Yamaha YC61 Announced

[ChazKeys]

While I'm here, I'll add that I've fiddled around with electric piano sounds enough to have discovered that, as I mentioned in the earlier review regarding the clav, the amplifier/cabinet simulations are the key. I now have a couple of really playable Wurli patches that approach the quality of those on the Vox Continental.

 

Maybe its the same Wurly samples as the CP73/88. I use Wurly Bright on the CP with a tad of drive. Very playable with bite and bark when you play hard. But there's is plenty going on at lower velocities.

 

I agree there are a lot more features but its horses for courses and if you need to use your own samples then its the Electro, though I wonder how many people actually use that feature. The Nord sample library on the other hand will be a big draw for many users. One thing I like about the Yamaha additional sounds is that they are sound good without much tweaking. On the Nord if you install samples from their library you have to make some adjustments such as envelope and effects. Not a biggy but you might find the brass sound you just uploaded to your Nord a bit uninspiring till you edit it.

 

If it's pitch and mod wheels you need or iPad integration then its YC. As a controller the YC is a clear winner but with careful programming the Electro 5/6 can both be used as a controller to play instruments on 2 separate channels. The ability on the E5 to set a separate Midi channel for the lower split was useful. You could also use the upper split as well by turning its volume down.

 

Are you able to comment on the action compared to the Nord Electro?

[niacin]

Maybe its the same Wurly samples as the CP73/88. I use Wurly Bright on the CP with a tad of drive. Very playable with bite and bark when you play hard. But there's is plenty going on at lower velocities.

Are you able to comment on the action compared to the Nord Electro?

.

 

Yeh there's Bright Wurly, Warm Wurly and Wide Wurly patches familiar from the CP/MODX

 

In case you missed my comments a few pages back: "The key action is really sweet, in the Anderton's Youtube review Jack described it as a luxurious synth action and I'd agree with that, notice on that video how easily he plays piano and electric piano runs with clean even dynamics. It's fast but not springy like the Fatar action in the SK1 or Electros, and a step up in terms of dynamic control from the Korg Vox Continental, which is pretty sweet itself imho. And you can still use all your Hammond technique and tricks (or not, maybe skip the Emerson knife trick, lol)." So I'm really accustomed to the SK1 which has the same action as the Electro, but the Yamaha action is as good for organ and way better for piano.

 

I also notice playing conga style i.e. percussively, on a real Hammond basically triggering the 9 contacts without sounding much of the actual tonewheel notes being played, the Yamaha does a better job than the SK1, which tends to sound more, imo a little too much, of the tonewheels.

[ChazKeys]

Cheers for reposting that info. That sounds like it could be a deal breaker. The Fatar action in the Electro and the Legend always felt a bit too heavy or firm. Let's hope the UK price for the YC comes down a bit more.

[Spider76]

I just dont think it will sell even if the action is superior to the Nord Electro. Who is going to pay the extra £400.

in the U.S., the YC61 is $200 cheaper than the Electro.

 

Yes from what I read here and in other forums, US prices for Nords are absolutely crazy, I'm amazed that they sell at all over there...a real testament to the success of their business model.

Here in EU they surely are expensive but not prohibitively so, and yes the YC61 is 200 more then the E6D73, and 400 (ykes!) more than the 61... it will be a tough market for them if they don't lower prices. But then again, I haven't seen one available anywhere yet, so these are still "launch" prices which will probably go down as soon as the thing is in the shops.

[dazzjazz]

The YC looks and sounds like a pretty useful board for many situations. Will have to go play one and check it out.

[AnotherScott]

I also notice playing conga style i.e. percussively, on a real Hammond basically triggering the 9 contacts without sounding much of the actual tonewheel notes being played, the Yamaha does a better job than the SK1, which tends to sound more, imo a little too much, of the tonewheels.

This may be related to an observation I made a while back, that the SK1's key click is more percussive, whereas Nord's is a more authentic spittier "smush."

[niacin]

For those of you heading off to try the YC61, out of the box the Leslie on fast isn't good and on settings with the Leslie amp drive cranked it's worse, press: settings - sound - rotary speaker - speed - horn fast, and adjust to taste, I have the horn's fast setting down at 378.5.

[dazzjazz]

What"s the street price in Australia Niacin?

[niacin]

Darren, AU$2799, here:

 

https://www.bettermusic.com.au/yamaha-yc61-keyboard

 

or

 

https://www.australianpianowarehouse.com.au

 

These two have it in stock, there may be others, not sure, the price is firm atm as it's a new product but I'd expect some haggle room if you can wait a bit, not sure whether it'll meet your expectations on the Hammond front.

