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Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3045330 05/22/20 03:38 PM
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Different strokes for different folks, Notes. My observations through the last several years tell me that that chart is less than worthless.

Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
pinkfloydcramer #3045352 05/22/20 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by pinkfloydcramer
Different strokes for different folks, Notes. My observations through the last several years tell me that that chart is less than worthless.
Agreed. Any chart that puts CNN, NYT, and WashPo in the middle is beyond ridiculous and I can believe anyone would take it seriously.

Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Jazzmammal #3045353 05/22/20 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Jazzmammal
No,that's not true Craig. And what's happening right now is a plan because after what happened in the last two days it's definitely time to open things up and I clearly showed why in the KC forum in the Performing during COVID 19 Pandemic thread so I won't repeat it all here.

Unfortunately I couldn't find the post (could you include links to posts going forward?), but I'm not quite sure what's special about "the last two days"? It seems more problematic, not less so, when you look at the USA as a whole.

5/19 - 19,662 new cases
5/20 - 22,368 new cases
5/21 - 25,017 new cases

But we don't know if that's a blip, a trend, or an anomaly. During those days fatal cases have gone down, but that's what would be expected, due to the latency. We'll know for sure in a couple weeks.

Please don't get the idea that I want to keep the economy locked down. First, I don't think a complete lockdown is necessary or desirable. There are ways to protect the most vulnerable while letting others go about their business. There ways to minimize risks without putting a chokehold on peoples' lives.

Unfortunately a plan is not a plan if there's no mechanism to make sure it's followed, or rogue elements trying to undermine it. For example, I don't see how opening up churches for services at this moment makes sense, or how that fits into any "plan." There are plenty of stories like this one from May 19:

Houston church closes doors again after five leaders test positive

[May 19, 5 a.m.] Holy Ghost Catholic Church in Houston closed its doors after five leaders tested positive for the new coronavirus over the weekend, the Houston Chronicle reports. Holy Ghost resumed limited Masses three weeks ago, according to the Chronicle, and the church said in a statement that two of the five leaders who tested positive are priests who were active in those services.


One way to frame the question is to decide what number of dead people is acceptable. For example, I think pretty much everyone would agree that 10,000 dead people is an acceptable price to pay for opening up everything. I also think pretty much everyone would agree than 20,000,000 people is not an acceptable price. Neither extreme will happen. So what is the acceptable price? I don't know. I think for some, the answer is "whatever it is will be acceptable because we have no choice." A year from now, that may look like the right decision, or it may look like a giant mistake. We don't know.

Then there's this:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

That's what's happening in Arkansas, a state that never really locked down. Based on the graph, it looks initially like not locking down wasn't a problem at all. But it seems that way for many of the less-travelled parts of the country - everything seems fine, until it isn't. The "X factor" is that the virus is so highly contagious. As long as it's lurking in the background, we're okay. But when it reaches escape velocity, you see things like that graph....which you're also seeing for Alabama, BTW. The average number of new cases just keeps increasing.

Some might say the Arkansas graph reflects more people being tested, but are they? I checked the stats from the Arkansas Department of Health. Cumulative number of tests is pretty much linear since the whole thing began. Testing for individual days is all over the map, but the average is quite consistent for the past month

So should Arkansas lock down to help mitigate further infections? Should it just say "so what" if that curve keeps going the way it's going? From everything I can find, the plan Arkansas is following is counseling residents to practice social distancing, wear face masks, wash your hands frequently, don't go out except for medical care, and get tested if you think you have symptoms. Is that the plan they're following? I don't know, but it doesn't really seem any different from what most states have been advocating for the past few months.

Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3045362 05/22/20 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Anderton
I really don't agree there is any "the media" speaking with a unified voice on anything.

Are you sure about that?







Dan

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.
Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
PrairieGuy #3045364 05/22/20 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by PrairieGuy
Originally Posted by pinkfloydcramer
Different strokes for different folks, Notes. My observations through the last several years tell me that that chart is less than worthless.
Agreed. Any chart that puts CNN, NYT, and WashPo in the middle is beyond ridiculous and I can believe anyone would take it seriously.

I agree the chart has some flaws, but it's right - no pun intended - about Fox News and Info Wars, as well as Natural News and (duh!) Occupy D on the other side. At least they didn't bother showing Breitbart.

On past election nights, I flipped between Fox and CNN to try to get "balanced" coverage, since I knew the two would balance each other out.

