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Re: A Bach Thread
David Loving #2608357 07/03/14 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted By: David Loving
My mistake! I thought 99 cents was too cheap.

The Complete Album

A regular on my iPod rotation

With a title like "Bach to the Future: Piano and Synthesizer" I was expecting to hear piano and synthesizer _together_. From what I can tell by listening to the preview snippets some tracks are piano and some tracks are synthesizer; never both together on the same track. A pity - that could have been interesting.

I don't know what it is but with the exception of one artist I am always disappointed by synthesized Bach. That artist is, of course, Wendy Carlos. She had the training and the talent to use the right sounds and to phrase them expressively that other interpretations seem to lack, including IMO this one. With the exception of track 14 (English Suite in A Minor) the synth tracks don't do it for me. But perhaps I need to hear the complete tracks to judge them fairly.

Too bad Wendy's body of work is more-or-less out of print. According to her web site, "Due to major changes in the music business, we unexpectedly lost our ESD distribution, leaving us stranded with few good options." That happened several years ago now.

KC Island
Re: A Bach Thread
WillNeverPost #2669560 03/03/15 12:01 PM
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Nice 1 1/2 hour documentary.



Watching this one tonight.


Last edited by CEB; 03/03/15 08:08 PM.

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Re: A Bach Thread
CEB #2669591 03/03/15 01:52 PM
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I'm almost finished with this 3 Part Invention (or Sinfonias)
In this one there is always at least one finger held as a tie in either hand per measure (and/or into the next) . . . the 2nd page is just pure genius!

Really knocked my socks off this one, Bach's genius was never clearer to me. . . . It's having it's effect on all my other playing (non-classical) . . .why I love to play Bach beside the pure joy of it! This is 'back-burner' work for me, at it for a few months now....I usually eventually get through them!

Bach 3 Part Invention in D Minor . . .

Last edited by Legatoboy; 03/03/15 02:23 PM.

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Re: A Bach Thread
Legatoboy #2669755 03/03/15 10:17 PM
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This thread is perfectly timed for me...

I think I'm going to start the Back two part inventions to help build up my hand independence.

Todd


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Re: A Bach Thread
WillNeverPost #2669763 03/03/15 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted By: thisspaceforrent
Originally Posted By: David Loving
My mistake! I thought 99 cents was too cheap.

The Complete Album

A regular on my iPod rotation

With a title like "Bach to the Future: Piano and Synthesizer" I was expecting to hear piano and synthesizer _together_. From what I can tell by listening to the preview snippets some tracks are piano and some tracks are synthesizer; never both together on the same track. A pity - that could have been interesting.

Well, the album is roughly half piano and half synthesizers, so I don't think that the title is too misleading... grin

Btw, that was exactly the spirit of the project: To put the piano and the synths in direct comparison, in a classical music context. Both instruments were unknown to Bach (the piano in its modern form and the synthesizer), so in both cases, you could think of all these pieces as "transcriptions" - of which Bach was a master himself.

I never thought to use the two instruments together; in my humble opinion, that would have suggested too much of a "piano concerto" sound, and I wanted to avoid that.
The whole thing has a rather "chamber music" feel, which I personally like for that kind of music.
Love the Carlos realizations as well, of course. smile

Side note: I'm not really satisfied with the piano sound on that album. It was so bright and metallic that I ended up playing most of the piano pieces with the left pedal down. Not ideal for your dynamics... freak

Re: A Bach Thread
Sundown #2669773 03/03/15 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted By: Sundown
This thread is perfectly timed for me...

I think I'm going to start the Back two part inventions to help build up my hand independence.

Todd


I helped me out tremendously to revisit the inventions. I hadn't played them since I was a kid. I'm kind of go nuts on stuff. I will get on a kick and do it. I was on the Bach kick for about a year. It started on Liszt's 200th birthday. I started lamenting the death of my technique..... Wishing I was 22 again, all that middle aged self pity crap.

My new kick is now Chopin. That is really funny because as a kid I friggin HATED Chopin. I love short pieces. I just don't have the time, discipline and memory to tackle Sonatas and other long pieces. I like Preludes, Etudes, and specially find of Grieg's lyric pieces.

I still suck at Bach. I'm just a Romantic player at heart. My favorites will probably always be Beethoven, Rachmaninoff and Grieg. I suck at those too.

Here is a warped piece of doo-doo. Invention 13 backwards. grin

Bach does some interesting things when backwards.



