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Re: Bookings are coming in!
Stokely #3049095 06/16/20 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Stokely
Man, I'm envious cphollis...I'm in orlando and while most of our gigs have gone away, we still have some good ones left. I just can't do them. Not with cases rising and the at-risk people I live with, and the kids' lives Ive had to completely throttle this summer. It sucks. Right when our band got our best line-up. We are down to a trio since the lead singer is hesitant as well. I'm not sure the band will make it, it might be a year or more before i get back out there at our current rate. Just waiting and seeing and trying to stay busy at home. I cancelled my plans for upgrading my rig, sorry Nord...

I've been curbside at a couple stores and mask-wearing looks to be 20% at best just watching people go in and out while I cower in my car. Less mask than I saw a few weeks ago. Good luck, America.

I am familiar with the ' live and let live ' attitude.

However, due to the pandemic, and stressed health facilities,
its gambling with your health to not wear a mask in a store, gig [ surrounded by people], whatever confined area.

And wearing a mask is as simple as wearing your seat belt in your car while driving.

We have a few nearby counties [ valley] here in CA that did not mandate face coverings, did little prevention, and went ahead into business re-opening , whatever 'normal retail life style '.

These counties were not as densely populated and got an initial pause from Covid, and the hospitalization reporting was not as robust as SF and San Jose, etc.

There are similarities with our less populated valley towns and Indian River county and Vero Beach [ population 17,000].

As a result, the Covid 19 hospitalizations have spiked the past 2-3 weeks in our valley counties.

Don't feel you are on an island of non concern about community spread in tourist driven Florida.

Think long term, not about 2019. Wear your mask and take health related steps.

There is no vaccine. We are on our own and need to use our brains. This is not 2019.

KC Island
Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3049097 06/16/20 12:57 PM
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I just had 4 shows gone within a weeks time. This fuckin blows and we are about to be in phase 4 of NYS opening but the social distance rules will still kill music.


"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"


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Re: Bookings are coming in!
Outkaster #3049103 06/16/20 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Outkaster
I just had 4 shows gone within a weeks time. This fuckin blows and we are about to be in phase 4 of NYS opening but the social distance rules will still kill music.


I think we have to ' adapt ' to circumstances.

During other pandemics and WW's, much of the population adapted to the difficult circumstances.

Our grand parents understood this, and practiced the virtue of self sacrifice. This sense of community
{ shared self sacrifice, we are all in this mess together] helped navigate the country and states thru
the very difficult times.

Its hard to adapt and think long term, and fully understand consequences. Our grand parents did
and so should we.

I predict circumstances will be much improved 1 year from now, as vaccinations will finally be produced
in massive quantity for our large population. When I assert this with family, friend, they can't see ahead
1 year.

ts unrealistic to expect current circumstances to resolve itself in 1 week or 1 month of even a few months.

Last edited by GregC; 06/16/20 01:30 PM.
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Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3049109 06/16/20 01:51 PM
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Unfortunately I think with modern "news" and social media feeds tailored to show people what they want to hear--it's very difficult to get everyone to even agree with what the facts are, let alone agree on a common approach on how to deal with it. In other words, this "difficult situation" isn't even seen as such by a ton of people.

To make an extreme WWII analogy, we have a ton of people who think Pearl Harbor didn't happen. So there's no need to go to war.

I've said it before but Americans need to look around the world and see what has worked, is working, and what isn't. You don't always have to be a trailblazer.

Re: Bookings are coming in!
Stokely #3049114 06/16/20 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Stokely
Unfortunately I think with modern "news" and social media feeds tailored to show people what they want to hear--it's very difficult to get everyone to even agree with what the facts are, let alone agree on a common approach on how to deal with it. In other words, this "difficult situation" isn't even seen as such by a ton of people.

To make an extreme WWII analogy, we have a ton of people who think Pearl Harbor didn't happen. So there's no need to go to war.

I've said it before but Americans need to look around the world and see what has worked, is working, and what isn't. You don't always have to be a trailblazer.

