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Anyone Run a USB Mixer into an iPhone?


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With all the interest in streaming, it seems to me you could get the lightning-to-USB camera adapter, plug the USB mixer into the adapter, and have mixed audio available for streaming on your iPhone. Has anyone done this?
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That's probably overkill for most "streamers," but I see no reason why it wouldn't work.

 

I used to grumble about my Android phones not supporting audio devices, but my current one, now running Android 9, works fine when connecting a USB mic with return, and either of the two USB audio interfaces that I have. Not that I've ever had a practical use for the capability but it makes me feed good that it works. So far I've only used two-channel devices, so I don't know what software there is to support a multi-channel USB data stream, but if it's possible, it's probably already there for iOS.

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So far I've only used two-channel devices, so I don't know what software there is to support a multi-channel USB data stream, but if it's possible, it's probably already there for iOS.

I don't know if you can do multi-channel audio either, but I was figuring you could do your mixing in the external USB mixer, and send the two track audio to the smartphone for streaming. It seems like this would be a good strategy for a singer-songwriter with mic, acoustic guitar, maybe a drum machine, etc.

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I was figuring you could do your mixing in the external USB mixer, and send the two track audio to the smartphone for streaming. It seems like this would be a good strategy for a singer-songwriter with mic, acoustic guitar, maybe a drum machine, etc.

 

Oh! You mean just like how radio stations used to do it! What a concept ;)

 

Why certainly, and in real time, too.

 

[Later] Now that the long term memory has kicked in, Roland makes just such a thing, the Go-Mixer and Go-Mixer Pro. These are palm-sized USB mixers designed to connect to a smart phone and provide mic and instrument inputs. I think they might do some video tricks, too.

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I do this all the time. Just got off a webinar where this was one of the topics.

 

iOS uses exactly the same Core Audio drivers as macOS. Any interface that will run natively on a Mac with no extra drivers will run on an iPhone or iPad, provided you hook it up with the Apple USB3 (not USBC) Camera Connection Kit. It has a USB-A port that goes to the interface and a Lightning passthru that gets plugged into the wall for power.

 

Note that this works best with interfaces that can be plugged into a wallwart for their own power; the Lightning passthru can power many MIDI controllers, but audio interfaces are more iffy.

 

My strongest recommendation for this use case is the Yamaha AG03 and AG06. I love mine.

Dr. Mike Metlay (PhD in nuclear physics, golly gosh) :D

Musician, Author, Editor, Educator, Impresario, Online Radio Guy, Cut-Rate Polymath, and Kindly Pedant

Editor-in-Chief, Bjooks ~ Author of SYNTH GEMS 1

 

clicky!:  more about me ~ my radio station (and my fam) ~ my local tribe ~ my day job ~ my bookmy music

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Thanks Mike #1 and Mike #2! Normally I'd just go and get the USB3 camera kit from the nearest Apple store, but you know how it is these days about leaving the house. Glad to know people have done this.
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Haven't done it with an iPhone yet but my new Yamaha MG10XU works great with my iPad. Works with Facebook Live, Instagram Live (that's mono only), and the Camera app, in addition to GarageBand and Cubasis LE3. Haven't tested it with anything else yet. It's a two-track stereo mix, but you can record left and right channels separately so if you panned things well you could get two mono tracks.

Yamaha: Motif XF8, MODX7, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, PSS-470 | Roland: Fantom 7, JV-1000

Kurzweil: PC3-76, PC4 (88) | Hammond: SK Pro 73 | Korg: Triton LE 76, N1R, X5DR | Emu: Proteus/1 | Casio: CT-370 | Novation: Launchkey 37 MK3 | Technics: WSA1R

Former: Emu Proformance Plus & Mo'Phatt, Korg Krome 61, Roland Fantom XR & JV-1010, Yamaha MX61, Behringer CAT

Assorted electric & acoustic guitars and electric basses | Roland TD-17 KVX | Alesis SamplePad Pro | Assorted organs, accordions, other instruments

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...
I have a Roland Go Mixer Pro and have made one video with it. Unfortunately, the documentation is quite lacking, and the video I made isn't worth sharing here anyway.

 

Apparently Go:Mixer Pro internally reduces all input channels to just 2 channels (L and R). So even though it has more than 2 inputs, everything is reduced to L and R. I had an effects pedal plugged into the instrument R input, and it was panned pretty hard right.

 

I'm sure there's something I'm not getting from the rather sparse documentation available for this unit.

