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OT: well, just lost my job
#3043452 05/13/20 02:24 AM
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J. Dan Offline OP
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There have been many rounds of workforce reductions and maybe I shouldn't have felt as secure as I did.

I worked for them direct for 15 years and for one of their reps for 7 years before that. Always had a company provided car, phone, computer, all my clothes and bags have their logo, and I didn't even bother having a personal email, just used my work one. Then all of a sudden, blind sided. Email cutoff, have to turn in car, laptop, and iPad along with any demos, tools, etc by Friday. Scrambling to get all my account contact info (like banks, social media, etc) switched over to a personal gmail account that I just set up today, except if they need validation from the account on file, I can't access that now. Plus have 2 days to procure, register, license, and insure a car. I can keep my phone by taking a form they sent me in to take over financial responsibility. At 49, this is the first time I've ever been let go from a job. I wasn't ready. I should have had backup plans, a resume up to date ready to go, etc. it's all of a sudden a huge scramble. At least I'll get enough severance to carry me a few months but at really isn't much if I can't quickly find a job in this economy. Further complicating things is that, being divorced, I can't just pick up and take a move in another city without abandoning my kids, which severely restricts my options with a career like mine.

Advice to others: always be prepared for the worst.


Dan

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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043455 05/13/20 02:50 AM
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Sorry Dan. That's rough.


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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043456 05/13/20 02:55 AM
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Dan,

I'm really sorry this has happened to you. It's tough to be blindsided. Recovering from all those changes (getting a car, email, cell phone, etc.) simultaneously makes it all harder.

Hang tough and take one thing at a time. I pray that you'll get what you need quickly. Remember, you only need one job, the right job, to replace your old one.

You seem to be a smart guy, good communicator and I suspect did your job well.

You will persevere and get through this.


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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043457 05/13/20 02:58 AM
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Well, <expletive deleted>.

I'm so sorry to read this Dan. The current corporate climate of zero loyalty to employees (and the complementary end of employee trust of / loyalty to employers) is one of many things I've seen decline over the years.

I assume / hope that unemployment compensation (in addition to severance?) is available; I know that got me through more than one rough time in my 40s/50s.

Including you in my prayers....


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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043458 05/13/20 03:05 AM
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Sorry to hear frown

Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043459 05/13/20 03:08 AM
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Good Lord Dan what a horrible thing to happen. Best of luck going forward, and if you need an ear we listen pretty good around here.

Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043460 05/13/20 03:09 AM
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Condolences, brother Dan.

dB

Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043461 05/13/20 03:11 AM
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Wow. Awful. Hang in.


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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043463 05/13/20 03:12 AM
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Sorry Dan. I know how you feel. I was part of a round of layoffs last Monday. Trying to hang in there too.

All the best, B.

Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043471 05/13/20 03:55 AM
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The first time losing a job is horrible. FWIW, I worked in the software industry for 25 years and got laid off several times as companies came and went. Lost my job after 9/11, for instance.

Don't get down on yourself, and I can only say that I usually ended up in a better situation.


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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043472 05/13/20 04:11 AM
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Sorry to hear this. Wishing for better days.

Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043474 05/13/20 04:18 AM
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Damn. That's hard. My condolences. Best wishes for a good recovery.

Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043475 05/13/20 04:21 AM
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It may seem dark right now, especially if you're not accustomed to adversity. I've had really crappy events be the trigger for very positive life changes, and I'm not the only one. Try to find an attitude of receptiveness to that.


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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043476 05/13/20 04:39 AM
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Fifteen + years is a pretty good run these days in a job Dan. I've never stayed at a job that a long in my entire working career.

I know it's tough, but at least you're entering a pandemic where there is more support and awareness in the economy in terms of increased unemployment benefits, mortgage forbearance programs, renters protection, etc. It's never easy, but you will learn from the experience and as you have already demonstrated, will be better prepared moving forward.

Although I've never met you, based on your postings you strike me as a pretty sharp chap with a lot of marketable skills and experiences, an organized and hard worker. You're going to be OK. Like Mo, I've been through this many times starting in the great recession back in 2008. It's kinda like the gym; no pain, no gain. You will grow, and will be led down paths you would not been shown had you not gone through this.

Make sure you get enough rest, exercise, play music, and network. In my experience, every job I've ever got came from some connection of people in my circle.

Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043480 05/13/20 05:00 AM
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you are a good person, best I can tell. Karma is real. Good things are in your future


A reason why I collect old keyboards is that I feel partly responsible for doing it, responsible for preserving history and being a custodian for these things
Plus, old gear has a story. I like that.
Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043485 05/13/20 05:13 AM
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Yikes, I've been there! Sorry, it's never easy or fun.

One of the two times, I was even asked to stay a week and half and train my replacement. I needed the paycheck and the time to regroup so I did it. Did not sit well at all.

I have NEVER used company email/phone for any other purpose than business related activity and I strongly suggest that everybody avoid using anything that belongs to the company for any personal purpose.
Don't log on to your personal anything, keep it all business and your private life private.

Not sure how you get your phone completely out of their grasp? FWIW, unless you spend a lot of personal time talking on your phone, just give that one back to them and get a Tracfone. As little as I talk on there I am paying around $100 a year to keep a $30 phone up and running. Text is $5 per 1000, use that. Cut your costs as much as possible.

I recently started using Reverb and have found it very easy and low fees. After years of eBay it is a welcome change. Anything musical you can live without can become income. I've made considerable side money buying and selling.
Made a lot of space too.

