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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043534 05/13/20 01:10 PM
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Really sorry to hear this Dan. Your need to stay local makes it all the more difficult, but not insurmountable. Much respect for your parental obligations - hang in there.

KC Island
Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043536 05/13/20 01:23 PM
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Very sorry to hear that. My manager has been trying to get me fired (wrote me up to HR, first step in doing so)...she's been working there 6 months, I have 16 years. She wants to put her thing down and build her own team. At least if I was laid off I'd get severance...so now I have to be a model citizen despite her shenanigans and awful management "skills" and provocations (she is a veteran of political wars, I just like to work) and try to stave it off.

Unfortunately for what I do (database programmer) the market has dried up; I was looking before this hit and the amount of recruiters contacting me,and job openings I found for myself, is way, way less now. One big change for me is that I'm now considering contract and especially contract-to-hire positions; up til now I was focused on replacing my perm position with another perm position. Hardly any companies hire directly anymore seems like.

Last edited by Stokely; 05/13/20 01:24 PM.
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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043539 05/13/20 01:39 PM
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I’m sorry to hear about this Dan. Thoughts are with you.

Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043541 05/13/20 01:48 PM
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sorry to hear this. good luck and hang in there, really hope things will get better.

Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043544 05/13/20 02:12 PM
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Dan,

Once you hit bottom, you can only bounce up. With your skill set and street smarts I’m sure this will pass quickly.

Jake


1967 B-3 w/(2) 122's, Nord C1w/Leslie 2101 top, Nord PedalKeys 27, Nord Electro 4D, IK B3X, QSC K12.2, Yamaha reface YC+CS+CP

"It needs a Hammond"
Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043548 05/13/20 02:47 PM
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Dan I have been through that shit two times and I was older each time. Things are incredibly tough, especially being middle aged in the work force. Let us know how everything is going.


"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"


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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043549 05/13/20 02:48 PM
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Sorry to hear this Dan. I hope you find a better job quickly.

Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043550 05/13/20 02:54 PM
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So sorry to hear this Dan. I was there in 2008 when the job market wasn't pretty. These are tough time but you got this. Hang in there.

Last edited by Mike Martin; 05/13/20 02:54 PM.
Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043560 05/13/20 04:03 PM
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Dan and the others: I feel for each of you. Been there before several times over the decades. First time was in my 20's with a pregnant wife. Did some work I really didn't care for a few months, studies for my FCC License each night, moved a hundred miles or so and helped put a new TV station on the air. Second was in retail (camera) sales, went back to TV station which was under different ownership. Third was late 30's when I had voluntarily left the Voice of America transmitting station for a new Christian TV permit holder not yet on air. Six months later, they ran out of money, and had to let us go. Opened my own full time business then, started looking for a job again, three years later realized I didn't need a job. All the bills were paid, I was enjoying myself more working for me. Did have to change fields in my work several times as one thing died another would arise. Then I got tired of the constant travel in my business and took a senior position with a local hospital in IT. Eleven months later, they decided to outsource, and I left them the day they announced it for a position that paid a lot more helping to build the Navy-Marine Corps Computer Network. With them for three years, working for a Small Business that was hiring me out to the prime contractor. They decided to replace all of our high level positions with their own people, and I was unemployed at age 61. Wife was working but still not enough to finish paying for the home in Southeastern Virginia. Did six months as a Real Estate Agent, sold ONE house in that time. It was my home. Moved 150 miles back to eastern NC small town, made enough on the house to buy my present house and have it fully paid. Went back into my own business again. Took Social Security early, still running the business, and happy as a lark

Keep at it, look for opportunity, realize that you may not have to work for someone else if you are willing to push yourself like a boss would push you. It can and does get better.


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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043566 05/13/20 04:53 PM
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Sorry to hear, Dan, Mark, and anyone else affected. Best wishes going forward.

Dan, this will be a good learning experience for your kids too. I know you've been bonding with them recently already with the quarantine but they'll see yet another side of you. It's in no way your fault, remember that. Reach out if you need help.


Eric
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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043577 05/13/20 05:50 PM
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Just wanted to add that I started my own consulting business 35 years ago, after I realized that I was making money for other people, why not make it for myself? I had a business partner who really started us off. You don't get benefits or vacation time or health insurance, you have to pay self-employment taxes, you have no job security, you have to market yourself and your business, but there's nothing better than being your own boss. I've been fired by clients and I've had to fire clients. I just retired and closed up the business. I wouldn't trade the last 35 years working for myself to be working for someone else. Not everybody's knowledge and skills can translate into their own business. But if it's a possibility for you [all of you in this situation] I strongly suggest you consider it. It takes a leap of faith to jump off the cliff, and it may require a period of bare bones living, but if you can make it work eventually, you will always be glad you did. And even if it doesn't work, I still think you will be glad you tried. You will learn a lot and it may well lead to your next job, one you like and are well-qualified for.

