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Bookings are coming in!
#3046490 05/30/20 03:35 AM
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I'm in Vero Beach, FL which isn't exactly a hot spot. Our governor and local officials have been relatively progressive about re-openings. Life here is like 95% of normal.

The good news? We're getting hammered with requests to play outdoor venues. Even traditional indoor venues have realized they have to figure out how to do outside gigs.

No joke, in the last week we've gotten five different booking requests from venue owners. We're actually debating what gigs to take, and which ones to pass on. Joy.

The band is happy, as am I. Ain't no band drama when you see a flood of gigs after a drought.

Social distancing? If you're fearful, please stay home. Otherwise we plan to rock it for the folks.


Life is too short to be playing bad music.

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Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3046492 05/30/20 03:41 AM
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Originally Posted by cphollis
I'm in Vero Beach, FL which isn't exactly a hot spot. Our governor and local officials have been relatively progressive about re-openings. Life here is like 95% of normal.

The good news? We're getting hammered with requests to play outdoor venues. Even traditional indoor venues have realized they have to figure out how to do outside gigs.

No joke, in the last week we've gotten five different booking requests from venue owners. We're actually debating what gigs to take, and which ones to pass on. Joy.

The band is happy, as am I. Ain't no band drama when you see a flood of gigs after a drought.

Social distancing? If you're fearful, please stay home. Otherwise we plan to rock it for the folks.

I'm hearing the same.
Infections and deaths are going way down and the cratering of the economy is expected to bounce back quicker than it went down. Very much a good development!!

Last edited by JazzPiano88; 05/30/20 02:21 PM.

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Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3046504 05/30/20 04:55 AM
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How aggressive! Record number of cases here, but rock on.

Last edited by Fusker; 05/30/20 04:57 AM.

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Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3046514 05/30/20 05:48 AM
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The happy talk doesn't resonate with me at this particular moment in American history, but music isn't just for happy times. You can make a strong argument that it's even more important in troubled times. So I think whatever it takes to bring music to the people in a safe manner is what we should be doing. People need live music. Ask not what they can do for you.


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Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3046519 05/30/20 06:07 AM
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My next gig still isn't until November, but my original metal band doesn't play often anyway, especially in the middle of recording a CD like we are now (2 songs in the can, 2 more in the works, 1 additional started). But my friends have started landing them. Lake of the ozarks seemed to have plenty of gigs last weekend - you probably saw Backwater Jacks in the national news. Point of order on that....it was ONE place at a lake with 1,150 miles of shoreline, most of which is fairly remote. Also they were taking temperatures and handing out single serving sanitizer to each person entering. But that's OT as they didn't even have live music. Things are picking up.

The BIGGEST source of live music so far that MANY of my musician friends have played including one I used to be in myself, is the Metro Powerplex....pretty cool concept. They are combining outdoor drive-in theater with outdoor live concerts.....music followed by a movie. CLONK

It's been wildly popular and sold out consistently.


Dan

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Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3046524 05/30/20 06:37 AM
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Some extremely limited bookings here, and I know a couple of people who have accepted a few, but that won't be me any time soon. A couple across the canyon wants to hire a colleague and me to play their Zoom wedding--us socially distant from each other on their patio, and no one else there in person. That's about the extent of what I'd do right now.


"
Re: Bookings are coming in!
MathOfInsects #3046525 05/30/20 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by MathOfInsects
Some extremely limited bookings here, and I know a couple of people who have accepted a few, but that won't be me any time soon. A couple across the canyon wants to hire a colleague and me to play their Zoom wedding--us socially distant from each other on their patio, and no one else there in person. That's about the extent of what I'd do right now.

It'll be a risk/reward calculation that gets updated every day. The risk and reward statistics are supplied by various people with various biases and various goals.

To me, it's a random crap shoot due to all of the biased interests.

To others, they watch their TV shows to get their numerator and denominator.


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Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3046529 05/30/20 07:48 AM
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I was in Golden Gate park this last weekend playing my keyboard with a bass player and 15 drummers at Hippie Hill. Was amazed at how many people were outdoors enjoying the park on a beautiful day having family/friends picnics and what not. Haven't seen that kind of action for quite a few years, you could tell people were happy to be outside, with others.


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Re: Bookings are coming in!
JazzPiano88 #3046552 05/30/20 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by JazzPiano88
Originally Posted by MathOfInsects
Some extremely limited bookings here, and I know a couple of people who have accepted a few, but that won't be me any time soon. A couple across the canyon wants to hire a colleague and me to play their Zoom wedding--us socially distant from each other on their patio, and no one else there in person. That's about the extent of what I'd do right now.

It'll be a risk/reward calculation that gets updated every day. The risk and reward statistics are supplied by various people with various biases and various goals.

To me, it's a random crap shoot due to all of the biased interests.

To others, they watch their TV shows to get their numerator and denominator.

You seem to have a poor opinion of your fellow man. It's just like anything else, you get information from as many sources as you can so you can best triangulate towards the truth. That's what smart people do. Not unlike deciding whether to buy a keyboard you haven't yourself played, but with much higher stakes.

I'd say CPHollis is playing his cards pretty smart taking outdoor gigs in the warm Fla sunshine.


Gigging: Yamaha YC61, Crumar Mojo 61, Moog Subsequent 37, Yamaha P121
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Re: Bookings are coming in!
RandyFF #3046554 05/30/20 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Randelph
I was in Golden Gate park this last weekend playing my keyboard with a bass player and 15 drummers at Hippie Hill. Was amazed at how many people were outdoors enjoying the park on a beautiful day having family/friends picnics and what not. Haven't seen that kind of action for quite a few years, you could tell people were happy to be outside, with others.

Only 15 hand drums on Hippie Hill? How on earth did they keep a beat?

But seriously, it sounds fun. In my previous life, before having kids and fleeing to the suburbs I might have been there with you wielding a melodica.


Gigging: Yamaha YC61, Crumar Mojo 61, Moog Subsequent 37, Yamaha P121
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Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3046562 05/30/20 03:58 PM
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There's a couple of clubs in my area that are starting to bring in single entertainers, but that's it - and probably will be for the indefinite future. Cruise ships would normally be arriving on an almost daily basis by now, but there's no way that's happening at all. The most popular tourist destinations in the Gorge are still closed.

What bands do - and what I do for that matter - I can't see that happening until things open up a bit, and clubs can stay open past 10pm. The requirements in Oregon for that are so stringent that it may not even be possible until there's a vaccine. Any thought that I might have had about an outdoor DJ gig this summer has pretty much vanished. The venue is right next to a riverfront park, and they're not even going to open it up for the 4th of July fireworks display.

Those of you who have gigs: Congratulations! smile I would if I could...

Re: Bookings are coming in!
Adan #3046567 05/30/20 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Adan
Originally Posted by Randelph
I was in Golden Gate park this last weekend playing my keyboard with a bass player and 15 drummers at Hippie Hill. Was amazed at how many people were outdoors enjoying the park on a beautiful day having family/friends picnics and what not. Haven't seen that kind of action for quite a few years, you could tell people were happy to be outside, with others.

Only 15 hand drums on Hippie Hill? How on earth did they keep a beat?

But seriously, it sounds fun. In my previous life, before having kids and fleeing to the suburbs I might have been there with you wielding a melodica.
Cool! Well, I'd have a mic for you with some sweet 'verb on it, you need a sound boost when you've got so many drummers!

I've been going for the last 20 years to the hippie hill drum circle, it's probably been 5-10 years since I've seen such a festive atmosphere, folks were stoked to be out there!

Last edited by Randelph; 05/30/20 04:26 PM.

Randy
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Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3046569 05/30/20 04:28 PM
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I resigned from my gigging band this morning. The bass player, a retired doctor, had quit a couple days ago because he didn't want to be "that guy" that held the band back. I think he knows the risks better than any of the rest of us. Band leader is gung ho and ready to play anywhere, anytime. I'm not up for being in a state of paranoia every time a gig is booked, and am fortunate that I don't need the income.

Feels like a turning point - I'm not sure if or when I will ever get back to playing live.


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Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3046573 05/30/20 04:41 PM
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Greater NYC area, there will be out door dining soon, restaurants have to apply for permit to see if they can do it responsibly. Mid June we’ll have a better idea if relaxing of restrictions can continue.


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Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3046580 05/30/20 05:02 PM
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Everyone has their own risk/reward calculation. I get my inputs from a variety of sources as there's a bunch of well-meaning but utterly misguided information out there. Florida has been very good with data transparency, not only what the numbers are but what's included or excluded. As a result, you can make well-informed decisions.

Community spread cases in this particular FL county are now statistically rare. Cases of outdoor transmission of CoVID-19 anywhere are even more statistically rare.

Take two very small numbers, multiply them together and you'll get a much smaller number. Of course, everyone's situation is different.


Life is too short to be playing bad music.

Keys: NP4, NS3C
Home: Bosie 200, Yam AG N3
Amps: FA 12ac, RCF TT08a, QSC K.2, EVOX J8, SSv3, Westone IEMs
Stuff: Stay stands, Key Largo, Vent II, X-Air 18
Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3046583 05/30/20 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by cphollis
Everyone has their own risk/reward calculation. I get my inputs from a variety of sources as there's a bunch of well-meaning but utterly misguided information out there. Florida has been very good with data transparency, not only what the numbers are but what's included or excluded. As a result, you can make well-informed decisions.

Community spread cases in this particular FL county are now statistically rare. Cases of outdoor transmission of CoVID-19 anywhere are even more statistically rare.

Take two very small numbers, multiply them together and you'll get a much smaller number. Of course, everyone's situation is different.

What do you believe the situation in FL is closer to the populated areas? Miami, Tampa, etc. How about in and around the villages where most everyone living there is in a high risk age and health group?


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Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3046586 05/30/20 05:21 PM
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Interesting dichotomy.....one camp is all like, "Virus? What virus! If you're afraid of that silly little thing stay away....we're gonna party!" The other (the one I'm a member of) doesn't see the numbers plummeting like the first group seems to. Everything I read says that on the scale of what's safe and what's not, bars and restaurants (indoor) are way, WAY high in the risk department....I turned down one of my monthly gigs for July, it would have been indoor in a place that is air conditioning averse to start with. The other two guys in the band are going to go ahead and do it with a sub, and I'll revisit it in August. I figure by then things will either calm down, remain static, or it will be armageddon out there, and the decision will be made for me. My biggest thought is, even if I'M ok with the risk, I sure as hell don't want to bring it home to my wife. Needless to say, if I did that and she didn't make it I don't know how I'd ever live with myself.....

Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3046588 05/30/20 05:23 PM
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I have an outdoor gig in 5 hours! Playing outside on the asphalt! Present temperature is in the 80's, sunny (baking the asphalt) and humid. This is what I've been waiting for ???


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Re: Bookings are coming in!
Delaware Dave #3046596 05/30/20 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Delaware Dave
I have an outdoor gig in 5 hours! Playing outside on the asphalt! Present temperature is in the 80's, sunny (baking the asphalt) and humid. This is what I've been waiting for ???
roll


The great thing about music is that there's always something to learn. The frustrating thing about music is that there's always something to learn!
Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3046601 05/30/20 05:57 PM
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Once again, it's great to be semi-retired and not have to worry about all this, many of my friends aren't so fortunate. Quite a few are in desperate survival mode. I wish I were super wealthy to help them all out. I don't see a lot of that work ever coming back to sustain a Pro.

But I certainly paid my dues hustling for, and taking every sh*t gig that came along from '79 till just about a year ago. It was just coincidentally that I chose a good time to get out. wink

I get my real music fix for 2-3 hours everyday by just walking 75' out to the studio, taking the cover off and opening up my piano.

60 to 90 minutes on transposing lines or voicings to all keys, 60 minutes on Chopin or Debussy Etudes and 30 minutes blowing on tunes - I'm solid. Ready for anything with anybody. Have to stay on it though, it's definitely a use it or lose it type thing.

Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3046602 05/30/20 05:57 PM
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Like I posted in one of those threads that got nuked because we were being too spicy with each other . . . the situation going forward is that everyone is making judgments based on their unique circumstances. Playing an indoor gig in an area where infection rates (not just total numbers, but %'s) are rising would be unwise for anyone. Milwaukee sports bar? I wouldn't touch that. Playing outdoors in a non-urban part of Florida, where rates remain very low, is probably super low risk -- so low I'd me more worried about eating bad seafood at the gig. It's the situations in the middle that would be a tough call. Individual health circumstances, yours or your loved ones, might make it easier to say "no," probably not easier to say "yes."


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Re: Bookings are coming in!
area51recording #3046605 05/30/20 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by area51recording
Interesting dichotomy.....one camp is all like, "Virus? What virus! If you're afraid of that silly little thing stay away....we're gonna party!" The other (the one I'm a member of) doesn't see the numbers plummeting like the first group seems to. Everything I read says that on the scale of what's safe and what's not, bars and restaurants (indoor) are way, WAY high in the risk department....I turned down one of my monthly gigs for July, it would have been indoor in a place that is air conditioning averse to start with. The other two guys in the band are going to go ahead and do it with a sub, and I'll revisit it in August. I figure by then things will either calm down, remain static, or it will be armageddon out there, and the decision will be made for me. My biggest thought is, even if I'M ok with the risk, I sure as hell don't want to bring it home to my wife. Needless to say, if I did that and she didn't make it I don't know how I'd ever live with myself.....

I consider myself in the camp that takes this virus very seriously, but is willing to engage in outdoor activities if the risks appear to be minimal or practically non-existent. I probably wouldn't do your indoor gig either.

Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3046610 05/30/20 06:15 PM
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We start back up June 13. and we're off and running.

Night taking anything lightly, and indoor venues are taking steps. No one in my band is cavalier about it, but everyone is 100% on board to get out and play.


David
Gig Rig: Roland A-88MK2 | Arturia Keylab 61 | Mac Mini | Mainstage

Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3046624 05/30/20 07:42 PM
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I took outdoor gigs for July and August, and passed on indoor gigs. The places I’m playing have enough space so that I can be more than 6’ from my bandmates and the public (while playing). I’ll wear a face mask. Long Island cases and deaths are on the decline. Seems pretty safe to me. Of course, there’s still a chance the gigs will be cancelled. We’ll see...

Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3046625 05/30/20 07:51 PM
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I've done indoor studio sessions with a mask on but haven't heard anything from anyone about any gigs yet (other than livestreams).


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Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3046628 05/30/20 08:07 PM
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My next shows are in July but don’t know if they will get cancelled. Then I have one booked in Oct - nothing else yet. The dives that are the staple of my mid-month shows are still not allowed to book bands here in SoCal. Statistics in San Diego are incredibly low - and are mostly concentrated down in South Bay close to the border.