I agree.

We should accept what science and research tell us. Thats factual and supported by evidence. Science has standards
and rules. Social media does not.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/people-getting-sick-coronavirus-spreading-115751594.html
Douglas Reed, Associate Professor of Immunology, University of Pittsburgh

Perhaps most striking, especially for myself as we contemplate how to reopen our church, is the example of the church choir in Skagit County, Washington.

A single individual singing at a choir practice infected 52 other people. Singing and loud vocalization in general can produce a lot of aerosols, and evidence
shows that some people are super-emitters of aerosols even during normal speech.

It’s likely that some infections in this incident occurred from droplets or direct contact, but the fact that one person was able to infect so many people strongly
suggests that airborne transmission was the driving factor in this outbreak.

Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3049115 06/16/20 02:14 PM
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Yeah unfortunately for many of us--churches and bars (for some, a bar is their church!) are a couple of the riskiest places. Expelling lots of air indoors is as bad as it gets. Gyms would be worse and I used to love going to the gym so that stinks. I know my mom's church has been doing drive-ins, so at least people can converse from car to car I guess and actually see people. I find zoom video pretty tiring and awful, it's the one thing I dislike about working from home.

Mostly I just hope my friends and folks I know in the music and service industries can make it through these times, and I hope people that are laid off from any industry can bounce back. The job market is terrible right now. As you say there is reason to be optimistic not only for a vaccine, but for better treatments as more is learned.

Re: Bookings are coming in!
Stokely #3049125 06/16/20 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Stokely
Yeah unfortunately for many of us--churches and bars (for some, a bar is their church!) are a couple of the riskiest places. Expelling lots of air indoors is as bad as it gets. Gyms would be worse and I used to love going to the gym so that stinks. d.

I use to be a gym rat, too. Somewhere, lets say 10 years ago, it hit me.

Assume I am frugal.

I have weights to lift at home, in the garage. I can knock out 30 pushups outside in the fresh air.

I run and bike outside. Sometimes I see neighbors and I stop at chat for a few minutes.

It must sound boring- its better if we adapt.

There is a silver lining.

Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3049136 06/16/20 04:42 PM
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We're going to have our first practice since before all this started this Thursday night, but it will not be in our guitar player's basement as it was before. We'll be having it at the other guitar player's shop (he works at a place that does high volume screen printing on shirts and other clothing). Lots of open space and can open up overhead doors to get wind blowing through, but no A/C and it's been in the 90s around here. I posted a pic on FB the other day when he was at work with a IR Thermometer showing 104 inside....so I guess I'll be dressing lightly for practice.


Dan

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Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3049146 06/16/20 05:10 PM
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Social media has made us a bit less, shall we say, resiliant than previous generations. Around my local area it breaks down two ways. One side, the one I occupy, has made the judgement call that a haircut isn't really worth your life or the life of your loved ones. The other side is out and about like nothing happened, tells people like me that I'm "living in fear" and sneers at you in the grocery store for wearing a mask. Posts on Facebook do a really good job of cranking up both sides, it seems....sometimes there really CAN be too much info.....

Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3049151 06/16/20 05:21 PM
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Characterizing it as wanting a haircut doesn't help. How about wanting to make a living so you don't lose your home and so that you can buy food? As businesses reopen, even where it's not required, I'm seeing most people wearing masks and using common sense social distancing. Even just walking around the neighborhood, folks will walk out into the street off the sidewalk to provide distance when we pass.


Dan

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Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3049155 06/16/20 05:29 PM
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Too much info, and too quick and unverified and unsourced.

I notice with my mom, who is in her mid-70s, that she still has the mindset that "I read it so it must be true". That used to be much more the case, a textbook or even a news story had to be sourced and checked (obviously even that is not 100%). These days, some random troll on twitter or someone smart enough to set up a youtube channel can appear quite professional indeed, and they can simply be making stuff up. Case in point that ludicrous "plandemic" vid put out by the woman who had "evidence" and sounded oh so scientific. That was all the rage in my mom's circle of facebook friends, it had all of them convinced. On glance at that woman's background and "credentials" was enough to tell you it was hogwash. (I did not watch it, because doing so gives money to the entity making the video, but I read the transcript.)