Be well, be safe! Cheers, Kuru


There is never enough time to be in a hurry...
Re: OT: well, just lost my job
zxcvbnm098 #3043487 05/13/20 05:16 AM
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Originally Posted by zxcvbnm098
... network. In my experience, every job I've ever got came from some connection of people in my circle.
I want to repeat that for emphasis. I've done a lot of things in my life. One of them was developing a job seekers' workshop. It turns out that most people get their jobs through contacts with people they know. Maybe it's not true for you or in your particular field but think about the other people you have worked with and how they got their jobs, and how you got the different jobs you've had. If there's one commonality, I'll bet large dollars that it's that people found out about a job through someone they knew. It's true for me and true for most people. Talk to everybody you know. Someone out there will be your connection to your next employment situation -- or starting your own business or consulting practice.

Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043491 05/13/20 05:25 AM
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I worked in computer biz for over 35+ years some side trips back to music. So survived a lot of layoff and got nailed by a couple and never a good feeling getting laid off. But have to focus on future and try to stay positive, if you don't it comes thru in interviews and that's not good. Also have to be open to changing directions if necessary. One thing working in computers and surviving into my 60's when they feel people over 30 are over the hill is being flexible. Looks at your skills and think about how they would be a positive in other areas that will make for a lot more doors to knock on.

Keep your head up and as the old saying goes.... Where there's a will there's a way!

Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043502 05/13/20 07:17 AM
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I'm sorry to hear that Dan. Fifteen years isn't bad these days. Good luck on finding a new job. My family went through something similar when I was little and it will eventually get better. Live cheaply in-between as much as possible. Particularly now, it might not be as easy to find a job quickly. Hopefully your field of work has a good pool of jobs in ordinary circumstances (unlike what happened with us).

Best of luck.


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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043503 05/13/20 07:36 AM
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Same here. I had told people when I bought my first house in OCT, after getting cold feet three earlier times in my life, that it would be OK this time because my job was secure as long as the company didn't go bankrupt or lay off roughly half of its people (or more), and that in turn would only happen if there was some world event that caused all live entertainment and public gatherings to seize up. Oops!

We were on furlough from the moment of lockdown by the county governments in mid-March, with only two hours notice, not knowing if we'd be hired back but remaining hopeful. Until today.

21+ years and not even a goodbye or thank you from all of those that I worked with for that long, and so many years of sacrifices (massive overtime, vacations forfeited, etc.) and super-low pay compared to the computer industry. All for my passion for the effect my work had on live entertainment, for the customers, and for my incredibly and uniquely gifted co-workers.

I'm scared out of my wits. Most of my opportunities are elsewhere (especially Virginia and thereabouts, with NASA and related contracting firms), but at age 62, I don't want to once again leave behind a place and people that I love, as I foolishly did when I left Boston in late 1991 for California and went from being the happiest of my life to being depressed for at least a full year until I moved out of SF proper and into Berkeley and the East Bay. I can't do that again; I have the best musical colleagues of my life, as well as the best friends, a great house and neighbourhood and overall community. But I can't take a job in Silicon Valley again, or I'd be dead in a year from a car crash.

I'm on bare bones budget as it is, and have always led a frugal lifestyle, but my fixed expenses are now just under $4k/month, and closer to $4500 after food, utilities, car insurance (expensive even though I only drive 1200 miles a year). Food costs have skyrocketed recently as well, and I imagine inflation is going to be crazy due to increased transport costs and necessary bonuses for risk-taking workers.

It's highly risky, and I still have an awful lot to offer as an engineer, but I could retire early, but that is a non-reversible decision. Yet I won't be able to make my bills the minute the federal add-on stops, and unemployment insurance ends in September anyway. Who could have predicted that we'd be in a situation where every other job with our unique set of skills disappears simultaneously? I'll check Dolby soon.

Last edited by Mark Schmieder; 05/14/20 04:59 AM.

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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043504 05/13/20 07:46 AM
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I second the statement about jobs coming from connections vs. recruiters. Unfortunately most of my connections are now dead. But I still am convinced that's the main way of getting a job we will actually like. The reason I got my job in Pro Audio is that my most recent boss had applied for it first, but turned it down due to wanting to keep his private consulting firm going and thus not being able to commit to a 40 hour work week. So he recommended me for the position, and as my main personal reference had already been offered the job, I managed to impress someone who was notorious for intimidating interviewees almost enough to wet their pants. :-)

As I was moving from one industry (computers) to another (pro audio), I think the "connections" aspect definitely made a bigger difference than usual. But I suppose when the economy is rolling and there are more jobs than people, that's also a good time to just hop into something you may not normally look like the best candidate for, and then if you prove yourself, no one will mind later on. :-)

This time around, I will once again have to switch industries as the one I had hoped to devote the rest of my life to is dying VERY quickly. I am looking to get into software support for health research.


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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043506 05/13/20 07:51 AM
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Dan, I can really relate to what you're going through, but don't blame yourself. There are decisions we have to make in life that are based on calculated risks about the short-term vs. the long-term, and if we never take those risks (such as my chickening out of home-buying three times over a 25 year period), the consequences get bigger each time.

I too have never been unemployed until now, so I had worked for almost 40 years straight. It definitely has made me more sympathetic to the chronically unemployed, now that I know what a hassle it is to deal with the bureaucracy, and how many snafus there can be that make you miss received payments in a timely fashion. And now, when they're so overwhelmed, some aren't getting their checks at all.

And then of course there are the working musicians, the gig economy people, etc., who have had to live with a lack of security their entire lives. I admire people with that courage; I'm too cowardly.


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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043507 05/13/20 07:55 AM
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The skillset you all have will pay off in the way of finding a new job.

The current climate doesn't nake it any easier but as mentioned, unemployment benefits and debt forbearance provide some relief.

While getting your finances in order and looking for another job, spend more time doing those things that may have been pushed aside as a hard charging employee.

Starting your own consulting business should definitely be a consideration too. There is no layoff.