[AnotherScott]

I'm really accustomed to the SK1 which has the same action as the Electro, but the Yamaha action is as good for organ and way better for piano.

The Fatar action in the Electro and the Legend always felt a bit too heavy or firm.

Between personal experience and what I've read, it seems that while all of the following use the Fatar TP8O, the Electro and Legend are more heavily sprung than the rtoical version used in SK1 and original Numa Organ (among others), while the Numa Organ 2 and Mojo61 are more lightly sprung.

[rogs]

So I pulled the trigger and picked up my YC61 a couple of days ago. Still finding my way around, but it seems like a lovely board so far.

 

The keyboard action is really good IMHO. Much lighter and 'smoother' than the Nords I have tried. ..And to finally clear up the key size discussion -

Yes, the keys are Yamaha 'synth size' .. so the octave is 160mm (or 159mm if you measure key edge to key edge).

The keys are also shorter than my P105 piano keys .... the white keys are 138mm long (as opposed to 147mm on the P105) and the black keys are 90mm as against 95mm

 

The semi weighting 'feel' is very much like the better quality Yamaha synth keys --- so, more like the Motif/Montage 61 note FSX keyboards, rather than the cheaper MOX/MOXF6 keys

 

It seems a bit strange playing piano on a waterfall keyboard, but a combination of decent weighting and selectable velocity curves make it very playable for pianos and EPs.

Do the keys feel like an original Hammond waterfall? ... Well, it's been a while, but I don't recall even thinking of being able to play piano parts on a C3, so no, not really very much like a Hammond.

But it dos feel like a 'proper' waterfall - which is nice!

 

As others have said, the default Leslie speeds are not right, and need quite a bit of tweaking. I'm still trying to work out what the scales for the rotor acceleration and deceleration mean? ... It goes from 0.21 to 2.00 - with 0.21 being the longest time?

It's certainly not in seconds --- not sure quite what it represents? (I've probably missed something obvious)

 

For anyone who is interested in what the 'raw' vibrato and chorus sound like, I've posted 3 short .wav files to illustrate what a single note - a major third and a triad sound like, pressing V1,V2,V3, C1,C2,and C3 in turn...

 

www.jp137.com/las/Single.note.off.V1.V2.V3.C1.C2.C3.off..WAV

www.jp137.com/las/Triad.off.V1.V2.V3.C1.C2.C3.off..WAV

www.jp137.com/las/Major.third.off.V1.V2.V3.C1.C2.C3.off..WAV

 

Each file is about 5MB.

 

So - still lots to learn, but so far I'm impressed. And it looks to be nicely built throughout ... (and so it should be at the current price )

[Adan]

In terms of getting a clear picture of what it sounds like, this is the best video I've found so far:

 

 

It's a Yamaha vid, so don't expect an objective "review" from Yancy. In fact his comments are pretty useless. But I got a better listen to the sounds from this than anything else on YouTube.

 

At about 12:30 he compares the "pre-drive" distortion with the amp distortion on a Hammond sound. Obviously very different effects. Can't say I love the amp distortion on the YC, but I wouldn't use it much anyway.

 

Getting closer to pulling the trigger on this as an upgrade from my VR09. Looks like I'll have a series of outdoor band gigs this summer for which a lightweight all in one gig board is the ideal tool.

[Adan]

 

www.jp137.com/las/Single.note.off.V1.V2.V3.C1.C2.C3.off..WAV

www.jp137.com/las/Triad.off.V1.V2.V3.C1.C2.C3.off..WAV

www.jp137.com/las/Major.third.off.V1.V2.V3.C1.C2.C3.off..WAV

 

 

Thanks for posting, that's very helpful. I'm not a C/V expert, but I can tell good from lousy, and that's clearly on the right side of the line. Fits with my opinion of the YC as a worthy Hammond clone: not among the best, but very useable even to discriminating ears. The appeal is in the package as a whole, including the keybed, which by all reports is one that those who don't love Fatar might prefer.

[kenheeter]

I'm thinking I'm going to get one of these. Thanks for posting the C/V stuff, it really helps. I think this thing sounds very promising.......

[kenheeter]

Not available yet in Canada but I think I'll get in line.....

[conundrum]

I think the pricing is going to be a bit ugly.

[kenheeter]

Niacin, the rotary sim seems a bit weak compared to Nord or Mojo. I can't see a mic distance adjustment in the manual. What are your thoughts?

