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Got the news last Thursday: My solid, PT music director gig has been eliminated, as of June 30th - along with that of a weekly, contracted guitarist. We were 2/3 of a music staff also comprised of a traditional organist/choir director, who cannot provide the contemporary stuff. The lead minister is planning to 'reimagine' the modern service, using a handful of volunteer vocalists who play minimal hand percussion; there are no instrumentalists there now...

I get the fact that budgets are tight and that summer earnings can slide a little, but I feel the powers-that-be are being quite shortsighted. The guitarist and I are the only ones there who understand sound and basic engineering, plus the recording and streaming over the past three months. There was an acoustic guitarist and a keyboard student of mine who helped out, but they've both quit out of protest due to my dismissal. My soon to be former music team was mostly in disbelief at the announcement. And the council/minister were not at all open to my offers to compromise - taking a cut in pay during this summer of the Covid crisis, etc. The church has been on an aggressive campaign to pay off a building fund, and have been overpaying - to knock it off early. I would think a wise and considerate organization - which my team and I thought we were a part of - would go back to normal payments (completing the loan in 3 years instead of 1), and keep essential support staff. But the way it was handled was cold and clinically efficient: no discussion, no warning, nothing. I've been thinking that despite the excellent, hard work the guitarist and I put in (with lots of validation from the congregation), the lead minister just might've been looking for an opportunity to move us along, and implement his own version of music and leading :idk: .

 

Thankfully I have 17, virtual students at the moment; and the teaching studio should be going live again sometime in July. My wife has a good day gig, plus a few live gigs are now on my calendar for late summer. But the church income was a solid chunk-o-change right now; even taking Social Security in November wouldn't quite match that. Plus I'd hate to do that, at 62. It does get tougher to reinvent oneself at this age, though. I feel plenty capable now, but ageism is a reality - especially with churches. And that's frankly hypocritical.

'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo.

 

We need a barfing cat emoticon!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Just ranting here, but in Hungary, Catholic churches don't pay the contemporary musicians at all, only the organist. Everyone else is a volunteer, which mostly means amateurs. There is close to no connection or relationship between pro contemporary musicians and Catholic church musicians. I'm working on trying to change the latter!

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I empathize. In 1980, I benefitted from ageism in the contemporary worship arena; by 2010 I was its victim. It sounds like OP's church is shooting itself in the foot though; unskilled volunteers on tambourines tend to drive people away.

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Just ranting here, but in Hungary, Catholic churches don't pay the contemporary musicians at all, only the organist. Everyone else is a volunteer, which mostly means amateurs. There is close to no connection or relationship between pro contemporary musicians and Catholic church musicians. I'm working on trying to change the latter!

 

Thanks for reading my somewhat lengthy rant; yours was concise by comparison. I'm likely to rant a little more, though. This surprise has been a regal pain in the arse :pop:

 

I have noticed more demand for pro contemporary musicians in the Catholic church over here. So I'm certainly open to serving musically in that denomination.

The church I've been a member of, and directed music to vary degrees since 2012, is the United Methodist Church. One problem I've noticed with some mainstream, protestant churches is that they so badly want the music/production of the Mega church model: worship as a performer-centered concert, extreme production, fireworks, lasers - something akin to a U2 or Queen event. And that puts a lot of unrealistic pressure on local churches and musicians. And then churches advertise for 'Bono', as a music director/leader :crazy:

I know that my soon-to-be-former church had board members checking out local mega church concerts services. Quite possible they're now looking for their very own 'Freddie' to put butts in the seats and overflow the collection plates. That's too bad, as the small but growing following our music team had was based on the model of keyboardist/producer with a vocal team doing most of the lead singing. Guess it wasn't enough for the chosen few board members...

'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo.

 

We need a barfing cat emoticon!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Ten or so years ago, my mother left the church she had been a part of since she was a child due to similar board decision-making. Sorry to hear they've treated you so shabbily. It sounds like they're in for a rude awakening when they try to get their "reinvented" music off the ground.
unskilled volunteers on tambourines tend to drive people away.
Truer words have rarely been spoken.