Hang in there. This too shall pass. You will land on solid ground. cool


PD

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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043508 05/13/20 07:56 AM
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Dan, and others who have recently lost jobs, don't be too hard on yourself if it's difficult to find positions of interest, or if you don't seem to get responses, as this is an unprecedented time, and there are about 1000 applicants for each position I file for. This will pass, but it's hard to believe that when bills are due. Have faith that the current situation will not persist in its current state, whatever happens.

Another thing that my brother told me is that you don't have to collect every unemployment payment available; you can stagger your claims. My brother did this during a major downturn (might have been post-9/11) as he wasn't confident any job he did get at that point would be long-lived (he was right!), and knowing that when we file for unemployment, we are pre-authorized for a set amount that can be distributed multiple times over the period of 12 months, not necessarily contiguously.

So if you're able to live on less -- especially given the extra from the feds -- and you're not sure whatever you take on next will last even a full year, it's a gamble either way, but it's worth considering a stagger approach. But not while the feds are tagging on an extra amount; only after that part ends. It would be foolish to throw that away, given what we're all up against.


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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043511 05/13/20 08:38 AM
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Dan, Mark and everyone else who has received similar bad news recently,

First of all, my sincere condolences. These are challenging times for sure. If you are like most people, we always think that these are things that happen to other people. Of course you don't deserve your recent hard luck, especially given that you are dedicated and intelligent workers. Your employers did not want to be in this situation any more than you did and, given that they were happy to benefit from your fine and committed service for years and would have continued to maintain the status quo had the world not changed. In addition to your experience and expertise in your jobs, as musicians you have developed resilience, interpersonal skills and entrepreneurial instincts that many younger people may have not yet learned. You are the wisened and experienced gunfighters. Though, for a while, you have the right to feel all of the worries and frustrations that go with your current situations, I sincerely hope that the fighter in you makes you seek and take advantage of any new opportunities that you might have missed had you not been presented with your new challenges. Obviously, you have supporters here and likely elsewhere. From my experience, I think that bitterness (no matter how justified it may be) can emanate from a person like shit stuck to their shoe, so keep that in check. It acts as a people repellant if you don't. As I always reminded my former students, remember to be grateful for what you do have and move on from there.
I'm sorry if any of that sounds trite or preachy, as that is not my intention. Kick these tough times in the ass and we hope for all the best for you going forward.

Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043512 05/13/20 08:44 AM
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Sorry to hear this Dan. So many times in life things happen which seem unspeakably dreadful, and yet when you look back at them in a year or so's time, you actually think “thank goodness that happened” because it resulted in something else which could never have come about without the horrible event.

Try to cling to that thought if things get difficult. Your life will change but it could be for the better. You now have all sorts of options which you did not have before. Take it one day at a time and try to stay positive. You will get through this.


"Turn your fingers into a dust rag and keep them keys clean!" wink Bluzeyone
Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043513 05/13/20 10:05 AM
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Sorry to hear this Dan-I hope things work out.

Mike


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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043514 05/13/20 10:15 AM
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Sorry to read of your problems Dan.

At 49 years old I too was made redundant but luckily for me was given three months notice with pay. Same as you though with company car and IT kit.

I bounced back and got a job two weeks after termination and started with the new company two weeks later.

Three years later got made redundant again following the loss of a major contract forcing restructuring.

I then set up my own Company and worked for myself until I retired.

Stay positive and get out there in the job market asap

Best wishes in getting yourself sorted.

Last edited by Biggles; 05/13/20 10:17 AM.

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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043523 05/13/20 12:18 PM
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that's though Dan! Hope you will find something new fast!


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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043529 05/13/20 12:38 PM
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Dan, if there's anything you need (even if it's just continued venting), please don't hesitate to ask. I can't speak for everyone on the forum, obviously, but community is more important than ever in a time like this, and we need to be able to rely on each other. Best wishes for you. We're here.


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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043534 05/13/20 01:10 PM
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Really sorry to hear this Dan. Your need to stay local makes it all the more difficult, but not insurmountable. Much respect for your parental obligations - hang in there.

Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043536 05/13/20 01:23 PM
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Very sorry to hear that. My manager has been trying to get me fired (wrote me up to HR, first step in doing so)...she's been working there 6 months, I have 16 years. She wants to put her thing down and build her own team. At least if I was laid off I'd get severance...so now I have to be a model citizen despite her shenanigans and awful management "skills" and provocations (she is a veteran of political wars, I just like to work) and try to stave it off.

Unfortunately for what I do (database programmer) the market has dried up; I was looking before this hit and the amount of recruiters contacting me,and job openings I found for myself, is way, way less now. One big change for me is that I'm now considering contract and especially contract-to-hire positions; up til now I was focused on replacing my perm position with another perm position. Hardly any companies hire directly anymore seems like.

Last edited by Stokely; 05/13/20 01:24 PM.
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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043539 05/13/20 01:39 PM
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I’m sorry to hear about this Dan. Thoughts are with you.

Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043541 05/13/20 01:48 PM
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sorry to hear this. good luck and hang in there, really hope things will get better.

Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043544 05/13/20 02:12 PM
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Dan,

Once you hit bottom, you can only bounce up. With your skill set and street smarts I’m sure this will pass quickly.

Jake


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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043548 05/13/20 02:47 PM
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Dan I have been through that shit two times and I was older each time. Things are incredibly tough, especially being middle aged in the work force. Let us know how everything is going.


"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"


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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043549 05/13/20 02:48 PM
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Sorry to hear this Dan. I hope you find a better job quickly.

Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043550 05/13/20 02:54 PM
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So sorry to hear this Dan. I was there in 2008 when the job market wasn't pretty. These are tough time but you got this. Hang in there.

