Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG)

[cjfox]

Thanks Markyboard, I was sharing my experience. I have lots of keyboards and lots of pedals, and I was experimenting. I have a 1962 Hammond A100, so I know what I like in swell pedal response. My Nord electro has a menu item to select pedals, which allows you to choose the curve you want. Some of the responses here are like music teachers I have had who look at the notes on paper and say it won't work because it breaks the rules, but I say it sounds good when I play it.

[Markyboard]

Thank you cjfox. Rather than further guessing on my part I emailed Crumar and got 2 very useful replies back from Andrea with specific details. I've updated the Pedal Spreadsheet with all Crumar's expression type pedals.

 

But for those looking for a quick answer all Crumar expression pedals use 10K linear pots with wiper on ring (Type II). Their clonewheel organs are compatible with this type pedal. Hope this helps anyone that may be interested.

[mdh25]

In regards to allowing the pianos to be played on the lower manual issue:

 

 

Please, please make this happen. It would make it SO much more comfortable to those using the upper and lower manual setups to be able to play the additional piano voices on the lower manual (and/or the upper too with possible octave shifts?) I've suggested this in previous posts:

 

 

Thank you!

-Mark

 

 

 

Hey all. Just had a crazy idea....

 

Do you think that if there was an option to use both manuals for EPiano / A Piano as an "extended" range keyboard set? This way the full 88 notes would be possible to play without changing octave settings? I"m not sure the best way to handle this, but possibly only the top and bottom "extra" octaves could be active on the "other" manual?

 

Thoughts?

-Mark

 

 

 

 

Hello group.

 

I am a happy owner of the Crumar Mojo 61, and most recently acquired the 61B lower manual. This is a great product, and couldn't be easier to use. Feels great, and I am very happy with it and how it feels. However, there is one small thing that would make it even better.

 

I understand that that it is only possible to play one sound at a time - either organ on upper and lower manuals, or additional voices (epiano/piano/clav) on upper manual only.

 

Is there an option to make the epianos/clav work when playing on lower manual as well? It would make the playing position much more comfortable in my opinion on the lower while in "piano mode." Seems like this could be possible to trigger the same note on both manuals.

 

Additionally, is there a volume matching section in the editor to balance out the levels between each additional sound? I feel like I can't find a volume setting on the master that works for me for all sounds. I'm mainly switching between organ and epianos & piano. I am using the expression pedal for organ, but does not apply on the additional voices.

 

I've searched the manual (pun sort-of-intended) and this forum, but no luck finding any info on this.

 

Thanks very much!

-Mark

[NTL2009]

In regards to allowing the pianos to be played on the lower manual issue:

 

 

Please, please make this happen. It would make it SO much more comfortable to those using the upper and lower manual setups to be able to play the additional piano voices on the lower manual (and/or the upper too with possible octave shifts?) I've suggested this in previous posts:

 

 

Thank you!

-Mark

 

Wouldn't you be able to do this by setting the lower manual to transmit on MIDI channel #1? Normally, the lower manual sounds of the Mojo61 are set to receive CH#2, bass pedals sounds receive CH #3, and the upper manual (and pianos), receive CH#1. So I would think setting the lower manual to transmit on CH #1 would do this. Might not be convenient, depending on the lower manual access to channel changes, but I think there are also boxes that do this with a push button.

[The Key]

I just got (on quarantine temporary insanity, actually) the reverse-key black edition of the 61.

 

I own a DMC-122/Gemini combo and love it. The sounds are incredible. But I wanted something more portable for gigging out if that ever becomes a thing again!

 

A lot of people here have talked about using the drawbars or an external MIDI controller to control parameters like the clav pickup settings, or the depth and speed of the effects. I thought this was going to be just as simple as it is on the DMC-122. With that, you just assign numbers in the MIDI map to whatever the drawbars are already assigned to. So according to the MIDI numbers in the manual, I assigned the clav pickup settings to 12 and 13, the first two drawbars, and the speed and depth of effects 1 & 2 to 16-20, the last four drawbars. They're having no effect at all, and I'm wondering what I'm missing. I'd be super-bummed if this isn't possible, because on a monotimbral board, those drawbars are just hanging out doing nothing in EP mode.

 

Another question: has anyone downloaded the Venice Grand to replace the onboard piano on the 61?

[ChazKeys]

Double check the Mojo Editor to make sure those Clav settings are actually mapped to those numbers.

[ZioGuido]

You can assign MIDI CC numbers only if you intend to control the Mojo61 from an external unit. So, now that you've assigned some CC's, you should connect something to the MIDI inputs or to the USB-MIDI port (I like to use an old Korg nanoKontrol) and use that to control the parameters you've assigned.

 

And no, the Mojo61 can't load extra sample libraries like the Gemini.

[NTL2009]

Double check the Mojo Editor to make sure those Clav settings are actually mapped to those numbers.

 

I see Guido replied before I saw the questions/comments. As he points out, the Mojo 61 does not respond to these Web-Editor assigned CC#s if they are internally generated, only externally.