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Ten or so years ago, my mother left the church she had been a part of since she was a child due to similar board decision-making. Sorry to hear they've treated you so shabbily. It sounds like they're in for a rude awakening when they try to get their "reinvented" music off the ground.
unskilled volunteers on tambourines tend to drive people away.
Truer words have rarely been spoken.

 

Thanks, guys! And I love the 'unskilled volunteers' quote.

'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo.

 

We need a barfing cat emoticon!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Over here musicians in Churches do it for the love of God.

 

The only paid musicians are those related to the major Cathedrals which have choirs and affiliated schools.

 

May God help you to find alternative employment.

Col

 

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Allan,

 

So sad to hear how this went down for you. Having been a part of two church plants in my life, I've unfortunately seen my fair share of organizations treating good people very poorly. I've seen many US churches end up seeing "worship" (what they mean is the musical portion of their service) as the "entertainment draw" to attract audiences / revenue rather than providing a setting for congregants eager to worship. I'm sorry it sounds like the consequences of this bug in your soon-to-be former church ended up biting you painfully.

 

For those from other countries where this circumstance seems strange (using paid professional musicians and such), I'm told it's not exclusively an American thing, but it has become quite popular in some strains of Protestant churches to a large degree. The "church gig" for non-believing professional musicians has become a staple of full-time musicians' income in many metropolitan areas, and is a real boon for believing musicians to derive some income from a labor of love they would have done for the love of God either way. There is of course a long historical tradition of churches employing musicians, being a dominant artistic patron in European history and the like, but that may be neither here nor there in 2020.

 

At the end of the day, what matters more is how men and women demonstrate love and care for one another. Brother Allan describes an event and a way of dealing with people that didn't need to be handled that way, but that I've unfortunately heard before. Sad, and of course I hope you find even better and more satisfying opportunities very quickly.

 

Tim

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I hesitate to imagine what that "reimagined" music is going to be like...if they're getting rid of the musicians, and replacing you guys with hand percussion and amateur singers, that wouldn't even work for an acapella group. Being more or less an "amateur singer" as well as having worked with many in the church, they really need to have some pitch reference. Yikes.

 

I'm also part of the United Methodist Church, confirmed in the UMC in fact :wave:, though I'm currently volunteering at a Converge church (general conference Baptist) because the Methodist church here has their entire small building packed each week with no space for newcomers (this was PRE-COVID obviously). Our church just went through an interim pastoral period, and now we're back looking to hire a music director. During the interim time, we have had rotating worship teams of different volunteers from our church. We had roughly five people who could lead, and then we used Planning Center to schedule people who could come and sing or play. I used to be just the pianist/keyboardist/organist at my previous church, but in Fall of 2018 my current church asked me if I'd be willing to step in and lead occasionally. I do the standard piano or keyboard and lead vocals - we usually have three to four singers, a drummer, often bass and acoustic guitar, and myself on either keyboards or the piano. Other weeks I sing harmony and do keys behind whoever is leading. All pre-COVID of course.

 

In my experience at several churches here in the U.S. in different denominations (UMC, E.Free, Gen. Conf. Baptist, and Catholic [organist]), only the music director and choir director are usually paid. That's really the only way that a small church can hire people and pay the pastor a living wage for his family. As an example, my previous church (UMC) had one full time pastor, a music director/director of spiritual growth, a youth/children's director, and a secretary. Everything else was volunteer-run or special cases. People did multiple jobs. We weren't a large church but we weren't tiny either (average attendance of 97 or so when I attended). It's just how the majority of churches are. On the other hand, the churches with the big bucks like to hire session musicians and the like because they're chasing the concert experience. If you have the money, fine, those guys can use a side gig anyways usually. But it doesn't seem to be the norm.

 

I have to say, if they need to lock down further, they're going to really want you guys back to do the online stuff. I agree it's shortsighted. Our town doesn't have great internet, so my church decided to do only the sermons online, and have people listen to worship music on YouTube. :crazy: Even though I offered to pre-film or even livestream worship from my music room at home (keys and vocals, or possibly backing tracks too). :idk: Very strange times.

 

Either way the way they let you know was kind of cold.

 

 

Best of luck Allan! Kind of a bad deal. I'll be praying that you can find employment elsewhere.

