Music Player Network
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 4 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6
Re: In The Lab: Meet the ASM Hydrasynth!
Dr Mike Metlay #3047129 06/03/20 12:36 AM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 21,705
Likes: 290
4x KCFFL Champ
20k Club
Offline
4x KCFFL Champ
20k Club
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 21,705
Likes: 290
It's here!

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Holy smokes, what a sound. I'm actually even more impressed with it in person than I expected to be. Build quality is quite sturdy, keybed feels nice, controls respond well...and it's way easy to move around on this bad boy. Haven't had a problem finding anything yet.

My one minoor negative reaction - the cord on the wall wart is too short.

Still exploring...but right now I'm a pretty happy camper. rocker

dB

1 member likes this: Joe Muscara
GearLab Island
Re: In The Lab: Meet the ASM Hydrasynth!
Dave Bryce #3047135 06/03/20 01:07 AM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 10,086
Likes: 129
MPN Advisory Board
10k Club
Offline
MPN Advisory Board
10k Club
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 10,086
Likes: 129
Originally Posted by Dave Bryce
It's here!

nice stand wink


that was then and this is now
1 member likes this: Dave Bryce
Re: In The Lab: Meet the ASM Hydrasynth!
Dr Mike Metlay #3047526 06/05/20 03:13 AM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 780
Likes: 58
Gold Member
OP Offline
Gold Member
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 780
Likes: 58
Mine just arrived.

*squeeeee*


Dr. Mike Metlay (PhD in nuclear physics, golly gosh) grin
Janitor and Hall Monitor, Dr. Mike's Studio Workshop

clicky!: more about me ~ my schwag ~ my radio station (and my fam) ~ my local tribe ~ my day job
Re: In The Lab: Meet the ASM Hydrasynth!
RandyFF #3047527 06/05/20 03:14 AM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 780
Likes: 58
Gold Member
OP Offline
Gold Member
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 780
Likes: 58
Originally Posted by RandyFF
Dr. Mike,
If the above post asks questions you have no interest in answering I'll delete it. Just trying to wrap my head around the logistics of someone like you getting paid a fair wage for so much work.

Thanks,
Randy
Sorry Randy, I have been off MPN for a few days. One moment plz....


Dr. Mike Metlay (PhD in nuclear physics, golly gosh) grin
Janitor and Hall Monitor, Dr. Mike's Studio Workshop

clicky!: more about me ~ my schwag ~ my radio station (and my fam) ~ my local tribe ~ my day job
Re: In The Lab: Meet the ASM Hydrasynth!
RandyFF #3047529 06/05/20 03:25 AM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 780
Likes: 58
Gold Member
OP Offline
Gold Member
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 780
Likes: 58
Originally Posted by RandyFF
So, having the benefit of hindsight.... and in keeping with the discussion on KC re online reviews....
? How many hours would you be charging a manufacturer for a review of this depth?
? Having done this thorough review, how many hours would you charge the manufacturer to produce a 10-20-30? minute overview video that of course hits the highlights, but also gives new users a good take on how to get started with this synth? A video quick-start guide.
? Having done this review, how many hours to turn this review into a video user guide broken up into 10 minute segments covering everything you've done but more organized for a new user.

The problem with many digital products like this is how hard it is to learn. This review taken to the next level as highly organized user guides, your production makes an otherwise hopelessly complex board approachable. I'm sure there would be many many new buyers with this kind of approach, well worth the investment.

I imagine that only the bigger companies would have a budget for the above videos. But getting creative with the publicity department of smaller companies, you could come up with a plan such that there are different tiers of compensation coming back to you based on the sales volume.

You have a gift for making the incomprehensible approachable!

Hey Randy,

First, thanks for the kind words. They mean a lot to a very old dog learning a few new educational tricks!

Second, I am not at all insulted by your asking, I was offline for several days. You ask very good questions and I am still cogitating on setting rates and pricing that neither insult my level of work and experience nor scare away clients. ( "I'm Mike Metlay, dammit" will only get me so far. grin )

- Taking just the Hydrasynth review as an example that it will be very hard for me to match (loving it made it easy to dive deep into)...

