there are a lot of areas where new unique soundforms can evolve. I personally believe that it is in form factors, methods of expression, and technical capability combinations where much of the future innovation lies. The technology will evolve, sure, just like the new MIDI standard which expands on the available addressing capability of the hardware, but I"m hard-pressed to think of any type of sound which can"t be generated by one technology or another today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stokely Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 I get the problem when it comes to keybeds. It appears that you want top-notch sounds with great keybeds and that isn't a common combination. As others have said, software gives you a world of options but some people just aren't into it. I have some plugins that I'd put up against any hardware if you heard it in a recording (Repro, Diva being a couple). Not to make this a hardware vs software thing, I love hardware too! Software synths with daws have the additional benefit of super flexibility and convenience, with one drawback being the lack of dedicated controls that you might get on a synth like a Virus (though with some effort and a midi controller this can be done). Speaking of the Virus, I dearly regret getting rid of my Virus kB. That was the best keybed i"ve ever used and I bought (and sold) it used for just over 600 bucks...no controller I've ever played felt as good as that thing. I understand the Studiologic compacts may use the same tp-9 action (?) There are new things happening though I must say I'm not that "experimental" with my sound choices most of the time. Repro-5, being a Prophet 5 emulation, is my most used synth plugin. There are some crazy plugins out there though, and hardware synths like the hydrasynth seem to be breaking new or at least rarely-trodden ground. MPE and alternative controllers are pretty exciting. Modular is a whole world I know little about and I'm scared to learn more because it looks expensive Though of course there are software modular synths too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffincltnc Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 I have made music with a used Novation SL controller with aftertouch that I bought for $150 on Craigslist and plugged it into an iPad. I have also bought $4,000 workstations. I don't think you would be able to tell which is which from the finished product but I buy and use both types of products for different situations. Quote Yamaha U1 Upright, Roland Fantom 8, Nord Stage 4 HA73, Nord Wave 2, Korg Nautilus 73, Viscount Legend Live, Lots of Mainstage/VST Libraries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthaholic Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 I feel your pain. That"s why I say just get a Numa Compact 2x if you have decent routing capabilities. Plays great, plus Aftertouch. Any other board under $1500 is inferior, keybed-wise. Am I wrong, people? Quote The fact there's a Highway To Hell and only a Stairway To Heaven says a lot about anticipated traffic numbers People only say "It's a free country" when they're doing something shitty-Demetri Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uhoh7 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 Imagine a travelling organist back in Bach's day. Jezu! Why can't these churches decide on a keybed? I bet it was the same with water organs in Rome. Keybed whining is by far the favorite topic of keyboard forums. Of course you can find a great keybed way under 3k, though it may not be a new one. If you are that picky, you know the actions, you know all the fatars, the Kawais, etc. You take the time and find one. The Osmose will be well under 3k. Whining is fine. But whining without detail is just whining, and boring to me. Especially in such a subjective area. OP does not mention his experience or his goals. Taxes and bad keyboard actions, they are just a given. Quote RT-3/U-121/Leslie 21H and 760/Saltarelle Nuage/MOXF6/MIDIhub, SL-880/Nektar T4/Numa Cx2/Deepmind12/Virus TI 61/SL61 mk2 Stylophone R8/Behringer RD-8/Proteus 1/MP-7/Zynthian 4 MPC1k/JV1010/Unitor 8/Model D & 2600/WX-5&7/VL70m/DMP-18 Pedals Natal drums/congas etc & misc bowed/plucked/blown instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyFF Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 You didn't mention weight. In the past a great weighted keybed brought you to 40-50 pounds, AND was pricey. The advantage of the upper tier boards is that they usually are more reliable, so you can buy with confidence something that is 10 years old and cut the price in half. But then you're stuck with moving a boat anchor. Just bought a Kawai ES110 and it has the best, most inspiring action I've ever felt on a weighted board, weighs 26 pounds and it goes for $700 in the US. But otherwise it's a bare bones entry level model, doesn't even have an aux in or USB ports. Quote Numa Piano X73 /// Kawai ES920 /// Casio CT-X5000 /// Yamaha EW425 Yamaha Melodica and Alto Recorder QSC K8.2 // JBL Eon One Compact // Soundcore Motion Boom Plus Win10 laptop i7 8GB // iPad Pro 9.7" 32GB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 Why do I have to buy a new $ 3,000 workstation...just to have access to a decent keybed?!...i cant find anything good for a synth action (a killer one like the FS from yamaha)...my DX7..., if wasn't for the limit of the MIDI messages I'd happy). Keep in mind that that DX7 with FS action went for $1995 in 1983. Adjusted for inflation, that's the equivalent of over $5,000 today. By that standard, the $3k-ish