[niacin]

Niacin, the rotary sim seems a bit weak compared to Nord or Mojo. I can't see a mic distance adjustment in the manual. What are your thoughts?

 

The mic distance isn't adjustable. You can select mono or stereo and tweak the level of each rotor, the tone setting of the Leslie cabinet, and the EQ. The other problem with the Leslie is a beating that occurs when you turn the drive up and pull the top drawbars, but again adjusting the cabinet tone, rotor levels, and most importantly the Leslie horn tremolo speed, which is way too fast out of the box, has fixed that and got me something I'm happy with. So now I spend time playing rather than find myself trying to tweak the sound to try to fix something that's doing my head in. I haven't had a chance to put it next to my Gemini (Mojo) but you can customize pretty much everything in the Gemini, the Yamaha far less so. YMMV. If you can't find a happy place tweaking the rotor levels, cabinet tone and EQ it's probably not for you. It took me some time at home plus two gigs to learn that the Nord organ isn't for me. I do think we're lucky there are plenty of nice options in the clonewheel+ category these days - Hammond SK1, Nord, Mojo/Gemini, Vox, this new Yamaha, Roland VR730 - though none of them really sound like my 122.

[kenheeter]

I've owned lots of Nords, still have a Stage EX and a Stage 2 EX but the Mojo/Gemini is so good that I can't enjoy the organs on the Nords any more. It's encouraging to me that you like the YC61 even though you have a Gemini. I still think I'm going to jump for a YC61 when they are finally available in Canada. Your observations really help. Cheers, Ken

[Adan]

Got my YC61 yesterday, just in time for a gig later today. Here's some first impressions.

 

To cut to the chase, though it's not the best Hammond clone money can buy, but it's a great all-in-one lightweight gigging board with few flaws.

 

First, to frame my point of reference, I got it primarily to replace my VR09. I've gotten tremendous use out of my VR for rehearsals, jams, quick & dirty gigs. I've used it more than any other keyboard in recent years. Roland carved a great and unique niche with the VR, and they did a good job with it, but with some glaring deficiencies, foremost of which is the really bad keybed. Despite my overall satisfaction with the VR, the chance to upgrade from it, and in particular the keybed, is something I was bound to jump at.

 

Any review of the YC has to start with the keybed. Somewhere early in this thread I expressed confidence Yamaha would do a great job with the keys, and they have. As Niacin said, the keybed is Montage quality. Easy to play even at the backs of the keys. Buttery smooth and quiet, very much in contrast with the springy feel of Fatar. The interesting thing is that it is not optimized for organ, but rather as a compromise between organ and piano. The keys are shaped more like piano than Hammond keys. They work well enough for organ, but they also feel great for pianos, very easy to play with feel and dynamics. In my opinion, it's a great achievement and one of the main reasons to like the YC.

 

A significant caveat on the keys: they're smaller than standard, and you'll notice it the moment you start playing. I think the question for most people is whether you'll still notice it 5 minutes after you start playing. I have no problem adapting. But for some people this will be an issue, particularly if you're going back and forth between standard keys and have trouble recalibrating.

 

Also, there is no high trigger mode for organ. Organ sounds trigger about 10 mm below top. While I don't find this to be a major impediment, it does make it harder to skate and bounce the way you can on a real Hammond or on clones with high trigger.

 

I won't delve deeply into sounds in this post. Most folks are familiar with Yamaha's AP and EP sounds. I've long favored their APs, so having them on the YC, and so playable even from semi-weighted keys, is a joy. I'm ok with the EPs, though I would take Korg's best over Yamaha's any day. But it's clear these are a big step up from the VR. Not surprisingly, there some good DX patches.

 

There's a nice and useful selection of synth patches in the "others" category. Good enough to get you through some cover band gigs if you're not being too picky about authenticity. The EG and Filter knobs are handy here though they won't make you think VA synth.

 

As for the clone part of it, I'm still evaluating this so not ready to render a complete judgment. Like many of us, I ponder the details of Hammond clones way beyond what is healthy or useful. I have a Mojo 61 and B3X on Ipad. Is the YC as good? My early assessment is, no, it's not. But it's very good! Better in person than I expected based on listening to YouTube vids. It's got a very satisfying attack thunk that evokes a real Hammond moreso than other clones, the C/V and percussion sound very good to my ears, and the "pre-drive" adds a nice grit. My early feelings about the leslie sim is that while it's certainly useable and a step up from the VR, it's not among the most convincing I've heard. But it's good enough that only clone afficionados will care.

