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Prince's flanger settings; How you do dat?


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I was digging into some old Prince videos tonight, and during the intro to Sign O The Times, he did something I had heard from him before. He had a number of Boss pedals in front of him, including that old purple flanger, and he hit it for just a moment of two, and it was like the guitar went into orbit! Very cool moment, I thought.

Like I said, I had heard him do that before, but tonight, I wondered how he had the knobs set on that thing to get that wild sound. Anybody know?

Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else.

 

 

 

 

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You can hear effect kick in over the long sustained note between around 25 & 30 seconds, and a few other places during the song. You can't see the pedals, but I recall he was using that plastic Boss pedalboard with all the pedals back in that time frame. You can see him kick at them during one of the songs in the Purple Rain movie.

 

There's a live video opf him doing that song live, and he takes a long solo break at the beginning, and I'd love to find it. Prince was a one heckuva player.

Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else.

 

 

 

 

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The LFO is moving pretty fast, I'm hearing a distinctive swirling sound there. He was probably running a Dirt box into the Flanger to get that extra bit of "gear-grinding" sound. If you have BF-2, I'd start out with the knobs at Noon, and tweak it from there. BTW, brother, I hope you saw my apology in the "Do Not Try This At Home" thread.

 

Prince, Robert Smith of The Cure, and Billy Duffy of The Cult, are (or were) dedicated Boss pedal users. Smith's approach was to set all his knobs to Noon, except on his DD-2 Digital Delay, IIRC. Duffy likes them because he can always find a replacement if something breaks down on tour.

 

Edited thought: You can also "tune" a Flanger with the Manual/Delay Time knob. If you've got a BF-2, set all the knobs to Noon to begin with, then strum or pluck on one string, while turning the Manual knob back and forth. Shorter Delay Times generate higher-pitched Flanger effects, longer Delay Times give you slightly lower pitches, and more "throaty" Flanger effects. That one knob is key to a wide range of tones from the little purple Boss box.

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"Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King

 

http://www.novparolo.com

 

https://thewinstonpsmithproject.bandcamp.com

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Thanks for your input, Winston, I appreciate it. I don't currently have a flanger pedal, but I'm I think I'm gonna get one after being reminded of that sound on Prince's rig. I may get the Boss pedal, or one similar if I can figure out which ones are.

 

I did see your apology, bruh, and I thank you for it. We all have our bad memories, and it's no fun being reminded of them. I'm sorry I brought some of yours up for you. Here's hoping we both can make better memories.

 

Be blessed!

Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else.

 

 

 

 

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On buying a flanger, I do recommend the Boss for exactly the reason Winston states Billy Duffy uses them, and that Billy & Robert are among my favorite flangeophiles. If it works for all the cool things they did with one, who am I to badmouth the pedal?

 

 

That said, that"s not the flanger I own.* I bought the Subdecay Starlight Flanger MKII. Here"s some demo vids:

 

 

 

[video:youtube]

[video:youtube]

[video:youtube]

 

 

 

 

* It"s not the only one I own, but it was the first, and in certain ways, the most flexible traditional flanger I own. Two others worth a look:

 

 

 

[video:youtube]

[video:youtube]

 

 

 

Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: âNinety percent of everything is crapâ

 

My FLMS- Murphy's Music in Irving, Tx

 

http://murphysmusictx.com/

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@Dannyalcatraz - I've been looking for a Starlight Flanger for a while now, one of the few things out there that still tempts me. I'm currently using a Keeley Bubbletron, which is just too much fun! 12 different flavors of Phaser/Flanger/Filter, all in one compact pedal. Also, I only saw the Mr. Black Tunnelworm video when I clicked on the 2nd link? Were there supposed to be two videos?

 

@picker - There were several versions of the Boss Flanger: the original analog MIJ BF-2, purple w/black knobs, a lighter-colored MIT version with grayish caps on the knobs, the short-lived Hi-Band Flanger (it had shorter Delay Time, thus a higher pitch to the overall Flanger sound) and the current model, the BF-3, which is digital, and has been around for easily 20 years +/-. The RI MXR Flanger is also a good choice, and IIRC, those are still analog, as well. The EVH model has a button, marked "EVH", that defaults to Eddie's "Eruption" setting, no matter how the knobs are set, that's the big feature on it; it's also $20 more than the standard grey model.