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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043560 05/13/20 04:03 PM
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Dan and the others: I feel for each of you. Been there before several times over the decades. First time was in my 20's with a pregnant wife. Did some work I really didn't care for a few months, studies for my FCC License each night, moved a hundred miles or so and helped put a new TV station on the air. Second was in retail (camera) sales, went back to TV station which was under different ownership. Third was late 30's when I had voluntarily left the Voice of America transmitting station for a new Christian TV permit holder not yet on air. Six months later, they ran out of money, and had to let us go. Opened my own full time business then, started looking for a job again, three years later realized I didn't need a job. All the bills were paid, I was enjoying myself more working for me. Did have to change fields in my work several times as one thing died another would arise. Then I got tired of the constant travel in my business and took a senior position with a local hospital in IT. Eleven months later, they decided to outsource, and I left them the day they announced it for a position that paid a lot more helping to build the Navy-Marine Corps Computer Network. With them for three years, working for a Small Business that was hiring me out to the prime contractor. They decided to replace all of our high level positions with their own people, and I was unemployed at age 61. Wife was working but still not enough to finish paying for the home in Southeastern Virginia. Did six months as a Real Estate Agent, sold ONE house in that time. It was my home. Moved 150 miles back to eastern NC small town, made enough on the house to buy my present house and have it fully paid. Went back into my own business again. Took Social Security early, still running the business, and happy as a lark

Keep at it, look for opportunity, realize that you may not have to work for someone else if you are willing to push yourself like a boss would push you. It can and does get better.


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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043566 05/13/20 04:53 PM
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Sorry to hear, Dan, Mark, and anyone else affected. Best wishes going forward.

Dan, this will be a good learning experience for your kids too. I know you've been bonding with them recently already with the quarantine but they'll see yet another side of you. It's in no way your fault, remember that. Reach out if you need help.


Eric
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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043577 05/13/20 05:50 PM
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Just wanted to add that I started my own consulting business 35 years ago, after I realized that I was making money for other people, why not make it for myself? I had a business partner who really started us off. You don't get benefits or vacation time or health insurance, you have to pay self-employment taxes, you have no job security, you have to market yourself and your business, but there's nothing better than being your own boss. I've been fired by clients and I've had to fire clients. I just retired and closed up the business. I wouldn't trade the last 35 years working for myself to be working for someone else. Not everybody's knowledge and skills can translate into their own business. But if it's a possibility for you [all of you in this situation] I strongly suggest you consider it. It takes a leap of faith to jump off the cliff, and it may require a period of bare bones living, but if you can make it work eventually, you will always be glad you did. And even if it doesn't work, I still think you will be glad you tried. You will learn a lot and it may well lead to your next job, one you like and are well-qualified for.

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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043594 05/13/20 07:24 PM
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Dan, not sure what all your background is as far as the technical stuff you do.

However, I will send you a link via private message. My company has open positions. Most in Ohio, some in mid west...


David
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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043614 05/13/20 09:51 PM
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Sorry Dan, here's hoping you fall forward.


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My latest album: Funky organ, huge horn section
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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043633 05/14/20 12:06 AM
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That’s Rough Dan.

Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043650 05/14/20 01:56 AM
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Dan, I don't know you other than through your forum posts, but because of them, I've come to respect and like you. So if you can make that kind of impression via a text-only medium, I'm sure you'd come across as the straight shooter you are when doing interviews, in person or online. I hate to resort to cliches, but everything happens for a reason. I think your gig for right now is to figure out what that reason is, and run with it.

At NAMM one year I saw someone who I sensed was having some kind of problem. For some reason I felt compelled to go up to him. He opened up about killing himself, and was debating the best way to do it. He was no longer with his wife, who had pulled his daughter away from him, which had broken his heart. He didn't have a job. He had no savings left. He felt he had no future.

For some reason, I said "You never know how a movie's going to end. Things will be different in a year."

Amazingly, I saw him a year later at NAMM, at an industry breakfast. He had a good gig, had become close to his daughter again, was with an outstanding girlfriend, and he was smiling.

See you in a year smile

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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043654 05/14/20 03:08 AM
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To echo Craig's thought, one of my favourite song lyrics ever is from a song called "Le répondeur" by Les Colocs (translated):

"Yesterday, I met a homeless man
Living in the street, nothing to his name
He recited a funny saying
Life is short, but some bits are long"


Eric
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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043659 05/14/20 04:52 AM
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Hey Dan, I’m sorry to hear this has happened to you.

And I haven’t much more to add that hasn’t already been said, but to tell you a couple of things I’ve learned from personal experience climbing out of more than one bottomless pit.

You have received a gift. Call it a gift of time or another chance, but it’s without a doubt a gift of all the wonderful things that would never have happened, had this event not changed the trajectory of your life.

The other thing is “when it’s the right thing, doors open.“ Keep your head up and your mind open.


Rod
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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043679 05/14/20 12:01 PM
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Sorry to hear you lost your job.
I lost my business after the 2008 crisis, so I know how it feels. Keep your head up and don’t be discouraged.
I fear the worst of this whole Corona affair is yet to come.

Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043691 05/14/20 01:31 PM
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Hey, Dan - I'm still relatively new here and haven't posted a lot, but I've gotten a meaningful amount of value out of your posts. I can both sympathize and empathize with your situation, and in reading through this thread, despite the challenge at-hand, it seems pretty cool that you have so many here that are feeling bad right along with you, are trying to help in your next steps, and are looking forward to celebrating with you once you've started on your next opportunity. Good luck!


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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043693 05/14/20 01:41 PM
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Hang in their brother! Things will get better!


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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043709 05/14/20 03:21 PM
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Sorry to hear about this Dan. I've only experienced it once (thankfully) and I was kinda asking for it when it happened. Basically I had been the boss man doing many rounds of layoffs and it was my time...one can only do that so long before it gets soul crushing. Oddly enough it was during my couple months off that I first joined this forum. I eventually found a great job (back doing technical work instead of management smile ) where I have been for 12.5 years now. So two really good things came out of it.