Last edited by GovernorSilver; 05/22/20 09:40 PM.
Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3045365 05/22/20 09:43 PM
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How many times are we going to post the same chart? As I mentioned last time it was posted, it doesn't differentiate between the news shows and the news analysis or commentator shows. Fox has pretty obvious delineation between to two. Hannity is obviously right wing commentator, where as Brett Baer is hard news. CNN seems to blur those lines a bit more, but I think with any of these sources you get a different skew in comparing only their hard news coverage as opposed to their editorial shows.

If anybody is interested in coverage that is truly unbiased, I've been watching Newsy. They seem pretty neutral and keep their opinions out of it.

Last edited by J. Dan; 05/22/20 09:44 PM.

Dan

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.
Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3045367 05/22/20 09:46 PM
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I like Al Jazeera for international coverage and when I'm just tired of the right-left duality of American news coverage.

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Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3045373 05/22/20 10:38 PM
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I don't watch TV. Makes my life easier. I get my news from the news wires such as Associated Press. No opinions.


A reason why I collect old keyboards is that I feel partly responsible for doing it, responsible for preserving history and being a custodian for these things
Plus, old gear has a story. I like that.
Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
PrairieGuy #3045380 05/22/20 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by PrairieGuy
Originally Posted by pinkfloydcramer
Different strokes for different folks, Notes. My observations through the last several years tell me that that chart is less than worthless.
Agreed. Any chart that puts CNN, NYT, and WashPo in the middle is beyond ridiculous and I can believe anyone would take it seriously.
So what do you suggest?

Enlighten me as to what you think is more truthful in reporting. FOX? MSNBC? Actually CNN had the fewest lies of all. But then they don't go in depth either.

Politifact, the people who supplied the chart won a Pultizer for being non-biased.

If you can't come up with a better solution of who to trust, I'll continue with my middle-of-the-road chart.

Last edited by Notes_Norton; 05/23/20 12:46 AM.

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Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3045385 05/23/20 12:34 AM
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Ok, this looks wacky but I gotta give this bar points for creativity. Like it or not, there are a lot of would-be patrons out there that will refuse to support a sit-in bar or restaurant if they don't feel safe.

https://www.npr.org/sections/corona...NntykMioKRMeqCjSl3TdtozikN2yPer3EYbz7qdk

Last edited by GovernorSilver; 05/23/20 12:35 AM.
Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3045387 05/23/20 12:43 AM
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I don't think we should keep the country locked down either but I think we are going about reopening the wrong way - the worst way.

New Zealand did it better and they have almost eradicated the disease -- 28 active cases and no new ones. They did testing and tracking from day one. Our government said for 6 weeks that there is nothing to worry about as the disease spread in exponential numbers.

It seems the people in power don't want to test everybody because it might hurt their chances at re-election.

I think they should get behind making test kits, test everybody and let those who are well go to work and quarantine and treat those who are not. It seems a lot better than saying, OK how many people are willing to die for the DOW? Better than asking "How many deaths are acceptable?" We've mobilized more expensive things in the past in a hurry.

Nations have gone to war with other nations over far fewer deaths than we have already seen. We've already seen over 30 times of the number who died in the 911 attacks in the USA.

We've had almost 1,700,000 confirmed cases in the USA and who knows how many more unconfirmed? We don't know.

We've had almost 97,000 confirmed deaths in the USA and who knows how many more unconfirmed? We aren't testing the dead.

How many deaths for the DOW are acceptable if one of them is your wife or husband?

How many deaths for the DOW are acceptable if it's your child?

How many deaths for the DOW are acceptable if it's your brother or sister?

How many deaths for the DOW are acceptable if it's your parents?

How can we be talking about lives as if they are nothing but statistics? Come on folks, these are people, mothers, fathers, children, brothers, sisters, cousins, girlfriends, boyfriends, and parents we're talking about, not numbers.

And since many of the survivors are left with permanent damage to the brain, heart, lungs, and or kidneys. How many people with permanent damage to one of these organs are acceptable if one of them is your wife, husband, child, brother or sister?

How many deaths for the DOW are acceptable if you are one of the victims?

How many deaths for the DOW are acceptable and you survive but need to be on dialysis for the rest of your life? Or you have so much lung damage it's an effort to speak? Or you have a damaged heart? Or you have brain damage? Or you lose a limb?

