M-Audio Hammer 8 anyone?

[johnchop]

Has anyone out there laid hands on the M-Audio Hammer 88? I've seen the Woody's Piano Shack review. The only concern I heard there was the slightly sharp key edges that might make glissandos a bit uncomfortable.

 

The Hammer 88 has been out a while, so I'm curious about issues after long-term use. I know M-Audio has a rep for somewhat cheap construction, but I have a CTRL49 controller that is serving me very well for what I paid.

 

For perspective: I've been selling off old gear that wasn't really working for me. I'm now searching for a sub-$1K weighted controller/DP with the following:

 

- Has USB MIDI out

- 88 or 76 keys

- Relatively light action. My hands just aren't that strong at this point, and I want to get in and play, not fight. The newer Roland actions I've tried (RD2000) are too ponderous, and the TP/100 variants feel a bit mushy (e.g. SL Studio). Something along the lines of the MODX8 and Kawai ES feel is fine.

- This is primarily for piano/EP control. The CTRL49 works for synths and anything involving aftertouch expression.

 

I realize there are a ton of compromises when you head south of $1,500, but I think my needs are fairly simple.

 

Thanks all!

-John

[SamuelBLupowitz]

Following this thread with interest.

[ElmerJFudd]

can't offer info, but if looking at an MAudio 88K controller, may as well also look the Akai

https://www.akaipro.com/mpk-road-88-mpkroad88xus

 

Scratch that - looks like this model has been recalled and discontinued. Very strange, must have been pretty bad.

[davinwv]

I bought a Hammer 88 about a year ago for $306.00 in the Amazon Warehouse (a screaming deal!). I really liked it, but in the end, I would have needed a new case that would have cost more than the keyboard itself. It felt much better/lighter and less sluggish than my SL88 Studio (which I still own).

 

I just found a deal on a Gator hardshell case in the Amazon Warehouse for $186.00 versus $440.00 new, so I am now auditioning the Hammer 88 again and the new Roland A-88mkII. Unfortunately, my A-88mkII arrived from Sweetwater damaged yesterday with the end control portion almost completely detached from the main chassis of the unit, so it will be a few days before I receive a replacement.

 

I'll be sure to post here again with some observations of both controllers.

[SamuelBLupowitz]

can't offer info, but if looking at an MAudio 88K controller, may as well also look the Akai

https://www.akaipro.com/mpk-road-88-mpkroad88xus

 

Scratch that - looks like this model has been recalled and discontinued. Very strange, must have been pretty bad.

Huh, interesting! I remember taking note of that model when it came out, and that wasn't too long ago. That's why it's smart to not pull the trigger too fast sometimes...

[johnchop]

Yeah that AKAI is also 50+ pounds I believe. Zoiks.

 

The A88 could be worth a look. Weight isn"t bad (~35 lbs). I"m concerned the current Roland PHA4 action would blow up my hands though.

 

Appreciate any other comments/thoughts.

[Stokely]

My old Studiologic 990 finally died (mid-90s model) so I'm in the market also. Problem is, that old controller had a nice TP-40 fatar action and I don't want to go backward! I paid 125 bucks for it used in '95 or so...and got a midi interface with it, you talk about bang for buck. I've used it regularly until this year!

 

Thinking of maybe getting the SL Grand 88, which is likely similar to what I had (maybe nicer actually). If they had the Grand action in the smaller 73 key form, I'd be all over it. That would be best of both worlds.

 

Also considering a Kawai ES110, which is (probably) not as nice--but it would have two advantages: quick practice with its own sounds, and much lighter if I wanted to gig with it (if I ever gig again). My original plan before this Virus hit was to sell my Electro (done) and get a Stage compact (on hold)--for certain gigs I might bring out either a controller to play the Stage pianos, or a digital piano and use its own sounds if they sounded good.

 

Korg D1 is on my radar too, I reckon it has nicer action than almost any controller near that price--but I don't like having no pitch or mod wheel. WTF....