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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043594 05/13/20 07:24 PM
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Dan, not sure what all your background is as far as the technical stuff you do.

However, I will send you a link via private message. My company has open positions. Most in Ohio, some in mid west...


David
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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043614 05/13/20 09:51 PM
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Sorry Dan, here's hoping you fall forward.


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My latest album: Funky organ, huge horn section
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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043633 05/14/20 12:06 AM
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That’s Rough Dan.

Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043650 05/14/20 01:56 AM
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Dan, I don't know you other than through your forum posts, but because of them, I've come to respect and like you. So if you can make that kind of impression via a text-only medium, I'm sure you'd come across as the straight shooter you are when doing interviews, in person or online. I hate to resort to cliches, but everything happens for a reason. I think your gig for right now is to figure out what that reason is, and run with it.

At NAMM one year I saw someone who I sensed was having some kind of problem. For some reason I felt compelled to go up to him. He opened up about killing himself, and was debating the best way to do it. He was no longer with his wife, who had pulled his daughter away from him, which had broken his heart. He didn't have a job. He had no savings left. He felt he had no future.

For some reason, I said "You never know how a movie's going to end. Things will be different in a year."

Amazingly, I saw him a year later at NAMM, at an industry breakfast. He had a good gig, had become close to his daughter again, was with an outstanding girlfriend, and he was smiling.

See you in a year smile

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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043654 05/14/20 03:08 AM
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To echo Craig's thought, one of my favourite song lyrics ever is from a song called "Le répondeur" by Les Colocs (translated):

"Yesterday, I met a homeless man
Living in the street, nothing to his name
He recited a funny saying
Life is short, but some bits are long"


Eric
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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043659 05/14/20 04:52 AM
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Hey Dan, I’m sorry to hear this has happened to you.

And I haven’t much more to add that hasn’t already been said, but to tell you a couple of things I’ve learned from personal experience climbing out of more than one bottomless pit.

You have received a gift. Call it a gift of time or another chance, but it’s without a doubt a gift of all the wonderful things that would never have happened, had this event not changed the trajectory of your life.

The other thing is “when it’s the right thing, doors open.“ Keep your head up and your mind open.


Rod
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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043679 05/14/20 12:01 PM
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Sorry to hear you lost your job.
I lost my business after the 2008 crisis, so I know how it feels. Keep your head up and don’t be discouraged.
I fear the worst of this whole Corona affair is yet to come.

Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043691 05/14/20 01:31 PM
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Hey, Dan - I'm still relatively new here and haven't posted a lot, but I've gotten a meaningful amount of value out of your posts. I can both sympathize and empathize with your situation, and in reading through this thread, despite the challenge at-hand, it seems pretty cool that you have so many here that are feeling bad right along with you, are trying to help in your next steps, and are looking forward to celebrating with you once you've started on your next opportunity. Good luck!


Nord Stage 3 HA88, Nord Stage 3 Compact, Radial Key Largo, Westone AM Pro 30, Rolls PM55P, K&M 18880 + 18881, Bose S1 Pro, JBL 305p MKII, Zoom Q2n-4K
Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043693 05/14/20 01:41 PM
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Hang in their brother! Things will get better!


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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043709 05/14/20 03:21 PM
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Sorry to hear about this Dan. I've only experienced it once (thankfully) and I was kinda asking for it when it happened. Basically I had been the boss man doing many rounds of layoffs and it was my time...one can only do that so long before it gets soul crushing. Oddly enough it was during my couple months off that I first joined this forum. I eventually found a great job (back doing technical work instead of management smile ) where I have been for 12.5 years now. So two really good things came out of it.

This is not to minimize what you face. Times are tough and I wish you all the best luck. All the advice about staying positive about yourself is spot on. Based on your thoughtful input in this forum, I'm sure you were a valued employee (15 years is an eternity in this era.)

I'm not a fan of common bromides...but if you need some sober inspiration, try Viktor Frankl's "Man's Search for Meaning." One of the fundamental tenets is that no one gets out of this life without suffering...but it is important to give your suffering meaning. This book was enormously helpful for me when I was having some life struggles a couple decades ago. In that vein, I want to compliment you for being so open about your situation. You have already made some good out of this by warning folks about tying personal business to work email.

Be well.

Last edited by Sam Mullins; 05/14/20 03:24 PM.