 

I think it would be a benefit to users if this was changed - the 9 drawbars are just sitting there, asking to be used! The Clav has 4 filter switches, 2 pickup switches, and a damper setting, so the first 7 drawbars could be used for live performance, with 2 to spare. That sure makes playing the Clav a LOT more usable, and fun! Guido, can this be part of a future upgrade?

 

I've been working on a little DIY module for this, (plus much more: more VB3 presets, presets for the other keys, direct access to the Effect settings for live performance changes, and the option to store all this with the presets), based on the little Pro-Micro Arduino board used in the Crumar open-source D9U. It should be very easy for someone with even limited DIY skills to build, there are inexpensive display and switch modules ( < $5, as is the Pro-Micro) that connect with just a few wires. I'll post an update when I get to a point to share, I've been distracted by another project. But the display makes it far more usable than the Korg nanoKontrol like I described above (Post 3035949), but that works.

 

Related to that, it seems the USB port on the Mojo 61 does not transmit any of the internally generated CC values? These only appear on the 5-Pin-DIN MIDI OUT? It would be helpful to have these CC#'s and panel switch changes transmitted over the USB port, so that an external box could respond. Guido, any chance for that in an update as well (or am I missing a setting for this?).

 

Playing with my "beta mode" module, it sure is a lot more fun to play those other instruments when you can jump in and have direct control over effects, pickups, filters, etc. I need to finish it!

 

One more thing - the D9U is open source, but I haven't found a group that is active in making changes to it, or building on that base. Do you know of any "communities" of programmers/DIY-ers for that? If not, is there a good place for me to start one?

 

Regards, and thanks for producing the Mojo 61 - I enjoy playing it every day.

[Delaware Dave]

The Clav has 4 filter switches, 2 pickup switches, and a damper setting, so the first 7 drawbars could be used for live performance, with 2 to spare. That sure makes playing the Clav a LOT more usable, and fun! Guido, can this be part of a future upgrade?

I have the Gemini module and this is exactly what I do for the Clav. So how I would use switches on a real Clav is exactly how I mapped the first 7 sliders on my PC3.

[ChazKeys]

I had a D9U for a while and made some simple modifications to the code - mainly different Midi channels. Happy to share those with you if you PM me. The DIY module sounds very interesting. I am currently using a NanoKontrol 1 for the Gemini, it's a great solution but I want drawbars. I'm still holding out for an old XK1 to use as a controller (anyone in the UK got one to sell?) - D9X is a bit pricey and I need a waterfall keyboard.

[Delaware Dave]

I had a D9U for a while and made some simple modifications to the code - mainly different Midi channels. Happy to share those with you if you PM me. The DIY module sounds very interesting. I am currently using a NanoKontrol 1 for the Gemini, it's a great solution but I want drawbars. I'm still holding out for an old XK1 to use as a controller (anyone in the UK got one to sell?) - D9X is a bit pricey and I need a waterfall keyboard.

I use a voce midi drawbar. maps pretty nicely to the gemini module.....

 

link

[The Key]

You can assign MIDI CC numbers only if you intend to control the Mojo61 from an external unit. So, now that you've assigned some CC's, you should connect something to the MIDI inputs or to the USB-MIDI port (I like to use an old Korg nanoKontrol) and use that to control the parameters you've assigned.

 

And no, the Mojo61 can't load extra sample libraries like the Gemini.

 

Yeah, add me to the people saying that this doesn't make a lot of sense. The drawbars are just sitting there unused in EP mode. The appeal of the 61 is that it's one lightweight board good for playing live; why leave off such an obvious advantage and have people hook up an external module?

 

Crumar should just do a simple update. Clav pickup controls and speed/depth for effects on drawbars 1-6.

[Jazz+]

It would be wonderful if the drawbars could be active to edit the presets in real-time.

Please

[AnotherScott]

It would be wonderful if the drawbars could be active to edit the presets in real-time.

Of course, real tonewheel organs didn't permit real-time drawbar manipulation of their presets, either. But I can see where it could sometimes be convenient to be able to do it.

 

My bigger issue was the reverse situation on the VR-09. There was no way to hit a button and just have the drawbars be "live." As a result, whenever you wanted to move them, you were almost always moving them from the "wrong" position, and the drawbars wouldn't necessarily reflect your actual sound unless you manually moved all nine of them!

[Jazz+]

When would it be an advantage to not be able to edit drawbar presets in real-time? It makes no practical sense other than as a dogmatic cling to the inefficient.

The Electro allows real-time edit of presets.

[AnotherScott]

When would it be an advantage to not be able to edit drawbar presets in real-time? It makes no practical sense other than as a dogmatic cling to the inefficient.

The Electro allows real-time edit of presets.

As I said, I can see where it would sometimes be convenient.

[Jazz+]

Can you think of a time when it would be inconvenient? When would it ever be a disadvantage?

[AnotherScott]

Well, if you're playing a preset, and--without changing the sound--you want to set the drawbars up for the next sound you intend to play, then yeah, you wouldn't want altering the drawbars to affect the current preset. Traditional B3 players who have multiple sets of drawbars per manual may be more comfortable working that way.