It's truly pathetic that people are being harassed for wearing masks. I know a couple people who have said they've had to endure comments and teasing about it. Ironically NOT wearing a mask would get you harassed big-time in China and probably Japan too (though they tend to be more polite!)

From hearing from many people in different states, seems like mask-wearing runs a big gamut. My estimate here for stores I've seen is maybe 40% are wearing them. Mostly people veer aside when out jogging/walking but I had one guy literally brush me as he ran by. I didn't hear him coming or I would have gone off into the grass since he wasn't going to....

Last edited by Stokely; 06/16/20 05:31 PM.
Re: Bookings are coming in!
Outkaster #3049157 06/16/20 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Outkaster
I just had 4 shows gone within a weeks time. This fuckin blows and we are about to be in phase 4 of NYS opening but the social distance rules will still kill music.


What social distancing? All my friends and other comments I've read online of people playing gigs again say clubs are packed, no one wearing masks and everybody is hanging all over each other. Everyone thinks it won't get them or it's not happening here so lets party!

Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3049165 06/16/20 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Stokely
It's truly pathetic that people are being harassed for wearing masks. I know a couple people who have said they've had to endure comments and teasing about it. Ironically NOT wearing a mask would get you harassed big-time in China and probably Japan too (though they tend to be more polite!)

Strange, I haven't heard a SINGLE case of somebody getting shamed for WEARING a mask. LOTS of cased of people getting shamed for NOT wearing one, including getting chased out of places by other patrons. One local radio show host said he was in his car by himself, and a woman pulled up next to him, honked and shook her finger at him pointing to her mask. He said he had a mask with him for when he got out, just no reason to wear it alone in the car.

Originally Posted by Docbop
What social distancing? All my friends and other comments I've read online of people playing gigs again say clubs are packed, no one wearing masks and everybody is hanging all over each other. Everyone thinks it won't get them or it's not happening here so lets party!

Funny and CA would seem to be one of those places that is gung ho about staying shut down and social distancing (if you watch the news - maybe that's unfair in REAL life). Yet, here, the gigs so far have mainly been outdoor and the few venues that have opened have taken out lots of tables and drastically limited how many people can be inside. A lot of venues are doing parking lot gigs where you can park every other space and sit in the spots between the cars and the band plays on the patio. A drive-in movie theater is doing concerts and a movie. Almost everyone is wearing masks everywhere I go.


Dan

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Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3049170 06/16/20 06:15 PM
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Not putting on a mask in public, especially indoors, is irresponsible, period...we know they are effective, especially combined with other measures. I doubt there's that many people getting "shamed" in either direction but I know of a few that have been harassed for wearing them. We know some store employees have been assaulted for trying to enforce store policy to put them on so this isn't a stretch. And it sounds like there are shamings going the other way. I have considerable less empathy with those to be honest. We are in a public health crisis. Bottom line, mask-wearing is much more likely to get us through the other side quicker than it is to slow down our recovery. Why not do it?

Rather than shaming patrons though, a better solutions is to reward businesses that enforce mask-wearing. That way there's no need for vigilantism and nobody gets "shamed" in either direction smile Costco is one place that is currently getting more of my money than before, for example.

Nobody is gung ho about being shut down. That's like saying I'm gung ho to go get my radiation treatments for cancer. This sucks for all of us but hopefully we are listening to those with some experience with pandemics in order to make the best decision possible.

Last edited by Stokely; 06/16/20 06:17 PM.
Re: Bookings are coming in!
GregC #3049171 06/16/20 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by GregC
Originally Posted by Outkaster
I just had 4 shows gone within a weeks time. This fuckin blows and we are about to be in phase 4 of NYS opening but the social distance rules will still kill music.