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Apparently Go:Mixer Pro internally reduces all input channels to just 2 channels (L and R). So even though it has more than 2 inputs, everything is reduced to L and R. I had an effects pedal plugged into the instrument R input, and it was panned pretty hard right.

 

Well, that's what a mixer is supposed to do - mix the inputs. The Go Mixers are really simple and lacks Pan controls that assign a mono source to the left output when turned all the way to the left, to the right output when turned all the right, and when in the center, sends the source to both the left and right channels. In between the center and either left or right, you get the signal in both channels, but louder in the channel to which it's turned.

 

Some simple mixers and interfaces have line input jacks that are wired so that if you plug a source into one of the pair of inputs, it automatically gets routed to both outputs, putting it in the center of the mix. According to the specs, the left INSTRUMENT jack is wired this way. Plug your pedal into the LEFT output and it'll appear in the center.

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Apparently Go:Mixer Pro internally reduces all input channels to just 2 channels (L and R). So even though it has more than 2 inputs, everything is reduced to L and R. I had an effects pedal plugged into the instrument R input, and it was panned pretty hard right.

 

Well, that's what a mixer is supposed to do - mix the inputs. The Go Mixers are really simple and lacks Pan controls that assign a mono source to the left output when turned all the way to the left, to the right output when turned all the right, and when in the center, sends the source to both the left and right channels. In between the center and either left or right, you get the signal in both channels, but louder in the channel to which it's turned.

 

Some simple mixers and interfaces have line input jacks that are wired so that if you plug a source into one of the pair of inputs, it automatically gets routed to both outputs, putting it in the center of the mix. According to the specs, the left INSTRUMENT jack is wired this way. Plug your pedal into the LEFT output and it'll appear in the center.

 

Fair enough. I didn't expect the Go:Mixer Pro to be like the Soundcraft Signature MTK 12 which exposes up to 12 audio inputs in your DAW. I did somewhat expect it to be like other audio interfaces in its price range - stereo input only to a DAW.

 

I'll continue to use it, with greater awareness of its limitations. One thing I have to watch out for is the headroom. I had my guitar amp Line Out plugged into the XLR (Mic) input of the Go:Mixer Pro, with a Whirlwind -30dB IMP Pad sitting in between because the amp Line Out is pretty hot. The -30 dB IMP Pad helps a lot but apparently it doesn't take much to push the Go:Mixer into digital clipping.

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One thing I have to watch out for is the headroom. I had my guitar amp Line Out plugged into the XLR (Mic) input of the Go:Mixer Pro, with a Whirlwind -30dB IMP Pad sitting in between because the amp Line Out is pretty hot. The -30 dB IMP Pad helps a lot but apparently it doesn't take much to push the Go:Mixer into digital clipping.

I had the Roland Go:Mixer for a short bit - Headroom was my main problem with it. If I we had a guitar, vocals and keyboard plugged in we really had to watch those levels - it got frustrating because we started to pull back on our performances. We quickly ditched it and went for the Yamaha MG06X - had it for 5 years now and the little MG mixer is a solid portable performer. The whole Yamaha MG mixer series is pretty solid.

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So the Yamaha MG06X is not a USB mixer - but we have two ways to get the mixer audio into the iPhone:

#1 - Rode TRRS to TRS cable direct to the Apple 3.5mm audio adapter

#2 - iRig Pro Duo to iPhone/iPad.

--- Both give us audio + video on the iPhone.

 

Audio Chain #1 (TRRS-TRS cable + 3.5mm Apple Adapter)

{Instruments/Vocals} to [MG06X Mixer] Out to [Rode TRRS-TRS Cable**] + [Apple 3.5mm Adapter] to [iPhone/iPad]

** I can never remember if I'm using the Rode SC3 or SC4 cable ...

 

Audio Chain #2 (MG06X and iRig Pro Duo)

{Instruments/Vocals} to [MG06X Mixer] Out to [iRig Pro Duo] Lightning Cable to [iPhone/iPad]

 

Yamaha MG10XU USB Mixer

I debated going with the Yamaha MG10XU, it does exactly the same thing as the setups above - but for live performance I prefer the flexibility of having a separate mixer + audio interface. If I was just in-studio, I would go for the Yamaha MG10XU.

 

Notes

A couple of fun extra items:

- Rode Wireless GO Microphone

- Wide angle lens for iPhone

** We've also got it working with the OBS Studio live-streaming app on the Mac which is a whole 'nother level of crazy.

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I had my guitar amp Line Out plugged into the XLR (Mic) input of the Go:Mixer Pro, with a Whirlwind -30dB IMP Pad sitting in between because the amp Line Out is pretty hot. The -30 dB IMP Pad helps a lot but apparently it doesn't take much to push the Go:Mixer into digital clipping.

