Roland Zenology / Zenology Pro, rethinks cloud pricing

[ElmerJFudd]

' Roland Cloud Core Membership (USD $29.99/year or $2.99/month)

Core membership unlocks ZENOLOGY featuring over 3,000 tones, 80 drum kits, and full access to all ZEN-Core Sound Packs and Wave Expansions.

 

Roland Cloud Pro Membership (USD $99/year or $9.99/month)

Pro membership unlocks forthcoming ZENOLOGY Pro with full access to ZEN-Core's full editing capabilities and Model Expansions, and unlocks the D-50 and TR-808 plug-ins.

 

Roland Cloud Ultimate Membership (USD $199/year or $19.99/month)

Ultimate membership unlocks forthcoming ZENOLOGY Pro PLUS unlimited access to all other Roland Cloud plug-ins.

 

The ZENOLOGY Lite and ZENOLOGY software synths are accessible now as a benefit to free Roland Cloud Account holders, while the fully unlocked ZENOLOGY version is available to current and new Roland Cloud paid members. The ZENOLOGY Pro software synth is scheduled for release this fall and will be accessible with Roland Cloud Pro and Ultimate memberships for USD $9.99 and $19.99 per month, respectively.'

 

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[BbAltered]

Coupla thoughts:

1) It seems to me they are asking you to pay today for a synthesizer that is scheduled for release later on.

2) There was another thread on the subject of the Roland Cloud where some there was some disagreement about what benefits were offered to subscribers. I suggest it is a good idea to make certain before paying - unless one has money to burn.

[conundrum]

Lifetime keys are a good step, but the lack of an offline mode is unappealing.

[Song80s]

I am glad to see this topic. Roland is being aggressive with. their Zenology/Cloud offer.

 

Software subscription [rental ] has been around since the early 2000's.

 

No surprise they are offering the Fantom equivalent for your DAW at an accessible/easy price.

Even with a 1 year limit, I think its a good move.

[mate stubb]

"Lifetime" - HAHAHAHAHAAHAHA...

 

If you think they won't fold this service in a few months or a year when it fails to meet their expectations, I've got a mint DX-7 for sale for $5. Only hurled once.

[jeffincltnc]

I was ready to pull the trigger on a Jupiter-X and think I'm going to try the core membership for $30 and go from there.

[ElmerJFudd]

Roland, Yamaha, Steinberg, Gibson, etc. etc. they all have their baggage with regard to dropping support for software, protocols, lines, and other ventures. That's how it goes. So a rental scheme is maybe best. Use it when you need it.

[MAJUSCULE]

I was ready to pull the trigger on a Jupiter-X and think I'm going to try the core membership for $30 and go from there.

 

No kidding.

[ElmerJFudd]

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[conundrum]

The Jupiter-X might likely outlast this service, and isn"t handcuffed to a Roland account.

[BbAltered]

"Lifetime" - HAHAHAHAHAAHAHA...

 

If you think they won't fold this service in a few months or a year when it fails to meet their expectations, I've got a mint DX-7 for sale for $5. Only hurled once.

 

Good Point. Cakewalk (Sonar) went out of business less than 18 months after starting "lifetime" upgrades, leaving their most devoted followers holding an empty promise.

[Theo Verelst]

It's not overly clear what the offerings are. You could have a cloud account for it's normal use: to store, serve or compute stuff without loading you own computer. A synthesizer with a special chip like there are new analogue simulation machines with better sound than a software plugin because of the power of the dedicated sound chip.

 

So you could run a powerful digital synth on a powerful PC with maybe a graphics card used as well, or buy the dedicated board, or run things in the cloud. In the latter case, there could be expensive equipment in the cloud somewhere, like a real Jupiter on a great mixer and digitizer with good Midi connections, at you disposal for rendering a midi track you made into an audio track for your daw. Or software on the Roland server farm is more powerful than your own daw hardware. Maybe you could cloud render in ways that are proprietary, so only available without being able to edit and view parameters.

 

Now, is Zen a piece of software that does something similar to the hardware synth chip? Can you play "live" on cloud hosted synth? Is it like "renting" a plugin?

 

Not entirely clear.

 

T

[Devnor]

"Lifetime" - HAHAHAHAHAAHAHA...

 

If you think they won't fold this service in a few months or a year when it fails to meet their expectations, I've got a mint DX-7 for sale for $5. Only hurled once.

 

Good Point. Cakewalk (Sonar) went out of business less than 18 months after starting "lifetime" upgrades, leaving their most devoted followers holding an empty promise.

 

That's a stretch. Nobody uses Cakewalk. When Roland Cloud was released, folks back then were predicting it's demise within months. Since then, they've added plugins and continuously updated the product. Now they've added hardware integration, a patch exchange and later on a editor for ZCore engine. Zenology Pro opens the Zcore to anyone with enough money to eat lunch at 5 Guys once a month. So without owning the hardware you can develop ZCore tones for all the new Roland Synths. Far as I know, that's a first.