I think we have to ' adapt ' to circumstances.

During other pandemics and WW's, much of the population adapted to the difficult circumstances.

Our grand parents understood this, and practiced the virtue of self sacrifice. This sense of community
{ shared self sacrifice, we are all in this mess together] helped navigate the country and states thru
the very difficult times.

Its hard to adapt and think long term, and fully understand consequences. Our grand parents did
and so should we.

I predict circumstances will be much improved 1 year from now, as vaccinations will finally be produced
in massive quantity for our large population. When I assert this with family, friend, they can't see ahead
1 year.

ts unrealistic to expect current circumstances to resolve itself in 1 week or 1 month of even a few months.

Don't wait for a vaccine for too long. I work in a major hospital and it's a long way off and may not even work when it is released. I don't expect a week Greg but I am allowed to be mad about it. Our numbers are good in my region but this is a part of our life now, a pulminologist told me so in a meeting two weeks ago. Even in our hospital the virus is not talked about like it was two months ago. I still think striking fear into people doesn't work either and I work in public health in 11 counties in NYS. I hear it all and understand both sides of the issue.

Last edited by Outkaster; 06/16/20 07:33 PM.

"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"


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Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3049173 06/16/20 06:21 PM
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Speaking of vaccines, I would be very, very cautious of early vaccines for this thing. There is a LOT of political pressure to get one out there. Certainly anything that comes out in the states around October (which is not realistic in the slightest) would be looked at askance smile

I say this as someone who would like to shoot anti-vaxxers into the sun, because even worse than the non-mask-wearers, they are doing their best to ensure diseases like Measles make a comeback.

From what I read, the fastest vaccine ever put out there was for the Mumps, and that took over four years. Perhaps tech will help, but there's a lot of safety testing that needs time.

Striking fear is appropriate if there's a good chance it's something we should be fearful of. I get out of the water at the beach late in the day and when I have a cut on my leg, because now there's a better chance that I'll get bitten by a shark. I don't know that I will, but it's a larger risk. This situation is especially tough because of the lag (from contracting to symptoms to hospitalization...and then another one when it comes to reporting the data).

Last edited by Stokely; 06/16/20 06:25 PM.
Re: Bookings are coming in!
Stokely #3049174 06/16/20 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Stokely
Nobody is gung ho about being shut down. That's like saying I'm gung ho to go get my radiation treatments for cancer. This sucks for all of us but hopefully we are listening to those with some experience with pandemics in order to make the best decision possible.

"gung ho" was probably the wrong term to use. Didn't mean to imply people like it. I meant more aggressive about the shut down including being one of the first states to shut down and going as far as shutting off utilities to businesses, and things of that nature, also being very vocal against other states opening prematurely, though I understand the views of a politician being interviewed does not necessarily represent the views of the whole state.


Dan

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Re: Bookings are coming in!
Stokely #3049175 06/16/20 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Stokely
From hearing from many people in different states, seems like mask-wearing runs a big gamut. My estimate here for stores I've seen is maybe 40% are wearing them. ....

here in CA, each county is left to use state guidelines to ' mandate' face coverings or " not mandate face coverings '.

Here in Contra Costa county, population 1.1 million, face coverings are mandated when shopping, in retail etc.

In the grocery stores, retail, its announced every 5 minutes, 'if you walk in you must wear face covering, and if not, or you will be escorted out'.

As result, when ever I have to shop EVERYONE in the store is wearing a mask.

The county I am next to, San Joaquin county is loose on prevention.
There, the face coverings are simply ' recommended'. but NOT mandated/required.

As a result, the Covid 19 cases in San Joaquin have spiked the past 2 weeks. A 5-6% daily contagion growth rate.
Its one of the counties that our governor called out Monday for spiking Covid 19 growth rate.

I had a gig offer in Stockton [ San Joaquin ] starting Thursday.

I declined it.