- Keeping in mind my relative inexpertise but also keeping in mind my very simple shooting system, I probably put in 30 hours of total work on the 11 parts. That's a fair chunk of change, even at my "friends and family" rate.

- With this information already im mein Kopf, I would charge for probably 5 hours for a 30-minute overview video based on what I have learned.

- Slicing up this existing material into 10-minute videos is not very practical. To hit the level of quality I would feel comfortable delivering professionally, I would have to reshoot them all. There would be more scripting and editing, not impossible at all but still time-consuming. I'm not even sure how to estimate what this would take to do. A minimum of 40 hours if I make all my other clients wait a week...? As my daughter would say, "Big Yikes."

More cogitating... but after I make sure my newly arrived Hydrasynth actually works. See y'all in a week. wink

mike


Dr. Mike Metlay (PhD in nuclear physics, golly gosh) grin
Janitor and Hall Monitor, Dr. Mike's Studio Workshop

clicky!: more about me ~ my schwag ~ my radio station (and my fam) ~ my local tribe ~ my day job
Re: In The Lab: Meet the ASM Hydrasynth!
Dr Mike Metlay #3049435 06/17/20 10:28 PM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 780
Likes: 58
Gold Member
OP Offline
Gold Member
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 780
Likes: 58
Originally Posted by Dr Mike Metlay
More cogitating... but after I make sure my newly arrived Hydrasynth actually works. See y'all in a week. wink
mike
Okay, fine, TWO weeks. Sorry NOT sorry. grin Time to get caught up on what I've missed before the Hydra calls me back with its siren song....

BTW, people on YouTube are asking me to do more videos. I have directed them here to ask for specifics; if anyone out there would like me to do one, just say so. The Hydra is now in pride-of-place for actual playing in my studio rather than hovering above the MatrixBrute like a bird of prey, but I suppose I can move it back there easily enough.


Dr. Mike Metlay (PhD in nuclear physics, golly gosh) grin
Janitor and Hall Monitor, Dr. Mike's Studio Workshop

clicky!: more about me ~ my schwag ~ my radio station (and my fam) ~ my local tribe ~ my day job
Re: In The Lab: Meet the ASM Hydrasynth!
Dr Mike Metlay #3049484 06/18/20 03:01 AM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 21,705
Likes: 290
4x KCFFL Champ
20k Club
Offline
4x KCFFL Champ
20k Club
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 21,705
Likes: 290
Originally Posted by Dr Mike Metlay
[BTW, people on YouTube are asking me to do more videos. I have directed them here to ask for specifics; if anyone out there would like me to do one, just say so. The Hydra is now in pride-of-place for actual playing in my studio rather than hovering above the MatrixBrute like a bird of prey, but I suppose I can move it back there easily enough.
Click me, Mike! poke

dB

Re: In The Lab: Meet the ASM Hydrasynth!
Dave Bryce #3049512 06/18/20 05:02 AM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 780
Likes: 58
Gold Member
OP Offline
Gold Member
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 780
Likes: 58
Originally Posted by Dave Bryce
Originally Posted by Dr Mike Metlay
[BTW, people on YouTube are asking me to do more videos. I have directed them here to ask for specifics; if anyone out there would like me to do one, just say so. The Hydra is now in pride-of-place for actual playing in my studio rather than hovering above the MatrixBrute like a bird of prey, but I suppose I can move it back there easily enough.
Click me, Mike! poke

dB
Done and replied to. Most of the requests over on that thread are for serious hands-on tests of serious hands-on keyboards for serious hands-on keyboardists, of which I am truly not one; I don't think I could do them justice. But there are a few that are in my wheelhouse, and I'd love to look into those.