[dalpozlead]

I wish there was some kind of clear explanation regarding Roland's "plug-out" and now " Zenology"... it seems so confusing for me to think that all of those are "interchangeable" between hardware & software... really, is doesn't make me comfortable to start opening the wallet..

[ElmerJFudd]

I wish there was some kind of clear explanation regarding Roland's "plug-out" and now " Zenology"... it seems so confusing for me to think that all of those are "interchangeable" between hardware & software... really, is doesn't make me comfortable to start opening the wallet..

 

How I understand it, and I may be wrong... but it sounds like they wrote an audio engine - a pretty robust bit of sound technology and they ported the code to run on lots of hardware. their own synths and Mac/PC operating systems. Since it's the same engine - the sample format, wave forms, patch settings are saved and portable to whatever hardware is running the engine.

[Devnor]

Plug out on the System 8 just turned the hardware into a controller for the plugin running inside the DAW. Zenology Pro running inside the daw should "plug out" with compatible hardware like a Fantom. It would be very cool to use the Fantom to control the plugin.

[ElmerJFudd]

Anyone able to translate this for us? Anything we don't already know?

 

I like the idea of producing the song in the daw as a plugin without having to record the hardware. But then having access to those sounds on the instruments, so not needing to bring along the DAW to play live.

 

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[Stephen Fortner]

I reviewed the Fantom for Electronic Musician last fall, though I never saw it published nor got paid and now EM (like Keyboard) has been folded into MusicRadar. It's a very powerful keyboard, but one thing I didn't get about it or the Xenology platform is Roland's seeming pride in the inclusion of JV-1080 and 2080-era sounds and the associated SRX sound expansions. These were great sounds in their time, but they're surpassed by many things these days, even what's included in the iPhone version of GarageBand, and the only 2080 anyone wants is a graphics card. Fine, "Fantasia" and other classics are sought-after, but they'd be better served by a bank of "Eric Persing signature edition" or some such.

[AnotherScott]

but one thing I didn't get about it or the Xenology platform is Roland's seeming pride in the inclusion of JV-1080 and 2080-era sounds and the associated SRX sound expansions. These were great sounds in their time, but they're surpassed by many things these days

I'm afraid I have to disagree with you here. Especially with the large amounts of wave memory new boards have these days, and how tiny those old sounds were by comparison, I really think it's a shame when companies don't include all their legacy sounds. Heck, some bands still tour with their old Triton or whatever, because it has all their sounds, the sounds of their hits. I remember that one artist (Billy Joel maybe?) bought numerous identical old boards, because as boards would fail in the future and became harder to repair, he wanted to make sure he always had access to all his original sounds. Similarly, if you're in a band that covers hits of the past decades, it's great to be able to call up just that sound. And sometimes an "inferior" sound just has a character that works, even in a new song.

 

Sure, nobody would pick an XV-5080 sound today if their goal was the most realistic acoustic emulations, as they might have twenty years ago. But there are times where it might just be the sound you want, or the sound you've enjoyed playing for the last 20 years... why should we have to keep old gear around forever just so we don't lose access to those sounds? It's actually irritated me numerous times in the past that a new board comes out from Yamaha, Korg, or yes, Roland, and I'm disappointed in the "upgrade" because it doesn't have some sounds I really liked from one of their predecessors. I don't want a "better version" of those sounds, I want THOSE sounds. But I want the new sounds too. So, hats off to Roland for that, in my book.

[jeffincltnc]

I downloaded Zenology and used the basic free version in Mainstage and Logic. It sounds great, especially the beautiful Roland pads layered in Mainstage with a detailed piano. It is really something else.

 

The interface doesn't offer much as far as conrols and they have a lot of work to do to make the Zenology UI more tweakable, but I like what I hear and will probably plunk down $30 for the Core set for now for a year.

 

This is still very much a Roland characteristic sound. I don't gravitate to Roland for pianos, EPs, clavs and organs - not for me - but you can make some beautiful music with their Cloud toolset, that is for sure.

[Fleer]

I wonder how that will work on my RD-88 (with MainStage) when it arrives next week.

[midinut]

Not to hijack this thread as it is relevant, but what if ...

 

... Native Instruments, Arturia, and others had gone to a subscription model? Would we as a group feel the same way about these subscription services?

 

Another example in the same vein is why was Logic $200 to buy once and they've never asked for more money for updates, but Steinberg hits me every time they upgrade Cubase or bring out new VSTs or sample libraries for more money? I'm sure I'm no the only one who skips over generations before upgrading (i.e. Komplete 9 to K12 or Arturia V Collection 5 to 7. How different might that be if we paid them a subscription. Adobe has been doing it with Creative Cloud, Microsoft has started leaning in that direction recently. The art community has subscription art libraries available and if you use one of the images in a newsletter or advertisement, you don't lose those images if you unsubscribe at some point. Things that make you go ... hmmmmm.

