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What is your keyboard recording chain?


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There"s an old-school principle that to a mixer (or audio interface) everything should look like a microphone. There"s also a lot of variation between keyboards of how hot the line-level output signal is with the volume knob maxed. When recording keyboards, what is your preferred method? Into a direct box, then a mic preamp on your interface? Straight into the line-level inputs on your audio interface? Something in the middle such as a mixer whose gain structure you like? Different signal chains for different instruments? Sound off!

Stephen Fortner

Principal, Fortner Media

Former Editor in Chief, Keyboard Magazine

Digital Piano Consultant, Piano Buyer Magazine

 

Industry affiliations: Antares, Arturia, Giles Communications, MS Media, Polyverse

 

 

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I don't own any analog synths, so for a digital instrument - good quality 1/4" instrument cable, not too long, direct into line level input on an interface that sounds good as is. Lately, I have been impressed with the Apogee Quartet, really sounds clean. My S90ES has SPDIF out and I used to bother with that, but 90% volume out the analogues to the Quartet sounds great.

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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I'm not sure how helpful my answer will be to your question, because most of the time, my recorded keyboards look like microphones to my interface because, well, they are -- I'm miking up a guitar amp for an electric piano or clav, a Leslie for organ (even clones), or the soundboard of an acoustic piano. The only piano available at the studio where we made my first solo record in 2012 was a home digital, but the engineer actually put a stereo pair of mics below the built-in speakers -- I thought he was crazy, but the combination of air and bleed from the drum kit six feet away made those piano tracks sound much more convincingly "acoustic" than the DI signal was.

 

For digital instruments, nine times out of ten I'm recording MIDI data instead of built in sounds. However, an analog synth running direct into a console or interface seems to sit just right with very little fiddling for my taste, when I have the pleasure of recording an analog synth.

Samuel B. Lupowitz

Musician. Songwriter. Food Enthusiast. Bad Pun Aficionado.

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Nord Electro 5D, volume at noon â (optionally: Strymon Volante) â 1/4" into the line inputs of my MOTU Audio Express. Works for my purposes so far! First thing in my channel strip in Logic once I start to mix is either the Arturia 73-Pre or the Softube Trident A emulation, and then into either the Waves SSL or the Softube Grand Channel.

My Site

Nord Electro 5D, Novation Launchkey 61, Logic Pro X, Mainstage 3, lots of plugins, fingers, pencil, paper.

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I use a Focusrite Saffire Pro 14 interface. MODX7 into inputs 1 and 2 on the front, for stereo recording. On my back wall are 9 keyboards, which are routed into a Mackie SR24-4, which is then routed to inputs 3 and 4 on the Focusrite. The MODX7 is also connected to my PC via USB as a MIDI controller. The keyboards on the back wall are MIDI'd to a MIDIPlus 4x4 interface, which is also connected to the PC. I can then control the boards on the back wall from the MODX7 through my DAW (Reason.)

Hardware

Yamaha MODX7, DX7, PSR-530, SY77/Korg TR-Rack, 01/W Pro X, Trinity Pro X, Karma/Ensoniq ESQ-1, VFX-SD

Behringer DeepMind12, Model D, Odyssey, 2600/Roland RD-1000/Arturia Keylab MKII 61

 

Software

Studio One/V Collection 9/Korg Collection 4/Cherry Audio/UVI SonicPass/EW Composer Cloud/Omnisphere, Stylus RMX, Trilian/IK Total Studio 3.5 MAX/Roland Cloud

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I'd like a mixer, but haven't at the moment.

 

Everything goes straight into my audio interface, which is a Focusrite 18i8 2nd Gen. I use the pre-amps from the interface for my Kawai MP11SE and Viscount Legend as both signals aren't that hot. My DSI Prophet Rev2 goes into the line inputs on the back of the interface. I usually don't record the latter, but if I do, I use an Arturia pre-amp VST to boost the signal of the Rev2 somewhat. It depends really on what patch. A unison patch can be more than loud enough while a pad can't be heard. Like I said, I'd really like a mixer.

Trumpet player by trade, but fell in love with keys too.
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No mixer. Kronos is my mixer.

 

I get very good recording results

 

I prefer simple.

 

I use my Ur44 AI for audio reproduction

Why fit in, when you were born to stand out ?

My Soundcloud with many originals:

[70's Songwriter]

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I have two interfaces, an Apogee Element 24 and a Radial Key Largo (Key Largo for both live use and recordings).