This is not to minimize what you face. Times are tough and I wish you all the best luck. All the advice about staying positive about yourself is spot on. Based on your thoughtful input in this forum, I'm sure you were a valued employee (15 years is an eternity in this era.)

I'm not a fan of common bromides...but if you need some sober inspiration, try Viktor Frankl's "Man's Search for Meaning." One of the fundamental tenets is that no one gets out of this life without suffering...but it is important to give your suffering meaning. This book was enormously helpful for me when I was having some life struggles a couple decades ago. In that vein, I want to compliment you for being so open about your situation. You have already made some good out of this by warning folks about tying personal business to work email.

Be well.

Last edited by Sam Mullins; 05/14/20 03:24 PM.

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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043719 05/14/20 03:44 PM
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JDan, if you haven't done this already, set up a profile on LinkedIn. This is where a vast amount of recruiting is done, every day. Even in these crazy times, people are looking for skilled & experienced professionals. And now, companies are casting a much broader net. For example, I wouldn't hesitate to hire someone from anywhere in the country, with my types of positions you don't need to be living in the same vicinity anymore. (remote work might not fit your role type?)

Get someone to review your profile, take their feedback and make adjustments.

Reach out to your network, ask for recommendations, ask to put them on your LinkedIn profile. I imagine many folks on this forum know you well enough to give you a recommendation. I would.

Start data mining LinkedIn and Indeed, find roles that match your experience, reach out to those firms, start chipping away. You'll get better and better as you go.

Prepare yourself with mock interviews. That should be a snap, as all this is happening via Zoom and other similar services. One tip - get proficient at concise answers! Avoid long and drawn out answers unless it's absolutely required to dive deep.

You may have all this already wired... good luck.


soundcloud.com/stream
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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043740 05/14/20 06:28 PM
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Dan - it’s admirable to be prioritizing your kids at this difficult time. Although it can make things even more challenging at this point, it’ll also make it all more rewarding in the end.


Joe
Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043742 05/14/20 06:43 PM
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Sincere commiserations, Dan. It’s bad enough to lose your job, but so much worse to have it happen unexpectedly.
I’ve also just today heard we’re facing redundancies at my college - and the criteria make me eminently eligible for the chop.
It’s an awful time we’re going through. But judging from your posts, you’re definitely a smart cat. You’ll land on your feet, brother. No doubt.

Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043749 05/14/20 07:01 PM
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So sorry to hear this news, Dan. I'll be praying for your success in landing a new job that fits all your needs. If it's any consolation, I was in your spot about 11 years ago. I ended up in a much better job with a company that actually seems to appreciate my contributions. Hang in there, brother.


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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043753 05/14/20 07:09 PM
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So sorry to hear this from Dan and Mark. I was just going to suggest Linkedin as well and once you're set up, post the link here. Just like Escape Rocks said, his company has openings so you never know what may pop up out of this forum and any other social media platforms you hang out at. A couple of things I want to mention and they're only comments and suggestions. First, do not tap into your retirement money, leave it alone. Second be aware the credit card companies are nervous too. You may have a couple of cards with 10-15K limits and think you can use them as a bridge to hold you over until...you get a letter saying they've reduced your limit to $3,000 or simply cancel it. The CC companies got burned bad in 2008 so they're watching for sudden large usage of their cards in the middle of a crisis.

This brings me to a tax point. When things get bad and the CC companies write off bad debts you get a 1099 C and what the heck is that? it's Cancellation of Debt Income. COD is income because you got a taxable benefit for whatever goods and services you received including a mortgage. In 2008 Congress temporarily excluded mortgages from that requirement but not credit cards so suddenly someone has to include 15K of credit card debt that was written off as additional income on their tax return. This is only one of many reasons why myself and some others keep saying yes this virus is bad but a serious recession or depression could be worse. There are so many ways the shutdown of the economy could bite us very hard financially, emotionally and everyway else.

Bob


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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043764 05/14/20 07:54 PM
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Sorry to both Dan and Mark. One thing that particularly sucks about this is that I know Dan (and most likely Mark as well) could make a decent income from gigs, except now they can't. Dan used to make tons in That 80s Band when he first joined us. I bet he could get something ramped up if that were an option. Sigh.

That does tell me that Dan can get something going. He's a deep, dedicated worker at whatever he puts himself into. (Probably Mark as well! wink )

You guys know where to find me/us if you want some support or to chat or whatever. thu


The great thing about music is that there's always something to learn. The frustrating thing about music is that there's always something to learn!
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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043798 05/14/20 11:16 PM
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Dan and Mark, so very sorry to hear about your situations! I have no advice to offer that hasn't been given above, but I really sympathize. Until March, I pretty much had 3 streams of income, I worked part time in music retail, was self-employed doing recording, mixing, audio production and teaching through my studio, and worked as a contractor for a live sound company doing sound, stage and lights for festivals, theaters, concerts, etc. Oh yeah, there was also the meagre income from playing gigs. The live sound work is mostly seasonal, we worked a lot from June-October, and had one of our biggest seasons ever on the books for 2020. With the quarantine, the store closed temporarily, most of my studio work disappeared, and almost all of our events for the season were cancelled, with the rest very likely to be as well. And all the gigs I had booked to play are cancelled, of course. I really did not expect this, I have always figured that I was diversified enough to survive whatever happened, but not this.

I'm 58, and to be honest, I don't know if I have the means to re-invent myself yet again, though I have done so several times throughout my so-called career. I worked for about 12 years developing educational software, first for a university, then for a textbook publisher. That job disappeared in 2007, and I was left with a fairly specific skill-set that had no demand in the market, and was tens of thousands of dollars in debt. At that point, I was sick of the academic and business worlds, and doubled down on working in sound and music. I'd done pretty well also, until March.