boards you're talking about (I'm guessing Kronos, Montage, Fantom) could seem like bargains. And as some have mentioned, there are cheaper boards that still have good actions. A lot of people like the Fatar TP9, versions of which have found its way into plenty of reasonably priced boards, including the Novation SL MKII (maybe the mk III as well, I'm not sure) and Numa Compact 2/2X alluded to above. At a higher price (but still well below $3k), you can find the Vox Continental which I think feels great (no aftertouch, though), and the Yamaha YC61 which I haven't played but has gotten favorable reviews on its action (though also no aftertouch). Quote Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 I like to apply the housing budget rule to gear. I won"t spend more than 25% of my gross annual receipts from music on gear in one year. Especially large ticket items if I think I really need them for the gig. I will amortize over a period longer than a year. I did this the year I got the Kronos 2-88 because I just couldn"t do the Pop gig with my old S90XS based rig. Quote "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalpozlead Posted June 17, 2020 Author Share Posted June 17, 2020 lets say I miss gear like the Summit from Novation (BTW I've asked in that thread if any VST has the same approach sound wise).. strong synthesis (I mean no the same brass and electric guitar emulation apparently no used in records), apparently great synth action, standard controllers, solid construction.. no sequencers. Although summit is super expensive I see more value than the other standard GM sounds from other brands... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 no sequencers Boards aren't custom made for us. You're lucky enough to find a board that does everything you want, I think it's too much to ask that it also not do anything you don't want. Meanwhile, Yamaha basically took the sequencers out of their Montage/MODX and people screamed about it. Quote Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalpozlead Posted June 17, 2020 Author Share Posted June 17, 2020 you are correct... Im dreaming in a GAS-Quarantine nightmare :-) no more whining from my side ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synthdogg Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 I went with a used Korg M3 for controller purposes. It's still my favorite synth action, has USB and MIDI, a good selection of buttons, sliders, pedals, and the X/Y touch screen as controller options too. A 88 key controller may be an option, but i cant find anything good for a synth action (a killer one like the FS from yamaha) All options now is to go for an used synth (heavy and sometimes without USB connection), clean it from the past 15 years of use, and use it as a controller (as I did with my DX7..., if wasn't for the limit of the MIDI messages I'd happy). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Song80s Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 Keep in mind that that DX7 with FS action went for $1995 in 1983. Adjusted for inflation, that's the equivalent of over $5,000 today. By that standard, the $3k-ish boards you're talking about (I'm guessing Kronos, Montage, Fantom) could seem like bargains. And as some have mentioned, th. Going back 37 years ? the problem with your sentimental analysis is that no one realistically wants DX7 from 1983 today. For $500 maybe. Let stick with contemporary production/manufacturing standards and reasonably [ or low] priced components at the factory level of the past 5 years. I know many are 'sold ' on the high prices of Kronos, Montage, Fantom. I made my own assertions in separate topic, to challenge ' conventional ' thinking here. I don't mind disagreement regarding price of these boards. Folks are free to spend their $ per their rationale. Quote Why fit in, when you were born to stand out ? My Soundcloud with many originals: [70's Songwriter] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzpiano88 Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 Keep in mind that that DX7 with FS action went for $1995 in 1983. Adjusted for inflation, that's the equivalent of over $5,000 today. By that standard, the $3k-ish boards you're talking about (I'm guessing Kronos, Montage, Fantom) could seem like bargains. And as some have mentioned, th. Going back 37 years ? the problem with your sentimental analysis is that no one realistically wants DX7 from 1983 today. For $500 maybe. Well yeah, but his point was that a cutting edge board is way cheaper today in inflation adjusted dollars. You get 10x the capability today for 60% less inflation adjusted dollars than in 1983. Moore's law in action. Remember "B3 organ is equivalent to a Buick Skylark" way back when? Quote J a z z P i a n o 8 8 -- Yamaha C7D Montage M8x | CP300 | CP4 | SK1-73 | OB6 | Seven K8.2 | 3300 | CPSv.3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggypants Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 Imagine a travelling organist back in Bach's day. Jezu! Why can't these churches decide on a keybed? I . It totally was, I remember reading in a biography of J.S.Bach he would go to provincial church organs that had a poor reputation, pull out what seemed like a terribly unorthodox set of stops and proceed to belt out some incredible sounding improvised work and rinse the local organist. Reading that is also why I"m not terribly keen on the Bach Moog stuff that people do, I think he"d have been a great inventive patch creator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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