[wd8dky]

If one owned a Fantom, what would Zenology add to it? Thanks!

[Mark Schmieder]

My problem with subscription models is that they assume that the company is the center of your daily life or work. That doesn't scale once you add one or two (or more) vendors, unless you're a millionaire.

 

I regret paying for two years in a row now for the Slate subscription as I haven't used ANY of his products in that time, due to not having done any final mastering for a while. I can't predict that ahead of time, as I'm not a business! With Roland, I had no choice, and used a discount to buy two years at once (expensive) last summer. Now it appears I have a choice, but it's over a year before I have to renew.

 

Plug-in Alliance is worth it as they release so many new products and most of them are A-game and get used in every mix across all genres. No regrets on that one; I spent WAY more on perpetual licenses previously.

 

At this particular point in time, I think the Roland subscription is priced for good long-term value even with annual renewals factored in. But I rarely use synths anymore, so it was tough. Their synths are SO much better than ANY of the substitutes I've been using for so many years now, that I would never again use pseudo-Roland VI's in place of their own impeccable recreations (just as with Korg's KLC).

[Mighty Motif Max]

The Jupiter-X might likely outlast this service, and isn"t handcuffed to a Roland account.

 

 

I don't trust subscription models, and Roland has a track record of dropping products without warning or support.

 

If their lifetime key didn't mean I have to be connected to the internet periodically for "verification", it might be different. But in this case, all it takes is for them to not have your product in their licensing system anymore and suddenly you have no plugin authorization anymore.

[Nathanael_I]

Slate works for me. I use the stock plugins in Nuendo for everything that is just surgical/clean/corrective. I decided that if I wanted color, Slate would do. I'm not trying to get any particular "vintage flavor" - so I kind of don't care how accurate it is or isn't. It's just if it sounds good/works for the track or not. So, I've learned to use it, and there's a few things that I use all the time. I don't look at plugins, I don't collect them. If I didn't do this, I'm sure I'd spend $150/year on something, and this just makes it easy.

[marczellm]

Zenology could be something that starts me down the soft synth rabbit hole. See, I've been a hardware only guy so far. Soft synths had a sufficiently different UI and logic so that I deemed them not worthy to invest time in and I continued to do all my demos by sequencing and recording my hardware into my DAW. But Zenology has basically the same sound architecture as my Roland or the other one or two Rolands I have programmed. So my programming know-how transfers directly to its interface. Even a huge part of the built-in samples are the same. So if my JUNO-G starts breaking down I can replace it with either a Jupiter-X, or Zenology on a laptop. Might still do the former though.

 

One thing that bothers me, is that only the Zenology Pro - the priciest version - does full editing. Coupled with the "Export to Hardware" option, that means the only software editor/librarian for the Zen instruments would be the paid Zenology plugin...

[ChazKeys]

I recommend signing up to Ultimate and cancel before the first payment - you get 30 days to try it out. I used the trial earlier this year to try out the System 8, Juno and Jupiter ACB models. I did own a Juno 106 until recently and I couldn't tell the difference. The main issue for me is running them on an 8Gb 2014 Mac Mini. I have to set latency high and run them in optimised CPU mode. Reckon any computer built in the last 3 years will have no problem though.

 

The Zenology Lite plugin is going to be upgraded to provide access to the Legendary sounds of the Jupe and Juno but with a simpler interface and less tweakability. Roland's ACB plugins run on a Mac/PC so presumably the Zencore Analog Behaviour Modelling (ABM) used in the the Jupiter X(m) will do as well. The ABM uses a lot less CPU and isn't quite as good at emulation but I'm hoping this will sound good enough for my needs.

 

I bought a System 1 when they first came out and after a few days I ended just using it as a control surface for the System1 plugin. Sounded the same and the plugin integrated better with the DAW than the hardware. This is the main reason I have resisted buying the System 8. If you are not going to use them live and you have a suitable control surface the hardware is a luxury.

[Devnor]

One thing that bothers me, is that only the Zenology Pro - the priciest version - does full editing. Coupled with the "Export to Hardware" option, that means the only software editor/librarian for the Zen instruments would be the paid Zenology plugin...

 

Search any synth forum and you'll find plenty of users more than ready to pay for an Editor. This one is $159.00 and it's also a very capable plug in for your DAW. Time for folks to put their money where their mouth is.

[ChazKeys]

I recommend signing up to Ultimate and cancel before the first payment - you get 30 days to try it out.

 

Edit: you can just sign up for Core and you get 30 days trial of Ultimate.

 

Ultimate is the most expensive version @ $199/year. Zenology Pro is $99/year.