I’m ready to risk it and go. one of my bands is raring, the other we couldn’t even get the drummer to do a jam rehearsal in a large garage with just the band. Everyone sees and feels it differently.


The baiting I do is purely for entertainment value. Please feel free to ignore it.
Re: Bookings are coming in!
ElmerJFudd #3046652 05/30/20 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by ElmerJFudd
Originally Posted by cphollis
Everyone has their own risk/reward calculation. I get my inputs from a variety of sources as there's a bunch of well-meaning but utterly misguided information out there. Florida has been very good with data transparency, not only what the numbers are but what's included or excluded. As a result, you can make well-informed decisions.

Community spread cases in this particular FL county are now statistically rare. Cases of outdoor transmission of CoVID-19 anywhere are even more statistically rare.

Take two very small numbers, multiply them together and you'll get a much smaller number. Of course, everyone's situation is different.

What do you believe the situation in FL is closer to the populated areas? Miami, Tampa, etc. How about in and around the villages where most everyone living there is in a high risk age and health group?

Southern Florida (Miami, et. al) is still a hot spot and has restrictions. We know because they drive up to spend the weekend where we are frown. I would assume Tampa is in the same situation.

Your question about The Villages (and other senior-oriented facilities) is spot on. Our governor mandated special protections for senior facilities (no visitors, don't send positive patients back, test everyone who enters, use the Guard, drop PPE on them, etc.) and it looks like he made the right call, FWIW.

Here is our local data site.. The fun part is if you dig down and filter through all the crap, there are real numbers there, like how many new hospital admissions, ventilator capacity, source of infection, symptoms presented, age distribution, etc. I don't need the media to tell me what to think, thankfully.

One example? In our county, we're getting 0-5 new positives per day, but no new hospitalizations, etc. Going further, on the barrier island where we live, there have been no new infections in over a month and zero deaths, despite having many out-of-town visitors and lotsa really old people.

The crowds we play to are definitely retirees, and we expect them back in force for the outdoor shows we have lined up.

Everyone has to make their own decision.


Life is too short to be playing bad music.

Keys: NP4, NS3C
Home: Bosie 200, Yam AG N3
Amps: FA 12ac, RCF TT08a, QSC K.2, EVOX J8, SSv3, Westone IEMs
Stuff: Stay stands, Key Largo, Vent II, X-Air 18
Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3046658 05/31/20 12:27 AM
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Don’t you cats keep up with the news? They just discovered that this virus is essentially airborne. It has the ability to stick to dust particles floating in the air and be viable for up to 20 minutes. That 6’ social distancing guideline is now bogus. I would not play an indoor or outdoor venue even if you paid me...


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Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3046686 05/31/20 03:53 AM
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I live in Orlando and no longer trust any of the numbers coming from our state government. They are actively trying to fudge them and have been caught at it several times. Florida's numbers may indeed be low--likely they are, nobody I know has tested positive or anyone THEY know--but I take anything from the gov with a grain of salt.

That said, once death certs get turned in I'd trust those but they can take a while. My brother's hospital (he works in ICU) has no patients so that is a good sign...for now.

My live playing is done for the year I'm fairly sure barring some real change in things. I won't be out at restaurants, bars, movie theaters, period; stores I'll get curbside and MIGHT go in if they require masks. Otherwise stores are out. I'm cancelling my family gym plan. I might do an outdoor gig--but outdoor gigs are awful in FLA (IMO) in the summer...boiling hot, daily thunderstorms that usually come when we are trying to play or set up (no roof helps, and there's lightning).

Outdoor is much, much safer than indoors it appears. Saw a real good video from Vox going through some of the reasons. Limiting amount looks to be really important--a small amount of virus from a passing jogger is very low risk, while sitting across from someone sick in a restaurant for an hour is much higher.

Japan, the oldest population on earth, has less than 1000 deaths. They haven't shut anything down. They wear masks, and don't talk (or sing, or shout) around other people.

Last edited by Stokely; 05/31/20 03:58 AM.
Re: Bookings are coming in!
HammondDave #3046701 05/31/20 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by HammondDave
Don’t you cats keep up with the news?

There's your problem.

Maybe you missed the part where the MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS (not news reporters) have said that it doesn't transmit as easily outdoors, especially in warm climates and when exposed to UV light from the sun. If your news source is saying otherwise then you may want to consider seeking news elsewhere.


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Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3046719 05/31/20 02:04 PM
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My big problem with outdoor gigs this summer (other than the normal Florida issues I mentioned!) are the bathrooms. As I said though studies are showing that the length of time plus proximity plus air conditions all add up to risks being high or low. Obviously data is still being formed.

If I do a July 15th gig at a place that is really safe for the musicians (the ones in the back at least, me!) I'll be wearing my mask while playing, if I can sing with it ok, if not I won't sing. I'll try to find a cool-looking rock'n'roll mask grin I'll be peeing in the car most likely--well, in a container in the car. The bathrooms in that place require walking a tight maze of tables and it's a tiny bathroom where you literally touch anyone else in there to get to a urinal. Fuck no.

The Vox vid showed how even light outdoor breezes will disperse the droplets and you don't get the concentration. Indoors is a different story. Air movement is actually a good thing as long as it isn't an AC blowing across in one static direction (this is how they think many people in a Wuhan restaurant got sick from one person, up to 14 feet away.) In that restaurant they were sitting there in one spot just breathing in the droplets over a long period of time. It doesn't seem to be a case where a tiny amount of virus is guaranteed to get you, rather your body may actually fight it off and form antibodies if that happens.

This is why I find Japan so interesting. Their subways have been running the whole time. Their schools have not shut down. EVERYONE wears masks according to a friend or two I have there. Nobody talks (this is partly a cultural thing of politeness, but also that right now it's risky to do so.) They have a sense of society, and frankly don't want to be "shamed" for being different (which is a mixed bag obviously...in this case, it's working out for them in this first wave.)

Edit: just got word that an indoor June 20 gig is "back on" for the band. It's one of the better joints we play at...this could be my ouster from the band as no way I'm going to play ANY indoor gig. So be it. They can play without me, but normally I would never be unprofessional and skip out on a gig where it was booked as a 5-piece. But this is a different situation. I've had to stop my kids from doing all the activities that they like with their friends, my wife is at-risk...so me going out and playing rock star is out. On the positive side, more money for people that need it like our drummer and guitarist.

Last edited by Stokely; 05/31/20 02:22 PM.
Re: Bookings are coming in!
HammondDave #3046722 05/31/20 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by HammondDave
Don’t you cats keep up with the news? They just discovered that this virus is essentially airborne. It has the ability to stick to dust particles floating in the air and be viable for up to 20 minutes. That 6’ social distancing guideline is now bogus. I would not play an indoor or outdoor venue even if you paid me...

I think many of us listen/should listen to medical science and should be aware of the community spread dangers of Covid 19.

And the associated risk and health factors.

Social distancing is a forgotten practice here in Contra costa county. This is obvious at grocery stores, and where ever people gather.

Even in my neighborhood, [ an 800 home sub division ] there was a certain percentage of families, that ignore Covid 19.

They don't wear masks, they have public block parties every week end, act like its 2019.

IOW, they don't giveas%$.

My wife and I , and other neighbors see this and all we can do is keep our distance.

In our populous county, we have 1,426 reported cases, and 20 new cases in the past 24 hours.

An average 1.4% infection/growth rate per day.

Facts can be inconvenient to some. I have seen enough pandemic misery and suffering locally,

We have a long ways to go, IMO. Covid 19 is mutating if you watch the news.

Last edited by GregC; 05/31/20 10:11 PM.
Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3046747 05/31/20 06:21 PM
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My question to all of you who are returning to live gigs, has the venue insisted that you get tested? If not, that is a pretty clear message that they don't give a crap about the safety of their employees, or their customers.

Last edited by HammondDave; 05/31/20 06:22 PM.

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Re: Bookings are coming in!
J. Dan #3046749 05/31/20 06:28 PM
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J. Dan... No, it sounds like it may be YOUR problem. Unless you think that scientists and medical professionals from the National Institutes of Health, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, UCLA and Princeton University don't know what they are talking about. Apparently it spreads very well outside in windy conditions... especially where people are talking loudly... hmmm.

You may wish to read THIS

and THIS

and THIS

Last edited by HammondDave; 05/31/20 07:06 PM.

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Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3046768 05/31/20 08:21 PM
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That settles it, then. Areas with beaches and parks and hiking trails and people enjoying their escape from confinement- FL, CA, GA, the Smokies- are going to see massive spikes in cases, while areas where the faithful shelter indoors will see the virus slowly die out. If this turns out not to be the case, it may be because virus droplets spread outside on the wind are dispersed to the point where they don't carry near the viral load of respiratory droplets expelled by people indoors. The subheading below the title of article #2 seems to allow for that.

I'll ponder this further while on the track this afternoon. I'm not going to risk stroke and coronary disease because I'm terrified to leave the house and get activity- I've heard those 2 things kill a lot of people my age.

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Re: Bookings are coming in!
HammondDave #3046793 05/31/20 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by HammondDave
J. Dan... No, it sounds like it may be YOUR problem. Unless you think that scientists and medical professionals from the National Institutes of Health, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, UCLA and Princeton University don't know what they are talking about. Apparently it spreads very well outside in windy conditions... especially where people are talking loudly... hmmm.

You may wish to read THIS

and THIS

and THIS

Yep, I've seen these and similar. My favorite pandemic p0rn was the CDC discovery that "CoVID-19" can be detected on surfaces after 20 hours. Well, maybe it wasn't viable, but IT COULD BE DETECTED!!! Not to diss on the CDC, they came clean with a data dump that basically says if you're not really old and/or not living in assisted living, yeah this has the same fatality rate as -- well -- a nasty flu season. So let's protect the really old folks.

Look, any medical professional will tell you -- dosages matter. Three random particles wafting through the air are about as dangerous as -- well, nothing? The choir practice was insightful is it demonstrates what happens when people get a mega-dose over a prolonged period. I have read it was a small room with really poor ventilation, purely anecdotal. Sounds unpleasant.

Documented cases of outdoor spread are near-zero. That being said, if anyone feels unsafe, please stay home.

Last edited by cphollis; 05/31/20 11:10 PM. Reason: more thoughts?

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Re: Bookings are coming in!
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Just got back from an outdoor adventure with my 7 yo son: kite flying, hill climbing, running around a soccer field. Kids don't social distance, doesn't matter what you tell them. We got close to lots of people, couldn't avoid it. It's either that or stay home, which would probably cause serious psychological damage to all of us.

Point is, if I'm doing that, I might as well be playing outdoor gigs., Next one is in 5 days..


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Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3046806 06/01/20 02:04 AM
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I've had similar thoughts...that if my kids are out and about (right now they are not, but they will likely be back in school in a couple months) then I might as well do my thing. But then I consider that whatever risk I have from the kids, I'm just adding to it. For me that's what this is about, minimizing risk.

I get that about the damage, my kids are older and I still see an effect on them. For one thing they are spending more time on the computer than I'd like but at least they are being social with some gaming friends.

Band is ok with me taking an indefinite hiatus. This sucks for us because we settled finally in with a good lineup of chill drama-less people that all get along, then bam this hits.

Last edited by Stokely; 06/01/20 02:06 AM.
Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3046810 06/01/20 02:14 AM
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Originally Posted by cphollis
Documented cases of outdoor spread are near-zero.

Where did you get this data point from?


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Stokely #3046828 06/01/20 03:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Stokely
Band is ok with me taking an indefinite hiatus. This sucks for us because we settled finally in with a good lineup of chill drama-less people that all get along, then bam this hits.

I can sure relate to that. Our band was primed for a great summer with weddings, private parties, corporate gigs all rolling in. It's the best band I've ever been in- really great players, easy going personalities, no drama... basically a dream come true.

Then our drummer got restationed (USAF) and had to leave the band. Big loss as he brought a lot to the table, but we couldn't believe our luck when a friend of mine (who's also a full-time pro) was available & wanted to step in. Then BAM! Corona hit before the band even got to meet him, never mind play together. We did a zoom call & personalities seemed to gel together well, but everyone's basically trusting me on the music side of things. (I'm not worried- I think he'll be a great fit)

So now we're in limbo, with most gigs postponed or canceled altogether. Our singer thinks the virus is a hoax and can't wait to get back out there. Me? I'm not really interested in gigging until we have a lot more answers about what we're dealing with. I guess I would leave the band so as not to hold them back if it came to that, but that'd put the drummer (& the band) in an awkward situation. Plus I'm a founding member with a lot of responsibility (keyboards, guitar, backing vocals, run sound, organize rehearsals, etc.). Not that I can't be replaced- it'd just be a lot to dump on them. (I don't want to quit anyway! I love this band & can't wait to get to play together again with our new drummer, but good health is the most important thing.) We'll see what shakes out.

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MathOfInsects #3046864 06/01/20 11:57 AM
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MathOfInsects--a quick search of Google News yielded the following:

https://www.businessinsider.com/risk-of-coronavirus-transmission-lower-outdoors-evidence-2020-5
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/15/us/coronavirus-what-to-do-outside.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/29/health/coronavirus-transmission-dose.html
https://www.healthline.com/health-n...9-probably-not#Air-conditioning-concerns
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/30/health/running-exercising-masks-coronavirus.html

My conclusion? When people bunch up close together, risk of transmission increases. More likely to happen indoors, less likely to happen outdoors. There's a related thread in the reporting that claims the high number of asymptomatic people (~35% per CDC) might be a result of a large number of low viral dosages. AFAIK, playing outdoors on a hot, sunny day with plenty of UVB and a breeze would pose a negligible risk -- as compared to shopping for groceries.


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Re: Bookings are coming in!
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I think this is the Chinese study I read about:

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2020/05/15/chinese-study-finds-outdoor-activities-safe-from-covid/

Quote
In a study of 1,245 cases that occurred across China from January 4 to February 11, only two cases were traced to contact with an infected person out of doors. Both cases arose from a single outbreak.

The risk is not zero of course. More and more, studies are saying that amount matters, and that is a big reason the outdoors is so much safer, air currents go in all directions and disperse droplets quickly.

Honestly, if someone in my band thought this was a "hoax" I'd completely disregard their opinion. That is ludicrous. We can argue about how bad it might be in a particular area, and whether it is safe to resume activites, but a "hoax"? That's fake news propaganda conspiracy garbage and you'd have to be a moron to believe it. There's people that believe 5G cell phone towers spread it. People are idiots. If you said "this is a hoax" to someone who lost a friend or family member to this you'd rightly get your ass beat.

