Anybody doing the Chick Corea Academy?

[cjfox]

I'm tempted to sign up, as I love Chick Corea's playing , but I'm hesitant that it might be over my head. Anyone doing it? Thoughts?

[Docbop]

Just sign up for a month and check it out first hand, you're best judge if it's a good fit for you.

[Coker]

I went through Chick"s academy and also Herbie Hancock"s master class series. Although I got something out of both of them, I found Herbie"s sessions to be more organized and specific to actually playing than Chick"s.

[jeffincltnc]

I put it on my wishlist for fathers day and a birthday this month. Very similar to Coker, I did the Herbie Hancock Master Class and I liked it. I would be more likely to audition the program on a month-to-month basis instead of signing up for a a full year.

[16251]

Love Chick. That being said I was watching his FB piano practice session and he was answering a few questions. One was how to approach solo piano playing. His answer was to just keep doing it and record yourself for self examination and you will improve. Good advise of course but IMO anyone can answer that way. I would prefer insights from over 50 years of playing that including a few concrete steps to improve.

 

What I would like from masters like Chick and Herbie is more insight on their formative years when they were putting it all together.

[Coker]

16251, I agree with your assessment of Chick"s session. His answers were a little too content-free for me, while Herbie was really specific. I love Chick, too. His discussions are more philosophical than I wanted, though. This may just mean that his sessions will appeal more to musicians who are more advanced than I am.

[Jazz+]

He serves as an inspiration, not a source of information. Personally, I have not paid attention to him since the 1980's.

[cjfox]

Thanks all. I've seen the facebook stuff, and saw some stuff from further in the past. I already record myself to critique my solos, and I'm not going to be sitting down to go through some classical stuff, much as I love hearing him play.

[jerrythek]

I get the same sense as some others... I think Chick teaches best through the example of his playing. I"ve not heard a lot from his talking/lectures (if you will) that is as helpful. No slight to him, he"s a living legend for sure. But not everyone is an educator.

[jerrythek]

He serves as an inspiration, not a source of information. Personally, I have not paid attention to him since the 1980's.

 

Wow, 30-40 years of his output that you"ve chosen to miss out on. I would suggest you consider checking out these titles (all favorites of mine):

 

Trilogy

 

The New Crystal Silence

 

Further Explorations

 

Just as a start. I think his acoustic piano playing hit new levels in the decades since the 80"s...

 

Jerry

[Docbop]

I get the same sense as some others... I think Chick teaches best through the example of his playing. I"ve not heard a lot from his talking/lectures (if you will) that is as helpful. No slight to him, he"s a living legend for sure. But not everyone is an educator.

 

 

Chick teaches like in the way the old Jazz cats taught and even today the high level musicians do... you ask question they play you an answer. Your expected to have the ears to hear what's going on and if you can't hear it then that is your lesson to work on your ears. Also I've been lucky enough to hang with cats like this and the older ones will say that there are too many different schools with different ways to label things, so by playing the answer you can view it from whatever school of thought you prefer.

 

Bottom line it's all about the ears.

[jazzpiano88]

I get the same sense as some others... I think Chick teaches best through the example of his playing. I"ve not heard a lot from his talking/lectures (if you will) that is as helpful. No slight to him, he"s a living legend for sure. But not everyone is an educator.

Chick teaches like in the way the old Jazz cats taught and even today the high level musicians do... you ask question they play you an answer. Your expected to have the ears to hear what's going on and if you can't hear it then that is your lesson to work on your ears. Also I've been lucky enough to hang with cats like this and the older ones will say that there are too many different schools with different ways to label things, so by playing the answer you can view it from whatever school of thought you prefer.

 

Bottom line it's all about the ears.

 

I think one could do much better watching Barry Harris' on YouTube.

Barry is a playing monster and has a full understanding of the theory.

 

I'm for the most part a believer that theory is a tool to explain the music rather than a device to create music.

 

However in Barry's case, his theory explanations are so good that I think this knowledge is very useful for expanding one's harmonic pallet as opposed to listening alone.

A good example:[video:youtube]

[Docbop]

I'm for the most part a believer that theory is a tool to explain the music rather than a device to create music.

 

No one uses theory to create music at least good music. You practice using theory or study theory to get the labels people put on sounds, but when actually improvising or composing (same thing just a speed difference) you're doing it in real time there's no time to be thinking about theory.

[jerrythek]

Hi Doc:

 

I think that method is totally valid, but that"s not what I was speaking to. I"ve seen plenty of clips of Chick teaching and he often just speaks...and I find he wanders a bit in his answers and doesn"t always get to the heart of the matter. Or answers in broad generalities. I"m fine with being shown... in fact I love instructional videos that show the hands.

 

So I was referring to his spoken answers. Again, not knocking him, he"s one of my favorite inspirations.

 

Jerry

 

I get the same sense as some others... I think Chick teaches best through the example of his playing. I"ve not heard a lot from his talking/lectures (if you will) that is as helpful. No slight to him, he"s a living legend for sure. But not everyone is an educator.

 

 

Chick teaches like in the way the old Jazz cats taught and even today the high level musicians do... you ask question they play you an answer. Your expected to have the ears to hear what's going on and if you can't hear it then that is your lesson to work on your ears. Also I've been lucky enough to hang with cats like this and the older ones will say that there are too many different schools with different ways to label things, so by playing the answer you can view it from whatever school of thought you prefer.

 

Bottom line it's all about the ears.

[Jazz+]

How much is the CC Academy charging? Isn't it more like counseling than studying?