 

The concept of headroom is one of the things that people who aren't engineers but put themselves into situations where they need to understand some engineering concepts needs to understand. Headroom isn't an equipment problem as such, it's a SYSTEM problem. You're connecting two things, neither of which knows what the other is. You're going in the right direction by putting that 30 dB pad between the amplifier output and the mic input, but apparently that isn't sufficient attenuation.

 

Are you using the Mic input because your amplifier's line output is on an XLR connector? Some amps have a real line level output on an XLR, some have a real line level on a 1/4" phone jack, some have a mic level on an XLR - in essence a built-in DI (direct) box designed to connect to the mic input of a mixer - which is what you're doing. The type of connector, by itself, doesn't define operating levels.

 

A microphone input is designed to work with voltages less than about 50 millivolts or so, because that's what microphones put out. A Line output is commonly nominally +4 dBu with 18 to 20 dB of headroom over that, meaning that it can put out close to 10 volts. This is about 15 dB hotter than what you're getting through your 30 dB pad, so it's no wonder that you're running out of headroom.

 

The other thing that I think you might be experiencing is running out of headroom inside the mixer. While you may not be overdriving any single input, when you sum the mic, guitar, and keyboard and shovel it all into the A/D converter, you could be overdriving the converter. The early Mackie compact mixers had a problem like this without being digital at all. If you ran all of the inputs at just under their clipping level (as live sound engineers are prone to do), it was easy to clip the point inside the mixer that drives the output. The solution there was to pull down the mix bus input faders and boost it back up to where you wanted it using the output level fader. They fixed it by the time the VLZ series came along.

 

You can solve this problem if you understand what levels you're being forced to work with. Perhaps an XLR-to-1/4" adapter going into the LEFT Line input on the mixer will give you better results. But it's true, that the GoMixer is designed to work with low power devices like phones, and that means you'll need to make some compromises and adaptations to get satisfactory results. And, as you probably suspect, it will never be as good as using the right thing.

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I had my guitar amp Line Out plugged into the XLR (Mic) input of the Go:Mixer Pro, with a Whirlwind -30dB IMP Pad sitting in between because the amp Line Out is pretty hot. The -30 dB IMP Pad helps a lot but apparently it doesn't take much to push the Go:Mixer into digital clipping.

 

The concept of headroom is one of the things that people who aren't engineers but put themselves into situations where they need to understand some engineering concepts needs to understand. Headroom isn't an equipment problem as such, it's a SYSTEM problem. You're connecting two things, neither of which knows what the other is. You're going in the right direction by putting that 30 dB pad between the amplifier output and the mic input, but apparently that isn't sufficient attenuation.

 

Are you using the Mic input because your amplifier's line output is on an XLR connector? Some amps have a real line level output on an XLR, some have a real line level on a 1/4" phone jack, some have a mic level on an XLR - in essence a built-in DI (direct) box designed to connect to the mic input of a mixer - which is what you're doing. The type of connector, by itself, doesn't define operating levels.

 

A microphone input is designed to work with voltages less than about 50 millivolts or so, because that's what microphones put out. A Line output is commonly nominally +4 dBu with 18 to 20 dB of headroom over that, meaning that it can put out close to 10 volts. This is about 15 dB hotter than what you're getting through your 30 dB pad, so it's no wonder that you're running out of headroom.

 

The other thing that I think you might be experiencing is running out of headroom inside the mixer. While you may not be overdriving any single input, when you sum the mic, guitar, and keyboard and shovel it all into the A/D converter, you could be overdriving the converter. The early Mackie compact mixers had a problem like this without being digital at all. If you ran all of the inputs at just under their clipping level (as live sound engineers are prone to do), it was easy to clip the point inside the mixer that drives the output. The solution there was to pull down the mix bus input faders and boost it back up to where you wanted it using the output level fader. They fixed it by the time the VLZ series came along.

 

You can solve this problem if you understand what levels you're being forced to work with. Perhaps an XLR-to-1/4" adapter going into the LEFT Line input on the mixer will give you better results. But it's true, that the GoMixer is designed to work with low power devices like phones, and that means you'll need to make some compromises and adaptations to get satisfactory results. And, as you probably suspect, it will never be as good as using the right thing.