All my synths (Kurzweil K2661, Kawai K5000W, Kawai K1) into the 3 stereo pairs of Radial and my Moog Minitaur into Apogee instrument / line inputs. Apogee has better sound quality than Radial (which is an excellent sound card) and for this reason I prefer to record analog synths with Apogee.

I set the volume control of all my synths to 9 and I set the preamps of my cards in the right position to not clip.

I use Apogee as the output card into my Genelec 8030A.

The truth is that after the purchase of Arturia V collection i do not use my hardware synths (except Minitaur) for recordings too much...

Kurzweil K2661 + full options,iMac 27",Mac book white,Apogee Element 24 + Duet,Genelec 8030A,Strymon Lex + Flint,Hohner Pianet T,Radial Key-Largo,Kawai K5000W,Moog Minitaur,Yamaha Reface YC + CP, iPad 9th Gen, Arturia Beatstep + V Collection 9

 

https://antonisadelfidis.bandcamp.com

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Just direct into my Focusrite 2i4.

 

It'd be nice to have, say, a lunchbox with a few 500-series pres or something, maybe even some analog compression, but that's pretty low on the priority list gear-wise tbh. I do drool over some of my guitar/bass friends' home tracking setups. There are some serious country guys around here that lay a lot of tracks at home nowadays.

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My studio has a separate control room, a large-ish live room, where most of my keyboards are located, a medium-sized iso room that contains the grand piano, and a small iso room that can hold guitar amps or a vocalist. The fact that the keyboard rig is some distance away from the recording interface is the reason for the sub-mixing, which is probably less-than-optimal sonically, and I am working on better solutions.

 

The main recording interface is an Allan & Heath SQ-6 mixer that provides up to 32 channels of 96k, 24bit audio over USB. The main DAW is Logic 10, though we have several others installed. One of the other engineers that works here uses the Presonus DAW. We primarily use the A&H preamps, which are very clean. I also have a stereo pair of Neve 8058 preamps, and a pair of 7th Circle Audio Neve 1272 clones, but I rarely use these when tracking keys, the A&H is more convenient and sounds great.

 

Grand Piano: lately the chain has been a Warm Audio WA47 tube condenser in the center, about 2 feet out from the lid facing inwards, along with a pair of AKG 414's about 18" off the strings over the highs and lows. This is a pretty close setting, but it's in a pretty small room, so we're trying to minimize the room sound (I wish the room sounded better, and we are working on it). This way we can have a mono or stereo piano on mixdown, whichever suits the mix better. The WA mic, btw, is amazing for the price, <$1k.

 

Hammond organ clone (Hammond XK-1C): patched into 1st generation Ventilator, then to stereo Radial DI.

 

Rhodes Stage 73, running through some stompboxes and into a 1970's Fender Twin Reverb, mic'd with Shure SM-7, Heil PR40 or EV RE20.

 

Most other synths, including MOTM, and Eurorack modulars, run into a Roland M160 line mixer and out the line level XLR's to 2 channels on the A&H. Sometimes, I will DI synths and bypass the mixer, but generally, it's more convenient to leave everything patched through the M160, even though it probably doesn't sound the best.

Turn up the speaker

Hop, flop, squawk

It's a keeper

-Captain Beefheart, Ice Cream for Crow

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I run keys directly into the stereo line inputs (in the back) on my Focusrite 18i6. The levels tend to be a little low, especially for the Nord Electro 5D, but it"s manageable. In a live situation, I go through a mixer first. One of the reasons is to get the level up before going to FOH. It"s hard enough to get the sound guys to make keys hear-able, and I feel like I have no chance if they have to pushed the fader all the way up. :laugh::wall:
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No interface in my system, all OTB.

 

The preamps on my A&H GL2200 console are pretty good for mics or synths. Instrument->console->Alesis HD24 then playback/process/mix on console.

 

I have DIs for specific instruments. IE I record my Rhodes direct off the harp, raw signal from the pickups. But the pickups are loaded very easily and require the right DI to get a good tone. Also have DIs, Speaker Emulators, and reamps for guitar amps.

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Direct, 1/4" TRS balanced when I'm at home. In our rehearsal space it's Radial Pro 2 DI into the Studiologic RM18AI.

 

However, another interesting thought, hopefully not to hijack.... If you have a combination in your keyboard with effects and such, to you just record the stereo out or do you split up the parts into separate DAW tracks.