 

Barry Harris is my favorite jazz teacher ever. He has never written a book and his teaching can digress, but he is a true source of bebop jazz. I have been studying with Barry Harris since 1989 and have a huge box filled with notes I have taken from him. Mark Levine would be my second favorite, he's very information focused.

I have attended Corea's workshops over the years and they were more of a fan appreciation session, he's there for inspiration, not information. I don't consider him a teacher of information.

I liked Chick's work in the 60's and early 70's. But, after that period I associate him with fusion, Bartok, Scientology, and an absence of blues and swing. Corea did publish a video workshop booklet 35 years ago that showed how to apply modes the way modern jazz does, it was good. It also talked about those fast two-handed licks he does. Dave Frank does a Chick Corea workshop for free. I prefer the piano playing of Chick's contemporary Herbie Hancock. Hancock is also present for giving inspiration, not information.

[Dave Ferris]

I'm of the school that you best get something out of a 'teacher' when you are one on one. And preferably in a live context as opposed to skype, zoom or whatever other computer based method people are using today. Probably because that's how I was mentored and learned myself.

 

A big role of a teacher is first listening to you play and then assess your shortcomings and give you solid, practical advice on how to improve in those areas.

 

Jazz can be taught but the core of the music is based on playing with others. I don't care how many hours you spend in the practice room - if you can't groove on, comp and play a solo on a 12 bar Blues or Rhythm changes, something's going very wrong in your approach.

 

Pinning your aspirations on Legends, or even your favorite player doesn't guarantee they will be able to impart useful knowledge to really help you. It might come from a person you might least expect.

 

One time I was playing Duo with the great Bassist Tony Dumas many years ago. Tony has played with Freddie Hubbard, Cedar Walton just to name but a few. I could tell he was getting agitated when I comped for his solos ( again no drums..if there are any warts in your playing, it will show up in this context ). I asked what the problem was. He said...you know you need to state the time more definitively while I'm soloing. It feels like you are waiting for me to do something and then reacting to what I play. It's good that you're listening but the time is getting wonky because you're not rock solid with it. It's too floating, ambiguous and it inhibits my forward motion flow.

 

Well I thought about that for many many months ! I started recording myself on gigs and listening to myself. To this day whenever I see him, which isn't very often, I remind him of that. He doesn't even remember it now ...lol

 

I shutter to think how my playing would've evolved without a "Chick" influence. I listen to the present Trio stuff with Brian, Christian and others. I like it but I do miss the straight ahead Blues connection J+ mentioned. More often then not, I'd like to hear some nice melodic lines like Kenny Barron, David Hazeltine, Cedar Walton or others would play on a tune like Recorda Me for example. The piano devices, even Chick's, after awhile sound just like that - devices- as opposed to melodic development.

 

I don't know, it's funny how you're tastes change the older you get. I find myself listening to the older guys- Sonny Clark, Wynton Kelly, Red Garland, early McCoy and just appreciate their simplicity yet profound statement they make both with their melodic comping/accompaniment and soloing.

[jerrythek]

Great points, Dave.

 

Yes, I have some friends that aren't as much fans of Chick for those specific reasons, not enough blues and swing. The blues aspect I get - that was never a core part of his vocabulary. He could certainly play blues, but it came from his more modern language.

 

As for the swing... I have a harder time criticizing that. Chick's time is impeccable, astounding actually. But he doesn't tend to pull behind the beat, and that for many people is an aspect of swing that they look for , or appreciate.

 

I loved your story about comping, I too tend to wait to hear what the bass player is playing to create support them. Maybe that's something to work on...

 

Thanks!

 

Jerry

[jerrythek]

Hi Dave:

 

Oops... if I gave you any sense that I was talking about Chick's comping that wasn't my intention. I was talking about your comping story with the bass player!

 

I agree with everything you said about Chick's comping: his support for soloists and interaction with drummers is nearly telepathic. That is an aspect of his that I continually study. But it gets hard sometimes, as he gets so involved in a dialog with the player, and many people that I play with are not fans of such interactive dialog all the time. They want space to take their own journey... But I find Chick's ability to create in the moment within an ensemble to be revelatory.

 

Here's a

(playing starts around 20 min in) I watched when it streamed online - rare to hear Chick within a big band, and even with little rehearsal (I'm sure) and unique arrangements from the orchestra, he floats and weaves in and out of the charts like the master that he is.

 

Jerry

[jazzpiano88]

I love how Chick swings on this tune, shifting from on top to behind. Such an apt dedication!

 

[video:youtube]

[GovernorSilver]

Anybody get his book?

 

https://shop.chickcorea.com/products/a-work-in-progress

[16251]

I like to visit early works of the masters. I think he killed this on many levels.

 

[video:youtube]

 

[video:youtube]

[Bobadohshe]

Hearing Chick on Rudy Van Gelder recordings will never not be a mind f*ck for me. It's like that sound combined with being surrounded by the slightly greasier hard bop vibe fools me into thinking it's not him.

[Al Quinn]

Yeah, that tune off the Blue Mitchell record is wonderful. As Dave mentioned it has hints of what's to come. A few years later his release of the Now He Sings Now He Sobs album really established him as a new and unique voice (and he was still in his 20's!).

 

I'm not enrolled in his academy but I took one of his online courses a few years ago. It wasn't what I expected. Almost nothing about theory. I don't think he has much use for it. He even said that when used improperly theory can create a box that limits creativity. A lot about art, individuality, and the process of discovery. He's not really an advocate of formal jazz education. Someone asked him which notes to play over a particular chord. He said (I'm paraphrasing) that no one can tell you which notes to play over a particular chord. He then demonstrated how to explore and find the notes for yourself, using your own preference as the guide.

 

I have the "A Work In Progress" book. It's short and concise with useful information.