Dr. Mike Metlay (PhD in nuclear physics, golly gosh) grin
Janitor and Hall Monitor, Dr. Mike's Studio Workshop

clicky!: more about me ~ my schwag ~ my radio station (and my fam) ~ my local tribe ~ my day job
Re: In The Lab: Meet the ASM Hydrasynth!
Dr Mike Metlay #3050238 06/21/20 08:02 PM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 780
Likes: 58
Gold Member
OP Offline
Gold Member
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 780
Likes: 58
Okay, here's one for Jalene, a lurker who's been asking some great questions on my YouTube channel but has not yet gotten involved here. (Hi Jalene)

Jalene was asking about yet another completely undocumented feature on the Hydrasynth, this one beyond even HER detective abilities. Since she's the one who's called me out on all my other mistakes and omissions so far, I was kinda thrilled to be able to figure out something she couldn't. grin

The Arpeggiator parameter of Clock Lock, or as it's called in the displays, ClkLock, is not mentioned in the literature, but it IS mentioned as needing a bug fix in the rev 1.4 update notes.

Jalene reports that she's using external clock sync and wonders if that's why she can't hear an effect. It is quite possible that using external sync makes ClkLock irrelevant, but I don't think so, you can verify this by running the arpeggiator on internal clock for a minute (honest, it won't kill you smile ).

To hear what ClkLock does: Set a very simple arpeggio order to 1/4 notes at 30 BPM, i.e. as slow as it will go without menu diving (which is all we need). Play an arpeggio with ClkLock off, then do it again with ClkLock on. Can you hear and feel the difference?

Basically, with ClkLock Off, the arpeggiator clock starts the instant you play a note, and all other notes follow in time. With ClkLock On, the internal LFO is not retriggered at all, and runs on its own: if you play the first note, it won't make a sound until the next clock pulse comes along.

I have to dive more into how you can sync to that clock, because this may be a way to avoid the dreaded "I played a note and I was slightly off so now all my arpeggiated notes are slightly off" problem (without Ableton Link, that is -- seriously, needs to be in every DAW and plug-in everywhere), but you'd need to have the arp following something else... now would be a good time to turn external sync back on and see if ClkLock still works as described. Does it track to MIDI Start commands?

This is called Key Sync on most other arpeggiators out there that have the function, and I am not entirely sure why ASM felt the need to change the terminology. Anyway, I hope this helps.


Dr. Mike Metlay (PhD in nuclear physics, golly gosh) grin
Janitor and Hall Monitor, Dr. Mike's Studio Workshop

clicky!: more about me ~ my schwag ~ my radio station (and my fam) ~ my local tribe ~ my day job
Re: In The Lab: Meet the ASM Hydrasynth!
Dr Mike Metlay #3050999 06/25/20 09:06 PM
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 66
Likes: 15
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 66
Likes: 15
Dr Mike,

It must have been a ton of work to make all of those vids for the Hydrasynth. Great job and thank you for doing so.

One question: Which topic is best to discuss the Hydra, generally? This one, or the others in the Keyboard Corner section?

Thx!

Re: In The Lab: Meet the ASM Hydrasynth!
Dr Mike Metlay #3051235 06/27/20 02:35 AM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 21,705
Likes: 290
4x KCFFL Champ
20k Club
Offline
4x KCFFL Champ
20k Club
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 21,705
Likes: 290
Originally Posted by AquilaRift
One question: Which topic is best to discuss the Hydra, generally? This one, or the others in the Keyboard Corner section?
Either is fine! Depends what you want to say/know....

This forum is a bit more focused on the gear itself. Keyboard Corner has been the place to go to talk to folks who own and use something, but a bunch of us who own Hydras are in this thread too...and we're told a few folks from ASM are reading it as well.

There generally are more folks reading in this forum than posting, too...so a post here is much less likely to be buried than it is over in KC.

dB

1 member likes this: AquilaRift
Re: In The Lab: Meet the ASM Hydrasynth!
Dave Bryce #3051236 06/27/20 02:50 AM
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 66
Likes: 15
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 66
Likes: 15
Originally Posted by Dave Bryce
Either is fine! Depends what you want to say/know....

This forum is a bit more focused on the gear itself. Keyboard Corner has been the place to go to talk to folks who own and use something, but a bunch of us who own Hydras are in this thread too...and we're told a few folks from ASM are reading it as well.

There generally are more folks reading in this forum than posting, too...so a post here is much less likely to be buried than it is over in KC.

dB

Thanks for the reply. smile Being new, I didn't want to step on any toes with my first post... Just wanted to discuss patch design techniques, share tips, demos of patches, get advice and feedback, etc. Usual good stuff I hope. smile The main Hydrasynth user group is on Facebook, but it's a closed group (or was, I haven't checked in months), and I'm not on FB, and not particularly keen on some other more popular forums. Which is why I'm here.... I'll start over at KC then. Thank you again.