 

I've done a combination of both. In particular on the last couple songs we recorded where I was running lead sounds into a Line 6 pod, I instead recorded them clean and used a DAW plugin for the amp sim. Also parts that I had layered in the Kronos I played separately on different tracks of the DAW so that as the mix came together, they would have more control. But sometimes from home I'll just put it all together with effects and everything and email my keyboard mix as a single WAV file for them to drop in.

Dan

 

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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STRAIGHT ANSWER:

 

Because very few keyboards have balanced outputs, my recording chain is designed to have minimal cable length and gain staging between the keyboard outputs and the A/D. I am continually surprised at how clean a lot of today's gear is, even the cheap stuff, so with care, it's possible to do a stereo mixdown for a simple 2-channel A/D without adding a lot of noise. My current mixer, which I hauled out of my Ableton Link demo rig in desperation when my old mixer went pining for the fjords, is a Samson SM10, which is a dynamite little beast for the money. I won't post all the specs here, it's easy enough to look up.

 

I do this for live shows (online and onstage) because a stereo submix OTB is much easier to work with in a hurry than doing stuff digitally (and most of the time, my iPads are too busy playing music for me to mess with one as a control surface).

 

For multitrack recording, I go direct into my MOTU UltraLight AVB, and I submix through the SM10 or my Yamaha AG06 when necessary. For studio DAW work this is fine because I can mix on a spare iPad in the studio or do it onscreen.

 

I run all my keys direct to the mixer for the cleanest sound, with two exceptions. My Korg Prophecy has an output level that is so feeble it's a shandeh, so I run it through a Lounsberry Tall Fat & Wide, which turns it into a roaring animal without screwing with the tone all that much. I don't like the built-in effects (all analog) on the Arturia MatrixBrute, so I have a dedicated reverb on the outputs that I can bypass when not needed. Currently that's an Alesis Wedge, but I am contemplating swapping it out for a Strymon: the logical choice would be a BigSky, or maybe even a chain of a BigSky and a Volante, but I am actually going to start with the Flint, which is a dandy little reverb and tremolo that I bet would work great with the MatrixBrute.

Dr. Mike Metlay (PhD in nuclear physics, golly gosh) :D

Musician, Author, Editor, Educator, Impresario, Online Radio Guy, Cut-Rate Polymath, and Kindly Pedant

Editor-in-Chief, Bjooks ~ Author of SYNTH GEMS 1

 

clicky!:  more about me ~ my radio station (and my fam) ~ my local tribe ~ my day job ~ my bookmy music

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Great topic, Stephen.

 

Given that all of my synths are digital and 30-40% of my compositions use VSTi's, I run straight into my RME Multiface through a patchbay. If I've attained the sound I want through programming, I don't want anything coloring it, especially in an unpredictable way. If I had a high-end Neve or SSL I might feel differently, but the typical Mackie compact isn't going to add favorable tone. I record just about everything bone-dry and effects are only added in software. I'm a huge proponent of mono synth parts (and using stereo effects to widen as necessary), so I'll most often record the R and L outputs as dual mono (and mute or drop one of the channels), or I'll record only one half of the output. Stereo synths suck up a lot of space in a hurry.

 

I don't abide by any fixed output level for recording. It's all patch specific. I'll watch the input meters for the part, and if I need to dial in some more gain, I'll do so at the patch level or at the master level. Patch levels vary too much for me to leave the gain settings fixed, especially when I'm recording some parts as mono channels.

Sundown

 

Working on: The Jupiter Bluff; Driven Away

Main axes: Kawai MP11 and Kurz PC361

DAW Platform: Cubase

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My most recent set up is really pretty simple. I run the Yamaha MM8 into channels 1 & 2 of my new Yamaha MG10XU, panned hard left and hard right. I run from the USB port in the Yamaha direct into my computer.

 

My SK-2, I run a cable out of the Leslie Out to a 1st gen Vent, then into 5/6 on the board. I come out of the main outs on the SX-2 into 7/8 for the additional sounds. 9/10 are set for USB, as I run from the USB to the computer.

 

The computer is a refurb Dell with a 2 TB HD, 8 GB RAM, and a 3 GHz processor. I run Sonar X3 Producer.

 

In the next couple days I will connect my Sennheiser e835 mic into Channel 3 so I can record some vocals.

 

The output of the MG10XU is such that it will be difficult to clip the channels in the DAW.

 

The majority of my recording is done to MIDI, using a variety of VST instruments, with a very notable exception of the SK-2. That, I'll record live.

