Music Player Network
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
OT: So who "borrowed" from who...
#3045536 05/23/20 11:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,518
Likes: 17
M
miden Offline OP
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
OP Offline
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
M
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,518
Likes: 17
With recent talk in places of copying etc etc, and a saying I once read read that went " good performers borrow ideas" and "great ones steal" ( although I suspect that was tongue-in-cheek wink ) I was re-listening to The Beatles Yellow Submarine this morning and the track All Too Much, and at 4.12 I got quite a shock as I'd never realised this line was in the song Sorrow, Bowie released 1973, All Too Much was release 1968...

Not sure how to truncate the video to the 4:12 mark so if you are interested, just jump to that spot. If it's been covered before on the forum sorry smile it just "jumped" out at me this morning hahaha! The things we miss sometimes hey! wink



The trouble with doing the job correctly first time, is no-one will ever know just how difficult it was.
KC Island
Re: OT: So who "borrowed" from who...
miden #3045543 05/23/20 11:57 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,273
Likes: 11
J
Has been warned....
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
Has been warned....
MP Hall of Fame Member
J
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,273
Likes: 11
Bowie's estate should sue the Beatles estate for anticipating his use of that melody and putting it out 5 years earlier .

Re: OT: So who "borrowed" from who...
miden #3045557 05/24/20 01:46 AM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 514
Likes: 11
Gold Member
Offline
Gold Member
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 514
Likes: 11
Originally Posted by miden
With recent talk in places of copying etc etc, and a saying I once read read that went " good performers borrow ideas" and "great ones steal" ( although I suspect that was tongue-in-cheek wink )


That line was talking about improvisors not songs.

Re: OT: So who "borrowed" from who...
miden #3045560 05/24/20 02:05 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,518
Likes: 17
M
miden Offline OP
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
OP Offline
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
M
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,518
Likes: 17
Whatever... it was a piece of whimsy on a Sunday morning haha !


The trouble with doing the job correctly first time, is no-one will ever know just how difficult it was.
Re: OT: So who "borrowed" from who...
miden #3045566 05/24/20 02:26 AM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 21,333
Likes: 150
4x KCFFL Champ
20k Club
Offline
4x KCFFL Champ
20k Club
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 21,333
Likes: 150
Along the same lines: Which came first - Buffalo Soldier or The Banana Splits Theme?

We may lose you international guys on this one. The Banana Splits was a Saturday morning kids show when we were growing up. Check out the main hook in the theme, then listen to the hook around the two minute mark in Bob Marley's Buffalo Soldier.





dB

Re: OT: So who "borrowed" from who...
Dave Bryce #3045570 05/24/20 02:41 AM
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 1,553
Likes: 53
Platinum Member
Online Content
Platinum Member
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 1,553
Likes: 53
Originally Posted by Dave Bryce
Along the same lines: Which came first - Buffalo Soldier or The Banana Splits Theme?
dB


This has robbed me of my sleep for decades... laugh

The first Banana Splits show was broadcast on September 7, 1968, presumably the theme was written well in advance of that date.

Buffalo Soldier was recorded in 1978. Maybe it was Bob's favorite televison show?


There is never enough time to be in a hurry...
1 member likes this: Dave Bryce
Re: OT: So who "borrowed" from who...
Docbop #3045573 05/24/20 02:51 AM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,520
Likes: 6
Platinum Member
Offline
Platinum Member
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,520
Likes: 6
Originally Posted by Docbop
Originally Posted by miden
With recent talk in places of copying etc etc, and a saying I once read read that went " good performers borrow ideas" and "great ones steal" ( although I suspect that was tongue-in-cheek wink )
That line was talking about improvisors not songs.
Slight opinion difference with you. I like attributing it to Stravinsky, but other contemporaries said it too; my favorite version of the quote is "Lesser artists borrow; great artists steal." Stravinsky's intent in the musical context was about reusing others' motifs and themes. If you're going to do it, make it your own vision, and don't apologize.