 

Thank you Mike for taking the time to educate me.

 

According to George at QES, the amp maker, the amp line output, which is an XLR jack, is a "full-level professional line output... too hot for a mic input". He recommended the IMP Pad. He also said the line output is independent from the amp volume control. With the pad in place, the clipping doesn't happen when I have the Mic input level set at around 9 o'clock or lower.

 

I have a Mackie mixer that I could always run into the Go:Mixer Pro's L and R 1/4" instrument inputs if I want more control.

 

I originally got the Go:Mixer Pro for easy, simultaneous recording of video and audio for Youtube, with iPhone as the camera. I heard other people were recording their video and audio performances to separate recording devices (video to iPhone, audio to computer or some other device), then using Lumafusion or other app to sync up audio and video before upload to Youtube.

 

Here's the 2nd video I made with the Go:Mixer Pro. Couple of warnings: My bare foot appears (already one complaint about that)... Audio most definitely not pro quality and a wee bit of clipping as previously discussed. Also, video actually recorded on iPad rather than iPhone because, I recently got this new keyboard case for my iPad that allows easier positioning of the iPad's camera when I want to show my pedalboard on the floor - the iPhone "video stand" is this crummy tripod that collapses easily beyond a narrower range of iPhone angles.

 

[video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYbX6CFFdqk&list=PLTt3Pf9WOCjRC32luMDcc_PP-OuNOeLbY&index=54&t=0s

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According to George at QES, the amp maker, the amp line output, which is an XLR jack, is a "full-level professional line output... too hot for a mic input". He recommended the IMP Pad. He also said the line output is independent from the amp volume control. With the pad in place, the clipping doesn't happen when I have the Mic input level set at around 9 o'clock or lower.

 

There's no reason not to set the level control where it works. Maybe a 40 dB pad would have been a better choice, but whatever works.

 

But here's something else to worry about - it was a problem with the early handheld Zoom recorders and might or might not be a problem with the GoMixer. The problem was that the input level control wasn't exactly an input level control. The mic input went into a fixed gain preamp and the record level control came between the preamp output and the A/D converter. So if you had a hot signal going in, you could turn down the record level control and make the meters read below full scale, but the fixed gain preamp would be clipping. You'd make a nice clean digital recording of a clipped signal. They figured this out by the second generation and the newer ones were OK, but you never know when a designer takes a shortcut. So don't just depend on the meters to keep you out of the clipping range, listen closely to be sure that it's really not clipping - though I'll admit that this may be difficult to tell with an amplified guitar since there's probably already some distortion coming out of the amplifier that you want.

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According to George at QES, the amp maker, the amp line output, which is an XLR jack, is a "full-level professional line output... too hot for a mic input". He recommended the IMP Pad. He also said the line output is independent from the amp volume control. With the pad in place, the clipping doesn't happen when I have the Mic input level set at around 9 o'clock or lower.

 

There's no reason not to set the level control where it works. Maybe a 40 dB pad would have been a better choice, but whatever works.

 

But here's something else to worry about - it was a problem with the early handheld Zoom recorders and might or might not be a problem with the GoMixer. The problem was that the input level control wasn't exactly an input level control. The mic input went into a fixed gain preamp and the record level control came between the preamp output and the A/D converter. So if you had a hot signal going in, you could turn down the record level control and make the meters read below full scale, but the fixed gain preamp would be clipping. You'd make a nice clean digital recording of a clipped signal. They figured this out by the second generation and the newer ones were OK, but you never know when a designer takes a shortcut. So don't just depend on the meters to keep you out of the clipping range, listen closely to be sure that it's really not clipping - though I'll admit that this may be difficult to tell with an amplified guitar since there's probably already some distortion coming out of the amplifier that you want.

 

I'm not very good at reading block diagrams but in the Go:Mixer Pro one there does appear to be a level control between the Mic/XLR input and the L-R bus which leads to the monitor out and USB out. I've learned not to trust the clip light at least.

 

There are indeed several gain stages in the video between the instrument and the guitar amp:

 

1. Condor Preamp/EQ

2. VFE Klein Bottle which as its own gain stages (3 effects loops, each with its own Pre knob setting signal level going out to the loop; Master level out, Dry level). Empress Zoia which is providing the separate L and R looping sounds, sits in one of the Klein Bottle loops, L output going back to Klein Bottle, R output going straight to Go:Mixer Pro Instrument R input

 

The guitar amp is the type of solid state with circuitry to emulate a vintage single-channel tube amp. I don't think have my gain stages set up to push this amp or a real tube guitar amp into distortion. The overdrive pedal and Condor combined could do it, but the overdrive pedal wasn't on in the video.