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A worldwide "hoax?" How can anyone believe that so many countries can participate in the same "hoax?" To me that's a ridiculous thought. I personally know people who think it's a "hoax" who seem to be intelligent/rational people otherwise. I'm perplexed.

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It's not a hoax, but there was a lot of misinformation and delays of providing information that caused some people to distrust official sources. I can't say I blame them. Add to that different states (and up here different provinces) enacting different guidelines where some of them appeared to have no basis in medicine or science and seemed to unfairly punish some businesses more than others. I won't bother with examples, there are dozens of them that make no sense and yet people were expected to blindly accept whgat they were told.

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Red Ranger... It sounds like your singer may be a moron.

Last edited by HammondDave; 06/01/20 01:32 PM.

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Re: Bookings are coming in!
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Originally Posted by Al Quinn
A worldwide "hoax?" How can anyone believe that so many countries can participate in the same "hoax?" To me that's a ridiculous thought. I personally know people who think it's a "hoax" who seem to be intelligent/rational people otherwise. I'm perplexed.

Agreed. I'm also perplexed by the flat earthers.


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Of course the earth is flat, otherwise the 5G / COVID transmission towers would fall over....


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Re: Bookings are coming in!
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My theory: most people calling it a hoax don't really believe that. Calling it a hoax (i.e., disbelieving pointy-headed experts) is easier on the conscience than saying it is primarily affecting people I don't care about.

But even among reasonable, fair-minded, intellectually honest people there is plenty of room for debate about risks. What worries me most re: gigging is the subject of the other current KC virus thread. It's the scenario where, despite the best intentions of the band and the venue, people don't follow the rules and recklessness ensues. I think that's less likely to happen outdoors in daylight, and certainly less likely in proportion to the average age of the audience (older=safer).

I've done a couple outdoor shows. The average age of the audience was probably 45. They wore masks and distanced from each other. It was sunny and warm. Probably less risky than shopping for groceries. In my world, this is the future of live performance for the foreseeable future.


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Originally Posted by cphollis
My conclusion?

Actually, I was asking about the declarative statement that "Documented cases of outdoor spread are near-zero." That sounded like you had data that stated this. If you do, can you link that data?


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There were several links above, I posted one myself.

I agree, the hoax thing is just simplistic good-vs-evil thinking. Some people don't understand (or care to understand) that science changes based on the facts. I personally have ignored political figures from the very start because they have a vested interest in not being transparent. Being transparent often means you aren't re-elected. It is true that the scientific evidence has switched around a few times--that's what happens with a novel disease (ie, new) in a pandemic of a scale nobody has seen for 100 years. In today's world you aren't allowed to change your mind about things, at best it means you are "wishy washy" and at worst you have some nefarious agenda and you started taking money from someone yada yada.

If there is an agenda we should be looking hard at--just look at how much money has been made and by whom since this pandemic started. There are certainly some who have made out VERY well indeed.

Anyone saying "hoax" is not just a moron, they are an asshole. They need to go visit some families of the 100,000+ Americans who have died from the hoax.

Science aside, we can easily look around the world and see what appears to be working....and what has not worked. Yet America is resolved to ignore all of it and go our own way, so be it.

Last edited by Stokely; 06/01/20 02:39 PM.
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Stokely #3046889 06/01/20 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Stokely
There were several links above, I posted one myself.

I saw, thanks. Those links were about the general idea that outside is safer than inside. There is no question about this. But that's because it's easier to stay distant outside, not because of any other inherent difference in the physics and biology involved. I was asking about the statement that "documented cases of outdoor spread are near-zero." That's a very specific statement and I was curious if it came from hard data or was someone's personal assumption or hope. After all, the prevailing assumption from the beginning was that this was initially acquired or spread at an outdoor market.

Your link does address this, sort of, but it focuses on the pre-pandemic stage back in January during which only 1,200 cases had arisen in China. Since indeed "science changes based on the facts," I would be more curious to see data gathered after we have come 6,000,000 cases in--that is, now--than after the first 1,000 to have appeared, back then. Do you know if any recent support exists for that "near-zero" claim? Even if that same percentage held constant, that would still be 10,000 cases now, which does not seem like "near-zero." But did it stay constant? China famously locked its population down almost immediately, so the idea that there was not much outdoor spread during that time period would not be surprising--but doesn't tell us anything about what might be true for us, now.

I am asking because a very quick google search would reveal entire clusters of infection that presumably resulted from outside gatherings. Pool parties, spring break gatherings, outdoor "protests." These all fall after the range of that China study, because the entire pandemic falls after that time period. So if someone has seen credible evidence that this was NOT the case, that would be notable, and I'd like to see the source. I really do take the effort to traffic in data rather than assumption or fear very seriously, and want to know the relevant data surrounding this claim, if it exists. It would certainly help triage which activities I am comfortable engaging in with my kids right now, for one thing...


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I probably oversimplified by saying she thinks it's a hoax. To clarify, she thinks it's totally overplayed by the media, that the death count is greatly exaggerated, businesses didn't need to be shut down, and so on. Not that I agree with any of that, but she's not an evil person- perhaps just an easy mark for misinformation & conspiracy theories. Normally all that stuff stays outside the door since we're a working band, not in it for socializing. We keep it professional & respectful, and everyone gets along fine.

The virus brings a different dynamic, as one person's approach affects everyone else.

The cool thing is I am certain she'll be respectful if we want to wait longer than she does to go out & play, but I might end up as the last holdout.

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Originally Posted by Adan
What worries me most re: gigging is the subject of the other current KC virus thread. It's the scenario where, despite the best intentions of the band and the venue, people don't follow the rules and recklessness ensues. I think that's less likely to happen outdoors in daylight, and certainly less likely in proportion to the average age of the audience (older=safer).

I've done a couple outdoor shows. The average age of the audience was probably 45. They wore masks and distanced from each other. It was sunny and warm. Probably less risky than shopping for groceries. In my world, this is the future of live performance for the foreseeable future.

I've been thinking about that scenario myself- something like a private party outdoors in a backyard. We could put terms in the contract requiring spacing and masks, etc. These are all easy things to scope out before setting up. But what if it goes sideways DURING the show when people start getting tipsy & stupid? You only need to catch the virus once.

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We all have family members, friends, band mates, etc. who have varying opinions on what's happening (largely due to their own experiences and how varied their sources of information are). I have a sibling who lives in a much more rural area than I do who is 100% in on it being overblown and no worse than other viruses that come through every year - "certainly no more people than we lose from cancer every year". Where I live, that isn't my experience, so we don't bother to discuss. I wear my mask when in contact with others and refrain from exposure for me and my immediate family because we're in a hot spot. Yes, I'd love to eat out and sit down with others, laugh in each other's faces, sing harmonies, let the kids play in reality rather than virtually. But we're not there yet. Mid June will come, and July and things will get better for all of us. When this crap went down in 1918 it had dramatic affect on everything (not to mention a second wave) that dragged it on for two years.


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Re: Bookings are coming in!
MathOfInsects #3046908 06/01/20 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by MathOfInsects
Originally Posted by Stokely
There were several links above, I posted one myself.

I saw, thanks. Those links were about the general idea that outside is safer than inside. There is no question about this. But that's because it's easier to stay distant outside, not because of any other inherent difference in the physics and biology involved. I was asking about the statement that "documented cases of outdoor spread are near-zero." That's a very specific statement and I was curious if it came from hard data or was someone's personal assumption or hope. After all, the prevailing assumption from the beginning was that this was initially acquired or spread at an outdoor market.

Your link does address this, sort of, but it focuses on the pre-pandemic stage back in January during which only 1,200 cases had arisen in China. Since indeed "science changes based on the facts," I would be more curious to see data gathered after we have come 6,000,000 cases in--that is, now--than after the first 1,000 to have appeared, back then. Do you know if any recent support exists for that "near-zero" claim? Even if that same percentage held constant, that would still be 10,000 cases now, which does not seem like "near-zero." But did it stay constant? China famously locked its population down almost immediately, so the idea that there was not much outdoor spread during that time period would not be surprising--but doesn't tell us anything about what might be true for us, now.

I am asking because a very quick google search would reveal entire clusters of infection that presumably resulted from outside gatherings. Pool parties, spring break gatherings, outdoor "protests." These all fall after the range of that China study, because the entire pandemic falls after that time period. So if someone has seen credible evidence that this was NOT the case, that would be notable, and I'd like to see the source. I really do take the effort to traffic in data rather than assumption or fear very seriously, and want to know the relevant data surrounding this claim, if it exists. It would certainly help triage which activities I am comfortable engaging in with my kids right now, for one thing...

I don't know, but would be equally interested to find out.

I do treat outdoor gatherings pretty much like indoor ones--I don't do them. I'd go to the beach as long as I could stay away from people (pretty easy here) and be upwind of everyone (also easy, usually get a breeze from the ocean to the land.) I'd let my kids go to the park and kick a ball around, maybe with their friends (with some hand-washing/sanitizer present).

I haven't seen much evidence of spread outdoors--but I also haven't seen studies saying it can't be spread, so with lack of uncertainty I'd err on the side of caution.

I'm looking more at Japan right now than China. They are following a course that at least would be possible here in the States (not likely, but possible). No way the Chinese approach would fly here. In both cases the population bought in to masks, but Japan is going about their business while China did quarantines, and mostly voluntarily despite what we may think of their government (my wife is from there and knows a lot of people still over there.)

Likewise for it spreading through touching a surface. Has there been a single documented case? Again though, even if not, that doesn't mean it isn't happening or couldn't happen, because we know viruses can spread that way.

As far as the singer and the hoax...let's just say that while there are people who believe the death total from covid is over-counted, there are those who believe it is being under-counted, and by a big margin. I'm one of them. Regardless it gets really hard to be that specific. Excess total deaths vs past years might be the most solid number we can use, though these lag by up to eight weeks.

Last edited by Stokely; 06/01/20 04:53 PM.
Re: Bookings are coming in!
Adan #3046910 06/01/20 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Adan
My theory: most people calling it a hoax don't really believe that. Calling it a hoax (i.e., disbelieving pointy-headed experts) is easier on the conscience than saying it is primarily affecting people I don't care about.

Unfortunately, very very true.


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Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3046928 06/01/20 07:12 PM
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We did our first live-streaming show last Friday. Big stage, large venue, easy to social distance. The only people in attendance were the band (n = 6), sound/lights/video production staff (n = 4), and venue staff (n = 2). I wore a mask until down beat. Show was fun and a success.

We were scheduled to play a recently-booked gig tomorrow night in an airplane hanger at a local regional airport (social distancing theoretically possible), but just found out this morning it has been cancelled. My immediate thought was that folks reconsidered because of COVID but our band leader advised it was due to the riots taking place around here. World gone wild.


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Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3046934 06/01/20 07:28 PM
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There are calls to bring out the national guard to "dominate" the streets, and of course the riots themselves bring out opportunists...if I had a gig anywhere near a spot like that I'd avoid it..well, like the plague (sorry)...

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cphollis #3046937 06/01/20 07:41 PM
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I haven't tuned in to watch even 1 streamed concert or gig. It seems the same as putting on a youtube video which I only do if it's like Nazareth at rockplast in 1980 or something I would have went to see when I was 17.

It's like the difference between a Grateful Dead concert or video of the same gig. Ask a real deadhead if you dont get it. One is electrifying energy, the other is just some good tunes.

Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3047323 06/03/20 11:54 PM
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Thought I'd give you all an update on our upcoming first gig in the sequence. I see it as a preview of things to come ...

This is an outdoor venue, run by the town. Free entertainment outdoors on the weekend for retirees. There's a burger grill and partial bar service, it's a nice venue at the local park. Pays relatively well, so a coveted gig in town.

Now, they've constructed a barrier surrounding the space. You have to get a (free) ticket for each of the limited number of tables. Masks are required to enter, but may be removed once seated. They now have servers that come to your table vs. queueing. Dancing is discouraged, but not prohibited (?).

They tried this last weekend and were generally successful enforcing distancing within the perimeter. The crowd was said to be enthusiastic, which is good.

However, immediately outside the perimeter there was a vastly larger crowd, with lawn chairs, coolers and doing whatever they damn well pleased, all bunched up against the perimeter. They were hooting and hollering. Good for them.

We're expecting the same deal when we play.


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Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3047428 06/04/20 05:47 PM
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We've been EXTREMELY fortunate here in SW Indiana. We've only had two deaths in the county I live in that contains the city of Evansville. Things appear to be opening up in a couple of weeks like nothing happened, but in my mind, I'm not seeing ANYONE with the letters "MD" appended to their names that is acting like it's all cool....I know that social distancing, if they even make a half hearted attempt, is going to evaporate after 1 of 2 drinks, and that really concerns me. The main gig I do is in a restaurant connected to the local casino, a piano bar gig. I know the casino will probably reopen later this month, and when they're ready for me I'll get the "Happy-happy-Joy-joy" email from the booking agent, you know, "We're BACK!!!!!".....I think when I do I'm going to ask her if SHE'LL be sitting at the bar when I walk in that first night....I'm guessing not a chance in Hell......

Re: Bookings are coming in!
mate stubb #3047435 06/04/20 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by mate stubb
I resigned from my gigging band this morning. The bass player, a retired doctor, had quit a couple days ago because he didn't want to be "that guy" that held the band back. I think he knows the risks better than any of the rest of us. Band leader is gung ho and ready to play anywhere, anytime. I'm not up for being in a state of paranoia every time a gig is booked, and am fortunate that I don't need the income.

Feels like a turning point - I'm not sure if or when I will ever get back to playing live.


Took the words out of my mouth. Same situation here. I'm out.

aL


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Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3047438 06/04/20 07:04 PM
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I'm lucky so far. My band has said, "take your time, welcome back whenever you are up to it." Which may be a long time. As I've mentioned there is a silver lining and that is more money to two members that desperately need it.

I'm pretty optimistic that--if I so desire--I'll be gigging again in no more than a year or two. I feel treatments are coming along and there's so many vaccine efforts that there is a good chance at least a few will pan out.
Getting the worst of the symptoms lessened would be a huge thing. I just read a synopsis of a study saying that this is a blood vessel disease (as is Ebola) as much as a respiratory one. Most of the article was WAY over my head smile The main point to draw was that this could certainly explain a lot of the "weirder" symptoms of this including the immune disease in children; and knowing this, the efforts toward treatments and vaccines can shift accordingly. In short, we are learning more about this all the time and that is a good thing.

Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3047450 06/04/20 07:34 PM
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I was in a project that was clearly going nowhere and had been going nowhere for a long time. But they are nice people and are very nice to me. I honestly told them what my cardiologist told me. I am high risk and need to avoid high risk situations including band activity. It took me off of the hook I wanted off of .
When my town opens up again I think there will be alot of opportunity for players who know the local bars. Alot of new bands will form from pieces of past bands. Many old bands will need a new member. Booking schedules that have been locked in will be unlocked. The post C19 world might be ok.

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cphollis #3047454 06/04/20 07:48 PM
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A band I'm in just got offered a 3-day road gig about two weeks from now. It's in a state that's basically wide open with no restrictions, though the particular venue seems to be taking adequate-ish precautions. Still, we turned it down due to a combination of 1) the fact that it's a bar, and alcohol doesn't do wonders for human judgment; 2) considerations for the other 20 hours of the day when we'd have to do things like find food and generally live our lives; and 3) the overall culture of the area in terms of what I will delicately describe as people's behavior regarding concern for others versus their own personal freedoms. It was a tough call, because we're dying to play together again, and this is a gig we've always enjoyed in the past. But we all agreed that overall the risks are still higher than we're okay with.

Re: Bookings are coming in!
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I've posted about the band I have been playing with since last year elsewhere, but they started jamming together again at the beginning of May, and they now have a gig booked for early August. I just don't see it. 5+ hours in a room every week with three other guys and I'm sure they're not wearing masks if that matters in such a long exposure tight quarters situation. Then to play a local club in August doesn't seem smart to me right now either.

I think I'm going to tell them they can be like SRV and Double Trouble, and I will be like Reese Wynans and join up with them later. roll


The great thing about music is that there's always something to learn. The frustrating thing about music is that there's always something to learn!
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Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3047517 06/05/20 01:48 AM
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I mentioned this in the live chat at the weekend - things are starting to open up very slowly from a gigging perspective in the state where I live (South Australia). Venues can now have a maximum of 80 people in a room provided a social distance of 4 square metres per person maintained. No approaching the bar - table service only.

At this stage it's still not economically viable for most venues where I live to book bands under these circumstances. Many pubs are still yet to open up, some may never recover from the economic hit they took.

In addition, our state has closed all borders to all but essential travel, which means no touring.

I'm thinking my party band and the new tribute I've joined will probably be able to start gigging again towards the end of the year if a gradual easing of restrictions continues. Suspect my established tribute act is now wiped until 2021. If we can't be allowed to leave the state and if we can't get 300+ people in a room, our business model doesn't work. Not a complaint, just a statement of things as they currently stand.

South Australia (pop. circa 1.7mil) has only recorded two new COVID-19 cases since April 24. Of a total of 440 cases recorded since the virus started 435 have made a full recovery and we've had 4 deaths, leaving one case currently active (not in ICU). My totally non-expert conclusion is that our relatively safe journey thus far has been in part due to the very tight restrictions put in place by our State Government, so I'm happy to roll with the economic punches.

Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3047582 06/05/20 12:33 PM
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All of my Floyd tribute gigs are cancelled. A couple got rescheduled for late summer/early fall. My other main project, we've worked with the venues and have pretty much cancelled everything. We do have 2 outdoor shows in mid/late July that we are going to do. One is a concert in a park where it's easy to keep distance, and the other is a winery with the same setup. No indoor gigs. The one question mark is July 4 at a waterfront venue we play, the stage is outdoors but it gets crowded and you need to navigate shoulder to shoulder crowds to get to the rest rooms- we'll probably cancel that, if the venue doesn't for us.

A couple other side bands I'm in have been approached about some other outdoor shows, I said I didn't want to do anything til August so we'll see how that plays out.


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Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3047588 06/05/20 01:39 PM
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Of my two bands, one of them disbanded, because the leader decided to work exclusively with his girlfriend on her original music, to the point that he built a stage in his living room.

The other has been rehearsing for about a month, without me, remembering how to play, and working up some new material. Next weekend, I will be finally up to rehearsing with them. They've been aware of the medical challenges I've been going through.

We have our first gig back on July 3. Venue is an indoor/outdoor hybrid. Outdoors, with waterproof panels over the area to keep rain and sun out.

Looking forward to playing again, but considering I just had heart surgery last week, I'm being very careful.


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So God helped him and created woman.

Now everybody's got the blues."

Willie Dixon




Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3047595 06/05/20 02:28 PM
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Starting to see numbers going up--which would be expected considering the big changes due to re-opening--it's just a question of how much are they going up? Are they only going up because more people are being tested?

So hard to make decisions because there is no organized approach to data. People can go get tested, but how the community is doing overall is anyone's guess. If we have way less tests, that's way less cases! Deaths lag by a lot but those appear to be lessening, perhaps in part because of changes in treatment. My own state, and others, have their own criteria for what is covid cases and deaths and there have been several attempts to "cook the books" to some degree. That lessens confidence in me and people I know. I maintain that if we *knew* where things stood we could actually get things going. As it is, half of us are "wheee let's go" and the other half is mostly sheltering in place. I want to be in the "whee" group but not with this much uncertainty.

China just tested the entire city of Wuhan--10 million people in 19 days. They probably have a very good idea of what kind of problem they have, if any. 300 positive cases from those 10 million, all of them asymptomatic. Can those people spread the thing? Is there only a few-day period where it can spread from you if you are positive? Still unverified.

I've decided, since gigs aren't likely to be coming soon, to upgrade my acoustic guitar smile I had a cheap laminate Yamaha that isn't all that playable (high action). I found a dealer for a brand new *all solid wood* Eastman for around 450 with a nice gig bag...that is pretty wild, a lot of folks really like Eastmans and compare them to much more expensive guitars. I'm looking at the E1D model, spruce top.

Last edited by Stokely; 06/05/20 02:32 PM.
Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3047596 06/05/20 02:35 PM
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Two shows I thought were going to happen one this week and one next week have been cancelled! i have been looking forward to playing but I guess it is not meant to be!


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Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3047615 06/05/20 05:05 PM
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Tonight and tomorrow night make eleven cancelled gigs for me. I’m really missing playing out.

One of my bands is looking to resume rehearsals next week. I recommended they start without me and I’ll join them when I am ready. They are all 10-15 years younger than me, and were understanding and fine with it.
The other band is mostly older group and isn’t even looking to restart rehearsals until late July, assuming everyone is healthy and willing at that time. I am quite grateful for that perspective.

This was shaping up to be a busier year for me than ever before... but frankly now I’m not certain if or when I will feel comfortable playing indoors - or even outside - again.

Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3047617 06/05/20 05:11 PM
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I just need a bathroom option for most of my outdoor gigs. There's a few outdoor ones that have other issues but most of mine are safe (for the band, not the patrons). Don't say catheter, I still have nightmares.

Guess the ol "container in the car, aim carefully" would be the simplest and best option.

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cphollis #3047624 06/05/20 05:44 PM
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Just got word of a September wedding cancellation here, and those private gigs were the only ones I imagined might be able to be pulled off with any modicum of safety. I am taking it as a sign that "real" gigs cannot occur yet, and the small ones are only happening out of disregard for the health of all involved. Perhaps it's a calculated risk and nothing bad will occur, but that feels like the triumph of optimism over reason.


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cphollis #3047626 06/05/20 05:46 PM
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We have no gigs at any of the usual places but our drummer is having a small backyard party next month (15 or 20 people) and the band will play a couple sets on the deck.

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cphollis #3047627 06/05/20 05:52 PM
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Gonna be doing a week-long gig next week in a studio. It's an annual competition which usually includes a week of rehearsals with three candidates culminating in a soft-seater show. This year, they'll be going all virtual, with some prerecorded interviews and some live-streamed performances from the studio. I haven't reviewed all the protocol myself, but from what I understand, there'll be a maximum amount of people, stations in the live room, plenty of PPE, etc. I'll be wearing my mask.

In the silver linings category, this will allow them to fast-track some goals that the organizers had in terms of getting all the candidates some studio time and a single, whether they win and move on to the Western Canadian version or not, while also widening their viewership online.

Still nowhere near gigging live.


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The last holdout on my schedule announced that they won't be able to have their event at the end of July. They *may* be able to have it in October, but I'll be at college in the other side of the state by then, so either way I won't be playing. It's too bad...after moving, it took a while to get into the music scene here. Now that things were starting to pick up finally, this crap hit. All cancelled now...all the way out into the end of September. I didn't have ONE gig this year.


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Stokely #3047630 06/05/20 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Stokely
I just need a bathroom option for most of my outdoor gigs. There's a few outdoor ones that have other issues but most of mine are safe (for the band, not the patrons). Don't say catheter, I still have nightmares.

Guess the ol "container in the car, aim carefully" would be the simplest and best option.
Other options might include discrete trees, large bushes, fences, alleys, dumpsters...it depends.

Sorry, took the low-hanging fruit...


"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing."
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cphollis #3047632 06/05/20 06:17 PM
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Uhh...gatoraid bottles have a wide opening. Also useful on long drives. As for the ahh , doodie, I have no solution. Time your gig.

Re: Bookings are coming in!
Jr. Deluxe #3047638 06/05/20 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Jr. Deluxe
Uhh...gatoraid bottles have a wide opening. Also useful on long drives. As for the ahh , doodie, I have no solution. Time your gig.

Well that's got #1 covered and I'd have to take my chances otherwise smile Not to get too graphic but I'm a "morning person" so just have to avoid any dodgy food on gig day!

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Stokely #3047649 06/05/20 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Stokely
I just need a bathroom option for most of my outdoor gigs. There's a few outdoor ones that have other issues but most of mine are safe (for the band, not the patrons). Don't say catheter, I still have nightmares. Guess the ol "container in the car, aim carefully" would be the simplest and best option.
These guys have some expertise in this area. NSFW unless you're in Canada, where we all talk like this guinness


"That's another thing that bugs me, the naysayers who say the music sucked. Come on, you ever been to a gig? The only time it's perfect is when it's on hard drive."
--Lefsetz on Woodstock
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All gigs spring and summer were canceled at least into July. Both bands I play with are looking at the outdoor venue options to see if we can add some dates in July-September or further into the fall. I'm sensing that indoor gigs are further in the distance. We've set one ground rule that we don't want to play a gig where the band is wearing masks, performing to an audience also wearing masks. That could prove to be limiting in the near term, but so be it. More power to you guys with things seeming to get a little more normal with crowds and stuff.

Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3049059 06/15/20 11:46 PM
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OP here. Well, we played our first gig in many months, and -- well -- it rocked! I had a blast, as did the rest of the band. And, all things considered, relatively safe.

We live in a small, relatively well-to-do town on the east coast of Florida. It's a resort destination. The town puts on free concerts on Fridays and Saturdays. Good food and booze is on offer. It's considered one of the better-paying gigs in town.

They cordoned off the main seating area, and required that you reserve (free) tickets through a website. Your group was assigned a table, all very socially distanced. Wear a mask when you're not seated, otherwise be asked to leave. Servers in masks would take your order, and deliver to the table. Every table seat was full, so maybe 150 people?

Beyond the cordon was where the real party was. There was grass, parking lots, etc. and maybe 300 people brought beach chairs and coolers for the night. They were the most enthusiastic, hooting and hollering, as we brought a sound system that they could hear. Plus, lots of band call-outs to the parking lot partiers. There was a barrier set up between the stage and the dance floor, at least ten feet. We had a few dancers, not many.

Never did I feel was I over-exposed. Heck, it was 88 degrees with a light breeze. Sweat city. Bathrooms (and a full bar) was in the adjacent theater building. Put on a mask, take care of business. I probably drank a full gallon of water that night.

The band played exceptionally well. We've been rehearsing 2x per week for quite a while with the AC off. Our female vocalist probably had the best night of her life. She killed it.

Our sequencing was off, as we tend to save our best material for the third set. Well, third set is bedtime for many here. Should've been second set, live and learn. All on video, all recorded multi-track. A bit of work to produce this content, but it's going to be worth it. The energy was crackling.

We are in contact with our regular venues, all are planning a full calendar of produced outside shows for the duration. They're building stages and cordons, and hiring extra staff to manage. Some of them are even hiring sound and light contractors!

All of this is very promising to me smile. If you're a decent live band who can pull off an outdoors show in this area, you're going to be in-demand.

All good!


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Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3049063 06/16/20 12:19 AM
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Congrats on a great gig!

My wife and I ate outdoors at a restaurant the other day and it was comfortable (we felt safe). My first gig is 7/11 at a similar outdoor restaurant/bar with a pretty spacious stage. I’m feeling good about doing it. Hospitalizations and deaths are way down on Long Island but we still need to wear masks to keep it that way.

Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3049066 06/16/20 01:07 AM
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Man, I'm envious cphollis...I'm in orlando and while most of our gigs have gone away, we still have some good ones left. I just can't do them. Not with cases rising and the at-risk people I live with, and the kids' lives Ive had to completely throttle this summer. It sucks. Right when our band got our best line-up. We are down to a trio since the lead singer is hesitant as well. I'm not sure the band will make it, it might be a year or more before i get back out there at our current rate. Just waiting and seeing and trying to stay busy at home. I cancelled my plans for upgrading my rig, sorry Nord...

I've been curbside at a couple stores and mask-wearing looks to be 20% at best just watching people go in and out while I cower in my car. Less mask than I saw a few weeks ago. Good luck, America.

Last edited by Stokely; 06/16/20 01:09 AM.
Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3049075 06/16/20 02:47 AM
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I feel for you guys in the US as you've copped it bad and now with the unrest youre never going to be sure do I or dont I?

Im going back to band practise tomorrow night. A bit apprehensive due to my own existing health issues. The drummer and guitarists have had 2 bashes but the bass player was isolating ouf in the bush but has come back. I said when he comes back i will. I was hoping hed stay away another 2 weeks to see if there is a second round of the virus.

To be honest i dont feel in a hurry to practise as i cant see any gigs on the horizon especially as we only just got in with an agent (who had taken over some of our direct gigs) before this happened). Fortunately we did well for him and he gave us gigs we didnt previously have but was probably giving us his fill in gigs to get to know us.

Theres not been any word of gigs out our way so who knows when and if. (We are on a peninsula and we dont want to play in the city where maybe theyll start up sooner??
Basically no word of gigs where i am. But im happy to wait.

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AUSSIEKEYS #3049079 06/16/20 03:57 AM
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Where are you AUSSIEKEYS? If you don't mind me asking.

Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3049081 06/16/20 04:22 AM
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Mornington Peninsula Victoria (last 5 years) ex of Sydney

For those non Aussies this is one of 2 of Melbournes summer holiday areas.

It has literally 1 month of summer craziness then a few little weekends here and there of more craziness then is left lonely to the locals either side.

But it does have 4 seasons in one day which I love.

Compared to Sydney where i was from which is summer for 3 months if not more and mild weather a few months either side.