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Very sad to hear of this. All too frequent. A church should be more forthcoming and honest dealing than the world. I spent about 25 years servicing electronic musical products, including church organs. Over the years, I found that the itty-bitty church in a low income area was MUCH easier to do the work and be paid than the FIRST-BLAHBLAHBLAHChurchOfThe FrozenWealthy, with all the lawyers and doctors and other high income folk. They were the only ones ever to threaten to sue me for perceived inferior work when I turned them over to the Credit Bureau for prolonged non-payment.

Some areas I won't go into here, out of respect for forum rules.

I'm a happy volunteer in a small church (usually 50-85 showing up before the recent time). Most of the time, we never really know where the money will come from when something breaks down or needs work; but it always shows up in time. Pastor, Youth pastor, Music Director, Secretary only ones receiving money (and not large amounts at that); we do largely modern praise/worship music with some hymns. Had a choir at one time, but reductions in size, don't have now. Many of the folk about my age long for the days of organ, piano, choir, and nothing that wasn't in the hymn book; but they are still there (I've been there since late 2004).

I love it, my talent level is low enough that if I did get what I am worth, it might be enough to buy a soft drink each week. I don't want money for it. The sheer enjoyment of being able to play with others of similar mind, NOT trying to be a "show" but trying to do what praise and worship music SHOULD do is more than enough. I missed the weeks that I was at home watching the streaming, and was very glad to return. We are still not formally open (in NC where hundreds can be in Lowes, but a 10,000 seat church isn't supposed to have more than 10); the musicians stay far enough apart, I don't sing, so I can still wear a mask (my wife made me three masks by hand, so I better wear one).

 

I feel for you, and really hope that you find better, so much better that, if this particular church calls and wants you (and the guitarist) back when they find out that their approach didn't help pay off the building more quickly; both of you are in a position so much better that there is not even a thought of return.

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We don"t even allow organs... just the human voice. But it"s pretty cool. Membership has been expanding here lately. I think a lot of Western folks are getting interested in the roots of Christianity. It seems to go in phases around here.

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Unfortunately my church just has an organist, and for one mass, a few guitars, a clarinet, and they also have a Yamaha DGX something for keys but sadly they don"t mess with the accompaniment or non-piano voices.
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Alan that sucks. I wonder what they are thinking. They didn't discuss bringing you back after the pandemic? I am so grateful that the pastor at my church gig (also Methodist) values music and understands it. His wife sang with the LA Master Chorale and now works for the Symphony. These folks really appreciate our talents, and I'm happy to say that during COVID we have still been working, producing the service remotely as each musician records at home and send it to me to mix. It's literally the only 'gig' I have right now.

 

I hope you find something else. The church is in a really tough spot these days. This crisis might break the back of many small congregations that were already only sporting blue hair crowds.

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My church decided that none of the musicians would lose their 'job' when the church had to go completely on-line, even though that meant lower contributions. While we are still recording at home individually each week for a merged playback during the service each week, it doesn"t feel right to keep the money at this time, so I donate it back.
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WARNING: I am not religious, so take this with a grain of salt, okay?

 

Back when I was selling stereo gear, we had two customers, one Baptist, one Methodist, both ministers in their respective faiths. The were both from down in the flat lands, living/working not far from one another. They were, in fact, good friends. The Methodist minister was complaining that there was no money to be had in his faith. This was in discussion with his buddy, the Baptist minister, in our listening room. They knew I was a non-believer, so they spoke freely around me; I was just part of the furniture. Anyway, the upshot was that, after a long discussion, the Methodist minister decided that he was going to switch from Methodist to Baptist faiths because that's where the money was.

 

The other side of the mirror: My grandmother changed churches for the same reason, but flipped. A lifelong Baptist, she switched to...I think it was an Episcopalian(?...it's been a while and she died nearly twenty years ago, so I can't ask her) church because they weren't demanding so much money all the time.

 

Moral of the story? If you want money, go Baptist. (At least around this part of the country, you can drive around and look at the relative sizes of the churches themselves and decide for yourself who has the best-funded building fund, which is an indirect indicator of the truth of why I say.)

 

The choice is yours: True belief or money? Which will you choose?

 

I'll bow out now because this is probably infringing on the no-religion rule and may upset some people. Hope your situation comes to a happy conclusion, whatever that may be.