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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043719 05/14/20 03:44 PM
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JDan, if you haven't done this already, set up a profile on LinkedIn. This is where a vast amount of recruiting is done, every day. Even in these crazy times, people are looking for skilled & experienced professionals. And now, companies are casting a much broader net. For example, I wouldn't hesitate to hire someone from anywhere in the country, with my types of positions you don't need to be living in the same vicinity anymore. (remote work might not fit your role type?)

Get someone to review your profile, take their feedback and make adjustments.

Reach out to your network, ask for recommendations, ask to put them on your LinkedIn profile. I imagine many folks on this forum know you well enough to give you a recommendation. I would.

Start data mining LinkedIn and Indeed, find roles that match your experience, reach out to those firms, start chipping away. You'll get better and better as you go.

Prepare yourself with mock interviews. That should be a snap, as all this is happening via Zoom and other similar services. One tip - get proficient at concise answers! Avoid long and drawn out answers unless it's absolutely required to dive deep.

You may have all this already wired... good luck.


soundcloud.com/stream
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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043740 05/14/20 06:28 PM
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Dan - it’s admirable to be prioritizing your kids at this difficult time. Although it can make things even more challenging at this point, it’ll also make it all more rewarding in the end.


Joe
Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043742 05/14/20 06:43 PM
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Sincere commiserations, Dan. It’s bad enough to lose your job, but so much worse to have it happen unexpectedly.
I’ve also just today heard we’re facing redundancies at my college - and the criteria make me eminently eligible for the chop.
It’s an awful time we’re going through. But judging from your posts, you’re definitely a smart cat. You’ll land on your feet, brother. No doubt.

Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043749 05/14/20 07:01 PM
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So sorry to hear this news, Dan. I'll be praying for your success in landing a new job that fits all your needs. If it's any consolation, I was in your spot about 11 years ago. I ended up in a much better job with a company that actually seems to appreciate my contributions. Hang in there, brother.


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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043753 05/14/20 07:09 PM
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So sorry to hear this from Dan and Mark. I was just going to suggest Linkedin as well and once you're set up, post the link here. Just like Escape Rocks said, his company has openings so you never know what may pop up out of this forum and any other social media platforms you hang out at. A couple of things I want to mention and they're only comments and suggestions. First, do not tap into your retirement money, leave it alone. Second be aware the credit card companies are nervous too. You may have a couple of cards with 10-15K limits and think you can use them as a bridge to hold you over until...you get a letter saying they've reduced your limit to $3,000 or simply cancel it. The CC companies got burned bad in 2008 so they're watching for sudden large usage of their cards in the middle of a crisis.

This brings me to a tax point. When things get bad and the CC companies write off bad debts you get a 1099 C and what the heck is that? it's Cancellation of Debt Income. COD is income because you got a taxable benefit for whatever goods and services you received including a mortgage. In 2008 Congress temporarily excluded mortgages from that requirement but not credit cards so suddenly someone has to include 15K of credit card debt that was written off as additional income on their tax return. This is only one of many reasons why myself and some others keep saying yes this virus is bad but a serious recession or depression could be worse. There are so many ways the shutdown of the economy could bite us very hard financially, emotionally and everyway else.

Bob


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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043764 05/14/20 07:54 PM
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Sorry to both Dan and Mark. One thing that particularly sucks about this is that I know Dan (and most likely Mark as well) could make a decent income from gigs, except now they can't. Dan used to make tons in That 80s Band when he first joined us. I bet he could get something ramped up if that were an option. Sigh.

That does tell me that Dan can get something going. He's a deep, dedicated worker at whatever he puts himself into. (Probably Mark as well! wink )

You guys know where to find me/us if you want some support or to chat or whatever. thu


The great thing about music is that there's always something to learn. The frustrating thing about music is that there's always something to learn!
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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043798 05/14/20 11:16 PM
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Dan and Mark, so very sorry to hear about your situations! I have no advice to offer that hasn't been given above, but I really sympathize. Until March, I pretty much had 3 streams of income, I worked part time in music retail, was self-employed doing recording, mixing, audio production and teaching through my studio, and worked as a contractor for a live sound company doing sound, stage and lights for festivals, theaters, concerts, etc. Oh yeah, there was also the meagre income from playing gigs. The live sound work is mostly seasonal, we worked a lot from June-October, and had one of our biggest seasons ever on the books for 2020. With the quarantine, the store closed temporarily, most of my studio work disappeared, and almost all of our events for the season were cancelled, with the rest very likely to be as well. And all the gigs I had booked to play are cancelled, of course. I really did not expect this, I have always figured that I was diversified enough to survive whatever happened, but not this.