IMHO anyone who is saying "the economy is more important than lives" should be out there working. If your job isn't available, go help out at a hospital in cleaning up or disposing of the bodies. It's OK if you catch COVID because you said lives are less important than the economy therefore your life is less important than the economy.

You don't see the rich and the hedge fund managers out there working with the public. They are not saying the economy is more important than their lives, and they stand to benefit the most when the economy recovers.

IMO Opening the country with a lame plan or no plan is possibly worse than keeping it locked up.

But what about using an intelligent way to fight this disease AND open the economy back up? Is that too much to ask?

Shouldn't we be mobilizing factories to build test kits, test the population, quarantine and test all people coming from another country, and let the healthy get back to normal? To me that sounds much more logical than saying a few hundred thousand deaths are acceptable numbers to keep the economy going.

If it's me, my wife, my children, my grandchildren, my siblings and even my ex-wife, one is too many. Especially when presidents and governors are not testing their constituents because high numbers will hurt their chances of re-election. Actually I think an intelligent approach to the problem would enhance their chances of re-election.

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Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
J. Dan #3045388 05/23/20 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted by J. Dan
If anybody is interested in coverage that is truly unbiased, I've been watching Newsy. They seem pretty neutral and keep their opinions out of it.

Sorry, but there will be no unbiased journalism until Craig Anderton launches his own news network. But I will check Newsy out, thank you.

Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
pinkfloydcramer #3045392 05/23/20 01:21 AM
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Originally Posted by pinkfloydcramer
Originally Posted by J. Dan
If anybody is interested in coverage that is truly unbiased, I've been watching Newsy. They seem pretty neutral and keep their opinions out of it.

Sorry, but there will be no unbiased journalism until Craig Anderton launches his own news network. But I will check Newsy out, thank you.

Be prepared - the news is a lot more boring when it isn't being sensationalized.


Dan

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.
Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3045394 05/23/20 01:34 AM
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Just on the news thing, I've been to the US twice, in 2001 and this January. Even in 2001 it was striking how little non-US news was reported, but at least the US news had some substantive pieces. This January I was gobsmacked. I purposely sought out local news, network news and then all the main cable news channels: Fox, CNN, MSNBC etc etc. It was just a wasteland. To be fair, Trump's impeachment trial was on so you'd expect a domination on coverage on that, but in 2 weeks I don't think I saw a single news story that sat between "Person rescues dog out of tree" and "Here's the latest Trump impeachment update". Actually, I did see a couple of pieces on the Australian bushfires across two weeks but that was it.

Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
pinkfloydcramer #3045409 05/23/20 02:45 AM
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Originally Posted by pinkfloydcramer
Originally Posted by J. Dan
If anybody is interested in coverage that is truly unbiased, I've been watching Newsy. They seem pretty neutral and keep their opinions out of it.

Sorry, but there will be no unbiased journalism until Craig Anderton launches his own news network. But I will check Newsy out, thank you.

I will check Newsy out as well. As to my network, I assume you're being sarcastic...but seriously, if I had my own news network, I would...

* Research as much from the source as possible instead of spokespeople from the source who are being paid to spin things
* Not give opinions about facts, because I would assume if people were presented with the facts, they could make up their own minds
* Put a sign on the wall that says: "Saying 'I don't know' is better than making stuff up"
* Correct any misstatements of fact as soon and as prominently as possible
* Recognize that not only are there multiple sides to any story, there are nuances within those sides
* There aren't always good solutions, just least bad ones...and sometimes, least truly horrific ones

And of course, the most important one: Make sure I was independently wealthy so the network could continue on forever with hardly any viewers, because it wasn't sensational enough, didn't confirm the viewer's prejudices, didn't have sufficiently cool animated graphics, and didn't have busty babes and buff boys to provide eye candy. Besides, all the left-wingers would say it was a tool of the right wing, and all the right-wingers would say it was a tool of the left wing, because it dared to question what both sides held to be gospel.

Yeah, it wouldn't last more than a month. smile

Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
J. Dan #3045410 05/23/20 02:54 AM
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Originally Posted by J. Dan
Originally Posted by Anderton
I really don't agree there is any "the media" speaking with a unified voice on anything.

Are you sure about that?

What I meant was that you have people on Fox news saying the left wing dominates the media when Fox has the number 1 ratings, and people on MSNBC complaining about the right wing dominating the media when you have a more fragmented, but nonetheless powerful, group of liberal media..

What they should both say is "people who agree with me don't dominate the media."