Thus Vaughan Williams (no relation) did okay to grab Greensleeves and merge it with Lovely Joan, and we love his "composing"; when Keith Emerson turned Lovely Joan into "Touch and Go", it was still great work. Both are the level of artistry I would praise as "theft." smile


-Tom Williams
<First name><At>AirNetworking<dot>com
PC361, PX-5S, AX-Edge
M-Audio Keystation 88, Axiom 61
Re: OT: So who "borrowed" from who...
KuruPrionz #3045666 05/24/20 06:10 PM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 21,333
Likes: 150
4x KCFFL Champ
20k Club
Offline
4x KCFFL Champ
20k Club
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 21,333
Likes: 150
Originally Posted by KuruPrionz
Originally Posted by Dave Bryce
Along the same lines: Which came first - Buffalo Soldier or The Banana Splits Theme?
dB


This has robbed me of my sleep for decades... laugh

The first Banana Splits show was broadcast on September 7, 1968, presumably the theme was written well in advance of that date.

Buffalo Soldier was recorded in 1978. Maybe it was Bob's favorite televison show?
One of them...who can say. idk

We also don't know when he wrote Buffalo Soldier, do we? confused
Mysteries of the damn universe, man. puff

dB

Re: OT: So who "borrowed" from who...
Tom Williams #3045669 05/24/20 06:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,518
Likes: 17
M
miden Offline OP
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
OP Offline
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
M
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,518
Likes: 17
Originally Posted by Tom Williams
Originally Posted by Docbop
Originally Posted by miden
With recent talk in places of copying etc etc, and a saying I once read read that went " good performers borrow ideas" and "great ones steal" ( although I suspect that was tongue-in-cheek wink )
That line was talking about improvisors not songs.
Slight opinion difference with you. I like attributing it to Stravinsky, but other contemporaries said it too; my favorite version of the quote is "Lesser artists borrow; great artists steal." Stravinsky's intent in the musical context was about reusing others' motifs and themes. If you're going to do it, make it your own vision, and don't apologize.

Thus Vaughan Williams (no relation) did okay to grab Greensleeves and merge it with Lovely Joan, and we love his "composing"; when Keith Emerson turned Lovely Joan into "Touch and Go", it was still great work. Both are the level of artistry I would praise as "theft." smile

Believe it or not Tom, none of the folks attributed with saying this ever did - well, at least, there is no evidence they did. However there IS for the T. S. Eliot dictum: “Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal; bad poets deface what they take, and good poets make it into something better, or at least something different" so I guess others have simply borrowed that and made it their own wink


The trouble with doing the job correctly first time, is no-one will ever know just how difficult it was.
1 member likes this: Tom Williams
Re: OT: So who "borrowed" from who...
miden #3045670 05/24/20 06:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,518
Likes: 17
M
miden Offline OP
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
OP Offline
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
M
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,518
Likes: 17
@dB haha yeah pretty clear too! The thing that struck me was I had never ever put those two together (Beatles/Bowie) before this morning - just goes to show how much attention I paid to "All Too Much" hahaha!


The trouble with doing the job correctly first time, is no-one will ever know just how difficult it was.
Re: OT: So who "borrowed" from who...
miden #3045676 05/24/20 07:25 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 165
Likes: 1
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 165
Likes: 1
Uh, no borrowing here --- Bowie was performing a cover of a song written in 1965 and previously recorded by the McCoys among others. So in fact Lennon did quote that song on the Yellow Submarine album.

- Jimbo


"It's called an expression pedal for a reason: It's not a volume pedal." -- Dr. Lonnie Smith
Re: OT: So who "borrowed" from who...
Dave Bryce #3045685 05/24/20 09:12 PM
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 1,553
Likes: 53
Platinum Member
Online Content
Platinum Member
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 1,553
Likes: 53
Originally Posted by Dave Bryce
Originally Posted by KuruPrionz
Originally Posted by Dave Bryce
Along the same lines: Which came first - Buffalo Soldier or The Banana Splits Theme?
dB


This has robbed me of my sleep for decades... laugh

The first Banana Splits show was broadcast on September 7, 1968, presumably the theme was written well in advance of that date.