 

The BF-3 has a couple of cool features, including a Momentary setting, which allows you to briefly engage the Flanger by stepping on the pedal, cutting off the effect as soon as you let your foot up off the gas. Here's a decent video of it -

 

[video:youtube]

 

My favorite Flanger settings tend to start with very low Rate/Speed settings, so I can really hear the 'grinding gear' sound. Next, I'll 'tune' the effect by setting the Manual/Delay Time, the Depth, and the Resonance/Feedback. There's a distinct, throaty sound, very close to The Cure's "Primary", that I'm going for.

"Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King

 

http://www.novparolo.com

 

https://thewinstonpsmithproject.bandcamp.com

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THe Subdecay pedal sounds like it'll make the soound I want. But, so does THIS, and maybe

too. THIS ONE is four knob, which makes it more likely to be similar to the Boss BF-3. What do you guys think of them?

I think the momentary feature you mentioned in the BF-3, Winston, might be what Prince was using. He only kicked the sound in for a short accent, and it went right back off after a few seconds. I like the idea of not having to kick it twice. Being a clumsy old fart, I have to be careful not to trip over my own feet. So, that might be the deciding factor...

EDIT: Did a bit of research on Prince's signal chain, and I think the BF-3 version hadn't been invented yet at the time that video was made. So, it looks like the I'll have to tap dance to get that effect.

Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else.

 

 

 

 

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WPS: editing error on my part- somehow put a space and a capital P at the beginning of the link. :blush:

 

The Keeley Bubbletron is indeed another quality pedal!

Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: âNinety percent of everything is crapâ

 

My FLMS- Murphy's Music in Irving, Tx

 

http://murphysmusictx.com/

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Ah, got it, the Zero Point. Interesting idea, but I prefer being having more control, or controls, as it were.

 

@picker, that first link took me to some site where I had no idea what it was, so I bailed on it. As far as the other two, I've avoided all the Donner/Mooer/Joyo pedals, and the rest of the super-cheap MIC pedals I see all over ScAmazon. OTOH, some of my friends in the EM community have been using them, but they're not getting the kind of abuse they would get as Guitar effects.

 

In '87, Prince would have been using the BF-2 Flanger, BUT (it's a big 'but') he was also using the legendary Boss VB-2 Vibrato, which also had an Unlatch (Momentary) setting. I could see where sending some VB-2 through a BF-2 would produce some insane tones. Boss had reissued the VB-2 as one of their Waza Craft series, one of very few Boss pedals that I've been tempted by in the last few years. It ain't cheap, you could probably find a used MXR Flanger and a used Boss Flanger for the price of one new VB-2W.

 

I also knew a Guitarist at the time (mid-80's) who was using his BF-2 as a momentary effect, but he had to do the double-tap to turn it On, then Off again. He also had the LFO Rate set very high, so it sounded more like a Vibrato effect than a Flanger.

"Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King

 

http://www.novparolo.com

 

https://thewinstonpsmithproject.bandcamp.com

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In the 70s & 80s my flanger of choice (and remember, there was whole lot less choice back then,) was the EH Electric Mistress. It could get pretty weird, especially since they gave you the option to turn the LFO off & just use it as a super short delay, which, with the feedback turned up gave oodles of metallic clank. I used it so much I really OD'ed on it. Haven't used any flanging since then.
Scott Fraser
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In the 70s & 80s my flanger of choice (and remember, there was whole lot less choice back then,) was the EH Electric Mistress. It could get pretty weird, especially since they gave you the option to turn the LFO off & just use it as a super short delay, which, with the feedback turned up gave oodles of metallic clank. I used it so much I really OD'ed on it. Haven't used any flanging since then.

 

The RI versions of the Electric Mistress have that option, except for the compact Neo Mistress. FWIW, Robert Fripp was apparently a big fan of that sound, way back. You really owe it to yourself to try out the Keeley Bubbletron. Two words; Dynamic Flanging . . .

"Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King

 

http://www.novparolo.com

 

https://thewinstonpsmithproject.bandcamp.com

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THe Subdecay pedal sounds like it'll make the soound I want. But, so does THIS, and maybe
too. THIS ONE is four knob, which makes it more likely to be similar to the Boss BF-3. What do you guys think of them?

I think the momentary feature you mentioned in the BF-3, Winston, might be what Prince was using. He only kicked the sound in for a short accent, and it went right back off after a few seconds. I like the idea of not having to kick it twice. Being a clumsy old fart, I have to be careful not to trip over my own feet. So, that might be the deciding factor...

EDIT: Did a bit of research on Prince's signal chain, and I think the BF-3 version hadn't been invented yet at the time that video was made. So, it looks like the I'll have to tap dance to get that effect.