At this point, at least I have relatively little debt, my wife and I paid off our house in January, and she has a steady income from early retirement, so we will survive. But it's not what I intended at this point in my life.


Turn up the speaker
Hop, flop, squawk
It's a keeper
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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043799 05/14/20 11:25 PM
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Thank you for sharing your experience Dan, that's gotta be rough. I'll try to provide some optimism. I've done a fair amount of career counseling in my previous gig as a vocational evaluator and will also draw upon research from my experience working in academia.

The #1 predictor of job attainment is job availability. Electrical engineers have historically been in very high demand. I understand the present situation has adversely impacted job availability across a wide-range of occupations, but probably best to be in a field that is high-demand verses low-demand. Here is some information from the Occupational Outlook Handbook you may find useful.

The #2 predictor of job attainment is work ethic, which involves the extent to which one values working, and other personal attributes. I have come to know you as industrious, conscientious, and reliable, representing personality factors that demonstrate relatively strong, positive correlations with high ratings on performance evaluations. Not related to work ethic, you are smart and would probably do well on a pre-selection test involving cognitive ability. All of this combined with your considerable business/sales acumen results in a highly attractive profile.

I would also encourage you to consider using this as an opportunity for short-term, supplemental training. A course in biomedical equipment engineering (an area that would seem to be "hot" for a while) would enhance your already stellar skill set.

Hang in there brother.


"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing."
- George Bernard Shaw
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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043827 05/15/20 05:05 AM
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Since we're talking possible career changes, look at me. I was in the car business for years, sales, some management finally an auto broker. There was a big crash, I went through serious life changes so I switched to working at a CPA firm for a guy I had brokered two cars for as a nobody who knew little about taxes other than doing my own returns. I saw opportunity there because they were very busy and growing. Fast forward some years I decided to become an Enrolled Agent licensed by the IRS to represent people at all levels of the agency. The test is not easy, it's all high level tax law stuff. But, the beauty of it is no formal degree or prerequisites needed other than passing a background check. There are only three groups allowed to sign a Power of Attorney with the IRS, CPA's, attorney's and EA's. We all know what it takes to become a CPA or attorney. Here I am at the same level with the IRS as they are with the same authority and same right of representation.

Shortly after I passed the exams a friend who is a CPA/EA who then went to night school and got his Masters in Taxation (he's about the smartest guy I've ever met) asked if he could borrow my books for a friend. His friend passed the exams and within a week got a job at a tax resolution firm starting at 56K a year with no experience. And it still took about about a month before he formally got the certificate from the IRS so he could sign a POA. This was 12 or so years ago. I'm 74 now, I did this when I was 61 or 62 so it's never too late and looking back at it now I should have done it years earlier. The CPA's had encouraged me to go for it but I kept putting it off. Big mistake. Having that license put me at another level and opened up more opportunities because as clients came in with problems, I was able to completely take over the case rather than simply being an assistant. Of course that puts me on the firing line with the IRS too. They were happy to have me do that and once they saw me doing it well, gave me a bigger chunk of the fees. That in turn led to more clients being referred because we were becoming known as being able to handle those kinds of issues, not every CPA is interested in doing that. After the first few cases they stopped closely supervising me and I just handled it. Of course I kept them in the loop and it's stupid to not use two good CPA's as a resource but this is my department. That's the opportunity I'm talking about here and that's why I'm still handling those cases now in semi retirement. To me what I did is nothing special, anybody here can do the same thing if they're inclined to do it. And there's every opportunity to go on your own, no problem.

One final thing, there were subtle changes in my relationship with them. I was suddenly in the club, I became part of meetings about certain clients and their situations and here are two experienced CPA's paying attention to what I had to say. I don't do high level accounting but I know taxes. At a seminar I was chatting with a lady who said the same thing. She said her bosses stopped looking at her as the payroll chick and considered her an equal. Not bad for no degree.

Bob


Hammond SK1, Kurzweil PC3, Korg Pa3x, Roland FA06, Band in a Box, Real Band, Studio One, too much stuff...
Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043896 05/15/20 04:38 PM
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Just saw this Dan. Your loyalty to your employer is always seen as an asset, and you're obviously not a jumper. You're gonna get on your feet quick, I know it. And as a wise farmer from Iowa taught me, aint nothing so bad it couldn't be worse. You got this.


Hitting "Play" does NOT constitute live performance. -Me.
Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043920 05/15/20 06:05 PM
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I remember reading a long time ago that the average person changes careers five times in their life. So always have to be open to change I know for me change has been the thing that kept me moving forward over my working life. Skills from one area became assets in others.

Re: OT: well, just lost my job
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The economic recession and high unemployment level were inevitable anyway. And the pandemic just speeded it up. The experts say that approximately 25 million people will lose jobs. So we already see the first results. I am from https://populationstat.com/south-korea/, and it is only the beginning of big changes. We have to learn to live a different life very soon.

Last edited by rtooks; 05/17/20 03:40 PM.
Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3044119 05/16/20 06:37 PM
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Hi Dan,

I am sorry to hear about this. I myself was let go after about 14 years on the job as a computer consultant back in 12-2018. The past year has been rough financially in comparison. About being prepared for an impending layoff: Don't blame yourself ! You are a specialist in your field and you are no doubt a really intelligent guy with transferrable skills. You can take this time to take a good look at all you have to offer potential employers and re-invest in yourself if necessary. No one could have predicted the extent that our country has been affected and this current health crisis has eliminated a lot of positions, both temparily and permanently. As I heard on an interview a couple of weeks ago on Bloomberg news, some employers are using this as an opportunity to cut dead wood from their organizations. So, Barbara Corcoran was advising that we should re-access our and invest in ourselves if necessary. This would be to better compete for available positions once they are made available.