 

Whatever I get will have an actual midi port on it, so that rules out a few controllers and digital pianos. I can deal with no usb as my interface has midi--but if I ever want to use it at gigs it needs midi, don't want to have to get any kind of adapter (more stuff to bring and set up).

 

Edit: worth noting if you get Guitar Center sales emails...Kawai was one of the few manufacturers that participated in the last big coupon I received...now expired. I really regret not getting the ES110 then.

[ElmerJFudd]

How sophisticated a controller do you need?

If you"re going laptop with MainStage or similar, you can do all your splitting and layering in the software. Do you need a pitch and mod wheel? Anything else?

[Joe Muscara]

I haven't played it but Peter and Adam of Open Studio use two of these on their You'll Hear It podcast and I have to admit that it sounds pretty good.

[aellison62]

I had an M-audio hammer 88 for about 6 months. To me the action was quite heavy and sluggish. I ended up selling it. I then bought a Studiologic SL-88 studio, didn't get along with that either, sold it.

 

Finally bought the RD-88 to use as 88 key controller along with it having thousands of ZenCore sounds (and the supernatural piano) . I am happy with the PHA-4 standard action on it. Done.

[johnchop]

Jelmerfudd: Pitch and mod are a big plus, but main drivers are weight and relatively light action. I"ve got other widgets for software control, and everything is software, so I don"t need any controller functions.

 

Aellison: interesting! I"ve seen a number of opinions that the m-audio is 'light' compared to other actions, but there you go.

 

I do need to give the RD88 a go. It"s way more than I need, a bit more than I want to spend, and I"m not too hopeful about the action, but I may check it out regardless. I"m following the RD88 thread here with interest.

 

I think my favorite Roland weighted action was on the FP..30? Some model from 3-4 years ago. For me, played like buttah. I also recall the TP40 on the Kurz PC3X when I demo"ed that. I doubt I can lay hands on the SL88 grand, but if it"s in a similar league, it"s tempting.

[johnchop]

Correction... not the fp30. Might be thinking of an fp4.

[Stokely]

SL Studio is not the same action as the SL Grand. The latter should be much nicer and quicker, at least going by other TP-100 actions (which I believe is what is in the SL Studio, I haven't actually played one since they weren't in any stores around me). My old controller felt great with piano--maybe lighter than some prefer--but worked very well for synth. Mine had no aftertouch.

 

Keep in mind the TP-40 action comes at a cost of weight The SL Grand is 45 pounds.

[johnchop]

Understood about the TP40, and yes, both SL studio versions have the TP100.

[mynameisdanno]

I've really enjoyed the Kawai ES110 in the sub-$1k, weighted 88 slab, not-too-heavy-action space. Had one bouncing around in the back of a single axle trailer on its end for about ten weeks worth of van touring, held up great and I never got tired of the action. I was using it as a controller for Nord Stage 2 SW73 pianos. The built-in speakers and sounds and 5-pin MIDI are surplus to your requirements, but might come in handy some day.

 

I've read a lot of raves about the Privia PX-S3000 as well, and in the five minutes or so of music store time, I've enjoyed the action just fine. I was considering buying one as a flyable-checked-in-a-rifle-case 88 controller solution, but the Current Unpleasantness has eliminated the need for one of those, for the time being...

[johnchop]

I"ve tried the PX1000... actually ranked just below the Roland action for me, but it sure does a lot of things right for being so small.

 

The ES110 lacks the USB MIDI but could otherwise work. This may sound odd, but I had a hard time getting my ES6 to gel as a controller, even with my low-latency setup. That board sometimes lagged triggering its own internal sounds, especially with a lot of simultaneous notes. Perhaps it was specific to my board. Kawai does make a great action though.

 

Anyway, this thread has made me pause on leaping into the Hammer 88. I really don"t want to go through the hassle of a return, so I"ll just take my time and get more hands on.

[Mighty Motif Max]

That board sometimes lagged triggering its own internal sounds, especially with a lot of simultaneous notes. Perhaps it was specific to my board.