But, you are 100% right in the sense that the "agenda followers" are all reading from the same press releases, reporting what they hear from the same spokespeople, and trying to get by in a world of news where there are very few actual journalists in the classical sense of the word.

I have found a few right-wing and left-wing talk show personalities who actually do spend time trying to dig up the facts of a situation. They still filter those facts through their own lenses, but I totally see why they both believe they're right.

In my ideal world, they'd TALK to each other, and hammer out a compromise position that was true to the facts, but accommodated their opinions. Like Republicans and Democrats used to do in the 50s, come to think of it...

Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3045417 05/23/20 03:12 AM
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The fact that this whole situation has been polarized and that news outlets have picked their side and reinforced the beliefs of their viewers, on either side, is exactly what is wrong with our media, but more importantly, US as CONSUMERS of media. In an open economy if we valued honest journalism, that is what would thrive. It's become obvious that most people don't seek honest journalism, they seek a source that validates their opinions, and that's why the bias and extreme polarization remains profitable.


Dan

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.
Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3045423 05/23/20 03:26 AM
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We just got home from going out to dinner with some old friends of my wife who recently moved back here from the San Diego area. Things were really relaxed, the place wasn't overly busy but the "rules" appear to have mostly gone out the window already, next week the bars are "allowed" to reopen and then I'm sure all bets are off.

Anyone who's seen my posts here knows that I came to terms with this thing almost immediately. Although I don't want to get sick anymore than anyone else the idea that I could avoid or hide from a virus was always ludicrous to me. I've gone to work the whole time, done drive thru and/or take out almost daily and as soon as places were open I had my ass in a seat even when I had to drive to a different county. Perhaps it's just luck that I haven't been sick since the first week of January, doesn't really matter at this point.

Something worth pointing out is that here in the upper mid-west Winter typically sucks, it's bound to be cold, occasionally bitterly so and there''ll be a number of snow storms with a lot of cold wind and just plain miserable conditions. So with that in mind I probably don't need to elaborate on what folks are going to say to you when Spring arrives, the weather begins to improve, and you tell them they need to stay sheltered in their homes.

Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3045427 05/23/20 03:56 AM
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I don't want to make sweeping generalizations and the media, as mentioned isn't trustworthy. But it seems to me watching the news compared to what i experience here at home, that there are some disconnects. This whole time people around here have been wearing masks and social distancing and following all the rules to a T. Now they're bitching about wanting stuff to open up while still being safe. The folks on the news and the coasts are demonizing people for wanting to open up while I see all these pictures and videos of people in NY and NJ beaches and CA blatantly disregarding the safety measures. If that is your view as a New Yorker of what Missourians are fighting for, then I can understand why you would think we're being stupid, but from my point of view, we're following the guidelines more than the people in the NE and West Coast I'm seeing on TV and have FAR fewer cases and deaths. Maybe it's a difference in culture. Maybe folks just assume the worst of society is what will happen, but I think things are completely different geographically. The USA is HUGE. Some european countries fit inside US states, and US culture differs as much as European countries. You almost can't look at the USA as one entity. Even state by state isn't always representative. Look at Cook county (chicago) compared to the rest of IL. You almost have to go county by county.


Dan

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.
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Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Notes_Norton #3045429 05/23/20 04:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Notes_Norton
Originally Posted by PrairieGuy
Originally Posted by pinkfloydcramer
Different strokes for different folks, Notes. My observations through the last several years tell me that that chart is less than worthless.
Agreed. Any chart that puts CNN, NYT, and WashPo in the middle is beyond ridiculous and I can believe anyone would take it seriously.
So what do you suggest?

Enlighten me as to what you think is more truthful in reporting. FOX? MSNBC? Actually CNN had the fewest lies of all. But then they don't go in depth either.

Politifact, the people who supplied the chart won a Pultizer for being non-biased.

If you can't come up with a better solution of who to trust, I'll continue with my middle-of-the-road chart.

CNN is the absolute worst. They were successfully sued for slandering a poor kid who happened to be wearing a red hat. They were among the main cheerleaders for pushing the story that the POTUS was a Russian agent, a story that turned out to be based on Russian disinformation paid for by the opposing political party. When that story collapsed CNN pivoted smoothly to impeachment, with the network head's explicit directions to focus on that like a laser. When that didn't work out, they set their sights on undermining Trump's response to the pandemic, preaching the shutdown gospel, and ginning up fear of the virus. The sole reason for CNN's existence is not journalism (they know better than to even make a pretense of being unbiased and neutral), but to damage one party and advocate for another so it can get back in power. And of course, to damage one person in particular.

