Mighty Motif Max Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Yep, and I"m pretty sure when it"s a mic signal, it"s mono out to a Roland KC to a mono mic. Quote Yamaha: Motif XF8, MODX7, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, PSS-470 | Roland: Fantom 7, JV-1000 Kurzweil: PC3-76, PC4 (88) | Hammond: SK Pro 73 | Korg: Triton LE 76, N1R, X5DR | Emu: Proteus/1 | Casio: CT-370 | Novation: Launchkey 37 MK3 | Technics: WSA1R Former: Emu Proformance Plus & Mo'Phatt, Korg Krome 61, Roland Fantom XR & JV-1010, Yamaha MX61, Behringer CAT Assorted electric & acoustic guitars and electric basses | Roland TD-17 KVX | Alesis SamplePad Pro | Assorted organs, accordions, other instruments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Quinn Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 For James to say no one should play this keyboard at any level is extreme IMHO â I can"t agree with that. I was away from home for a few weeks in February and brought the PX-S3000 to practice on. It"s so slim it fit on the back floor of the car and was no higher than the seats. For me, it"s a great travel keyboard. Given the size and price constraints Casio challenged themselves with I think they did a great job. I enjoy playing it and can play expressively on it, but of course it"s a compromise and can be distracting at times. It seems logical that the slimness causes a compromise with the pivot point. So, as I mentioned a while back in the PX-S3000 thread, I"m unable to play with nuance In keys that use a lot of black keys. So, that"s a compromise for sure (for me). I thought it was just because the force required to press a key increases greatly when moving closer to the fall board, but I checked and James is right: the end of the white keys and the end of the black keys require a different amount of force. I checked my acoustic piano (Yamaha C3) and the force required for the black and white keys felt the same and didn"t vary noticeably from front to back. I checked my CP4 and it was much closer to the acoustic piano. I can play the CP4 with nuance and am not distracted by the action. I"m not surprised some folks are happy using the PX-S3000 for gigs. I used it on a classic rock gig and it was fine. For jazz gigs I"ll continue to use the CP4 as it enables me to play with more nuance. Recently, I was in a store where they had a PX-S1000 and Yamaha P-125 setup close to each other. I went back and forth between the two and found that the P-125 action was less of a compromise than the PX-S1000. And, that the p-125 speakers sounded better. When I was recently asked for a recommendation for a good but inexpensive digital piano for a child to learn on I suggested the P-125 rather than the PX-S1000 because of the action. I wasn"t offended by James" reviews â we"re all entitled to our own opinion â but deleting negative comments is out of bounds for me. Not cool at all. Quote https://alquinn.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam CA Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Thanks for clarifying....but apparently was a child prodigy..... Interesting. His piano progress over the years is well documented on YouTube. By the time he was able to play more advanced repertoire, he was too old to fit in that category. A good young pianist is more appropriate. Again I'm just going by his videos,so I could be wrong. Quote www.youtube.com/c/InTheMixReviews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Acoustic grand pianos are meticulously regulated with weights and adjustments so that the keys have a smooth gradient from the lowest note to the top. The lowest notes will be slightly heavier due to the weight of the larger hammers, whereas the top notes will be slightly lighter. This is known as a 'graded hammer action' in the digital piano world. The black keys should not vary that much from their surrounding neighbors. I have not watched the video but everything is a compromise. A digital piano will never be an acoustic piano. A clonewheel will never be a vintage Hammond. The only question is how much you are willing to compromise and what are the important criteria for you? I've played the S1000 and S3000 and thought they played beautifully. Then again, I started on organ and that's my primary instrument, so I prefer a lighter action than most pianists. I didn't notice a huge difference between the black and white keys. Quote Keep it greazy! B3tles - Soul Jazz THEO - Prog Rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 It"s not noticeable at first, but after a while... Quote Find 660 of my jazz piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Harry was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jahfume Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 Posted this in the wrong thread! Duh! Just an observation but this mega thread; https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbth...piano-key-action-and-static-touchweights measures the casio PX1000 down weight at middle C to be 74grams So maybe those weights are a dangerous instument in the hands of a lay person? He dose one video where he compares his Steinway D with a Yamaha CP88 - its unbearable and a total waste of time - shows off his Steinway nicely though.So a successful video. In another vid he talks about sympathetic resonance and its painfully obvious he dose not understand it has nothing to do with the dampers. Another hate of mine is the monotony of his test piece/ pieces.Satie's Gnossienne No1 is painfully slow (Bit of a theme going on here;-)) In the up-thread vid he says there is one Digital Piano forum where no matter what the topic by the second page people are throwing insults at each other. I wonder what that forum is - cant be this one surely! ...but when you smile at the camera....Hes's very good at that! (Meant to say he confused sympathetic resonance with damper resonance.