 

Interestingly enough I can get my Motif XF8 to do the same. Drives me nuts when it happens. I think it might not be a processing problem as much as it is the tone generator deciding what notes to drop for polyphony usage. Mainly happens on bass/piano/ep plus pad setups. It"s like it gets overwhelmed. It"s the one thing I dislike about that board. None of my other gear does it.

[Fleer]

If not RD-88, then Roland"s FP-10 could be a contender. Same action.

[RandyFF]

I really don"t want to go through the hassle of a return, so I"ll just take my time and get more hands on.

 

If you're able to buy from a store near you, you can just bring the board back to the store and not have to hassle with shipping.

 

And there are a number of shops that have 45 day return windows

[johnchop]

Possibly. I don"t live in a gear-rich location but could stomach a drive to ATL should that be necessary.

[stoken6]

I'd probably pick any number of DPs over that M-Audio. Kawai ES110 is a good suggestion, also check out Yamaha P45/125 (or P121 if you want 73 keys), Casio PX-S1000 and CDP-S100. The Yamahas have the same GHS action as the MODX8 (disclaimer: the same model designation can apply to multiple revisions, and can feel different in different installations).

 

Cheers, Mike.

[johnchop]

Thanks Mike. Yeah I"m realizing that"s where the discussion keeps going. And I think I"ll have an easier time lying hands on the low end DPs at a local shop compared to a dedicated controller.

[Stokely]

Well, rats--I just realized the Kawai es110 doesn't have mod/pitch wheels either....that was my stated reason for preferring it over the Korg D1! I've got a nanokontrol that can work for that anyway, and I'll eventually get a synth or organ action keyboard with aftertouch to supplement, so not a show stopper.

 

At the risk of derailing (though I think these are two prime contenders for the OP)--any thoughts on actions between those two? I realize the D1 has the more top-end action on paper, but I frankly don't remember enough from my few times plinking on a Kronos to recall how nice it was. And I've never even seen an ES110 in person. I have played briefly on both an MP11 and ES8, those were very nice but I know that's a different beast.

 

I tend to prefer a lighter action probably because I grew up with a older worn-in light action upright and synths, rarely have I ever played an expensive acoustic. I really like the Nord Piano action I tried for example.

[johnchop]

D1=RH3 which I always found to be a clunky action.

 

Current contenders, as I think you all have talked me out of a dedicated controller:

 

FP10 (thanks Fleer) which does NOT have the RD2000 action... the PHA4 may be more agreeable. I do love the Ivory Feel on this series.

 

P121 - because it"s smaller and may be 'just right'

 

ES110 - because I had an ES6 which was fine, and I can deal with the lack of USB MIDI if this is the best option (I"ve got a mio2 interface)

 

Dang, I"m Goldilocks.

 

(The SL73 Studio hits a lot of the requirements but I remain wary of the TP100. Will think on it.)

[Al Quinn]

I have a PX-3000 and have played the P125, ES110, and M-Audio Hammer 88. I don"t recall if I"ve played an FP10.

 

For your requirements I"d probably go with a P121 (same action as P125). The action is very good.

 

The ES110 action is also very good. My impression is that the ES110 action is lighter than the the P121. But I didn"t get to play them side by side, so I"m not certain. I have a 5-pin Midi to USB cable made by Yamaha that I use to adapt a keyboard, that only has 5-pin Midi, to USB and it works fine. So it"s pretty easy to get past the lack of USB (although it adds cost).

 

The PX3000 is fun to play although the action isn"t as good as P121 or ES110. Where the PX3000 struggles is the variation in the amount of pressure required to press a key as your fingers move toward the fall board. It"s a showstopper for classical but I used it on a Classic Rock gig and was fine.

 

I had a tough time expressing myself on the M-Audio Hammer 88. It was a bad experience. The keys didn"t react as expected.

 

You might want to call Sweetwater and tell them what you"re trying to do and that the return shipping cost is driving you to a physical store. Ask them what the return shipping will be in advance of making a purchase. I"ve done this and they"ve worked with me. Doesn"t hurt to ask and it might be appealing if low enough.