RE Pulitzers, they were passed out like candy to NYT writers who reported on the POTUS as Russian agent story, using leaks from political operatives. When that was proven not to be true, it was strange how that they got to keep their Pulitzers. They know they will not be held accountable.

Last edited by pinkfloydcramer; 05/23/20 04:52 AM.
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Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3045437 05/23/20 04:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Anderton
Originally Posted by pinkfloydcramer
Originally Posted by J. Dan
If anybody is interested in coverage that is truly unbiased, I've been watching Newsy. They seem pretty neutral and keep their opinions out of it.

Sorry, but there will be no unbiased journalism until Craig Anderton launches his own news network. But I will check Newsy out, thank you.

I will check Newsy out as well. As to my network, I assume you're being sarcastic...but seriously, if I had my own news network, I would...:)

No sarcasm at all, and your response proves why.

Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3045442 05/23/20 05:54 AM
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I'm trying to offer things in good faith. Some people insist on being partisan assholes. I'm resisting. What was the line in Pulp Fiction when Samuel L Jackson was trying to be the shepherd? I'm TRYING to be the MF-ing Shepard here.


Dan

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.
Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3045473 05/23/20 02:57 PM
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pinkfloydcramer - you still didn't tell me what news service you trust so your comments are useless to me. It's easy to pick out a few isolated incidents to bash someone.

If you can't come up with a better source for less biased news, I'll continue to use the chart as a basic reference.

The NYT is slightly left but reputable, ABC is slightly right but reputable, AP and Reuters seem to be center biased, The Atlantic is liberal but still reputable and The Hill is conservative but still reputable. I read a mix of these plus BBC, Al Jazeera and a couple of others. Plus I read my local newspaper which is a light USA Today affiliate but I get local news.

BTW, I researched Newsy which is mostly factual with a slightly left leaning bias. That's the same ratings as NYTimes.

Fact checking pundits' statements on Fox 60% range from mostly false to pants-on-fire lies. MSNBC is almost as bad with 46% in the same range.

Surely you don't trust one of these, do you?

Actually the way I see it is this: During the Reagan Era the GOP nuked the "Fairness Doctrine" which enabled political 'news' stations.

Before that the philosophy was that the airwaves (and by extension the Internet) belongs to all the citizens, not just one faction or political party - in the name of democracy. News stories were required to post editorial content as "Opinion" or "Editorial" and they were also required so show both sides of the story. Older guys will remember "point-counterpoint".

News itself was supposed to be factual and unbiased. Of course that's not possible, but compared to today, it was thousands of times more fair.

I for one think the Fairness Doctrine should be reinstated for everything over the public airwaves and the taxpayer built Internet. Let the right and left wing extremists go back to organizations like the John Birch Society and hold their meetings and distribute their print propaganda.

So what does that mean to this thread? Now what? We are deprived of knowing what is actually happening, we are fed blatant lies and the left and right leaning people are slinging arrows at each other, each believing the set of lies they are fed. And remember, the proverb of the house divided.

I'm a 50+ year independent moderate. I lean slightly left on social issues and slightly left on fiscal issues. I'm also a patriot and I see dark times for the country as the media keeps us fighting among ourselves while the modern day robber-barons reap the rewards. The sad thing is that I don't know how to fix it. As long as the red state and blue state people believe the lies they are being fed, we will remain divided, and the house will continue falling.

That's my opinion anyway.

I am going to let a little virus make me err on the side of conservative.

I read an account in the early days of germ theory, a doctor was promoting the theory that mosquitoes spread malaria. He had captured some mosquitoes that bit patients with malaria in a jar. An army officer said to him, "I'm not afraid of a tiny mosquito, go ahead, let him bite me." So he got one bite and in a very short time he was dead from malaria.

So for your brave folks who want to be beta testers. Please go ahead. I'll use your experiences to chart my future actions.

Insights and incites by Notes


Bob "Notes" Norton
Owner, Norton Music http://www.nortonmusic.com
Style and Fake disks for Band-in-a-Box
The Sophisticats http://www.s-cats.com >^. .^< >^. .^<
Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
J. Dan #3045499 05/23/20 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by J. Dan
I'm trying to offer things in good faith. Some people insist on being partisan assholes. I'm resisting. What was the line in Pulp Fiction when Samuel L Jackson was trying to be the shepherd? I'm TRYING to be the MF-ing Shepard here.