Last edited by CEB; 03/03/15 11:40 PM.

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Re: A Bach Thread
CEB #2890177 11/14/17 10:43 AM
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"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!
So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt
Re: A Bach Thread
CEB #2890207 11/14/17 01:30 PM
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Re: A Bach Thread
CEB #2890208 11/14/17 01:32 PM
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Great playing!


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My latest album: Funky organ, huge horn section
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Re: A Bach Thread
Bobadeath #2890209 11/14/17 01:41 PM
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Great playing indeed.

I like the tempo's a bit lower though. Maybe thats also because I'm used to my own tempo's.


Rudy

Re: A Bach Thread
RudyS #2890218 11/14/17 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted By: RudyS
Great playing indeed.

I like the tempo's a bit lower though. Maybe thats also because I'm used to my own tempo's.


It's not you... they are a bit fast in general I think. I play them slower myself...for various reasons rolleyes !

I agree, she really is great but I prefer slower tempos myself! Otherwise you get the things Glen Gould was slightly put down for (if that's possible) the 'Music as a Museum Piece' vibe...she is wonderful though... I've played many of them myself! Richter was who I was steered to, so I put some of his WTC up...

Richter was explained to me as very close to a Jazz musician in his feel for classical...living in the moment more not in the Museum....I was guided away from Howowitz for similar reasons ...Always with the statement and understanding of how great Horowitz was though...it's a matter of taste.

Last edited by Legatoboy; 11/14/17 02:53 PM.

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Re: A Bach Thread
Legatoboy #2890230 11/14/17 03:15 PM
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Her philosophy is the same as Glenn Gould.

"Bach wrote 2- and 3- part Inventions as a exercises for aspiring keyboard players to perfect one's technique and touch. Since any exercise is supposed to be difficult and push you to the limit, I did just that."

Glenn was emphatic that he remained absolutely true in performance of major works such as Concertos, Partitas, and Suites etc ..... But inventions, sinfonias, dance pieces, WTC ...etc... were open game for personal interpretation baby.

Hell I have no room to throw stones. I recorded Inventions backwards just for the hell of it. laugh

Last edited by CEB; 11/14/17 03:18 PM.

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Re: A Bach Thread
CEB #2890247 11/14/17 04:18 PM
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She has phenomenal, super-human facility like Yuja Wang.

Stylistically in Bach, I favor more of a lyrical yet probing, relaxed and less edgy approach like Angela Hewitt (who I posted earlier in the thread), Andras Schiff, Mikhail Pletnev and the always extraordinarily musical Murray Perahia. And older interpretations by Rosalyn Turek, Dinu Lipatti, Myra Hess, Robert Casadesus, Richter, William Kempf. And of course the historic recordings by Edwin Fischer.

Last edited by Dave Ferris; 11/14/17 05:12 PM.
Re: A Bach Thread
Dave Ferris #2890250 11/14/17 04:34 PM
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Lyrical and relaxed is difficult. Chopin kicked my rear because of this. Subtlety is hard.


"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!
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Re: A Bach Thread
CEB #3045431 05/23/20 04:25 AM
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When too little to reach the pedals play Bach.

The D minor Prelude from WTC II. She is cute.



"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!
So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt
Re: A Bach Thread
Dave Ferris #3045491 05/23/20 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Ferris
No Bach thread should be complete without mentioning the Canadian pianist Angela Hewitt. ...

Wow, I didn't know of her. Such an amazing performance!

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Re: A Bach Thread
Sam CA #3045516 05/23/20 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Sam CA
Originally Posted by Dave Ferris
No Bach thread should be complete without mentioning the Canadian pianist Angela Hewitt. ...

Wow, I didn't know of her. Such an amazing performance!


She's the pianist whose Fazioli 278 was accidentally dropped and damaged beyond repair.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/feb/11/virtuoso-mourns-beloved-150000-piano-smashed-by-movers

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Re: A Bach Thread
CEB #3045539 05/23/20 11:23 PM
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I remember back in the 1970's, my piano teacher telling me that Bach would make me appreciate black keys. Then the first Bach piece I had to learn was in C. It did have a few accidentals.


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Re: A Bach Thread
RABid #3045651 05/24/20 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by RABid
I remember back in the 1970's, my piano teacher telling me that Bach would make me appreciate black keys. Then the first Bach piece I had to learn was in C. It did have a few accidentals.

Huh...

I have accidents every time I sit down at a keyboard...