[kayriss]

FWIW I was looking at purchasing a D1 recently as my controller board, but I read from another owner that they couldn't get it to send the full MIDI velocity range 1 - 127 (which could've been an issue with that person's D1 however as I heard from another owner that theirs could reach the full range).

 

I'm now looking quite seriously at the ES110 for this purpose. I was really impressed when I played one a few months ago, and I definitely agree with Al Quinn that the action is lighter than the P121. I found I could play expressively during my short play with it.

[Stokely]

My favorite vendor doesn't carry the ES110, and didn't have the D1 in stock and none expected anytime soon...so now I'm waiting on another guitar center coupon so that I can pick up the ES 110. For gigging it's quite a bit lighter than the D1 so that's a plus. The speakers will be convenient for quick practice too.

 

Argh, if I hadn't seen how much the March coupon saved me I wouldn't worry about it, but I'm one of those "I love that shirt but it's not on sale!" people....Kawai being one of the few manufacturers NOT excluded....I should have pulled the trigger.

[Mighty Motif Max]

Bumping this thread. I'm probably going to be picking up the Pro version of this board in the coming weeks. The only thing is, I've never laid hands on one of these and no one ever has one out. I can glean a lot from YouTube videos and reviews, but one thing that I'm still unsure about is the action. I keep hearing it's a light hammer action, and then every once in a while there's someone like our own aellison62 here in this thread that says it's heavy and sluggish. I tend toward lighter/faster, but sturdy/firm hammer actions if possible. Obviously I'm not expecting a world-class hammer action here lol, but something at least on the level of the Yamaha GHS action would be nice.

 

Can anyone who's played the Hammer 88 contrast the action with any of the following?

 

- Yamaha Balanced Hammer (BH) action (Motif XS/XF8, S70/90XS, Montage 8, CP73)

- Yamaha NWX (CP88, P515)

- Yamaha GHS (MOX8, MOXF8, MODX8, MX88, P115, P125, P121, P45)

- Yamaha GH3 (CVP-305/405, maybe other Clavinovas)

- Yamaha NW-GH3 (CP4)

- Yamaha GHE (CP40)

- Roland Ivory Feel G with escapement (FA-08, Juno DS88)

- Roland PHA-50 (RD-2000)

- Fatar TP-100 *as used in* the Nord Electro/Stage HP boards (because implementation varies and that's the only version I've played)

- Korg NH (Krome & Kross 88)

- Kawai RHIII (MP7SE, ES8)

- Casio Tri-sensor Scaled Hammer Action II (PX5S)

- Casio "Tri-sensor Scaled Hammer Action Keyboard II w/Simulated ebony and ivory keys" (PX-560)

- Casio Smart Scaled Hammer Action (PX-S1000/3000)

 

I need to have a reference point for its quickness and solidity (i.e. speed and feel). For reference I'm happy with the speed and response of the Yamaha BH and GHS, and the Kawai RHIII, while I find the Nord TP-100, Roland Ivory Feel G, and Korg NH to be slow and mushy, to the point where I would avoid them. IIRC the GHE is plasticky but not mushy, and the NW-GH3 (CP4) was not my favorite. Straight GH3 is heavy (I grew up with it). I find the NWX to be a stiff, heavy action, and the PHA-50 to be very unusual feeling - loose but slow. The Casio Tri-Sensor Hammer Action II variants I find kind of in the other extreme - fast, but plasticky and loose. And then the PX-S1000/3000 Smart Scaled Hammer Action is super unpleasant for me *personally* (as has been debated endlessly).

 

I played the Korg RH3 once on a Grandstage, but I don't remember enough about how it felt to include that.

 

Thanks to anyone who can compare the Hammer 88 to *any* of those. Much appreciated!

[Fleer]

Kurz SP6 all the way.

[Mighty Motif Max]

Kurz SP6 all the way.

Are you recommending that to the OP, or saying that's what the action feels like? Thanks!