Personally speaking, I think you are an extremely smart and capable guy who should have NO PROBLEM getting hired once positions become available. Ms. Corcoran was mostly referring to slackers or those people who weren't keeping current or making any active contributions to their companies. Again, in that regard ~ from your past post discussing your profession ~ you've seemingly made a great contribution to your company and was a valued employee. So, your layoff no doubt was brought about due to the current pandemic. Take into account, that there is always a posibility that this might be a temporary layoff and you may be asked back.

The only thing I can say in reference to all of this Dan, is that maybe looking into a temporary or permanent remote position might be an option. Are you able to perform aspects of your position remotely, perhapes for another company?

Also, please take into consideration that you have a completely different set of musical realated skills also that you may be able to monitize. Both in the creation of music / sound design and promotional aspects of live entertainment. Once our current situation is over, you may be able to turn these skills into profit as well.

The bottom line Dan is that I know from your post that your an intelligent man and a devoted father. Many people would aspire to all that you have achieved in your life so far. This current health crisis has caught all of us very much off-guard with far reaching personal and financial implications. Right now, it is a bad situation all around. But other types of professional opportunities may start to appear for you, as companies cannot afford to stay "closed" or have a reduced work force for the long term. As a computer consultant, I'm now looking into remote work at the moment (having been let go from a short term temp contract right before the pandemic hit the US).

I'm really sorry for your situation Dan.... sincerly. And if there is anything I may do to assist, I'd like to offer. Please know that your not alone, and that the keyboard community and yours personal friends and family are with you!


~ Anthony

Last edited by AnthonyM; 05/16/20 06:53 PM.
Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3044586 05/18/20 11:46 PM
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Thank you for all the well wishes, support, and advice!

I am fortunate to have many people flooding me with potential leads, though it's become clear that most people probably didn't really understand what I did. My conundrum is that some of them I may be able to do but would basically be practically entry level - that would apply to things like software development, programming, networking, IT....I've never done any of that as a career but have done some on the side including some contract work. If I have to do that, I could, but at entry level would be about 1/3 the income I need based on my current expenses (i.e. Mortgage, Utilities, kids' Tuition and extracuriculars, etc.).

As I'm beginning my job search, I am also preparing to sell the house before potential foreclosure has a chance to catch up with me. I spent a good part of my career with a fairly specific focus and anything outside of that focus will likely not yield the same level of income. That said, I do have a couple leads that would be up my alley. Either way, I have to simultaneously prepare for the possibility that I may have to live on a lesser income when things were already tight, and those kinds of changes are difficult to make over night.

Even adding a second income like a band with significant income isn't something that can happen overnight. Assuming you can find the right bunch of people, it takes a bit to get it off the ground, and then you don't just hit the ground making good money. I spend several years building the aforementioned 80s band to the point where the income was significant.

Finally, after being out of the job market so long, I'm feeling a bit of another condundrum. I feel like you only get one first impression. With some opportunities I want to jump in and make sure I don't miss out, but at the same time I want to make sure that my resume and messaging is as good as it can be to ensure I make the best first impression and get the interview. It doesn't help that I'm still caught up in the whirlwind of getting a personal vehicle registered and getting all of my accounts and online presence updated with new contact info and working on Cobra, Unemployment, etc...figuring out if the kids should go on my Cobra with the company contribution gone or on my Ex wife's which had not previously been the best option but may be now. My head is still spinning with all this.

Finally, the company did provide 2 months of a service with an agency that offers job search and other services to aid in finding a new job, so I'll definitely be reaching out to them.


Dan

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.
Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3044591 05/19/20 12:05 AM
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Hey Dan,

Thanks for the update. I and many here are thinking of you and hoping the best for you.

I've been there more than once, and while it makes you stronger (a la Nietzche and that overused "what doesn't kill you..."), I wouldn't wish it on anyone else.

What little I can offer you is: You've entered the mental maelstrom of competing considerations. I found it hard to keep it all straight at times. Required vs. urgent vs. long term consequences vs. what do i do next.

Try to maintain discipline in your life and habits, and be rigorous about starting your morning early, and with time to settle your head and heart and prepare for this day's maelstrom. You'll make plenty of great decisions, and a few that in hindsight might have been better if you'd gone with the other option. Give yourself a break for those now.

Most important thing (IMHO) is to take control of the energy you bring into EVERY engagement. Be positive, vibrant, quick, energetic and seeking to build others up - every time you walk into the "room". Plenty of things you won't be able to control - but that you can ALWAYS control. Jack Welch said you start the hiring search with integrity and intelligence as non-negotiables - so bring that in spades, and then differentiate yourself from every other candidate they'll consider.

I'm sure you'll get plenty more great advice from folks around here. Hope my little 0.02 is useful to you.

Hoping the very best outcome for you.

Tim


"I'm not just untalented. I'm multi untalented."
Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3044601 05/19/20 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted by J. Dan
As I'm beginning my job search, I am also preparing to sell the house before potential foreclosure has a chance to catch up with me.


Before you sell be sure to check out rents where you plan to live, a lot of places now the rents are higher than mortgage payments.

Re: OT: well, just lost my job
Docbop #3044610 05/19/20 01:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Docbop
Originally Posted by J. Dan
As I'm beginning my job search, I am also preparing to sell the house before potential foreclosure has a chance to catch up with me.


Before you sell be sure to check out rents where you plan to live, a lot of places now the rents are higher than mortgage payments.