Grey


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Re: A Bach Thread
Dave Ferris #3045659 05/24/20 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Ferris
She's the pianist whose Fazioli 278 was accidentally dropped and damaged beyond repair.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/feb/11/virtuoso-mourns-beloved-150000-piano-smashed-by-movers


That was PAINFUL to read. I hope after insurance fights, she recovers her investment.


"In a Facebook post Hewitt said her F278 Fazioli, the only one in the world fitted with four pedals, and worth at least £150,000, was “kaputt”. She said: “I hope my piano will be happy in piano heaven.”

I wonder what was the 4th pedal for?

Re: A Bach Thread
Sam CA #3045700 05/25/20 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Sam CA
I wonder what was the 4th pedal for?

Clutch.

Re: A Bach Thread
Sam CA #3045737 05/25/20 04:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Sam CA
I wonder what was the 4th pedal for?
If I remember right, it's the grand equivalent of an upright's soft pedal.

On a grand, the left pedal -- Una Corda -- moves the action sideways so that only one string out of each treble triplet is struck, and bass strings are hit by the softer corner of the hammer. In addition to softening the sound somewhat, it more importantly changes the timbre, since now you're striking one treble string while the other two become resonators.

On an upright (usually) the soft pedal simply shifts the hammers a little farther from the rest of the action -- closer to the strings -- so that you can't deliver as much energy to the hammer's hit. It still makes full centered contact with strings / triplets, but lower velocity makes it softer.

I'm pretty sure that the 4th Fazioli pedal is the same idea -- the hammer strikes full on center, but with less energy, giving a different timbre from the traditional Una Corda pedal.


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Re: A Bach Thread
Tom Williams #3045751 05/25/20 11:43 AM
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Kind of. As I mentioned in the Hewitt/Fazioli thread: on a modern grand, the una corda pedal shifts the action so that two of three strings are struck - so one less. This results in a change in volume and timbre, since the softer part of the hammer is striking two strings.

The Fazioli fourth pedal moves the hammers closer to the strings (like an upright) which results in a reduction in volume, but not a dramatic change in timbre. thu

Re: A Bach Thread
CEB #3045769 05/25/20 03:15 PM
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I gave up trying to play Bach long ago when taking lessons as I found it frustrating and easy to hit wrong notes. My teacher had me working on 2 part inventions right off.
I think that was a mistake. I found the book First lessons in Bach by Walter Carroll a few years ago and started working on them. I found those a much better intro to Bach to build confidence.
Also, I found fingering really helps me learn Bach. I started the Inventions and put fingering on every note even if obvious. That really helped me. Takes patience to get them up to speed.
They really help finger independence and make you concentrate. Working on no.13 now. Whenever I get to the end I'll do the 3 part. WTC book1 I've been working on also.
The fugue in C# major is a bitch but beautiful. Double sharps take getting used to. Having hands centered a lot over black keys in C# tests the weak fingers on whites.

Re: A Bach Thread
re Pete #3045867 05/26/20 05:28 AM
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Originally Posted by re Pete
Also, I found fingering really helps me learn Bach. I started the Inventions and put fingering on every note even if obvious. That really helped me.

This. Every note, every heel and toe.

Re: A Bach Thread
CEB #3045869 05/26/20 06:21 AM
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Thanks for all the comments in regards to the 4th pedal. I didn't think it was just a soft pedal. I was thinking it was a custom something that probably comes handy for period music of some sort. I may have misunderstood the article. I thought this particular piano was the only Fazioli piano with this custom but official 'upgrade'.

Re: A Bach Thread
Sam CA #3045875 05/26/20 09:22 AM
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In addition to reducing the volume, rapid passages are easier to play as the hammers have less distance to travel.

What the article doesn’t mention is that the fourth pedal is standard on Fazioli’s flagship model, so it’s an easy misunderstanding to make. It was unique only to Hewitt’s model, which has three pedals as standard - in other words, it was the only model 278 in the world to have a fourth pedal.

Re: A Bach Thread
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Bach is such an amazing composer. I appreciate him more and more every year I play. My teacher handed me the WTC told me to pick a Prelude and Fugue, so without listening to any, I picked C minor (BWV 847) because it kinda looked like a Hanon exercise at first glance. I will NEVER make that mistake again. 😂 Took me 5 months to get it down at a passable allegro speed, but boy, it will do amazing things for your technique!!

For 2-part inventions, I suggest #4.


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