 

Grey

I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play.

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Just the words "unskilled volunteers on tambourines" drives me away.

 

Might be a good name for an aggressive punk band.

These are only my opinions, not supported by any actual knowledge, experience, or expertise.
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Sorry Alan. You know how these things go. I lost my church gig last March, they fired most of the band, kept the drummer and the 'leader' (she was....not very good at playing with others and worse at leading a band). 2 weeks later they tried to hire me back after they had fired the 'leader', but personal life made that a non-starter. Everybody thinks they can do everything. Until it doesn't work.
Hitting "Play" does NOT constitute live performance. -Me.
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Just the words "unskilled volunteers on tambourines" drives me away.

Don't blame Alan's church for that -- that was my phrase, snarkily extrapolated from his mention of "hand percussion." (well, okay, also from previous experience as a worship leader, including a period when one of my churches was seriously considering a ladies' tambourine corps.)

 

Let's see, just to lighten things up for a moment, what other hand percussion could be used for worship.

 

At one church we successfully used a Djembe as a trap set substitute, until we hired a pastor who could play drums.

 

Other hand percussion instruments for your consideration: Congas (Good), Bongoes (a little trickier), Afuche (mercifully quiet), claves (could be as harmful as a tambourine in the wrong hands), castanets (Now that would be funny).

 

Disclaimer: I volunteer on keys, lead and backup vocals, drums, mix FOH and Streaming audio (two separate jobs), and sometimes do the lyrics projections in a rural Semi-mega church that has several paid musical and media staff. Oh, and I actually prefer pipe organs and hymnals.

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When looking for sheet music online, I was baffled to find complete arrangements of worship songs for groups of people playing handbells. Apparently that"s a thing, never ever heard of this before.

Life is subtractive.
Genres: Jazz, funk, pop, Christian worship, BebHop
Wishlist: 80s-ish (synth)pop, symph pop, prog rock, fusion, musical theatre
Gear: NS2 + JUNO-G. KingKORG. SP6 at church.

 

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I'm the full time Music Director at my church (have been for twenty years) & it has sustained me between gigs but in the last five years the pastor has been assigning me more duties because "music isn't really work" & feels adding more to my juggling plates justifies my position, especially recently. So I not only prepare music & play piano and organ at five masses, all weddings, funerals, quinceaneras,... I'm also the Director of Liturgy, Director of Grounds Maintenance,departmental head for the Office of Health and Safety Management and I'm sure there's more to come.

I wonder sometimes if pulling me in several directions is a game to get me to quit...

You don't know you're in the dark until you're in the light.
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At my church, the only paid position is the Minister of Music. Everyone else is a volunteer.

 

I understand about the possible sudden change.

 

We had a minister of music that was a very talented guy. He was the choir director, would write plays that were staged and performed at the church. His weak point was in directing the praise band. He was very dedicated. The church hired his sister as his secretary, and his brother-in-law and the sound director.

 

It was decided that he needed another paid assistant, one that would take some of the burden off him. They hired a person that was a pastor, had a degree from Ohio State, day job as a music teacher at a private school, frequent actor at the local community theater. Very qualified.

 

Not long after he was hired, the previous minister was fired, with little or no warning. There were some rumors as to the reason, but I'll leave them out of this discussion. His sister, his brother-in-law, and several members of the congregation left in protest.

 

The assistant was elevated to the position of Minister of Music.

 

It was not a pretty situation, but it worked out. The previous minister opened his own Faith Based store, and he has moved on to be the choir director at another area church.

 

The new minister has proven himself to be very capable. He put together a group of people that have been there for the Livestream of services during the lockdown.

 

It will be good to see him this Saturday, as my church is slowly opening up.

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So God helped him and created woman.

 

Now everybody's got the blues."

 

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My only years duration church 'gig' was like decades ago up 'till I was becoming a twen, it wasn't paid money in normal sense, so that, as well as having not gigged that often as a paid musician is not something I can easily relate to. I do know people in church normally like music, and probably are a bit weary about formal music programs. I also think that apart from really populist churches the newness of the poppy music angle is going to wear out soon unless there's quality.