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 I have not watched the video but everything is a compromise. A digital piano will never be an acoustic piano. A clonewheel will never be a vintage Hammond. The only question is how much you are willing to compromise and what are the important criteria for you? I've played the S1000 and S3000 and thought they played beautifully. Then again, I started on organ and that's my primary instrument, so I prefer a lighter action than most pianists. I didn't notice a huge difference between the black and white keys. Exactly, and that's what my comment on his youtube said â Casio was trying for a certain weight, size, and price point and they made some compromises to get there. As you might see if you read it, I tried to be charitable in my next reply. FWIW I only tried a PSX-3000 once at a music store and it was a while ago. I don't remember feeling anything wrong v.a.v. white vs black keys, but maybe my meat hooks can't tell what's going on, who knows? I did just get back from my teaching gig where there is a Casio PX160, an 88-key DP almost half the price of the 3000 ($450). While I was there I slowly tried pushing a white, then black key and could detect no obvious difference in the force required. As I suspected, now that I'm home & looking at specs, I see that although the PX160 is about the same weight as the 1000/3000, it's noticeably larger: 11.5 x 52 x 5.5 inches versus 9 x 52 x 4 inches for the 1000/3000. The 160 also has Casio's "Tri-Sensor Scaled Hammer Action II" keybed while the 1000/3000 has the "newly designed fully weighted Smart Scaled Hammer Action keyboard" â so, a new design, in a smaller form factor. It's not a surprise that there's a difference in how it feels compared to other Casio DPs. Anyway, if you're doing reviews comparing DP sounds listening in mono through a Roland KC amp, sorry but that's an immediate cancel from me â I don't care how many followers he has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 And Aidan, are you referring to yourself as a grumpy old man, or applying that comment to the preceding post? Also, if the guy you think is up his own arse, James Pavel, or someone else that maybe the "he" refers to earlier?. Sorry Mark, yes me the grumpy git and our young YT pianist friend the victim of head in rectal insertion syndrome. Quote Studio: Yamaha P515 | Yamaha Tyros 5 | Yamaha HX1 | Moog Sub 37 Road: Yamaha YC88 | Nord Electro 5D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Schmieder Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 OK, I thought that was what you were getting at. :-) I thought it was just me, but it seems there's consensus on this forum on that score. Quote Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, D'angelico SS Bari, EXL1, Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, LP 57, Eastman T486, T64, Ibanez PM2, Hammond XK4, Moog Voyager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
16251 Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 I ended up buying a PX-S3000 after selling my CP4, which is much more expensive DP, but was never enamored with. I also wanted a lower price DP, since it will mostly sit in my closet. Every time I played the Casio, I always had to re-acclimate my technique with it. I'm not sure if it was due to the issue talked about here but it makes sense to me. I never had this problem with my many previous models over a 30+ year career. I was lucky enough to sell it quickly and not lose to much money. I could go through many other reasons I disliked the Casio but there's no need to elaborate here. Looking back I see no reason the PXS was designed to be the thinnest DP, I mean Casio has already made their previous models light enough. I see the new size, the touch screen, the knobs, and the 700 sounds all just a way to sell pianos to a young digital savvy buyer. I wager that newer models will move away from being as thin or thinner. Quote AvantGrand N2 | ES520 | Gallien-Krueger MK & MP | https://soundcloud.com/pete36251 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uhoh7 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 Today I setup and played a Casio PXS3000. After the whole "flaw" accusation by James, which I tended to believe, it was......alot better that I expected. Yes it has a short hinge, and I don't doubt the Yamaha and Kawai competition is better. But considering the variation in real-life