Buffalo Soldier was recorded in 1978. Maybe it was Bob's favorite televison show?
One of them...who can say. idk

We also don't know when he wrote Buffalo Soldier, do we? confused
Mysteries of the damn universe, man. puff

dB

I guess we will never know...

Who put the bomp
In the bomp bah bomp bah bomp?
Who put the ram
In the rama lama ding dong?

Who put the bop
In the bop shoo bop shoo bop?
Who put the dip
In the dip da dip da dip?

Either. Danggit!!!!


There is never enough time to be in a hurry...
Re: OT: So who "borrowed" from who...
miden #3045686 05/24/20 09:23 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 11,567
Likes: 7
MPN Advisory Board
10k Club
Offline
MPN Advisory Board
10k Club
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 11,567
Likes: 7
Wait, who was borrowing from The Who? wink

...And then there's this:

Beatles at 2:47:



And then by Deep Purple (double time at 0:39):



Best,

Geoff


Enthusiasm powers the world.

Craig Anderton's Archiving Article
Re: OT: So who "borrowed" from who...
JimboKeys #3045698 05/24/20 11:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,518
Likes: 17
M
miden Offline OP
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
OP Offline
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
M
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,518
Likes: 17
Originally Posted by JimboKeys
Uh, no borrowing here --- Bowie was performing a cover of a song written in 1965 and previously recorded by the McCoys among others. So in fact Lennon did quote that song on the Yellow Submarine album.

- Jimbo


Cool, thanks! Never heard of the McCoys haha!


The trouble with doing the job correctly first time, is no-one will ever know just how difficult it was.
Re: OT: So who "borrowed" from who...
miden #3045709 05/25/20 01:15 AM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 21,333
Likes: 150
4x KCFFL Champ
20k Club
Offline
4x KCFFL Champ
20k Club
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 21,333
Likes: 150
This leads to the medleyable song thing. I love being able to wander back and forth from one song to the next. It's not just similar chord changes - obviously has to be an interchangeable groove, too.

A current fave is ELO's Can't Get It Out Of My Head and The Beatles' Something.

dB

Re: OT: So who "borrowed" from who...
miden #3045732 05/25/20 04:05 AM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,520
Likes: 6
Platinum Member
Offline
Platinum Member
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,520
Likes: 6
Originally Posted by miden
Believe it or not Tom, none of the folks attributed with saying this ever did - well, at least, there is no evidence they did.
Good catch!


-Tom Williams
<First name><At>AirNetworking<dot>com
PC361, PX-5S, AX-Edge
M-Audio Keystation 88, Axiom 61
Re: OT: So who "borrowed" from who...
Dave Bryce #3045746 05/25/20 08:54 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,312
Likes: 1
Platinum Member
Offline
Platinum Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,312
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by Dave Bryce
Along the same lines: Which came first - Buffalo Soldier or The Banana Splits Theme?

We may lose you international guys on this one. The Banana Splits was a Saturday morning kids show when we were growing up.


Dave no havent lost me

as an Aussie yes we did get the Banana Splitz over here.

Whats more important to me than their music is years later i tracked down an actual example of their 6 wheel buggy over here. Rare

In the mid 80s was i stoked. A non runner but It had a big 2 stroke in it which any big 2 stroke is very rare here in aussie although common in US.

The day i finally got the motor to fire my guitarist was standing watching me (non mechanically minded type) who said the look on my face when it fired up was priceless or more of shock.

For the Aussies i also had a Repco 6 wheel buggy which had a lovely miniature Sach Wankle rotary motor.

To me this was the beauty of the Banana Splitz the most awesome 6 wheel buggy

Both these buggies were very rare here.

Therefore i loved the Splitz for their vehicle. Hee hee

1 Banana 2 Banana 3 banana 4

Sorry off topic hee hee

1 member likes this: Dave Bryce

Moderated by  Dave Bryce, Stephen Fortner 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4