 

I like the church organ fine myself, and I'm fine with a "band on stage" but it's hard to get a church sound that people dig and are feeling educated by. I'd say that hasn't really changed in a world where all kinds of new stuff is being tried. The nerdy instrument management many keyboardists have subscribed to I don't think is going to be very fruitful.

 

It's sad when music made by good musicians isn't appreciated or heard, for instance by youth, so I feel for the few musicians that get something going in a church like setting which makes people properly interested, for which somehow the times are hard.

 

Theo V

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So glad the church didn't have the problem so many of you have/had with doing church music. I think the big asset for us was the choir director had been a Jazz singer on her own and with a couple big artists. She was also married to the Rev' of the church. So our band was all pro Jazz and R&B musicians that we rotated between a handful of them so chairs were covered for ones that still toured. Being pro with big ears basically sound check was rehearsal for the guest artist for the service. If more rehearsal was needed the musicians would go into the backroom with the artist and keep talking down the song until the music part os service started. If the church had a big event then the band would do a rehearsal. So basically time commitment for the band was basically an hour before 1st service 5:30am on Sunday till 3rd service ended with long break between playing first part of service and end of service and similar time for Wednesday service. The band box was set up so the band would leave after the first part of service and quietly slide back in for the end part of service. So it we made it as easy a gig for the musicians as possible. The other thing that helped was being a Black church so music was an important part of service and Rev's wife was Jazz musician and choir director there was a lot of band (and media team) got paid.

 

I was a member of another Blank church before joining the one I worked for as well as a member. There the Bishop of the church had started as the organist and MD of the band. His years of playing in the church is what led him to switching to becoming the minister. He understood the value of music in worship and how much the band and choir performed in service was driven by how the congregation was being moved by the music. I remember a few weeks were the music became the biggest part of service, and heard that in the past a couple time the congregation was so moved by the music the entire service was music. But again this church like the other had pro level players that were good enough to really get the congregation moving.

 

And like it or not churches are a business and it became very obvious that having a good music department not only brought more people to church when the music was really moving people tithing increased too. So having a good music department in a church is good business.

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My neighbor is music director for a very large church in the area. I don't know how they are making it. Services are virtual with no passing the plate. I'm sure only the very dedicated are sending in donations. For the churches that are starting to have in person services, singing has been cut because it is labeled as something that can spread the virus. I don't know how many of them are making it financially. So far my neighbor still has his job, but I wonder how long the church can go under this financial situation.

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And like it or not churches are a business and it became very obvious that having a good music department not only brought more people to church when the music was really moving people tithing increased too. So having a good music department in a church is good business.

 

 

 

The musical writhing turned to tithing.

 

And man saw everything he had made and behold it was very good. Hee hee.

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Thanks, everyone for your support and insights! I did line something up, yesterday morning; seems a good start. A local church needed help with playing piano/keys in their band, starting with a weekly Sunday mass; it's comparable to basic club gig pay, per mass, which will help a lot. I've been assured that the Saturday afternoon mass will also be mine, once the temporary keyboardist finishes their current 6-week assignment. The church hopes to return to its pre-Covid 19 schedule which included an additional mass on Sunday morning, plus an occasional weekday evening mass. At that point I'll be at or exceeding my lost previous church income. The music director and I had a great connection, so I think this will work out well.

'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo.

 

We need a barfing cat emoticon!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Glad to hear you found something, congratulations!

 

I'll chime in with some others - around here, in the Lutheran church, historically an organist would be paid. As they added contemporary services, the organist continued to get paid, but the contemporary musicians almost all volunteer. Quality varies widely on the church depending on the quality of musicians and the size of the pool available to choose from within the congregation. Some of the larger ones that are more focussed on contemporary and maybe don't have an organ or organist, will pay a Musical Director, who picks the songs, supplies the charts, holds rehearsals, etc., however the other musicians aren't paid. I've filled in with some of these churches with a paid MD who reached out to me, but have never been paid.

Dan

 

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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. I've filled in with some of these churches ....... but have never been paid.

 

Dan,

 

It might be the horns (your avatar pic)! :blush:

 

:cool:

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. I've filled in with some of these churches ....... but have never been paid.

 

Dan,

 

It might be the horns (your avatar pic)! :blush:

 

:cool:

 

Not sharp enough?

Dan

 

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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