piano actions I find the use of the word "flaw" is not warranted. It's a short hinge...and maybe best anybody ever made. But it's a short hinge. Anyone playing APs or Tonewheels feels the deep luxury of a long hinge. Numa CX2 has really short hinge too, or it seems like it. But my Virus TI 61 TP-8S (I think) is.....great. I never felt a nicer electronic action. But I haven't tried the latest Kawai actions. Anyway, the new slim casio was impressive to me, for such a narrow board, but of course it's not like the real thing, just another imitation with personality. The casio board is not "that" light....the Numa CX2 is a feather in comparison, but other wise they are a similar size---with Casio deeper I think. My old SL-880 with Fatar TP-10/MDF is more convincing as a piano action (once tweaked) than the Casio felt today, but that monster is ALOT bigger. Anyway do alot of folks dislike the Casio PXS action? I know we can be picky about our weighted actions. LOL Quote RT-3/U-121/Leslie 21H and 760/Saltarelle Nuage/MOXF6/MIDIhub, SL-880/Nektar T4/Numa Cx2/Deepmind12/Virus TI 61/SL61 mk2 Stylophone R8/Behringer RD-8/Proteus 1/MP-7/Zynthian 4 MPC1k/JV1010/Unitor 8/Model D & 2600/WX-5&7/VL70m/DMP-18 Pedals Natal drums/congas etc & misc bowed/plucked/blown instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timwat Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 Anyway do alot of folks dislike the Casio PXS action? I know we can be picky about our weighted actions. LOL I like it, personally. I bought one and will gig it once I get back to gigging. Quote .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Lobo Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 I like my 3000. I enjoy playing it. I don't use most of the features in it. I like playing the acoustic piano. I like the feel of the keyboard. I read this thread when it started 3 months ago. The thing about the video and the issue of the weights on the keys that bothered me is that I didn't see or hear any info about the weights on other keyboards. Unless I missed it, I don't know if it takes the same weight to depress the keys on a good acoustic piano or a lot more or a lot less. And I don't know if there's much difference in the weights to depress white vs. black keys on other digital and acoustic pianos. I've been a research scientist for 45 years. The lack of comparable data makes the comments about weights on the 3000 of no value. No comparison can be made so no conclusions can be drawn about this specific issue. Maybe this data is presented elsewhere but I didn't notice any in the video. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Quote These are only my opinions, not supported by any actual knowledge, experience, or expertise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 I'm quite happy with my 1000. I got it so I could sit outside and play with friends, and I've really been enjoying it. I have no problem with the keybed. It's actually surprising to me that Casio didn't have to settle on one with a more artificial feel to hit the price point and weight that they wanted. I also quite like the onboard system - especially the ability to turn on a "surround" mode, and think it's pretty cool that it runs on 6 AA batteries. Nice idea to have it receive BlueTooth as well - not a bad feature to be able to play your favorite playlist through it and jam along....even outside, nowhere near a power outlet if you want. At the end of the day, I'm way digging having a decent piano I can pick up under one arm, go anywhere I want and play. About time... dB Quote ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 "a more artificial feel to hit the price point and weight that they wanted" this is really the crux of it. what one's expectations are for the price, size and weight. the complaints have nothing to do with that, but those are really important things to consider. if you don't mind paying more, or having an increase in size and weight, then you can afford to be much pickier about how it feels. Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 I like my 3000. I enjoy playing it. You don't really have to go any farther than this. Debating on the features and performance of these digital instruments is for "pros/semi-pros", teachers, discerning enthusiasts, players that learned on the acoustic instruments these facsimiles seek to substitute for, etc. Developers, dealers, etc. are always frustrated by these conversations because casual players are swayed by them. But if you are happy, that's all that matters. Play! Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