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  • 4 weeks later...
I used to grumble about my Android phones not supporting audio devices, but my current one, now running Android 9, works fine when connecting a USB mic with return, and either of the two USB audio interfaces that I have. Not that I've ever had a practical use for the capability but it makes me feed good that it works. So far I've only used two-channel devices, so I don't know what software there is to support a multi-channel USB data stream, but if it's possible, it's probably already there for iOS.

 

I played around with my phone (Pixel 2, Android 10) and Behringer X18, and had no luck. I googled around a bit but couldn't figure out whether there's a way to make that work. It'd be convenient, since it's what I've got things plugged into already.

 

I also have a Scarlett 2i2 sitting around. My phone can't power it, but maybe it'd work with the help of a powered USB hub.

 

{Instruments/Vocals} to [MG06X Mixer] Out to [Rode TRRS-TRS Cable**] + [Apple 3.5mm Adapter] to [iPhone/iPad]

** I can never remember if I'm using the Rode SC3 or SC4 cable ...

 

I thought about that too but confused trying to figure out what kind of adapter was needed. (Which signals are on which parts of a TRRS adapter? Is a mixer output going to produce a signal that a phone mic input can use?)

 

I'm guessing it's the SC4 that you have?: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SC4--rode-sc4-adapter-female-3.5mm-trs-to-angled-3.5mm-trrs

 

Maybe I should give that a try. I guess I don't really need stereo.

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Probably your best option is an OTB (on the go) cable so you can go in digitally, instead of having to use the audio TRRS connection. Some of these also have a pass-through jack for power, so you can power the Android device while feeding signals in digitally.

 

Another advantage of OTG cables is that you can hook up other USB thingies, like memory sticks.

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Yeah, I have the necessary cables, but my phone just doesn't seem to recognize my x18 as a USB audio device. Maybe it doesn't want to deal with anything with more than one or two channels.

 

I would assume the phone audio is stereo, so you would need to mix the signal prior to sending it in digitally as stereo.

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I would assume the phone audio is stereo, so you would need to mix the signal prior to sending it in digitally as stereo.

 

I could swear I've seen multi-channel apps for the iPad, so I would assume that there would be some for the phone. Here's

Auria Pro that supports up to 24 tracks of simultaneous recording on the iPad. It doesn't mention the iPhone, but that could be just because it doesn't have enough useful screen space. And here's a fairly inexpensive 4-track recorder from Sonoma Wire Works

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I would assume the phone audio is stereo, so you would need to mix the signal prior to sending it in digitally as stereo.

 

I could swear I've seen multi-channel apps for the iPad, so I would assume that there would be some for the phone. Here's

Auria Pro that supports up to 24 tracks of simultaneous recording on the iPad. It doesn't mention the iPhone, but that could be just because it doesn't have enough useful screen space. And here's a fairly inexpensive 4-track recorder from Sonoma Wire Works

 

Yes, but do those multi-channel apps accommodate multiple inputs, or do you have to load up those multi-channel apps two tracks at a time?

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There are videos and use cases for the recently updated Cubasis over here:

 

https://new.steinberg.net/cubasis/new-features/

 

There is also a class of app that stands on its own in IOS.

 

http://kymatica.com/apps/aum#overview

 

Connect hardware inputs and outputs, Audio Unit extensions, Inter-App Audio apps, Audiobus, soundfile players, built-in signal processing and filters, in any configuration you want.

 

Route anything to anywhere with mix-busses, effect sends, audiobus ports, and external multi-channel audio interfaces.

 

Play hosted synths and instruments using the built-in keyboard or external MIDI controllers, or sequence them from other apps using Virtual MIDI.

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As far as I can tell from the web blurb, they accommodate multiple input interfaces. Take a look at the links and see if it looks like that to you.

 

Auria says it can do up to 24 tracks of simultaneous recording with a compatible audio interface. Not all interfaces are compatible, but the list of ones that are is pretty comprehensive. Basically, they say if the interface will work with a Mac without needing a driver, it will probably work with Auria. There's a useful page with details about audio interface compatibility.

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With all the interest in streaming, it seems to me you could get the lightning-to-USB camera adapter, plug the USB mixer into the adapter, and have mixed audio available for streaming on your iPhone. Has anyone done this?

 

Yes. It works fine. I don't know about streaming, but it definitely records into the video..

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