Its middle of WINTER now and a coldish part of Australia so gigs are not plentiful this time of year anyway. So different season to US which is coming into summer.

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Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3049091 06/16/20 10:47 AM
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All our bands gigs up to 1st Aug were canx and we're waiting to hear about 7th and 15th Aug. During this lockdown we have been booked for a NYE gig and just locked in our 1st gig for 2021 in Jan.

Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3049094 06/16/20 11:53 AM
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I can't say the unrest has much to do with it (at least in my area). It might help spread things more, you'd think that would be the case (balanced of course against whether you think it's worth it). But beyond that people aren't really paying attention to the pandemic any more, or at least it really seems like it. There was a party on my street the other day at a house, cars were parked in the street like it was super bowl day. Most people in stores aren't wearing masks. Restaurants and bars seem to be picking up almost to where they were. The people without masks is the main reason I'm not back out gigging, or getting out and spending more at places right now. Their right to act that way, mine to react accordingly I guess.

Re: Bookings are coming in!
Stokely #3049095 06/16/20 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Stokely
Man, I'm envious cphollis...I'm in orlando and while most of our gigs have gone away, we still have some good ones left. I just can't do them. Not with cases rising and the at-risk people I live with, and the kids' lives Ive had to completely throttle this summer. It sucks. Right when our band got our best line-up. We are down to a trio since the lead singer is hesitant as well. I'm not sure the band will make it, it might be a year or more before i get back out there at our current rate. Just waiting and seeing and trying to stay busy at home. I cancelled my plans for upgrading my rig, sorry Nord...

I've been curbside at a couple stores and mask-wearing looks to be 20% at best just watching people go in and out while I cower in my car. Less mask than I saw a few weeks ago. Good luck, America.

I am familiar with the ' live and let live ' attitude.

However, due to the pandemic, and stressed health facilities,
its gambling with your health to not wear a mask in a store, gig [ surrounded by people], whatever confined area.

And wearing a mask is as simple as wearing your seat belt in your car while driving.

We have a few nearby counties [ valley] here in CA that did not mandate face coverings, did little prevention, and went ahead into business re-opening , whatever 'normal retail life style '.

These counties were not as densely populated and got an initial pause from Covid, and the hospitalization reporting was not as robust as SF and San Jose, etc.

There are similarities with our less populated valley towns and Indian River county and Vero Beach [ population 17,000].

As a result, the Covid 19 hospitalizations have spiked the past 2-3 weeks in our valley counties.

Don't feel you are on an island of non concern about community spread in tourist driven Florida.

Think long term, not about 2019. Wear your mask and take health related steps.

There is no vaccine. We are on our own and need to use our brains. This is not 2019.

Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3049097 06/16/20 12:57 PM
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I just had 4 shows gone within a weeks time. This fuckin blows and we are about to be in phase 4 of NYS opening but the social distance rules will still kill music.


"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"


noblevibes.com

Re: Bookings are coming in!
Outkaster #3049103 06/16/20 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Outkaster
I just had 4 shows gone within a weeks time. This fuckin blows and we are about to be in phase 4 of NYS opening but the social distance rules will still kill music.


I think we have to ' adapt ' to circumstances.

During other pandemics and WW's, much of the population adapted to the difficult circumstances.

Our grand parents understood this, and practiced the virtue of self sacrifice. This sense of community
{ shared self sacrifice, we are all in this mess together] helped navigate the country and states thru
the very difficult times.

Its hard to adapt and think long term, and fully understand consequences. Our grand parents did
and so should we.

I predict circumstances will be much improved 1 year from now, as vaccinations will finally be produced
in massive quantity for our large population. When I assert this with family, friend, they can't see ahead
1 year.

ts unrealistic to expect current circumstances to resolve itself in 1 week or 1 month of even a few months.

Last edited by GregC; 06/16/20 01:30 PM.
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Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3049109 06/16/20 01:51 PM
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Unfortunately I think with modern "news" and social media feeds tailored to show people what they want to hear--it's very difficult to get everyone to even agree with what the facts are, let alone agree on a common approach on how to deal with it. In other words, this "difficult situation" isn't even seen as such by a ton of people.

To make an extreme WWII analogy, we have a ton of people who think Pearl Harbor didn't happen. So there's no need to go to war.

I've said it before but Americans need to look around the world and see what has worked, is working, and what isn't. You don't always have to be a trailblazer.

Re: Bookings are coming in!
Stokely #3049114 06/16/20 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Stokely
Unfortunately I think with modern "news" and social media feeds tailored to show people what they want to hear--it's very difficult to get everyone to even agree with what the facts are, let alone agree on a common approach on how to deal with it. In other words, this "difficult situation" isn't even seen as such by a ton of people.

To make an extreme WWII analogy, we have a ton of people who think Pearl Harbor didn't happen. So there's no need to go to war.

I've said it before but Americans need to look around the world and see what has worked, is working, and what isn't. You don't always have to be a trailblazer.

I agree.

We should accept what science and research tell us. Thats factual and supported by evidence. Science has standards
and rules. Social media does not.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/people-getting-sick-coronavirus-spreading-115751594.html
Douglas Reed, Associate Professor of Immunology, University of Pittsburgh

Perhaps most striking, especially for myself as we contemplate how to reopen our church, is the example of the church choir in Skagit County, Washington.

A single individual singing at a choir practice infected 52 other people. Singing and loud vocalization in general can produce a lot of aerosols, and evidence
shows that some people are super-emitters of aerosols even during normal speech.

It’s likely that some infections in this incident occurred from droplets or direct contact, but the fact that one person was able to infect so many people strongly
suggests that airborne transmission was the driving factor in this outbreak.

Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3049115 06/16/20 02:14 PM
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Yeah unfortunately for many of us--churches and bars (for some, a bar is their church!) are a couple of the riskiest places. Expelling lots of air indoors is as bad as it gets. Gyms would be worse and I used to love going to the gym so that stinks. I know my mom's church has been doing drive-ins, so at least people can converse from car to car I guess and actually see people. I find zoom video pretty tiring and awful, it's the one thing I dislike about working from home.

Mostly I just hope my friends and folks I know in the music and service industries can make it through these times, and I hope people that are laid off from any industry can bounce back. The job market is terrible right now. As you say there is reason to be optimistic not only for a vaccine, but for better treatments as more is learned.

Re: Bookings are coming in!
Stokely #3049125 06/16/20 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Stokely
Yeah unfortunately for many of us--churches and bars (for some, a bar is their church!) are a couple of the riskiest places. Expelling lots of air indoors is as bad as it gets. Gyms would be worse and I used to love going to the gym so that stinks. d.

I use to be a gym rat, too. Somewhere, lets say 10 years ago, it hit me.

Assume I am frugal.

I have weights to lift at home, in the garage. I can knock out 30 pushups outside in the fresh air.

I run and bike outside. Sometimes I see neighbors and I stop at chat for a few minutes.

It must sound boring- its better if we adapt.

There is a silver lining.

Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3049136 06/16/20 04:42 PM
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We're going to have our first practice since before all this started this Thursday night, but it will not be in our guitar player's basement as it was before. We'll be having it at the other guitar player's shop (he works at a place that does high volume screen printing on shirts and other clothing). Lots of open space and can open up overhead doors to get wind blowing through, but no A/C and it's been in the 90s around here. I posted a pic on FB the other day when he was at work with a IR Thermometer showing 104 inside....so I guess I'll be dressing lightly for practice.


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Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3049146 06/16/20 05:10 PM
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Social media has made us a bit less, shall we say, resiliant than previous generations. Around my local area it breaks down two ways. One side, the one I occupy, has made the judgement call that a haircut isn't really worth your life or the life of your loved ones. The other side is out and about like nothing happened, tells people like me that I'm "living in fear" and sneers at you in the grocery store for wearing a mask. Posts on Facebook do a really good job of cranking up both sides, it seems....sometimes there really CAN be too much info.....

Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3049151 06/16/20 05:21 PM
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Characterizing it as wanting a haircut doesn't help. How about wanting to make a living so you don't lose your home and so that you can buy food? As businesses reopen, even where it's not required, I'm seeing most people wearing masks and using common sense social distancing. Even just walking around the neighborhood, folks will walk out into the street off the sidewalk to provide distance when we pass.


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Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3049155 06/16/20 05:29 PM
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Too much info, and too quick and unverified and unsourced.

I notice with my mom, who is in her mid-70s, that she still has the mindset that "I read it so it must be true". That used to be much more the case, a textbook or even a news story had to be sourced and checked (obviously even that is not 100%). These days, some random troll on twitter or someone smart enough to set up a youtube channel can appear quite professional indeed, and they can simply be making stuff up. Case in point that ludicrous "plandemic" vid put out by the woman who had "evidence" and sounded oh so scientific. That was all the rage in my mom's circle of facebook friends, it had all of them convinced. On glance at that woman's background and "credentials" was enough to tell you it was hogwash. (I did not watch it, because doing so gives money to the entity making the video, but I read the transcript.)

It's truly pathetic that people are being harassed for wearing masks. I know a couple people who have said they've had to endure comments and teasing about it. Ironically NOT wearing a mask would get you harassed big-time in China and probably Japan too (though they tend to be more polite!)

From hearing from many people in different states, seems like mask-wearing runs a big gamut. My estimate here for stores I've seen is maybe 40% are wearing them. Mostly people veer aside when out jogging/walking but I had one guy literally brush me as he ran by. I didn't hear him coming or I would have gone off into the grass since he wasn't going to....

Last edited by Stokely; 06/16/20 05:31 PM.
Re: Bookings are coming in!
Outkaster #3049157 06/16/20 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Outkaster
I just had 4 shows gone within a weeks time. This fuckin blows and we are about to be in phase 4 of NYS opening but the social distance rules will still kill music.


What social distancing? All my friends and other comments I've read online of people playing gigs again say clubs are packed, no one wearing masks and everybody is hanging all over each other. Everyone thinks it won't get them or it's not happening here so lets party!

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cphollis #3049165 06/16/20 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Stokely
It's truly pathetic that people are being harassed for wearing masks. I know a couple people who have said they've had to endure comments and teasing about it. Ironically NOT wearing a mask would get you harassed big-time in China and probably Japan too (though they tend to be more polite!)

Strange, I haven't heard a SINGLE case of somebody getting shamed for WEARING a mask. LOTS of cased of people getting shamed for NOT wearing one, including getting chased out of places by other patrons. One local radio show host said he was in his car by himself, and a woman pulled up next to him, honked and shook her finger at him pointing to her mask. He said he had a mask with him for when he got out, just no reason to wear it alone in the car.

Originally Posted by Docbop
What social distancing? All my friends and other comments I've read online of people playing gigs again say clubs are packed, no one wearing masks and everybody is hanging all over each other. Everyone thinks it won't get them or it's not happening here so lets party!

Funny and CA would seem to be one of those places that is gung ho about staying shut down and social distancing (if you watch the news - maybe that's unfair in REAL life). Yet, here, the gigs so far have mainly been outdoor and the few venues that have opened have taken out lots of tables and drastically limited how many people can be inside. A lot of venues are doing parking lot gigs where you can park every other space and sit in the spots between the cars and the band plays on the patio. A drive-in movie theater is doing concerts and a movie. Almost everyone is wearing masks everywhere I go.


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Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3049170 06/16/20 06:15 PM
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Not putting on a mask in public, especially indoors, is irresponsible, period...we know they are effective, especially combined with other measures. I doubt there's that many people getting "shamed" in either direction but I know of a few that have been harassed for wearing them. We know some store employees have been assaulted for trying to enforce store policy to put them on so this isn't a stretch. And it sounds like there are shamings going the other way. I have considerable less empathy with those to be honest. We are in a public health crisis. Bottom line, mask-wearing is much more likely to get us through the other side quicker than it is to slow down our recovery. Why not do it?

Rather than shaming patrons though, a better solutions is to reward businesses that enforce mask-wearing. That way there's no need for vigilantism and nobody gets "shamed" in either direction smile Costco is one place that is currently getting more of my money than before, for example.

Nobody is gung ho about being shut down. That's like saying I'm gung ho to go get my radiation treatments for cancer. This sucks for all of us but hopefully we are listening to those with some experience with pandemics in order to make the best decision possible.

Last edited by Stokely; 06/16/20 06:17 PM.
Re: Bookings are coming in!
GregC #3049171 06/16/20 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by GregC
Originally Posted by Outkaster
I just had 4 shows gone within a weeks time. This fuckin blows and we are about to be in phase 4 of NYS opening but the social distance rules will still kill music.


I think we have to ' adapt ' to circumstances.

During other pandemics and WW's, much of the population adapted to the difficult circumstances.

Our grand parents understood this, and practiced the virtue of self sacrifice. This sense of community
{ shared self sacrifice, we are all in this mess together] helped navigate the country and states thru
the very difficult times.

Its hard to adapt and think long term, and fully understand consequences. Our grand parents did
and so should we.

I predict circumstances will be much improved 1 year from now, as vaccinations will finally be produced
in massive quantity for our large population. When I assert this with family, friend, they can't see ahead
1 year.

ts unrealistic to expect current circumstances to resolve itself in 1 week or 1 month of even a few months.

Don't wait for a vaccine for too long. I work in a major hospital and it's a long way off and may not even work when it is released. I don't expect a week Greg but I am allowed to be mad about it. Our numbers are good in my region but this is a part of our life now, a pulminologist told me so in a meeting two weeks ago. Even in our hospital the virus is not talked about like it was two months ago. I still think striking fear into people doesn't work either and I work in public health in 11 counties in NYS. I hear it all and understand both sides of the issue.

Last edited by Outkaster; 06/16/20 07:33 PM.

"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"


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Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3049173 06/16/20 06:21 PM
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Speaking of vaccines, I would be very, very cautious of early vaccines for this thing. There is a LOT of political pressure to get one out there. Certainly anything that comes out in the states around October (which is not realistic in the slightest) would be looked at askance smile

I say this as someone who would like to shoot anti-vaxxers into the sun, because even worse than the non-mask-wearers, they are doing their best to ensure diseases like Measles make a comeback.

From what I read, the fastest vaccine ever put out there was for the Mumps, and that took over four years. Perhaps tech will help, but there's a lot of safety testing that needs time.

Striking fear is appropriate if there's a good chance it's something we should be fearful of. I get out of the water at the beach late in the day and when I have a cut on my leg, because now there's a better chance that I'll get bitten by a shark. I don't know that I will, but it's a larger risk. This situation is especially tough because of the lag (from contracting to symptoms to hospitalization...and then another one when it comes to reporting the data).