16251 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 Anyway do alot of folks dislike the Casio PXS action? I know we can be picky about our weighted actions. LOL I like it, personally. I bought one and will gig it once I get back to gigging. I liked it, until I started playing gigs with it. Funny, the same thing happened with my first Casio, the Privia PX-320. The main reason I bought both were the allure of their overall light weight and acceptable acoustic piano sound. No need to repeat my laundry list of dislikes but ironically, the list is longer with the S series. Quote AvantGrand N2 | ES520 | Gallien-Krueger MK & MP | https://soundcloud.com/pete36251 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Motif Max Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 Anyway do alot of folks dislike the Casio PXS action? I know we can be picky about our weighted actions. LOL I stand by my earlier statement in this thread. I don"t care for the S1000/3000 action though, because it"s hard on the wrists. Played one of each for about an hour each. Something strange about the pivot point, and depth combined; the angle is odd and not something I"d prefer to play on. Slow stuff is okay, but most of my piano gigging material is ragtime and older jazz, and it falls flat very quickly for that, for me. I did notice the sharp weight difference as well, and I think that"s part of what bugged me. Hard on the tendons. Quote Yamaha: Motif XF8, MODX7, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, PSS-470 | Roland: Fantom 7, JV-1000 Kurzweil: PC3-76, PC4 (88) | Hammond: SK Pro 73 | Korg: Triton LE 76, N1R, X5DR | Emu: Proteus/1 | Casio: CT-370 | Novation: Launchkey 37 MK3 | Technics: WSA1R Former: Emu Proformance Plus & Mo'Phatt, Korg Krome 61, Roland Fantom XR & JV-1010, Yamaha MX61, Behringer CAT Assorted electric & acoustic guitars and electric basses | Roland TD-17 KVX | Alesis SamplePad Pro | Assorted organs, accordions, other instruments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam CA Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 I've had the S3000 for a while but I left it at the control room of one of the churches that I do choir works for. I never played anything besides sacred music and really liked it for what it had to offer. After Corona shutdown, I brought it home recently and spent some time with it. For light playing is totally fine. I would totally use it as a travel keyboard as well, but I wouldn't recommend it as the only practice keyboard for advanced repertoire. I find the keys way too soft for my preference. To me the weight difference becomes noticeable with smaller note values at a higher tempo. It makes it little hard to control phrasing and dynamics, because you constantly have to change your playing style to make up for the weight difference. Again for casual playing none of this matters. It's a good keyboard for the price range. I used it as a controller to play some Brahms. I played the whole thing but skipped the repeats to keep it short. Quote www.youtube.com/c/InTheMixReviews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 I've had the S3000 for a while but I left it at the control room of one of the churches that I do choir works for. I never played anything besides sacred music and really liked it for what it had to offer. After Corona shutdown, I brought it home recently and spent some time with it. For light playing is totally fine. I would totally use it as a travel keyboard as well, but I wouldn't recommend it as the only practice keyboard for advanced repertoire. I find the keys way too soft for my preference. To me the weight difference becomes noticeable with smaller note values at a higher tempo. It makes it little hard to control phrasing and dynamics, because you constantly have to change your playing style to make up for the weight difference. Again for casual playing none of this matters. It's a good keyboard for the price range. I used it as a controller to play some Brahms. I played the whole thing but skipped the repeats to keep it short. Just to clarify the post above. That isn"t the sound of the Casio. That video is using an NI Kontakt piano library called Noire. Nice playing. I love Brahms piano music. This one is largely in Gm and related keys. Have you tried playing anything in Gb or F# or something that requires a lot of note on triggers and velocity messages close to the fall board? Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam CA Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 Just to clarify the post above. That isn"t the sound of the Casio. That video is using an NI Kontakt piano library called Noire. Nice playing. I love Brahms piano music. This one is largely in Gm and related keys. Have you tried playing anything in Gb or F# or something that requires a lot of note on triggers and velocity messages close to the fall board? Yes, I'm only using the S3000 as a controller, so that's not Casio's audio at all. Yes, I used it to play around with Chopin and Liszt etudes just to see how it responds. I don't think this board is designed for that type of performance. I could if I had to, but i would probably get a ton of ghost notes. I find light action keyboards very fatiguing. I also felt I was getting drop outs with thick harmonies, but didn't spend more time to confirm that. Quote www.youtube.com/c/InTheMixReviews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Nathan Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 All this time I've been judging my keyboards by just playing them Who knew I was supposed to place jewelers weights on the ends of the keys. I love my 3000, and love the way it plays. Quote Don't rush me. I'm playing