But in a foreclosure I would likely lose my equity. The plan would be to buy a smaller house with a smaller mortgage. If I have to rent for a short while is fine, but my mortgage was already too high as I still have the house from when I was married that I bought her out of in the divorce. We originally split the mortgage and utilities between 2 incomes and then by buying her out of her half of equity, my mortgage went UP and I pay the higher mortgage and all the utilities. I had planned to eventually sell it but this expedites the process. Problem is that it was built in 1910 and has lots of little projects to be done to put it on the market and I don't have the budget. It's a 3 story, 5 BR, 3-1/2 bath. I'd like to downsize to a 3 BR, 1-1/2 bath - single story is fine if the basement can be used for practice space. Mortgage-wise - half the house. I was already fighting off foreclosure because a big part of my business was oil & gas in the Permian Basin (west TX) and with prices crashing, my variable income crashed. My business in other industries was keeping me afloat until this Covid-19 stuff, then that crashed as well, and the rest is history.

Long story short, If I can at least get a decent price and get all my equity out, it will be worth it if I have to pay a bit higher rent until I get a new house, but likely I would pay less rent. I've looked at it before and I can find suitable places to rent at half what I'm paying in mortgage, property tax, and insurance per month.


Dan

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.
Re: OT: well, just lost my job
timwat #3044616 05/19/20 01:26 AM
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Originally Posted by timwat
Hey Dan,

Thanks for the update. I and many here are thinking of you and hoping the best for you.

I've been there more than once, and while it makes you stronger (a la Nietzche and that overused "what doesn't kill you..."), I wouldn't wish it on anyone else.

What little I can offer you is: You've entered the mental maelstrom of competing considerations. I found it hard to keep it all straight at times. Required vs. urgent vs. long term consequences vs. what do i do next.

Try to maintain discipline in your life and habits, and be rigorous about starting your morning early, and with time to settle your head and heart and prepare for this day's maelstrom. You'll make plenty of great decisions, and a few that in hindsight might have been better if you'd gone with the other option. Give yourself a break for those now.

Most important thing (IMHO) is to take control of the energy you bring into EVERY engagement. Be positive, vibrant, quick, energetic and seeking to build others up - every time you walk into the "room". Plenty of things you won't be able to control - but that you can ALWAYS control. Jack Welch said you start the hiring search with integrity and intelligence as non-negotiables - so bring that in spades, and then differentiate yourself from every other candidate they'll consider.

I'm sure you'll get plenty more great advice from folks around here. Hope my little 0.02 is useful to you.

Hoping the very best outcome for you.

Tim

Great advice. Based on my own personality, how I think, and how I attack problems, I've pretty much settled on a plan moving forward. I work well with clearly defined goals, objectives, and action items. In my Engineering Management studies, when it comes to project management, as an example, we use gant charts to figure out dependencies and timelines. I've receive tips and leads, need to work out some variations on a resume, update various sites with contact info, as well as do some other logistical things to be able to efficiently function on my personal hardware/softwar after giving up the company resources I had been using.

So first, I'm going to create a spreadsheet to compile all of the potential job opportunities from various sources including LinkedIn, Email, FB Messenger, here, text, etc along with links to company web sites, descriptions, skills, rankings regarding my qualifications, favorability, pay scale, and some indication of appropriate resume. I'm going to develop a few resumes and figure out if one of the standard versions will work for each or if it needs modifications. I will also list every possible reference for each opportunity and reach out to them. From there I will prioritize and work my way down the list pursuing each with the assets deemed necessary.

Separately, I'm working on a list of logistics. Some of it is a remaining list of accounts to update with contact info. Some of it is as simple as updating my LinkedIn Profile picture. Much of it is compiling a list of resume building and job search workshops and education. Part of it is upgrading my home computer on as little budget as possible to increase my efficiency. And then finally, there's all that personal stuff regarding the house, insurance, unemployment, notifying banks and others of my employment status and working out any deals I can, etc.

So I'm going to try to take a very detailed, methodical, logical, reasonable approach to this, because I seem to be more productive when I can start my day with a clear set of goals and accomplishments to achieve for the day.


Dan

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.
Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3045349 05/22/20 06:25 PM
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That last post alone is why any employer (at least, any one with half a brain) would want you on their team.

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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3045374 05/22/20 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by J. Dan
I seem to be more productive when I can start my day with a clear set of goals and accomplishments to achieve for the day.

I concur. Also, not having a hangover helps tremendously. (Don't ask me how I know this facepalm .)


A reason why I collect old keyboards is that I feel partly responsible for doing it, responsible for preserving history and being a custodian for these things
Plus, old gear has a story. I like that.
Re: OT: well, just lost my job
davedoerfler #3045379 05/22/20 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by davedoerfler
Originally Posted by J. Dan
I seem to be more productive when I can start my day with a clear set of goals and accomplishments to achieve for the day.

I concur. Also, not having a hangover helps tremendously. (Don't ask me how I know this facepalm .)
I've always said that the secret to success is to set achievable goals. For example, my goal for tomorrow is to not start it with a hangover.

Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3045416 05/23/20 03:09 AM
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Dan, we're in a crowded market but don't let that discourage you. Probably the best words I received is although a door had been closed, a better one may open. Sometimes things happen for a reason we can't see right away. Your project management experience is a marketable skill that is in demand.

I have marketable skills and I don't expect to have much trouble finding a new job. I had worked 14 years for a company that valued their employees, but the collapsed economy hurt and they had to let go of hundreds of employees. Luckily I'm single with no kids, no house to sell (I was renting), so I can easily pull up and relocate.

Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3045421 05/23/20 03:20 AM
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I continue to be blown away by the support not just here but through Facebook, email, text, etc. I have past customers sharing opportunities at their own companies when makes me feel good because obviously they think highly enough to trust me to fill positions at their own companies. If nothing else, I feel grateful for the outpouring of support. Thank you everybody!


Dan

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.
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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3045428 05/23/20 04:00 AM
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