 

Why not go for the Boss BF-3? Seems like it'll very easily let you do exactly what you cite liking in that Prince performance and more, it has that Momentary Mode option for the footswitch, you can get them new or used NOW- AND you could also very easily and quickly replace it if lost, stolen, or sold, even if you were out on the road traveling between gigs (it'll happen again). It sounds great and is likely very dependable and roadworthy! It's got stereo outs (stereo flanging sounds amazing), AND it even has separate instrument-specific optimized Guitar and Bass inputs.

 

You could even score a used/vintage Boss BF-2 Flanger if you wanted to- the same one that Prince was using, I believe- and maybe for even less; those are all-analog, the BF-3 is digital, that may or may not be important to you. Though I think that between those two, I'd go with the BF-3 for the useful added features and options.

 

Now, whichever flanger you get swept away with, two things about the sound of the effects in that recorded clip:

 

- I believe that along with the Flanger and the overdrive or distortion that Winston pointed out above, there is also some echo, delay effect after the Flanger; and probably nothing fancy, not specifically tape-this or drum-that, I'd imagine that just about any halfway decent sounding delay would do just fine. The few echo repeats- maybe even only one repeat- really accents and emphasizes that Flanger sweep and makes it sound like it's 'swirling', as the flanger-sweep that the notes played are going through is also being heard alongside the point in that sweep of the echo-repeats; follow me? It adds a perceived quasi three-dimensional depth, even in mono.

 

- Having the 'Resonance', 'Feedback', or 'Regeneration' (commonly used terms for the same thing) fairly high, most likely at least at "Noon" or higher, will accentuate the flanging sweep and that jet-plane, orbital "swoosh". Especially with a little echo following! Think that "going into orbit" sound, Van Halen's "And the Cradle Will Rock" and "Unchained"...

 

Whichever source of swoosh, woosh, wiggle 'n' warble you go with, let us know what you get and how you like it; keep us posted!

Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

 

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~

_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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Some good points there, Caevan!

 

One thought is that Prince was very likely still using a Boss DM-2 or DM-3 Analog Delay in his rig, which would have a much smoother "roll-off" than the earliest Boss Digital Delays, like the DD-2. The DM-3 had a Direct Out jack, which would have given a faux 3-d effect; not exactly Stereo Delay, just a split signal.

 

I had a BF-2 for a long time, and got to A/B it with the BF-3 when it came out: FWIW, the BF-3 was very close, but somehow not quite there for me? I'm not an Analog snob, by any means, just something lacking in the overall tone.

 

Couple of tips: Phasers in particular LOVE overtones and harmonics, and a bit of Overdrive will give them a lot to work with. Heavy Distortion into a slow Flanger can sound like you're playing a Chain Saw. Another thing to remember is that EVH got a lot of his sound by running his Mod FX into an overdriven Amp, like a Mod -> OD signal chain. Try a mild OD after your favorite Phaser or Flanger, see if that gives you the sound you want?

"Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King

 

http://www.novparolo.com

 

https://thewinstonpsmithproject.bandcamp.com

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  • 1 year later...

Hey, picker- did you ever get a flanger?

I ran across this fantastic deal on a vintage Boss BF-2 Flanger, the same as what Prince used, on Reverb:

Boss BF-2 Flanger Used – Good  ($70 as I type this)


Just be sure to use the appropriate power supply with it, some (all?) BF-2's require 12v.

And here's my clean tone- ehr, I mean, here's an excellent demonstration of it and its control settings: 😉
 


 

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Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

 

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~

_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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I have that Boss Flanger (I got it back a few years ago from a friend who apparently borrowed it decades ago...)... I used the hell out of it to get some Police, Prince, Fixx, U2, Psychedelic Furs, Big Country, Pretenders, XTC, Smiths, Duran Duran, INXS sounds as a kid. A big box EH PolyChorus kind of nudged it aside, and some inexpensive tiny but pretty good Donner or Moer thing has lately been what I put on my board if I have to do a flange part in something... but the Boss is a gem.

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BF-2 was my main Flanger for years, and a lot of those 80's bands probably used it, too. It was really hard to get a bad sound out of it.

 

Robert Smith and Billy Duffy were big Boss fans, and Duffy still is, AFAIK.