as slowly as I can! http://www.stevenathanmusic.com/stevenathanmusic.com/HOME.html https://apple.co/2EGpYXK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CowboyNQ Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 I used it as a controller to play some Brahms. I played the whole thing but skipped the repeats to keep it short. No opinion on the keybed - never touched one - but wanted to quickly say "nice playing". Normal service may resume now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Lobo Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 All this time I've been judging my keyboards by just playing them Who knew I was supposed to place jewelers weights on the ends of the keys. I love my 3000, and love the way it plays.Yes. That's kind of related to the point I was making earlier about no comparable data from other keyboards. If placing weights on the ends of keys is a meaningful way of evaluating keyboards, then how do other keyboards stack up? I have no idea. In the absence of data, "loving the way it plays" is far more important as an evaluation criterion than how much weight it takes to depress white and black keys. Quote These are only my opinions, not supported by any actual knowledge, experience, or expertise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam CA Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 Thanks a lot CowboyNQ, ............. Yes, I would definitely judge any instrument by its playability. It's so weird when people make statements like 'no one should play this keyboard' and such. Quote www.youtube.com/c/InTheMixReviews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Quinn Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 Very nice Sam! You controlled the dynamics beautifully and balanced the volume of the softer accompaniment voices in a way that seemed to match your intent. Of course, it"s the artist not the brush. Thanks for sharing. I"m happy with my PX-S3000 as a travel board and midi controller. I tried playing some soft Beethoven in Ab and was frustrated by my inability to control the volume of the inner voices (because the music often pulled my hands toward the fallboard). So, for me, it"s not for that type of playing but it"s very good for lots of other music and I"m glad to have it. Quote https://alquinn.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 Try three sets of vigorous playing for a week on the S series, some bebop while you are at it. I couldn't stay focused, the action fatigued me. I felt like I was running a twenty-mile marathon with heavy shoes on. I have played professionally since 1975 and owned each of the following digital piano models: Roland MKS 20 Piano Module (1986) Roland P-330 Piano Module Roland RD-200 Roland MKS60 Kurzweil P2000 Piano Module Kurzweill MicroPiano module Fatar 76 controller for modules Yamaha P120 Yamaha P250 Yamaha P90 Technics SX-P50 (anyone remember this one?) Kurzweil PC2X Roland FP2 Roland FP3 Kawai ES4 Roland FP4 Roland FP4F Roland FP50 Casio PX360 Casio PX-S3000 Kawai ES110 (the best so far) Before these, I used a Fender Rhodes or a Wurlizer EP110. Quote Find 660 of my jazz piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Harry was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 I was stoked to play the PX-S3000 after hearing about it here. I kept popping into my local GC and Sam Ash to see if they had one on the floor yet. They never got one, but the PX-S1000 did show up finally and I got to play it with a bunch of other current models like - CP-88, MODX8, GrandStage (I"ll throw those in another category entirely, can"t expect the PX-S1000 to compete with those - CP-88 is my favorite feeling here) and FP-30, ES-110, P-125 (ES-110 is my favorite feeling of this line up). I personally passed on the new Casio action because of the short keys/dead area by the fall board. But I respect the effort to get a decent playing action into a slim light case. Despite being noisier, I personally prefer the previous Casio action on PX models like the 160, 360, 560, 5S, etc. Being lighter and thinner is not important to me because I already have a 560 (same action as a 160 or 360) and it"s plenty light. YMMV that"s just my reasoning. Everyone has shared their perspective, so, I throw it out there for variety. Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 I prefer the previous PX 360 action too, it did not fatigue on multiple set gigs. Quote Find 660 of my jazz piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Harry was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipeb3 Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 I personally prefer the previous Casio action on PX models like the 160, 360, 560, 5S, etc. I haven't played a 1000 or a 3000, so I can't comment on that, but I really like the action on my 160. I know it's not perfect, but it really works for me. Last year I picked up a 560, and although Casio says they use the same key bed on all their DP's, the 560's action is totally different. I mean totally... Anybody else notice this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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