 

The UI is incredibly easy and intuitive, both the panel controls and the deeper adjustments. Very little need to read the manual. The controls are logical and easy to tweak on the fly.

 

I spent just a little time with it connected to Ipad. I'm having a problem with B3X, it plays fine for a while then just goes silent even though still connected. I'll try to diagnose the problem when I have more time. hut I can report the drawbars controlled B3X just fine. Neo Soul integrated perfectly, no issues there.

 

Is the YC an Electro killer? Speaking for myself, I definitely prefer it over the Electro. I was never a big fan of the Fatar action as implemented in the Electro. It handles organ ok, albeit with too much stiffness, but for pianos I always felt I was fighting it. With the YC there is less fightin', more groovin'. And in my subjective view the APs and EPs of the YC have the edge over Nord. As for the clone engines, that's an interesting comparison, one I don't think I could make unless I had them side by side. But it's definitely close enough that I wouldn't be pining for the Nord while playing the YC. But Electro-to-YC is not all apples. There's still reasons, such as the sample library, why someone might prefer the Electro.

 

In conclusion, this is a keeper. For the price, it should be twice as good as the VR09. And it is. If you can come to terms with the smaller keys (I easily can), the YC is a fantastic one board gigging solution.

[ElmerJFudd]

Thanks for sharing, some excellent insight and answers the question regarding wether the action was going to be more MODX or Montage in quality. So definitely more focused on being an all in one than a clone with extra sounds. Priced significantly above the VR09 and VR730 - but worth checking out to see if it"s stronger in the areas where it matters to oneself.

[Adan]

So definitely more focused on being an all in one than a clone with extra sounds. .

 

Yes, that's a good way of putting it.

 

I've never laid hands on a VR730. I'm sure the keybed is way better than the VR09. The guts are the same, which means, for instance, no effects on the left side of split. The APs on the VR just don't compete with the YC, imo. And I think as a clone the YC is a step above the VR. So it's hard for me to see an argument that the YC isn't worth the extra $500 over the VR.

 

The VR730 does have 73 keys, which makes such a big difference for piano. Given how the YC positions itself as equally balanced between organ and piano, it's a little perplexing that there isn't a YC73.

[ElmerJFudd]

I similarly have been tempted by the Electro all in one solution. But whenever I play one at the shop it cures my gas instantly. It"s not the sound, it"s the action. 'Tight and springy' as has been described many times. Could tolerate it for organ, very disappointing for APs and EPs.

[ElmerJFudd]

So definitely more focused on being an all in one than a clone with extra sounds. .

 

Yes, that's a good way of putting it.

 

I've never laid hands on a VR730. I'm sure the keybed is way better than the VR09. The guts are the same, which means, for instance, no effects on the left side of split. The APs on the VR just don't compete with the YC, imo. And I think as a clone the YC is a step above the VR. So it's hard for me to see an argument that the YC isn't worth the extra $500 over the VR.

 

The VR730 does have 73 keys, which makes such a big difference for piano. Given how the YC positions itself as equally balanced between organ and piano, it's a little perplexing that there isn't a YC73.

 

If they move enough 61s maybe a 73 will appear. They might respond to user feedback about changing the trigger point on the organ patches if it"s changeable in firmware.

[AnotherScott]

most of the synth sounds are rather uninspiring, and left for dead by those in the Korg Vox Continental

The difference between having an actual VA synth engine in the board, vs. only sample-based synth sounds.

 

I sold the VR-09, and almost sold the Vox a number of times before I realized that regardless of its name and Korg's intent, its happy place was as the bottom board of a two-tier rig providing pianos, electric pianos and synths, plus strings and some other miscellaneous sounds. As the Vox thread indicates those of us happy using a semi-weighted board for piano have found this to be its real niche. The YC61 otoh is going to give me a single board option for cover band gigs

Is your Vox also a 61? The Yamaha is certainly more flexible than the Vox, but 61-keys for a single board gig (or even as a bottom, for that matter) feels kind of claustrophobic to me.

 

I have not tried the new Yamaha but have played the Vox which has a fantastic action and excellent all-around sounds, but maybe the least authentic Hammond tone. For those SK-1 owner's that also have a decent ipad, I recommend trying the IK Multimedia B3X app. I believe the price recently dropped. I was able to use it on one gig right before the lockdown and it sounded great. In settings, just select SK1 and everything maps automatically to the Sk

Although there's no auto-mapping, I assume that it would not take much effort to trigger B3X fom your Vox, either. Though it's missing mappable buttons for percussion and CV variants, and the MIDI zoning that would allow it to as flexibly integrate with the Vox's own sounds compared to on the SK1. One thing I'm thinking would be cool about the Vox, though, is that you might be able to align the MIDI Program Changes such that calling up an organ scene on the Vox with a particular organ registration could recall the same registration on B3X, and then the LED drawbar indicators would reflect your B3X sound and be in the right place for further B3X drawbar manipulation. This LED synchronization at least should definitely work on the YC61 with its more flexible MIDI implementation.