I'm 58, and to be honest, I don't know if I have the means to re-invent myself yet again, though I have done so several times throughout my so-called career. I worked for about 12 years developing educational software, first for a university, then for a textbook publisher. That job disappeared in 2007, and I was left with a fairly specific skill-set that had no demand in the market, and was tens of thousands of dollars in debt. At that point, I was sick of the academic and business worlds, and doubled down on working in sound and music. I'd done pretty well also, until March.

At this point, at least I have relatively little debt, my wife and I paid off our house in January, and she has a steady income from early retirement, so we will survive. But it's not what I intended at this point in my life.


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Hop, flop, squawk
It's a keeper
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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043799 05/14/20 11:25 PM
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Thank you for sharing your experience Dan, that's gotta be rough. I'll try to provide some optimism. I've done a fair amount of career counseling in my previous gig as a vocational evaluator and will also draw upon research from my experience working in academia.

The #1 predictor of job attainment is job availability. Electrical engineers have historically been in very high demand. I understand the present situation has adversely impacted job availability across a wide-range of occupations, but probably best to be in a field that is high-demand verses low-demand. Here is some information from the Occupational Outlook Handbook you may find useful.

The #2 predictor of job attainment is work ethic, which involves the extent to which one values working, and other personal attributes. I have come to know you as industrious, conscientious, and reliable, representing personality factors that demonstrate relatively strong, positive correlations with high ratings on performance evaluations. Not related to work ethic, you are smart and would probably do well on a pre-selection test involving cognitive ability. All of this combined with your considerable business/sales acumen results in a highly attractive profile.

I would also encourage you to consider using this as an opportunity for short-term, supplemental training. A course in biomedical equipment engineering (an area that would seem to be "hot" for a while) would enhance your already stellar skill set.

Hang in there brother.


"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing."
- George Bernard Shaw
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Re: OT: well, just lost my job
J. Dan #3043827 05/15/20 05:05 AM
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Since we're talking possible career changes, look at me. I was in the car business for years, sales, some management finally an auto broker. There was a big crash, I went through serious life changes so I switched to working at a CPA firm for a guy I had brokered two cars for as a nobody who knew little about taxes other than doing my own returns. I saw opportunity there because they were very busy and growing. Fast forward some years I decided to become an Enrolled Agent licensed by the IRS to represent people at all levels of the agency. The test is not easy, it's all high level tax law stuff. But, the beauty of it is no formal degree or prerequisites needed other than passing a background check. There are only three groups allowed to sign a Power of Attorney with the IRS, CPA's, attorney's and EA's. We all know what it takes to become a CPA or attorney. Here I am at the same level with the IRS as they are with the same authority and same right of representation.

Shortly after I passed the exams a friend who is a CPA/EA who then went to night school and got his Masters in Taxation (he's about the smartest guy I've ever met) asked if he could borrow my books for a friend. His friend passed the exams and within a week got a job at a tax resolution firm starting at 56K a year with no experience. And it still took about about a month before he formally got the certificate from the IRS so he could sign a POA. This was 12 or so years ago. I'm 74 now, I did this when I was 61 or 62 so it's never too late and looking back at it now I should have done it years earlier. The CPA's had encouraged me to go for it but I kept putting it off. Big mistake. Having that license put me at another level and opened up more opportunities because as clients came in with problems, I was able to completely take over the case rather than simply being an assistant. Of course that puts me on the firing line with the IRS too. They were happy to have me do that and once they saw me doing it well, gave me a bigger chunk of the fees. That in turn led to more clients being referred because we were becoming known as being able to handle those kinds of issues, not every CPA is interested in doing that. After the first few cases they stopped closely supervising me and I just handled it. Of course I kept them in the loop and it's stupid to not use two good CPA's as a resource but this is my department. That's the opportunity I'm talking about here and that's why I'm still handling those cases now in semi retirement. To me what I did is nothing special, anybody here can do the same thing if they're inclined to do it. And there's every opportunity to go on your own, no problem.

One final thing, there were subtle changes in my relationship with them. I was suddenly in the club, I became part of meetings about certain clients and their situations and here are two experienced CPA's paying attention to what I had to say. I don't do high level accounting but I know taxes. At a seminar I was chatting with a lady who said the same thing. She said her bosses stopped looking at her as the payroll chick and considered her an equal. Not bad for no degree.

Bob


Hammond SK1, Kurzweil PC3, Korg Pa3x, Roland FA06, Band in a Box, Real Band, Studio One, too much stuff...
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