[Noah DC]

For what it's worth (and to be clear, I have not yet tried this particular Mojo 61 MIDI cc connection), I purchased two first editions of the Korg NanoKontrol a few years back for about 30 bucks on Ebay. They fit right on top of the Mojo - seems like an easy and extremely cheap workaround.

[Delaware Dave]

Works differently than the Gemini module; i can pull up a preset and immediately change any drawbars on the fly. What i cant do is change drawbars, leave the organ, then go back to the organ and hàve the gemini play the drawbars from the last position that they were in when I left the organ. Whenever i go back to the organ setup it sets up the drawbars according to the preset. I then have to touch/wiggle all nine drawbars in order to play the current position of fthe drawbars.

[Jazzmammal]

Guido, I have the 61 with the separate lower manual. it was mentioned here a couple of months ago that there might be an update coming that would make the 61/lower manual combo work like the standard double manual Mojo by mapping the Piano's to the lower manual as opposed to when I want a piano it's upper manual only and the lower manual is dead. Any chance of that happening?

 

Bob

[drawback]

I hate to say it, but the answer to all this perpetual whining (mine included) is "workaround, workaround, workaround." The things Mojo61 owners have been pining for (since introduction, mind you) will not happen with this model, and the next one will not be available until every possible option is squeezed out of this one. Not unusual, not a criticism; it never really was what many wanted it to be, and has grown long in the tooth while trying to appease.

[Jazz+]

Do you speak for the company? It's not whining, it's hoping to make a good thing even better. Since the Mojo61 has only two presets and only a single set of drawbars and only a single manual, it's not unreasonable to want to be able to edit the drawbars after selecting the preset (Nord, Hammond SK1, etc). That seems more useful for me than the current Mojo61 design that allows for when I'm playing a preset, and--without changing the sound--I can only set the drawbars up for the next sound I intend to play.

[Jazzmammal]

Yeah, I'm just making suggestions that's all. I've read and watched vids about the Mojo since it was first released. I look at it as a literal B3 replacement, and of course everybody knows a B3 is "just" a B3. I knew what the Mojo can and can't do when I bought the 61 and lower manual add on. As a clone it is the best I've had so far and that's my main use for it but if more functionality can be added as an update, great. With the gigging situation being what it is all this is moot now anyway.

 

Bob

[Jazz+]

Hi, well they added a sustain pedal to the organ, all kinds of work around switches, a Rhodes, a Wurlitzer, a clav, so it"s not really literal.

[AnotherScott]

Hi, well they added a sustain pedal to the organ, all kinds of work around switches, a Rhodes, a Wurlitzer, a clav, so it"s not really literal.

Luckily, not being able to do EVERY non-literal enhancement someone might want hasn't meant he has been unwilling to do ANY of them. ;-)

 

it's not unreasonable to want to be able to edit the drawbars after selecting the preset (Nord, Hammond SK1, etc). That seems more useful for me than the current Mojo61 design that allows for when I'm playing a preset, and--without changing the sound--I can only set the drawbars up for the next sound I intend to play.

Yet the people who prefer the other method should have models THEY can buy and be happy with, too. I guess the best would be for it to be a user-settable option. I wonder if any models have that?

 

Personally, I don't like working with drawbars that are half right and half wrong, so on a Mojo, I'd be inclined to just invoke the live positioning when I want to do manual manipulation anyway. But that's part of the appeal of the moving drawbars of a Dexibell J7 or (for something less traditional) the LED strips of the Vox Continental. Presets can be edited in real-time as you'd like, but the starting positions always reflect the recalled sound so they are always all in the "right" position.

[The Key]

Can anyone explain what's different about the Mojo 61 keyboard from a standard Fatar? I played the Mojo with one hand and the DMC-122 with the other and the Mojo is WAY springier. Way more fun to play. The keys just bounce right back.

 

I've heard that Crumar modified the Fatar keybeds (juicier springs) or switched to Doepfer's organ-focused keybeds.

[HammondDave]

I saw the Mojo 61 new Leslie tweaks somewhere in the forum and can't find them. Could someone please post them again for me? Thanks. David

[Kurt W]

Can anyone explain what's different about the Mojo 61 keyboard from a standard Fatar? I played the Mojo with one hand and the DMC-122 with the other and the Mojo is WAY springier. Way more fun to play. The keys just bounce right back.

 

I've heard that Crumar modified the Fatar keybeds (juicier springs) or switched to Doepfer's organ-focused keybeds.

Having a Mojo61 my opinion is that the springs are softer, less springier than the Fatar TP8O in Nord Stage 3 Compact and Doepfer D3M. I think the modifications done by Crumar is softer springs and maybe lifting the key sensor boards beneath the keys a millimeter or so closer to the keys to get a slightly higher trigger point. The big difference are the springs. There is not much else to do to modify a TP8O if anything.

[HammondDave]

But boy, it feels so goooooood....