 

it's hard for me to see an argument that the YC isn't worth the extra $500 over the VR.

The only real advantage I see of the VR09 would be the VA synth (fully editable via iPad). Not insiginificant, but for me, I'd agree with you that the YC seems far stronger overall. But for the price difference, of course, it should be.

 

The VR730 does have 73 keys, which makes such a big difference for piano. Given how the YC positions itself as equally balanced between organ and piano, it's a little perplexing that there isn't a YC73.

I agree. For a board with such strengths in piano use and in zoning/splits, I think 61 kind of cripples it for many users.

 

Is the YC an Electro killer? Speaking for myself, I definitely prefer it over the Electro. I was never a big fan of the Fatar action as implemented in the Electro. It handles organ ok, albeit with too much stiffness, but for pianos I always felt I was fighting it. With the YC there is no fighting, just groovin'. And in my subjective view the APs and EPs of the YC have the edge over Nord. As for the clone engines, that's an interesting comparison, one I don't think I could make unless I had them side by side. But it's definitely close enough that I wouldn't be pining for the Nord while playing the YC. But Electro-to-YC is not all apples. There's still reasons, such as the sample library, why someone might prefer the Electro.

Yes... consolidating some earlier posts, I'd agree that the YC beats the Nord overall. Advantages over Electro include pitch/mod controls, multi-velocity layered sounds for things other than pianos, the drawbar design that combines the physical drawbars with LED indicators, monophonic synth mode with portamento, FM sounds, eight single-button patch recall buttons instead of four, endless encoders with LED indicators, USB audio interface, and more flexibility in splits/layers, effects, MIDI, and envelope and filter controls. And so far, everyone who's played it seems to think it has the better action, too. Remaining Nord advantages are the ability to use stereo out as dual mono outs (organ out one side), high trigger point for organ, custom sample loading, pipe organ emulation, downloadable alternate pianos and other sounds, and that 73-key availability. Other than that, there's just the remaining variable of what you think of its sounds. But just adding up those two columns of feature advantages, the YC really looks stronger. And its MIDI zoning functions could help address the custom sample issue, since that would let you add samples from an iOS device,

 

I similarly have been tempted by the Electro all in one solution. But whenever I play one at the shop it cures my gas instantly. It"s not the sound, it"s the action. 'Tight and springy' as has been described many times. Could tolerate it for organ, very disappointing for APs and EPs.

...which is ironic since supposedly the reason they make the action firmer is to make it more suitable for piano! And from what I've read, the version in the VR-730 is similarly firmer than the usual TP/8O, so that could be another knock against that option as well.

[Al Quinn]

Great review Adan! Thanks. Your comments about the action are encouraging.

 

I kind of gave up on the all-in-one board but this might be it. It"s expensive but if I got it I"d sell my Electro 4D to offset the cost. So, I might go for it. My only reservation is the B3. Sounds like it would be good for some gigs but I might want to bring along the HX3 Expander Module for blues gigs where a more authentic B3 is called for.

[jeffincltnc]

It seems like a 73/76 key size, 20 lbs and around $2300 MAP would be a winner for a lot of people and grab a good share of the Electro/Stage users.

[AnotherScott]

It seems like a 73/76 key size, 20 lbs and around $2300 MAP would be a winner for a lot of people and grab a good share of the Electro/Stage users.

That seems like it would be a very do-able weight. The YC61 is 15.65 lbs, actually about 2/10 of a pound lighter than the Vox Continental. Which means a 73 YC could even be a bit lighter the Vox 73's 18.52 lbs.

[Adan]

 

Ibut I might want to bring along the HX3 Expander Module for blues gigs where a more authentic B3 is called for.

 

I wouldn't hesitate to use the YC on a blues gig. I've already decided it's good, just haven't decide if it punches up there with the B3X. On today's gig I used both and kept gravitating to the B3X, but I think familiarity had a lot to do with that.

 

B3X sounds amazing, however, it also went tits up (all notes triggered) in the middle of a tune. I quickly switched to YC organ and kept playing.

[Fleer]

Thanks, Adan and A/Scott for your very interesting views.