My wife also teaches 3rd grade in San Joaquin county.
School year starts Aug 1. So far, the Covid 19 preventive steps in her
school are weak.

Her district sup is using ' no money ' and finger pointing county health for the excuses.

Re: Bookings are coming in!
J. Dan #3049178 06/16/20 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by J. Dan
Originally Posted by Stokely
Nobody is gung ho about being shut down. That's like saying I'm gung ho to go get my radiation treatments for cancer. This sucks for all of us but hopefully we are listening to those with some experience with pandemics in order to make the best decision possible.

"gung ho" was probably the wrong term to use. Didn't mean to imply people like it. I meant more aggressive about the shut down including being one of the first states to shut down and going as far as shutting off utilities to businesses, and things of that nature, also being very vocal against other states opening prematurely, though I understand the views of a politician being interviewed does not necessarily represent the views of the whole state.

Understood. Unfortunately nobody really knows the best approach, it's all educated (or not) guessing and the bad part is that there will be a lot of second-guessing whichever way it goes. If social distancing works, then it looks like we didn't need to social distance....

As far as schools...yeah. I don't see how schools, which are chaotically under-funded in some cases as it is, are going to be very organized or effective during this. My youngest is going to be starting high school and we may have to consider home schooling, much as I'm not in favor of that normally.

Last edited by Stokely; 06/16/20 06:28 PM.
Re: Bookings are coming in!
J. Dan #3049188 06/16/20 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by J. Dan
Originally Posted by Stokely
Nobody is gung ho about being shut down. That's like saying I'm gung ho to go get my radiation treatments for cancer. This sucks for all of us but hopefully we are listening to those with some experience with pandemics in order to make the best decision possible.

"gung ho" was probably the wrong term to use. Didn't mean to imply people like it. I meant more aggressive about the shut down including being one of the first states to shut down and going as far as shutting off utilities to businesses, and things of that nature, also being very vocal against other states opening prematurely, though I understand the views of a politician being interviewed does not necessarily represent the views of the whole state.


CA is a very large state and it has it's right leaning areas and areas in general have their mix of political views. Most of the right leaning areas are typical types, either rural area anti-governent types or the ultra rich. I've lived in Bay Area, close to Central CA, and SoCal grew up in L.A.. I also worked for awhile in Orange County the very southern part of CA which is the big right leaning ultra rich area. So a lot of diversity which is good and keeping one's eyes and ears open is very educational.

Re: Bookings are coming in!
Docbop #3049191 06/16/20 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Docbop
[quote=J. Dae.


CA is a very large state and it has it's right leaning areas and areas in general have their mix of political views. Most of the right leaning areas are typical types, either rural area anti-governent types or the ultra rich. I've lived in Bay Area, close to Central CA, and SoCal grew up in L.A.. I also worked for awhile in Orange County the very southern part of CA which is the big right leaning ultra rich area. So a lot of diversity which is good and keeping one's eyes and ears open is very educational.[/quote]


accurate depiction of diversity in our state of 40 million.

while Contra Costa is considered part of SF Bay Area, we are right next to San Joaquin, agricultural valley.

In our 3 town area, Brentwood, Oakley, Discovery Bay, there is a core group of anti science, hate gov't, conspiracy theory types.
They are vocal rednecks[ only term I can think of], and think all the events/facts of Covid 19 is a ton of BS.

Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3049214 06/16/20 10:43 PM
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I was trying to avoid stereotypes, but since you guys went there, you're assuming it's the crazy right wing who isn't wearing masks and social distancing. MO is a conservative state with lots of conservatives in the suburbs around the city of St. Louis and it appears I'm seeing a lot more masks and social distancing than you are seeing in CA, so maybe it's not so much a liberal vs conservative thing, but a MO vs CA thing. Food for thought.


Dan

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Re: Bookings are coming in!
Stokely #3049230 06/16/20 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Stokely
[quo

As far as schools...yeah. I don't see how schools, which are chaotically under-funded in some cases as it is, are going to be very organized or effective during this. My youngest is going to be starting high school and we may have to consider home schooling, much as I'm not in favor of that normally.

our grammar or grade school year begins around Aug 5. Variation of start date by school district.