 

It sounds like it would not work, running out of the headphone out on the MG10XU into the audio input of my Samsung 32" TV that I'm using as a computer monitor works remarkably well. When it comes time to mix, I'll break out my Shure headphones.

"In the beginning, Adam had the blues, 'cause he was lonesome.

So God helped him and created woman.

 

Now everybody's got the blues."

 

Willie Dixon

 

 

 

 

 

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I've always gone stereo outs straight into the line level inputs of my Apogee Ensemble until this year when I replaced it with an Apollo X8. Looking at what everyone else is saying I feel like maybe I'm too basic?

Kawai C-60 Grand Piano : Hammond A-100 : Hammond SK2 : Yamaha CP4 : Yamaha Montage 7 : Moog Sub 37

 

My latest album: Funky organ, huge horn section

https://bobbycressey.bandcamp.com/album/cali-native

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I think I can take the basic award from you Bobby! I plug straight into my PC - Dual TS 6.35mm out to single stereo TRS 3.5mm in.

 

I'm not recording pro-level albums or anything of course, it's just for creating backing tracks for band mates, or fooling around on YouTube.

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I go straight into the active DI channels (combined Mic/DI at chs. 7-8) of my eight-channel True Precision 8 pre-amp. I tried every possible DI that I have, have had, or had access to, and these are the most neutral (they are also transformerless, like the whole pre-amp design). The ones on my Audient 8-channel ADAT expander are less neutral but work well for guitar and bass (as does my Radial PZ-DI). I sold my passive dual DI from Radial as active DI's, when designed well, are actually more transparent and neutral due to maintaining better signal strength across the spectrum. My DI/pre-amp feeds into my RME Fireface UFX.

 

If I had a real Leslie (I don't, but may at some point), I might do a mix of mic and DI; I don't know as I have no direct experience and only know what I like when I customize my leslie effects plug-ins.

 

Also, if I was doing e-piano hardware vs. e-piano software, I'd probably want some sort of amp in the chain, as that's the classic sound. Maybe a Fender Deluxe Reverb?

Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, D'angelico SS Bari, EXL1,

Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, LP 57, Eastman T486, T64, Ibanez PM2, Hammond XK4, Moog Voyager

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Oh, if you're talking about acoustic piano and miking, that becomes a different story altogether, and the room will have an impact on the number of mics, the types/brands, and their placement.

 

For smaller studio or living room situations, I have moved completely away from LDC's after many years of being impressed by their low end capture. They're too boomy and imbalanced as well as not being fast enough on the transients. I usually have to dial out the low end at mix time anyway. So I really only like SDC's anymore, and ribbons can be interesting as well.

 

Sound Pure (pro audio in SC) has excellent piano miking tutorials at their site. They also have some very useful shootout videos that also show different miking techniques.

 

By far my favourite acoustic piano mics are the Schoeps CMC6's w/ MK4 cardioid capsule (yes, I know a lot of people prefer omnis, but there again the bass buildup is usually a problem). I was too cheapskate though and was impressed by the sound samples and reviews for Peluso's tribute to that mic, so instead bought their CEMC-6.

 

The Audio-Technica AT4051-b, and the Beyerdynamic MC930, are my other two preferred SDC condenser choices, and preference would be based on the room and the piano brand.

 

Another interesting option is the PianoBar mic from Earthworks, but I think it's more for practicality at live gigs than for the "best possible studio capture". A pro audio friend in Texas has his own secret miking recipe that he shared with me under the promise that it would go no further, but I'll just say that it involves more than two mics and I have personally concluded that for non-classical material that is sufficient.

 

The Beyerdynamic TG D71c boundary mic is half-hypercardioid and is now my preferred inside-the-kick-drum mic, but also has some use ON the harp of the piano, or even by the pedals, as a third mic.

Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, D'angelico SS Bari, EXL1,

Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, LP 57, Eastman T486, T64, Ibanez PM2, Hammond XK4, Moog Voyager

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There"s an old-school principle that to a mixer (or audio interface) everything should look like a microphone. There"s also a lot of variation between keyboards of how hot the line-level output signal is with the volume knob maxed.

 

Steve, I don't know why an instrument should be like a mike, except for live purposes, where grounding and safety and cable uniformity could make that desirable. Or it's a signal path thing, where the mixer "responds" to the connected source with distortion, dynamics and tonality that corresponds with a "live" microphone. I don't even think that electro acoustic instruments would benefit from a mike input, probably they require less gain and prefer higher impedance.