Last edited by Stokely; 06/16/20 06:25 PM.
Re: Bookings are coming in!
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Originally Posted by Stokely
Nobody is gung ho about being shut down. That's like saying I'm gung ho to go get my radiation treatments for cancer. This sucks for all of us but hopefully we are listening to those with some experience with pandemics in order to make the best decision possible.

"gung ho" was probably the wrong term to use. Didn't mean to imply people like it. I meant more aggressive about the shut down including being one of the first states to shut down and going as far as shutting off utilities to businesses, and things of that nature, also being very vocal against other states opening prematurely, though I understand the views of a politician being interviewed does not necessarily represent the views of the whole state.


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Re: Bookings are coming in!
Stokely #3049175 06/16/20 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Stokely
From hearing from many people in different states, seems like mask-wearing runs a big gamut. My estimate here for stores I've seen is maybe 40% are wearing them. ....

here in CA, each county is left to use state guidelines to ' mandate' face coverings or " not mandate face coverings '.

Here in Contra Costa county, population 1.1 million, face coverings are mandated when shopping, in retail etc.

In the grocery stores, retail, its announced every 5 minutes, 'if you walk in you must wear face covering, and if not, or you will be escorted out'.

As result, when ever I have to shop EVERYONE in the store is wearing a mask.

The county I am next to, San Joaquin county is loose on prevention.
There, the face coverings are simply ' recommended'. but NOT mandated/required.

As a result, the Covid 19 cases in San Joaquin have spiked the past 2 weeks. A 5-6% daily contagion growth rate.
Its one of the counties that our governor called out Monday for spiking Covid 19 growth rate.

I had a gig offer in Stockton [ San Joaquin ] starting Thursday.

I declined it.

My wife also teaches 3rd grade in San Joaquin county.
School year starts Aug 1. So far, the Covid 19 preventive steps in her
school are weak.

Her district sup is using ' no money ' and finger pointing county health for the excuses.

Re: Bookings are coming in!
J. Dan #3049178 06/16/20 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by J. Dan
Originally Posted by Stokely
Nobody is gung ho about being shut down. That's like saying I'm gung ho to go get my radiation treatments for cancer. This sucks for all of us but hopefully we are listening to those with some experience with pandemics in order to make the best decision possible.

"gung ho" was probably the wrong term to use. Didn't mean to imply people like it. I meant more aggressive about the shut down including being one of the first states to shut down and going as far as shutting off utilities to businesses, and things of that nature, also being very vocal against other states opening prematurely, though I understand the views of a politician being interviewed does not necessarily represent the views of the whole state.

Understood. Unfortunately nobody really knows the best approach, it's all educated (or not) guessing and the bad part is that there will be a lot of second-guessing whichever way it goes. If social distancing works, then it looks like we didn't need to social distance....

As far as schools...yeah. I don't see how schools, which are chaotically under-funded in some cases as it is, are going to be very organized or effective during this. My youngest is going to be starting high school and we may have to consider home schooling, much as I'm not in favor of that normally.

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Re: Bookings are coming in!
J. Dan #3049188 06/16/20 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by J. Dan
Originally Posted by Stokely
Nobody is gung ho about being shut down. That's like saying I'm gung ho to go get my radiation treatments for cancer. This sucks for all of us but hopefully we are listening to those with some experience with pandemics in order to make the best decision possible.

"gung ho" was probably the wrong term to use. Didn't mean to imply people like it. I meant more aggressive about the shut down including being one of the first states to shut down and going as far as shutting off utilities to businesses, and things of that nature, also being very vocal against other states opening prematurely, though I understand the views of a politician being interviewed does not necessarily represent the views of the whole state.


CA is a very large state and it has it's right leaning areas and areas in general have their mix of political views. Most of the right leaning areas are typical types, either rural area anti-governent types or the ultra rich. I've lived in Bay Area, close to Central CA, and SoCal grew up in L.A.. I also worked for awhile in Orange County the very southern part of CA which is the big right leaning ultra rich area. So a lot of diversity which is good and keeping one's eyes and ears open is very educational.

Re: Bookings are coming in!
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Originally Posted by Docbop
[quote=J. Dae.


CA is a very large state and it has it's right leaning areas and areas in general have their mix of political views. Most of the right leaning areas are typical types, either rural area anti-governent types or the ultra rich. I've lived in Bay Area, close to Central CA, and SoCal grew up in L.A.. I also worked for awhile in Orange County the very southern part of CA which is the big right leaning ultra rich area. So a lot of diversity which is good and keeping one's eyes and ears open is very educational.[/quote]


accurate depiction of diversity in our state of 40 million.

while Contra Costa is considered part of SF Bay Area, we are right next to San Joaquin, agricultural valley.

In our 3 town area, Brentwood, Oakley, Discovery Bay, there is a core group of anti science, hate gov't, conspiracy theory types.
They are vocal rednecks[ only term I can think of], and think all the events/facts of Covid 19 is a ton of BS.

Re: Bookings are coming in!
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I was trying to avoid stereotypes, but since you guys went there, you're assuming it's the crazy right wing who isn't wearing masks and social distancing. MO is a conservative state with lots of conservatives in the suburbs around the city of St. Louis and it appears I'm seeing a lot more masks and social distancing than you are seeing in CA, so maybe it's not so much a liberal vs conservative thing, but a MO vs CA thing. Food for thought.


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Re: Bookings are coming in!
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Originally Posted by Stokely
[quo

As far as schools...yeah. I don't see how schools, which are chaotically under-funded in some cases as it is, are going to be very organized or effective during this. My youngest is going to be starting high school and we may have to consider home schooling, much as I'm not in favor of that normally.

our grammar or grade school year begins around Aug 5. Variation of start date by school district.

We stay up to date on the spread by town, by county, and what the county actually does based on conditions.

My wife and her school friends are careful, as you would expect. At the first sign of trouble, in the new school year, the state will close the schools.

currently, the 'guidance/action ' is based on 'reactive ' circumstances. No face coverings recovers for the children.
No change in crowding 30 children into a class room with 1 teacher. A nearby box of Kleenex.

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To me wearing a mask is shows respect and concern for my fellow human beings.

Just hit me it's like think it was Pascal who mathematically proved you should believe in God. Basically the benefits of believing are even if there isn't a God than not believing and it turns out there is a God. Don't get mad if I didn't word this correctly it's been a long time since I heard this in school. But I see wearing a mask is the same, the benefit of wearing one outweighs the (remote) possibility the virus is a hoax.

Re: Bookings are coming in!
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Originally Posted by J. Dan
I was trying to avoid stereotypes, but since you guys went there, you're assuming it's the crazy right wing who isn't wearing masks and social distancing. MO is a conservative state with lots of conservatives in the suburbs around the city of St. Louis and it appears I'm seeing a lot more masks and social distancing than you are seeing in CA, so maybe it's not so much a liberal vs conservative thing, but a MO vs CA thing. Food for thought.

Oh for sure - there's plenty of dumb on all parts of the political spectrum smile


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Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3049259 06/17/20 03:07 AM
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So I quit my first band gig over this today....a trio that I had played one gig with before the Black Plague 2.0 hit, but had several bookings a month throughout the rest of the year.....they had an offer for July 3rd, WAYYY too soon to make me comfortable. It was a VERY succint exchange. Got a text from the BL that just said, "You in or out?" I sent him a long text explaining that, as much as I loved playing with the two of them (and I've played with both guys in a variety of situations for YEARS) that my wife and I talked it over and seeing as both of us are a bit high risk (I'm on blood thinners, she's over 65 with asthma, and we're BOTH cancer survivors), that I would have to bow out. His response was simply "Ok". That was it. Not, "Ok, cool, I understand, we'll just go another way, be safe", IOW, what anyone I figured was a friend would say (and I really felt that both these guys were friends of mine), just "Ok". Ah well, like my wife says, I shouldn't let it hurt my feelings and maybe I overestimated our relationship, but it stung a little bit.....

Re: Bookings are coming in!
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I wouldn't read too much into a text message. I've had relationships end from misinterpretation of a text message. If it bothered you, call him.


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Re: Bookings are coming in!
J. Dan #3049264 06/17/20 03:36 AM
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Originally Posted by J. Dan
I wouldn't read too much into a text message. I've had relationships end from misinterpretation of a text message. If it bothered you, call him.
Agree

Re: Bookings are coming in!
area51recording #3049265 06/17/20 03:53 AM
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Originally Posted by area51recording
Originally Posted by J. Dan
I wouldn't read too much into a text message. I've had relationships end from misinterpretation of a text message. If it bothered you, call him.
Agree

Indeed - I'd have read the 'Ok' as him being disappointed but respecting you enough to not say more...


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Re: Bookings are coming in!
Dave Holloway #3049271 06/17/20 04:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Holloway
Originally Posted by area51recording
Originally Posted by J. Dan
I wouldn't read too much into a text message. I've had relationships end from misinterpretation of a text message. If it bothered you, call him.
Agree

Indeed - I'd have read the 'Ok' as him being disappointed but respecting you enough to not say more...

Yep, what these guys said. Not everyone puts the same effort into the niceties of written communication, particularly SMS or similar. It can be a mistake to measure others' intent by our own standards.

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Maybe this is slightly OT but I mentioned a relationship ending do to this. I'm talking a romantic relationship. I had no idea that an innocent text could be interpreted the way it was on a Friday night. My son was in the Pinewood Derby State competition during the day Saturday while she worked and we were supposed to go out Saturday night. I had limited cell access and was involved in the event with my son. I tried to reply to her messages and figure out what she was upset about. By the time I was done with the pinewood derby stuff and she was off work, she moved solidly into passive aggressive mode and I was very confused. At the end of the day, she wanted me to apologize for saying something I didn't say, but she interpreted. So there's the conundrum. If you apologize, you admit you said what they think, even though you didn't. If you DON'T apologize they aren't satisfied. We went round and round as I tried to explain, until I finally just broke up with her. I can't stand that kind of BS and games, but it all started by my own poor communication via text.


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Re: Bookings are coming in!
J. Dan #3049301 06/17/20 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by J. Dan
I wouldn't read too much into a text message. I've had relationships end from misinterpretation of a text message. If it bothered you, call him.


Yep. I've worked with, and played with, plenty of people that don't express themselves well via email or text. Worse are the people who over-express themselves and read emotion into every sentence you write. I've been part of giant email band threads where it just keeps winding up as the imagined slights pile up. Those kind of people require voice inflection or even in-person body language in order to know what you really intended; I've had to put some folks on phone-only contact, anything remotely important I call them up or ask they call me. Smilies and emoticons help but even those get ignored sometimes in favor of whatever imagined tone they think you were using. smile

As far as right and left--agreed. There are the stereotypical righties with the "government can't tell me what to do" but there's also a lot of older folks I know that are Conservatives that are self-quarantining. There are a lot of younger people disregarding this right now and I reckon many of them aren't political at all. They are just bored and unwilling or unable to grasp that their actions may affect others. I know one guy in his 50s with the unfortunate attitude of that this will kill off the weakest of us, it's not such a bad thing. Some people engaged in risk when they protested, but in the minds of many that was worth the risk. In general the one thing in common is that on thewhole people in this country--for better or worse--don't have as much sense of "society" as some others. So it would be expected IMO that America is not going to deal as well with something that needs to be dealt with on a societal "we're all in this together" level.

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Re: Bookings are coming in!
J. Dan #3049360 06/17/20 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by J. Dan
Characterizing it as wanting a haircut doesn't help. How about wanting to make a living so you don't lose your home and so that you can buy food? As businesses reopen, even where it's not required, I'm seeing most people wearing masks and using common sense social distancing. Even just walking around the neighborhood, folks will walk out into the street off the sidewalk to provide distance then we pass.

Sorry, I get what you're saying and I agree in principle, but I talk with a LOT of folks to whom it literally IS about a haircut, or at least the FREEDOM to go get one. Incredibly self centered, in my opinion......

Re: Bookings are coming in!
Stokely #3049361 06/17/20 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Stokely
Originally Posted by J. Dan
I wouldn't read too much into a text message. I've had relationships end from misinterpretation of a text message. If it bothered you, call him.


Yep. I've worked with, and played with, plenty of people that don't express themselves well via email or text. Worse are the people who over-express themselves and read emotion into every sentence you write. I've been part of giant email band threads where it just keeps winding up as the imagined slights pile up. Those kind of people require voice inflection or even in-person body language in order to know what you really intended; I've had to put some folks on phone-only contact, anything remotely important I call them up or ask they call me. Smilies and emoticons help but even those get ignored sometimes in favor of whatever imagined tone they think you were using. smile

The other side of this is, as I said, I've known this guy for YEARS an we've worked together often. If it were someone I didn't communicate with often I wouldn't give it a second thought, but our relationship, even via text, was never that brusque.....

Re: Bookings are coming in!
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As far as short text messages, maybe the guy has an Apple Watch. There are a bunch of default replies you can tap like "Hello!" "What's up?" "On my way." "OK" "Sure!" "No problem!" "In a meeting. Call you later?" etc. so he might have just tapped one of those.

Originally Posted by J. Dan
Maybe this is slightly OT but I mentioned a relationship ending do to this. I'm talking a romantic relationship. I had no idea that an innocent text could be interpreted the way it was on a Friday night. My son was in the Pinewood Derby State competition during the day Saturday while she worked and we were supposed to go out Saturday night. I had limited cell access and was involved in the event with my son. I tried to reply to her messages and figure out what she was upset about. By the time I was done with the pinewood derby stuff and she was off work, she moved solidly into passive aggressive mode and I was very confused. At the end of the day, she wanted me to apologize for saying something I didn't say, but she interpreted. So there's the conundrum. If you apologize, you admit you said what they think, even though you didn't. If you DON'T apologize they aren't satisfied. We went round and round as I tried to explain, until I finally just broke up with her. I can't stand that kind of BS and games, but it all started by my own poor communication via text.
Remember when people used to call each other, and lots of times it wouldn't go through for no good reason? My wife and I had an incident like that. I dropped her off by the door of a place because it was pouring rain, and I parked at the far end of the lot but was stuck in the car or I'd get drenched. She called me dozens of times and when I finally got to where she was she was pissed that I "ignored" her calls. I'm not faulting her then or now, other times it happened the other way around as well. So I said, let's not get mad at each other when it was the failure of technology, okay? It took some conscious effort on both our parts.

Similarly, a friend of mine had an incident where one tried to get a hold of another when they knew the other was out, for whatever reason it didn't go through, and they got mad. It was a dumb thing, but like your case Dan, when you're just dating it can end the relationship and in this case it did.

Back on the subject, I see bands here announcing dates, but cases are going up, setting new highs. No thanks. I'll sit this one out.