You're doing fine. I have my finger hovering over the delete button...but not for your posts, that's for sure. Keep doing what you're doing.

Partisanship is counter-productive, because it forces choices in a particular direction that may or may not be based on merit. At the end of the day, although there are Democrats and Republicans who walk around with blinders on and are incapable of expanding their range of thought, the reality is that (an unfortunately) limited number of people from both parties come up with good ideas.

It's our job to look at everything objectively, free of the partisan blinders, and push people from both parties in what we hope is the right direction...bearing in mind that the supreme law of the land is the law of unintended consequences.

Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
J. Dan #3045501 05/23/20 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by J. Dan
The fact that this whole situation has been polarized and that news outlets have picked their side and reinforced the beliefs of their viewers, on either side, is exactly what is wrong with our media, but more importantly, US as CONSUMERS of media. In an open economy if we valued honest journalism, that is what would thrive. It's become obvious that most people don't seek honest journalism, they seek a source that validates their opinions, and that's why the bias and extreme polarization remains profitable.

I agree with that 100%. It's a shame people are so invested in their own bias.

I hold opinions, for sure. But, those opinions are based solely on the data I have at the time. If that data changes, my opinions usually change as well.

Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3045503 05/23/20 06:38 PM
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@ Notes, as far as alphabet, "legacy" media I prefer CBS, Reuters, AP, followed by ABC, NBC. When it comes to those I don't argue with your chart. But I base that solely on what I read online. I don't have cable, and with a hearing disability I don't watch Fox or any TV other than the occasional movie or documentary on Amazon Prime. Until recent years, Washington Post struggled to be fair and provide opposing viewpoints. The Hill still follows that mold. RE CNN, an isolated example is one thing, an observable long-term pattern is another.

For political sites I like the Federalist, Instapundit (PJ Media) and others, they have been right on the money on multiple issues the last few years, much better track record than NYT, WAPO, CNN and others that every day told us breathlessly that "the walls are closing in". In an article in USA Today, Glen Williams of Instapundit called it correctly at the start of the pandemic, saying that if you're going to shut things down do it early and hard instead of waiting til it won't do much good. That jibes with a much later Bloomfield article I referred to earlier, that stated that a better COVID outcome was not correlated with severity of the shutdown measures in Europe, but rather with the timeliness and precision with which they were applied.

Can't help but wonder..what is keeping you and your wife from putting on a driveway or front yard show for the neighbors? I know you miss playing and it would be (sorry for the religious connotation) a blessing for all concerned. Evidence is continually mounting that the virus doesn't spread outdoors but indoors. If you were worried about COVID outlaws violating your space you could station socially distanced snipers on your roof to pick them off. I can't see how it would be any less safe than a walk down your street. Just a thought.

Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3045509 05/23/20 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Anderton
[quote=J. Dan
You're doing fine. I have my finger hovering over the delete button...but not for your posts, that's for sure. Keep doing what you're doing. .

Feel free to delete my comments, in fact I wish you would. The subject (my media outlet vs others') doesn't benefit from being rehashed, anyway. This thread is at its best when posters relate their experiences and how they are coping.

Last edited by pinkfloydcramer; 05/23/20 06:57 PM.
Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
pinkfloydcramer #3045510 05/23/20 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by pinkfloydcramer
[CNN] were among the main cheerleaders for pushing the story that the POTUS was a Russian agent, a story that turned out to be based on Russian disinformation paid for by the opposing political party.

To be fair, though, it was only the extreme people in that genre who used the "Russian agent" angle. And I don't think even they believed that, but it was a cynical attempt to manipulate the opinion of those who don't think for themselves - basically, the left-wing equivalent of someone like Sean Hannity, who does the same thing on the right. Those people are not seekers of truth, they're all about sensationalism for the purpose of ratings, while trying to reduce everything to "you're for us, or you're against us."

My favorite example of Idiocy In Media involves Russian interference in the American election process. There is ZERO doubt that happened in 2016. Every citizen, and every elected representative, should have considered this a [I]huge[I] deal. Instead, the left tried to use it to claim the election wasn't legitimate ("the Russians want to get Trump elected"), while the right ignored the issue because they thought it cast doubt on the election's legitimacy ("there's nothing to see here, just move along"). This spiraled out of control to "He's a Russian agent" on one side and "Putin is a more accurate source of information than our own intelligence agencies" on the other. Both sides ignored what really mattered, and in the process of pursuing their own selfish ends, did a serious disservice to our election-based system.
.

Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
pinkfloydcramer #3045519 05/23/20 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by pinkfloydcramer
CNN is the absolute worst. They were successfully sued for slandering a poor kid who happened to be wearing a red hat. They were among the main cheerleaders for pushing the story that the POTUS was a Russian agent, a story that turned out to be based on Russian disinformation paid for by the opposing political party. When that story collapsed CNN pivoted smoothly to impeachment, with the network head's explicit directions to focus on that like a laser. When that didn't work out, they set their sights on undermining Trump's response to the pandemic, preaching the shutdown gospel, and ginning up fear of the virus. The sole reason for CNN's existence is not journalism (they know better than to even make a pretense of being unbiased and neutral), but to damage one party and advocate for another so it can get back in power. And of course, to damage one person in particular.
Not just CNN...MSNBC, ABC, CBS, NBC, WashPo, etc. All of them pushed that story which has now been proven to be false. So far none of them have retracted their 3 years of almost daily misinformation, or even pretended to be upset that their "sources" were wrong. Nope...they just moved along as if it never happened. No unbiased media would act like that.

Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3045524 05/23/20 08:29 PM
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Wow. Holy crap ONE DAY this whole thread turned into a debate about biased news? Craig I'm shocked, man but it's ok with me, it's just funny that's all. We've already gone round and round about that chart and biased news about a month ago. I may be confusing some forums now but it was here on MPN somewhere. I view all this as great fun but drastically and totally off topic.

As to you not finding that thread on KC it's because Dave nuked it last night and I'm not going to try to post here what I wrote there, it was a lot. In a feeble attempt to get back on topic, about that Arkansas chart showing a big spike in cases. For now, that's a classic case of what looks bad at first glance really isn't. Yes, percentage wise that chart looks bad but look at the number of cases on the left, about 450. That's nothing but sure, it's a concerning trend. The people themselves know all about this, they know what they should be doing and it they choose to not do it and that chart keeps going straight up then they'll figure it out. It's like that guy who was very vocal about not thinking this was serious then caught it himself and had a rough time but survived. I totally agreed with the lockdowns for the last several months but now, we've progressed to where it's up to the public because of the economy. Everybody knows the dangers now on both sides. Economy <> Covid containment. In a free country it's up to us now to decide which is more important and the politicians need to step aside and let that happen.

As to you asking about what happened the last two days it was the unemployment report and Larry Kudlow's comments on Thursday. UE was another 2.4 million, very bad. And Kudlow who has been Mr. Optimistic had an interview with the Washington Post and he was definitely not that in almost total opposition to what Trump has been saying which was shocking to say the least. Not just him going against his boss, it's just scary that's all. I take that as a sign and I posted several links and vids concerning the economy but we all pretty much know that argument anyway. I think we have no choice but, whatever.

the other thing is the Wisconsin bars. You guys here know what I thought of that, I was horrified. I just realized it's already been 10 days since they all opened? Man, time flies. I just did a search and nothing about new cases and we all know the average time for symptoms to show up is 3-5 days but of course the quarantine period is 14 days because a few do take that long plus the docs think it's prudent. The point is those bars were packed last weekend so where's new cases showing up in ER's or doctors offices this week? I think if it was only 2 or 3 cases there would be headlines about it. I'm actually baffled, I expected this to be a disaster and yes, it's still early and now it's Memorial Day weekend.

Next week could be interesting to say the least.

Edit

This is a bad musicians losing gigs article plus commentary on how bad the economy really is. This really shows that economy vs virus calculation. Open things up, let these guys get back to work but with increasing cases and probably some deaths. I don't think we really have a choice here. Everybody knows the risks now, if the public accepts that for the sake of the economy and earning a living, then that's it . We'll all learn to live with that and of course this is all voluntary. If some of us including me, are not comfortable gigging or going back to work just yet nobody is forcing us but a stimulus check and unemployment is not cutting it for a whole lot of folks.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/corona...er-for-blacks-in-new-orleans-11590226200

Bob


Hammond SK1, Kurzweil PC3, Korg Pa3x, Roland FA06, Band in a Box, Real Band, Studio One, too much stuff...
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