 

When recording keyboards, what is your preferred method? Into a direct box, then a mic preamp on your interface? Straight into the line-level inputs on your audio interface? Something in the middle such as a mixer whose gain structure you like? Different signal chains for different instruments? Sound off!

 

The non-PC software keyboard instruments I like would currently record/play+monitor would include S90, self designed DSP based digtal analog simulation synth, PC3 ad CP4, which usually benefit most from using impedance balanced inputs on a as neutral as possible stereo strip on my Yamaha MG16XU mixer.

 

However, since I've started working on sampling related problems (the main keyboard instruments are digital, I've built some ful analog stuff, but not recent;y) the whole thinking needs to be redone on many levels. First of all, if an instrument has a digital output, it is logical to prevent an extra DAC/ADC step. So I at times use a Lexicon Omega digital input to either the always on server machine (Fedora 28/64, I7-950) or my heavy PC which runs Windows 10/Cubase (not used often) or can do very complex DSP processing on Linux (I7-3930k 12 threads 4.5GHz, 4CH 80GB/s memory bandwidth).

 

When programming digital instruments with pro DSP tools inside, it is in some cases possible to create a DAC-ed output (with the built in converter or an external one) which essentially looks like a near analog signal, including accurate speaker and listening space pre-corrections. Also, I can take a rather crude digital-like signal, and run it through a very complicated setup (in 2 or 3 sofware phases maxing the well cooled big machine to over 60 degrees C on all cores) and as such create a signal that digital-to-analog converts well.

 

There's a lot difficult about that whole idea, and the choice of recording method, sampling rate (if possible the 96kHz studio norm will correspond best with pro materials), and project DAC choice matter. In addition to that, I run a 8 fold balanced multi cable back and forth from a Lexicon MX400 (cheap double effect), where the help of certain complicated software setups is bought in to magically bring it to life. Also, I recently have found effective ways of provoking powerful and subtle Lexicon acoustics preparation and reverb effects on the keyboards (and other sources like mic and guitar). The setup involves making a dynamics and eq based mix setup by driving compression+parametric eq strips on the mixer in series and (inverted) in parallel to use 5 of the the built in compression effects (in inverted parallel mix mode acting as a gate) to convinve the Lexicon to loop in the signal path nicely, which is a strange (and accurate) experience.

 

The resulting sound of that can be to correct smapled playback into more pleasing reconstruction and room preparation (which presumes a lot of signal knowledge in the Lexicon), or a recording that's prepared for subsequent digital playback with greatly improved listenability on y big monitoring system.

 

T

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There"s an old-school principle that to a mixer (or audio interface) everything should look like a microphone. There"s also a lot of variation between keyboards of how hot the line-level output signal is with the volume knob maxed.

 

Steve, I don't know why an instrument should be like a mike, except for live purposes, where grounding and safety and cable uniformity could make that desirable. Or it's a signal path thing, where the mixer "responds" to the connected source with distortion, dynamics and tonality that corresponds with a "live" microphone. I don't even think that electro acoustic instruments would benefit from a mike input, probably they require less gain and prefer higher impedance.

 

T

 

Thank you Theo - I was going to reply with similar. I've never heard this and it makes no sense. Maybe it goes way back to when there was 1 standardized set of input/output levels and impedance? You know, when Steve was in his prime and the rest of us were in diapers :poke: .

 

Anyway, I can't imagine it's relevant today.

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Maybe it goes way back to when there was 1 standardized set of input/output levels and impedance? .

 

It comes from PA standards "from the past" ...

All the stagebox/multicore inputs were connected to mic XLRs on the console.

I also remember, studios mid - late 70th had everything connected to mic inputs on their MCI, Harrison or Neve consoles.

Keyboard instruments at that time were HiZ and offered output levels matching guitar amp inputs.

Even Minimoog D and old Obies offered low level outputs.

We always used DI boxes (600Ohms mic level out) when recording instruments in studios.

 

Soundengineers, live or studio,- these old farts always wanted mono signals at mic level.

 

Times changed,- and I´m happy about !

 

A.C.

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... although the Mini low output is still way above that of any mic that I know of.

 

Yes, guitar amp level (as I wrote above).

I used it to run into my Fender.

 

For mic-input a DI was necessary in addition,- and not only to prevent from groundloop.

 

 

... I took "everything should look like a microphone" to mean...

 

rBVaSVpAjhSAPAPTAACloiVLy74459.jpg

 

That´s what she said w/ the "showerhead" removed !

 

gear porn ...

 

 

:laugh:

 

 

A.C.

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