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Re: Bookings are coming in!
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This case here is why indoor bars (and gyms, and churches etc) are really iffy ideas right now.

https://nypost.com/2020/06/16/florida-healthcare-worker-15-friends-catch-covid-19-at-bar/

Every single person in their group tested positive.

Not so bad for *them*, as none of them (so far) have had any serious illness from this. Not so good for any other people they might have spread this to that aren't as lucky or free of illness (they all look very young.)

“The state opens back up and said everybody was fine, so we took advantage of that.” What can you say to that smile Who could be more trustworthy than the state of Florida after all (I'm in it so I get to say that.)

My buddy is staying at the beach this week, and he and his wife (both in their 60s) are being extra careful. Right next door to their spot is a buffet restaurant that is normally packed with--as he put it--"older folks than me" smile It's one of these places with long lines to even get in sometimes. Well, yesterday he said it was as packed as ever. Could there be a worse place to go right now than a buffet restaurant, especially when you are a senior? I really fear for what we might see in two or three weeks.

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Re: Bookings are coming in!
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Buffet? I'd rather play a nice spirited game of Russian Roulette.....

Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3049492 06/18/20 03:34 AM
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Playing gigs feels unsafe to me at this point.

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I never trusted buffets even back before the great plague. After working in restaurants back in the ancient before time I barely trust even eating in those. You really don't want to know what happens behing the double swing doors.

Re: Bookings are coming in!
eric #3049518 06/18/20 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by eric
Playing gigs feels unsafe to me at this point.

I was called to do my annual gig for the Public Counsel at the Beverly Hilton in Sept. This year's William O. Douglas honoree is John Legend. I told him him to put me down as tentative. If he needs a solid commitment from someone, I said to call someone else. I want to see where we're at in a few months with this in LA. Right now, the numbers keep going up. Especially in Orange County. facepalm

At the Beverly Hilton, it's a gigantic ballroom usually filled with hundreds of people. Right now at least, no thanks, no way. Maybe if they were honoring Jarrett, Chick, Herbie or Kenny Barron, I'd at least consider it. smile cool

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Originally Posted by Jr. Deluxe
I never trusted buffets even back before the great plague. After working in restaurants back in the ancient before time I barely trust even eating in those. You really don't want to know what happens behing the double swing doors.

This is the truth...one of my first jobs (and one of the hardest I've ever done in my life) was as a "barback" at a very popular bar restaurant. Let's just say that those glasses that you see at the bar, I'm not going to say those really get all that clean, especially during a busy time. Maybe it's ok, the alcohol helps sterilize things (?) The fridge in the restaurant was....iffy....

I drove out to a property we own that is getting some fixit work done. This took me past a big chunk of Orlando and at the lights I had a chance to eyeball people coming in and out of stores and other places. I revise my mask percentage downward to 10% based on that trip. I saw people at 5 or 6 bus stops crammed into the little roofed area (it was light rain) and not one had a mask on. The local news was showing vid taken in the last couple days from the airport and you only saw a mask here and there, they had employees in the vid not wearing them. People were in the same crowded lines as usual waiting to check in luggage, no social distancing to be seen. I wouldn't be flying period short of some critical reason....in short, driving through town looked very close to "normal". Crowded parking lots, few masks. Guess we'll see. I feel somewhat vindicated cancelling my kids' sports programs this summer, something I agonized over. My co-worker has her kids in multiple programs though. There's some conjecture that kids not only aren't getting this as much but aren't spreading it to adults nearly as much as you'd think--but I need more evidence from studies to go with that thought.

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Re: Bookings are coming in!
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Originally Posted by J. Dan
Maybe this is slightly OT but I mentioned a relationship ending do to this. I'm talking a romantic relationship. I had no idea that an innocent text could be interpreted the way it was on a Friday night. My son was in the Pinewood Derby State competition during the day Saturday while she worked and we were supposed to go out Saturday night. I had limited cell access and was involved in the event with my son. I tried to reply to her messages and figure out what she was upset about. By the time I was done with the pinewood derby stuff and she was off work, she moved solidly into passive aggressive mode and I was very confused. At the end of the day, she wanted me to apologize for saying something I didn't say, but she interpreted. So there's the conundrum. If you apologize, you admit you said what they think, even though you didn't. If you DON'T apologize they aren't satisfied. We went round and round as I tried to explain, until I finally just broke up with her. I can't stand that kind of BS and games, but it all started by my own poor communication via text.

Sometimes it's worth it to just apologize and move on, even if you know you weren't in the wrong.


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Re: Bookings are coming in!
Stokely #3049553 06/18/20 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Stokely
There's some conjecture that kids not only aren't getting this as much but aren't spreading it to adults nearly as much as you'd think--but I need more evidence from studies to go with that thought.

The only 2 people I know of personally, that have contracted COVID, are a couple in their mid 40's who got it from their young child. They recovered at home and were back at work after the required time.

I'll do every outside gig I can (so far it's only been one). Indoor gigs are the ones I'm leery of, although I did play piano for 3 nights running at a restaurant. All staff required to wear masks and the place looked funny with half the tables removed. No stools at the bar either. It was the early part of the week and there were less than half the allowed customers even on the busiest night (at least the ones that were there tipped well). Hope to start a new non-music job next week, minimal contact involved. Got bills, need money.

Funny about Florida..at Walmarts and grocery stores in MS the masked outnumber the unmasked, and by a significant margin. Some open air venues have got too crowded and the police shut them down. A 10 pm curfew is no longer in effect, as of this week.

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Originally Posted by pinkfloydcramer
Funny about Florida..at Walmarts and grocery stores in MS the masked outnumber the unmasked, and by a significant margin. Some open air venues have got too crowded and the police shut them down. A 10 pm curfew is no longer in effect, as of this week.

To be fair, I've heard from others in stores that they see everyone with masks on. It may depend on the area, or the store, or the time of day changing the makeup of the crowds.

I think seeing the people waiting for the bus without masks--shoulder to shoulder at the bus stops--was the most disheartening thing I saw on that trip.

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Originally Posted by Stokely
There's some conjecture that kids not only aren't getting this as much but aren't spreading it to adults nearly as much as you'd think--but I need more evidence from studies to go with that thought.
There's some evidence that kids don't have many of the ACE2 receptors that the virus enters your system through. Those develop later, starting around age 12 and increasing as you get into adulthood. This is an hypothesis at this point. But it explains why young kids don't get severely ill from the virus and don't spread it as easily as adults. There are several references if you google ACE2 and children and COVID-19. Here are a couple: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2766522, https://www.nature.com/articles/s41390-020-0881-y_

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Thanks El Lobo.

There's a train coming down the tracks for our family, and that is when my youngest starts high school in the fall. This summer we have had to limit his activities just as we are doing our own. My oldest also, he's going to college so he'll be happy staying away anyway smile But having a kid come back every day from high school, hard to see how you can avoid exposure. Quarantining apart in the same house seems iffy at best.

Interesting, I was on a work zoom call where a couple people got tested and results back in 20 minutes while they waited. That would be simply awesome if the tests are accurate.

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The education element is interesting and I also would like to thank you El Lobo for sharing this information.

My Ex Wife is in education as are many of my friends and there are a lot of competing interests trying to figure out what to do this fall. The options range from continuing to stay home and do zoom classes, to reduced class sizes by splitting classes and doing every other day with distancing and disinfection guidelines (my son's middle school proposing this), to full on resumption of classes.

Evidence suggests there probably isn't much danger to the younger kids, but the teachers are exposed potentially to high and consistent viral loading. My ex said that if they have symptoms they are forced to stay home for 2 weeks (even with no testing) and would have to take personal time for those 2 weeks. If they don't have 2 weeks of personal time banked, then they don't get paid and aren't allowed to work, even though they aren't given a test. So I can see the standpoint of the teachers and the teachers union.

The other side is the parents who have to work and either would have to hire sitters or stay home from work if their kids aren't in school. Kids forced to stay home often means parents forced to stay home, which has an impact on families that can be very serious.

All that said, per El Lobo's post, based on age, it seems maybe kids of an age that are getting more likely to be infected and spread are also old enough to stay home alone while their parents work. So maybe elementary and middle school go back with some provisions for safety for the teachers while high school continues online and zoom.

Just a thought.


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That's awful about the teachers having to take personal days. Of all the professions that should be given importance I'd put teachers high on the list. I was pretty close to being one myself (elementary ed) but decided to go into IT--in some ways I regret that decision but the low pay and lack of respect from the school system were too much for me (among other issues). My brother is an ICU nurse and I'm really worried about him if/when this hits the fan.

I know I hope my kid is able to go to high school, because this has not had a great effect on him (and likely most kids). Hell it's had a bad effect on most of us I reckon. I honestly don't see how it can happen knowing that's two months off and Florida just registered a record number of cases.

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regular school (non-college) are going to be a mess since so many are over crowded to start with. About the time I finished high school they started was special version of my high school for students for a multitude of reason regular high school didn't work. Since in my in day if you hair touched the collar of your shirt it was too long (yes, I'm old). So musicians in band some went to the special high school and I had a number of friends that went. The school was really loosely run so I got to go and hang out and visit a couple times. What is was was two big open classrooms with desks down the middle. All sorts of supplies and reference materials around the classroom. Then two or three teachers for each classroom. Students were given study guides and workbooks for the grade level they were working on when ready tests to take to pass to next level. Students could work at any pace they wanted with general timeframes. Student could take a break whenever they wanted as long as they didn't disturb the others. When student needed help or advice the teacher would work one on one with them. They would have a classroom presentations occasionally. So student worked, took tests, and moved thru pretty much the same material the regular high school student did and would graduate just the same. I'd say a big portion of the students finish high school faster working on their own. Something like with today computer based course seems like it would work and social distancing would be easier to insure. Seem like in modern world that could be a better education model, by putting more responsibility on the individual student.


Then for colleges I was a programmer at UCLA and one thing we heard constantly from the administration is we need to bring in more money, but the campus is already too full. So streaming online classes is what the university was pushing for, they figured with online classes they could increase enrollment by 50% and bring in a lot more money. So they were experimenting with it and students like it. Where it was having trouble when I was there is the instructors and teachers they wanted more money and started fighting over who owned copyright of the class materials they teach. So online college works and only crowding on campus was during mid term and finals when online student had to on oncampus for testing.

It's 2020 time to move education into the steaming age too.

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Originally Posted by Docbop
It's 2020 time to move education into the steaming age too.

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All joking aside, there are now so many human activities that people are willing to conduct remotely. Education is one. My last three doctor visits were done remotely. Realtors are conducting virtual tours of properties. Job interviews for remote jobs.

Live music, eh, not the same really.


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Is this now the Covid 19 thread? Hard to keep track. It's a highly transmissible topic.

California is getting stricter with its mask wearing rules. Where I live in Marin County most people pay attention and follow rules. The County sets strict rules and enforces them. That means it's less likely we'll see local gigs anytime soon. I'm content with that tradeoff. Sometimes what's best for you is also best for the population at large. This is not one of those times.

It's interesting if you look at all the virus-related threads on this forum (some of which have been deleted, so the archive is incomplete), how optimism has waxed and waned. I'd say about a month ago optimism was peaking. Now it is apparent that in the US the most we've been able to do to the curve is reduce its rate of increase. But it's still increasing and that's in the middle of summer. Look at the statistics, not what people say about the statistics. The way things are going there will be gigs in Madrid before there are gigs in Marin.


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Adan #3049720 06/19/20 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Adan
Is this now the Covid 19 thread? Hard to keep track. It's a highly transmissible topic.

Yeah it seems that way rolleyes Props to cphollis, RandyFF, Delaware Dave, Escape Rocks, Al Quinn, MotiDave, Moonglow, area51recording, Dave Ferris, pinkfloydcramer for their gig related posts - especially to those who have done them.

I check this thread daily. I want to know how things are going for others, because I'm trying to make decisions for myself. It's not worth a gig report because it's not the same thing you guys do, but I did a gig last Friday. It was supposed to be a one-off, but response was so great that they want me to do more. Numbers in my county are fairly low - around 1 in 1000. But it's an indoor club - a rather large one, but not the outdoor venue I was hoping for.

It helps temper my somewhat reckless enthusiasm when I read what kinds of things you guys are taking... and what you're not. So please don't let this thread go too OT. It has the potential to be a continuous rolling thread, and a valuable resource to all of us throughout the pandemic.

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Caveat: I'm no expert!

Any gig I'd do, I'd try to make sure I had a fan blowing from behind me (where hopefully there'd be no other band members or patrons). I generally bring mine anyway keep cool smile Beyond the obvious advantage of being "upwind", a fan may help to disperse the concentration of virus, this appears to be the main danger. Outdoors has a lot of swirling air and breezes and that's one reason the experts think it's much safer. The virus spreads out (which sounds scary, but the concentration reduces) and ends up landing on things. I'd bring multiple fans if I had them.

However, an indoor place with AC--meaning lower humidity-- and little to no outside ventilation might mean that the virus would continue to float around and gather over time from all the people in the room. In such a case a fan might not help. Wear a mask if you can IMO. Make it a cool black one with hotrod flames on it wink

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It's too bad the band I used to frequently fill in with isn't around anymore (band leader passed away last July). That band was named "Contagious".


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I accepted (conditionally) my first gig back. Middle of August, with my jazz trio. I told the guys (both of whom don't seem to be as cautious as me) that with it being two months away, it'll either be on the downhill slide, or static (and as I said earlier, for some reason we don't have a LOT of virus activity......yet) or it will be armageddon, in which case they'd have to cancel or get a sub. Both of them were cool with it, and even though they're more cavalier with it, they understand my trepidation.....

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Smalls is back but online no audience just the a few Smalls staff and maybe a friend or two of the band. They removed the chairs so can see the behind the camera how people are hanging out. Smalls appears to of rearranged thing a bit so looks like a little more room for the band to spread out. The bands playing some wearing masks and some can't horn players. Bands seems pretty comfortable. Smalls doing the shows in the afternoon not at night easier for all and they now put their live shows on YouTube and FB so lots of live music. All shows are archived but there is a monthly fee for the access to the archive. Archive money gets divided up and given to the musicians in the videos that are watched.

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We’re already getting summer gigs by calling our show a Protest with Live Music.
Masks for 10 bucks each and we fine people 20 bucks for breaking social distancing guidelines.

Gonna get some../


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cphollis #3051156 06/26/20 05:49 PM
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Now that about a month has passed, I'm curious how things are going for those of you that are doing live gigs? Is anyone playing in venues where the band and patrons are wearing masks and socially distancing on the dance floor? That's my main sticking point with any future gigs - I'd really rather avoid this by playing outdoors in a large enough setting that it's safe to not need masks.