We stay up to date on the spread by town, by county, and what the county actually does based on conditions.

My wife and her school friends are careful, as you would expect. At the first sign of trouble, in the new school year, the state will close the schools.

currently, the 'guidance/action ' is based on 'reactive ' circumstances. No face coverings recovers for the children.
No change in crowding 30 children into a class room with 1 teacher. A nearby box of Kleenex.

Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3049232 06/16/20 11:57 PM
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To me wearing a mask is shows respect and concern for my fellow human beings.

Just hit me it's like think it was Pascal who mathematically proved you should believe in God. Basically the benefits of believing are even if there isn't a God than not believing and it turns out there is a God. Don't get mad if I didn't word this correctly it's been a long time since I heard this in school. But I see wearing a mask is the same, the benefit of wearing one outweighs the (remote) possibility the virus is a hoax.

Re: Bookings are coming in!
J. Dan #3049243 06/17/20 12:56 AM
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Originally Posted by J. Dan
I was trying to avoid stereotypes, but since you guys went there, you're assuming it's the crazy right wing who isn't wearing masks and social distancing. MO is a conservative state with lots of conservatives in the suburbs around the city of St. Louis and it appears I'm seeing a lot more masks and social distancing than you are seeing in CA, so maybe it's not so much a liberal vs conservative thing, but a MO vs CA thing. Food for thought.

Oh for sure - there's plenty of dumb on all parts of the political spectrum smile


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Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3049259 06/17/20 03:07 AM
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So I quit my first band gig over this today....a trio that I had played one gig with before the Black Plague 2.0 hit, but had several bookings a month throughout the rest of the year.....they had an offer for July 3rd, WAYYY too soon to make me comfortable. It was a VERY succint exchange. Got a text from the BL that just said, "You in or out?" I sent him a long text explaining that, as much as I loved playing with the two of them (and I've played with both guys in a variety of situations for YEARS) that my wife and I talked it over and seeing as both of us are a bit high risk (I'm on blood thinners, she's over 65 with asthma, and we're BOTH cancer survivors), that I would have to bow out. His response was simply "Ok". That was it. Not, "Ok, cool, I understand, we'll just go another way, be safe", IOW, what anyone I figured was a friend would say (and I really felt that both these guys were friends of mine), just "Ok". Ah well, like my wife says, I shouldn't let it hurt my feelings and maybe I overestimated our relationship, but it stung a little bit.....

Re: Bookings are coming in!
cphollis #3049260 06/17/20 03:13 AM
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I wouldn't read too much into a text message. I've had relationships end from misinterpretation of a text message. If it bothered you, call him.


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Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.
Re: Bookings are coming in!
J. Dan #3049264 06/17/20 03:36 AM
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Originally Posted by J. Dan
I wouldn't read too much into a text message. I've had relationships end from misinterpretation of a text message. If it bothered you, call him.
Agree

Re: Bookings are coming in!
area51recording #3049265 06/17/20 03:53 AM
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Originally Posted by area51recording
Originally Posted by J. Dan
I wouldn't read too much into a text message. I've had relationships end from misinterpretation of a text message. If it bothered you, call him.
Agree

Indeed - I'd have read the 'Ok' as him being disappointed but respecting you enough to not say more...


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Re: Bookings are coming in!
Dave Holloway #3049271 06/17/20 04:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Holloway
Originally Posted by area51recording
Originally Posted by J. Dan
I wouldn't read too much into a text message. I've had relationships end from misinterpretation of a text message. If it bothered you, call him.
Agree

Indeed - I'd have read the 'Ok' as him being disappointed but respecting you enough to not say more...

Yep, what these guys said. Not everyone puts the same effort into the niceties of written communication, particularly SMS or similar. It can be a mistake to measure others' intent by our own standards.

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