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"Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King

 

http://www.novparolo.com

 

https://thewinstonpsmithproject.bandcamp.com

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Decades ago I was in a used gear shop in New York trying out pedals. I plugged in a Boss BF2. Sounded fine but was really noisy. The sales guy found a Boss HF2 flanger in the pedal pile. Same basic sound but about 20dB quieter. I bought that one. But my interest in flangers is now about zero. The subtle movement of the Boss DC3 Dimension Chorus spoiled me. The overused robotic up/down sweep of my Electric Mistress flanger is a big flaw in all my early recordings. When you don't have a lot of effects it's easy to use what you do have way too much.

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Scott Fraser
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7 hours ago, Scott Fraser said:

Decades ago I was in a used gear shop in New York trying out pedals. I plugged in a Boss BF2. Sounded fine but was really noisy. The sales guy found a Boss HF2 flanger in the pedal pile. Same basic sound but about 20dB quieter. I bought that one.


If there was a way to prove either way, I'd bet that he was powering that BF-2 with 9v instead of 12v; a common issue which results in poor quality and higher noise issues.

Personally, I have no want or need for the BF-2, since I have a fantastic original 1979 MXR M-117 Flanger which, IMHO, outshines the BF-2 all around and will pretty much nail anything you'd want from the BF-2 but better. (It's probably lower-noise, as well.) And while my old/classic TC Electronic "Stereo Chorus/Flanger + Pitch Modulator" has a different sort of sound- largely, it seems, because of the LFO (I don't really know?), it is vastly superior in quality in every way, especially frequency range, hi-fi cleanness, and low noise-floor.

HOWEVER, both of those would probably be much pricier; and if one wanted to nail the sound of the example that picker originally gave, an old BF-2 would be a fast-track to that with almost no effort involved in control-settings.

(The one I found for $70 has apparently been sold; but there are others there at various asking prices, and some have the option to "Make an Offer"... )
 

  

7 hours ago, Scott Fraser said:

But my interest in flangers is now about zero. The subtle movement of the Boss DC3 Dimension Chorus spoiled me. The overused robotic up/down sweep of my Electric Mistress flanger is a big flaw in all my early recordings.


I highly doubt it's a flaw at all, and especially not a "big" one... But, I know whatcha mean.

And I also know what you mean about the constant, even and repetitive LFO sweep; I would love to have the LFO Drift and Random features of the Walrus Audio Juliana Deluxe Chorus/Vibrato- and also a dynamic envelope-control- added as modifications to my MXR M-117 and TC Electronic StCh/Fl... !

 

7 hours ago, Scott Fraser said:

When you don't have a lot of effects it's easy to use what you do have way too much.


Guilty as charged right here! 😁 And I have A LOT of effects!

 

 

8 hours ago, Winston Psmith said:

BF-2 was my main Flanger for years, and a lot of those 80's bands probably used it, too. It was really hard to get a bad sound out of it.

 

Robert Smith and Billy Duffy were big Boss fans, and Duffy still is, AFAIK.


Well put! It's one of those classic examples used on many classic recordings. I would have bought one back in the '80s, myself- but the TC St Ch/Fl pretty much kicked it to the curb... ! 😄 So that's what I bought back then... 😎 THAT pedal was a key part of my sound, particularly with the band that was in at the time...
 

Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

 

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~

_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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Funny thing with those Boss pedals running 12 Volts off the ACA adapter; if you put them in a daisy-chain, they would run off of the 9 Volt output. I had my BF-2 in one of the original Boss BCB-6 Pedalboards, which basically ran off of a daisy-chain connected through the Boss PSM-5 (Power Supply/Master Switch).

 

The only significant difference with the HF-2 was that it ran at half the Delay time of the BF-2, which resulted in a higher-pitched  Flanger sound, overall. The Delay Time on the BF-2 ran from 1 mS, up to 13 Ms; on the HF-2, Delay Time ran from 0.5 mS to 6.5 mS.

 

BTW, it is possible to "tune" your Flanger, although I use the term rather loosely. If your Flanger has a Manual control, the Manual control sets the Delay Time of the Flanger; shorter Delay Times result in a higher-pitched Flanger sound, while longer Delay Times produce a deeper, "throatier", Flanger sound.

 

I've mentioned this before, but for anyone who loves the sound of a Flanger or Phaser, but not the constant LFO noise in the background, try the Keeley Bubbletron; Dynamically-driven Phasing and Flanging. You can get conventional Phaser, Flanger or Envelope Filter sounds out of the Bubbletron, but the Dynamic settings for the Phaser and Flanger may change your opinion about using them.

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"Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King

 

http://www.novparolo.com

 

https://thewinstonpsmithproject.bandcamp.com

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