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cphollis #3051158 06/26/20 05:55 PM
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I haven't been, but 3/5ths of my band has still been gigging. I expect that just stopped with the no-alcohol pronouncement that our Governor just made after 8942 state cases from yesterday alone, with an increasing % of positive tests.

From what they have been saying--not a single person has been wearing a mask at their gigs, possibly the servers being an exception, not sure. Indoors, outdoors, doesn't matter. Obviously every place and state may be different.

We are still working through the first wave, which was temporarily slowed down by social distancing and some shutdowns. Florida got this late, we are heading to where NYC was quite possibly.

Last edited by Stokely; 06/26/20 05:56 PM.
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I'm also curious. Chuck, is your area still low in cases, or has it followed the rest of Florida? Edmonton was probably the best major metro area in NA until we started coming back up with initial reopening. Pretty sure we've passed Calgary in active cases now.


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https://verobeach.com/vero-beach-community/coronavirus-data-indian-river-county-florida

Updated: June 26, 2020 @ 1:42 pm


Indian River County Cases = 541
(individuals who tested positive)
Residents: 530
Non-Residents: 11

Deaths: 16

Gender:
Male: 243 (46%)
Female: 286 (54%)
Unknown/No data: 1 (1%)

Race:
Black: 38 (7%)
White: 258 (49%)
Other: 51 (10%)
Unknown/No Data: 183 (35%)

Ethnicity:
Hispanic: 109 (21%)
Not-Hispanic: 211 (40%)
Unknown/No Data: 210 (40%)

Last edited by GregC; 06/26/20 06:48 PM.
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The only person you can listen to is yourself. Too many not so hidden agendas from government to open up. If you don’t do it for the money, I really can’t see any point getting back to gigging until there’s a vaccine, especially if your over 40 and carrying health issues. Surely the experience of a gig at the moment has to be extremely low on energy and the hassle and heightened anxiety would make it tedious.

Of course the youngsters will do the gigs, but you have to pass the baton on to the younger guys at some point, certainly until it’s safe to go back into it with a vaccine.


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cphollis #3051173 06/26/20 07:40 PM
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When this thread started there was a broad consensus that Florida was at the low end of the spectrum in terms of risk. That's not true anymore, and the state continues to trend in the wrong direction. Illustrates how all gigging plans must be viewed as tentative.

I don't know about Vero Beach in particular. But when the Mets decided to leave Florida to continue spring training in NY, that was a pretty clear sign that things had shifted.


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Vero (and much of the east coast) isn't that far from Orange County, where Orlando is. They had over 1000 cases reported yesterday. And some of the worst counties are not that much further south. It's a bit dangerous to look at one county over another since people can and do travel between them so much.

Hearing that most bands are reporting on FB--I'm not on there but I just talked to a musician who is--that most if not all gigs are being cancelled today. As I said earlier, bars can be open but they can't serve alcohol, so there goes any money needed to pay bands (and any reason to stay open for most of them).

I think it's absolutely pathetic that--so many months out from the start of this--there are long lines to get tested and some places (including hospitals) are running out of tests period. Pa-thetic.

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https://www.yahoo.com/news/florida-record-cases-coronavirus-deepening-crisis-maps-165529121.html

CDC maps show Florida's deepening coronavirus crisis, as state shatters daily case record

Florida announced nearly 9,000 new daily coronavirus cases on Friday, breaking its previous record and sparking new concerns about a surge across the South.

“I think we were careless and we went out into a public place when we should not have. And we were not wearing masks. I think we had a whole ‘Out of sight, out of mind’ mentality. The state opens back up and said everybody was fine, so we took advantage of that,” said Erika Crisp, who works in health care.

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Florida Orders Bars to Shut Down as Coronavirus Cases Hit New Record

https://www.yahoo.com/news/florida-orders-bars-shut-down-175146869.html


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You get tested today then tomorrow you catch the virus. I'm not seeing the big value in being tested in this scenario. In fact you could get the virus on the way to the test location. A vaccine is the answer. Or an effective therapy once you have symtoms.

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Originally Posted by Jr. Deluxe
You get tested today then tomorrow you catch the virus. I'm not seeing the big value in being tested in this scenario. In fact you could get the virus on the way to the test location. A vaccine is the answer. Or an effective therapy once you have symtoms.

I don't follow or maybe I disagree
Here is why:

If you test positive, you don't want to spread it further,

also , county health is going to do contact tracing on you, to determine origin and spread.

You would prefer expert medical help, if you are positive for Covid-19, correct ?

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Originally Posted by Stokely
Vero (
I think it's absolutely pathetic that--so many months out from the start of this--there are long lines to get tested and some places (including hospitals) are running out of tests period. Pa-thetic.

it is pathetic. The time to act and take hard action was January - March.

Some states/county knew we had to shelter in place, etc etc like CA.
[ CA has 58 counties. Some counties, like rural San Joaquin and Imperial,
ignored CA state mandates. Now they are hot spots].

It was known and obvious in Jan/Feb what was needed to be done to stop Covid in its tracks.

Other countries, in Europe and Asia, did not waste the 2-3 month Covid warning.

Now they are in better shape, as they got a payback for taking hard action for 2-3 months.

Our country, on a national level, wasted the 2-3 month window.
2.49M cases
127K deaths.

Epic failure. The US is regarded as bad as Russia and Brazil for mishandling the pandemic.

Ignore Covid, allow it to take root and spread , its like a wild fire.

Last edited by GregC; 06/26/20 09:17 PM.
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Originally Posted by Jr. Deluxe
You get tested today then tomorrow you catch the virus. I'm not seeing the big value in being tested in this scenario. In fact you could get the virus on the way to the test location. A vaccine is the answer. Or an effective therapy once you have symtoms.

Really, you don’t see the “big“ value? How about if you already have it but don’t know it? Getting the results of a test might help prevent you from infecting others. I think that’s a pretty big value myself.

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Well we are fairly certain no vaccine will be coming to us in 2020, and maybe not in 2021. The fastest vaccine ever made public was for Mumps and that took four years. Some corners are bound to be cut here and hopefully that risk will be worth it. I can say I won't be entirely eager to be first up to get a rushed vaccine.

In the meantime, I'd like to think that the more informed we are the better decisions we can make. I reckon there's a good chance that people that want to be tested think they might have the virus--and we should make it as easy as possible to find this out (since presumably like GregC says, someone who knows they are positive can then be much more careful). A side benefit is getting a better understanding of just how many people have this thing, even if we can't cure it yet. Uncertainty is bad. Whatever my gut feeling may be on this, epidemiologists seem to be the ones saying "do more testing", while politicians seem to be making excuses why we don't need it. I know who I tend to believe.

I don't see how you can catch this driving to a testing site (?) More and more studies are showing that risk goes up: indoors; with more time; with less distance; and without masks. That makes the gym and bars (indoors ones) top of the avoid list since they can possibly check all those boxes. Something like the beach is very low risk IMO, provided it's not super-crowded (and none here are, you can quickly walk to a spot with nobody within 50 feet). Bathrooms, yeah, just pee in the water like a true surfer!

Last edited by Stokely; 06/26/20 09:23 PM.
Re: Bookings are coming in!
Stokely #3051196 06/26/20 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Stokely
We

I don't see how you can catch this driving to a testing site (?) r!

what ?

where did that come from ?

I have to visit Kaiser once per week, here in CA

These medical facilities go wayyyyyy over the top to sanitize and protect their medical facilities.

I am aware that some people are afraid of doctors. They are afraid of tests.
They are afraid of visits.
They are afraid of vaccines, too.
There is a a certain [. and disappointing] % of folks that will refuse
a Covid 19 vaccine. Unreasonable fear.

Re: Bookings are coming in!
eric #3051197 06/26/20 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by eric
Now that about a month has passed, I'm curious how things are going for those of you that are doing live gigs? Is anyone playing in venues where the band and patrons are wearing masks and socially distancing on the dance floor? That's my main sticking point with any future gigs - I'd really rather avoid this by playing outdoors in a large enough setting that it's safe to not need masks.

Not live gigs (sorry feel free to ignore), masks not required and not on anyone except employees, dancing lighter than normal and confined to couples who are "a couple" or at least six feet apart. The dancing rule - and social distancing - are kinda sorta enforced by security. This very large indoor room used to be a supermarket, so tables are 6' apart and then some. I feel safe in there.

But I wouldn't in others. Just how seriously Phase II rules are enforced varies wildly in my area - as does each individual room's layout. I'd take it case by case Eric. It's not a one size fits all.

Re: Bookings are coming in!
GregC #3051198 06/26/20 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by GregC
Originally Posted by Stokely
We

I don't see how you can catch this driving to a testing site (?) r!

what ?

where did that come from ?

I have to visit Kaiser once per week, here in CA

These medical facilities go wayyyyyy over the top to sanitize and protect their medical facilities.

I am aware that some people are afraid of doctors. They are afraid of tests.
They are afraid of visits.
They are afraid of vaccines, too.
There is a a certain [. and disappointing] % of folks that will refuse
a Covid 19 vaccine. Unreasonable fear.

I was responding to another comment (not by you) further up, I should have quoted it. I agree, driving to a testing site and being tested would be a non-worry.

Re: Bookings are coming in!
Stokely #3051199 06/26/20 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Stokely
Whatever my gut feeling may be on this, epidemiologists seem to be the ones saying "do more testing", while politicians seem to be making excuses why we don't need it.

Some politicians. One in particular but I'll stop here.

Just got a notice that the E.U. will be barring travelers from the USA (among other countries they deem to have "not controlled the coronavirus outbreak.")

I have the feeling most of you guys will be back at your jobs a long time before I will. My last gig was March 12.

Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3051208 06/26/20 11:21 PM
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Each of my three bands has exactly one gig this summer. Two gigs are at large outdoor venues, so I'm feeling okay about those, but one is at a nightclub. Even though it's a large club, this band typically draws a frenzied crowed, so any social distancing will be a foregone conclusion shortly after downbeat or they get liquored up, whichever comes first. We did insist that they provide an elevated stage for the band. I may just end up staying there all night.


"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing."
- George Bernard Shaw
Re: Bookings are coming in!
Moonglow #3051227 06/27/20 01:38 AM
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I just accepted a duo gig outdoors in an open-air environment. I am incredibly cautious and fastidious about distancing, yet this feels like an optimal environment for a public gig. I can ensure distance from the other player and from anyone who might be there. It will not draw a crowd. This will be my first and I am guessing only "real" gig in the old sense of the word, since March 15. I'm just taking it because I would be completely comfortable being in that spot if I weren't playing, and it's by the water, and so I figured I might as well keep some rapidly diminishing chops up and make a few bucks. I can't imagine taking any other gigs any time soon, except under these very specific circumstances.


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Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3051231 06/27/20 02:18 AM
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New cases locally here in Vero are now gaining very quickly over the last week. The core demographic is age 24-35, the primary vector appears to be bars and similar. Our Governor basically shut down drinking in bars today, which I think was probably the most-effective and least-invasive move available. We also are getting slammed by out-of-towners who come here to vacation and party.

Hospitalizations and deaths in our county -- though lagged behind new cases -- continue to thankfully decline. Plenty of open beds, ventilators, etc. Put differently, a heckuva lot more people are testing positive, but they tend to be younger and thus don't typically require hospitalization. Observed fatality rates are exceptionally low for this cohort.

The somewhat older folks (myself included) continue to keep a low profile, e.g. we do take-out vs. dine-in. We wear masks when we go to the grocery store. The real elderly are keeping a super-duper low profile. All good, considering.

Our town-funded live music gigs appear to be continuing for the time being. They are sold out way in advance. I've seen they do a great job of social distancing outdoors. The few alcohol-funded outdoor gigs we have later in the season will of course depend whether the no-drinking-in-bars order stays in place, or not.

Even with the recent spike in cases, I'd still take a well-managed outdoor gig and have zero concerns about getting infected, based on my previous experience.

Edit: the CDC's recent opinion that -- through horizontal antibody testing -- maybe 10x as many people have had this than actual positive cases reported sort of changed my thinking on the severity of this virus. I know plenty of folks who came down with a "gnarly flu" in Dec - Feb prior to any sort of organized testing. The consequence is that if you're not part of an at-risk cohort, you're probably going to be OK.

Last edited by cphollis; 06/27/20 03:01 AM. Reason: further thoughts?

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Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3051246 06/27/20 04:03 AM
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Originally Posted by cphollis
New cases locally here in Vero are now gaining very quickly over the last week. The core demographic is age 24-35, the primary vector appears to be bars and similar.
..
Edit: the CDC's recent opinion that -- through horizontal antibody testing -- maybe 10x as many people have had this than actual positive cases reported sort of changed my thinking on the severity of this virus. I know plenty of folks who came down with a "gnarly flu" in Dec - Feb prior to any sort of organized testing. The consequence is that if you're not part of an at-risk cohort, you're probably going to be OK.
Similar here. We have had a huge spike in Story County Iowa. Mostly in the 18-25 age group.

My County health department is saying the spike is mostly the college athletes returning for fall sports running amok. The University will do anything and everything to keep the athletic revenue stream protected being in the Big 12 so it's full steam ahead with practices for the fall. Some of it it is also the general 50% reopening..

Our cumulative cases are over 600 with 3 deaths, all from nursing homes.

Generally, deaths are still predominantly elderly, for which a vaccine will be mostly ineffective. So I believe the following will likely play out which is pretty pessimistic -- COVID-19 is here to stay and we'll need accept that herd immunity will be similar to herd immunity from the flu, and the death rate will end up being whatever we can achieve through therapeutics:

Covid Prediction - Leading epidemiologist Prof. Yehuda Carmeli (Summary: if you're under 50, you should be fine; if you're over 70, you're in trouble; between 50-70, mixed prospects)

Additionally, smoking raises the risk of death and ICU by 2.4x, so it's good to be a non smoker (The gov't won't advertise this this as we all know):

Covid-19 Smoking risk

Last edited by JazzPiano88; 06/27/20 04:09 AM.

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Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3051251 06/27/20 04:32 AM
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Originally Posted by cphollis
Edit: the CDC's recent opinion that -- through horizontal antibody testing -- maybe 10x as many people have had this than actual positive cases reported sort of changed my thinking on the severity of this virus. I know plenty of folks who came down with a "gnarly flu" in Dec - Feb prior to any sort of organized testing. The consequence is that if you're not part of an at-risk cohort, you're probably going to be OK.

This is not the logical conclusion from that position. They are not rewriting the timeline, merely the breadth of the impact. Otherwise we'd have seen deaths and hospitalizations at the same rate as now. This did not occur.


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Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3051252 06/27/20 04:33 AM
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