1 member likes this: Dave Bryce
Re: In The Lab: Meet the ASM Hydrasynth!
AquilaRift #3051475 06/28/20 08:14 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 105
Likes: 13
D
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
D
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 105
Likes: 13
So, I've had this little beauty for about a month, _really_ digging it. The user interface works really well for me navigation wise, quick to get where you need to go and set up the mod matrix. I wish there was some 'ultrafine' resolution of the encoders as sometimes it is fussy going too high or too low in trying to get a specific value which on some of the Mutants a difference of 0.6 in a value can be significant.

Soundwise my inital impression playing the presets was that it was a little more 'digital' sounding than other VA's with which I'm familiar (the u-he stuff mainly). But after diving in found it capable of being more lush/rich without the 'edge'. That said, there is an 'edgy' timbre space that it can fall into very quickly due to the nature of the FM, Sync & various PW Mod Mutants. And IMHO too many of the presets are in that techno-y timbre space of edgy/harsh analog/digital hybrid sounds. But using things in moderation, and it become quite the chameleon across a wide timbre palatte.

Poly AT is the bomb, and I'm finding I use the Ribbon as a mod source in 'hold' mode quite often. The Mod Matrix is very complete, and all that adds on to the very capable realtime control from the Macro Knobs. It can do some pretty impressive sound morphing, and I've experimented with controlling the Hydrasynth from a Yamaha VP1 and the Hydra does extremely well keeping pace with the VP (and is a TON easier to program!)

It's really cool using a Wavetable as an FM Modulator and using the Poly AT to scan the table as it varies the Index

The worst feature - the aforemention short cable on the wall wart. The (subtle) best feature - TWO headphone jack sizes _on the front_!! smile

A few things for the wish list -- 'chaining' the envelopes together; ability to modulate the dedicated Vibrato LFO (and have have the same value settings as the other LFO's), negative keyboard pitch tracking for the oscillators, and a user configurable modulation source or two to set up things like your own keyscaling 'curves' or non-linear scalars for other parameters.

Hooking this puppy up in MPE mode when I get my Osmose (hopefully by the end of the year... ) should be quite the experience.

Manny

P.S. -- Mike, great job on the Videos, and at some point I hope to post some sound examples


People assume timbre is a strict progression of input to harmonics, but actually, from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timbrally-wimbrally... stuff
Re: In The Lab: Meet the ASM Hydrasynth!
DrSynth #3051486 06/28/20 12:58 PM
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 66
Likes: 15
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 66
Likes: 15
Originally Posted by DrSynth
So, I've had this little beauty for about a month, _really_ digging it. The user interface works really well for me navigation wise, quick to get where you need to go and set up the mod matrix. I wish there was some 'ultrafine' resolution of the encoders as sometimes it is fussy going too high or too low in trying to get a specific value which on some of the Mutants a difference of 0.6 in a value can be significant.

Getting to those finer values is sometimes a pain. Holding down the shift button while turning the encoder helps greatly (depending on the parameter you are editing), but even then it's easy to go right past the values you're aiming to get. Sometimes I go into the System Setup pages and change the encoder speed to the slowest possible setting, and then change it back to the default speed once I've got the value I want. I do wish we could dial in those "in-between" values on the synth itself.

For example, on a FM ratio, it jumps from 1.000 to 1.016 -- I'm not sure how that value compares to say a DX7's ratio, where dialing in 1.01 is super useful (likewise 0.99), but if we could dial in say 1.005 for example, that would be fantastic to really thicken up the FM. On a wishlist side of editing ratio numbers, I wish that holding down the macro button above ratio would let you dial in those finer in-between values. Dunno if that would be easy to do in a firmware update... Apparently, with a software editor, you can access all of those in-between values and even finer values quite easily. There's a third-party editor that I think is called HydraMorph that can do micro-level adjustments, as well as real-time micro adjustments while you play. I think Windows version will be out soon as well.

ASM seems to do a firmware update every few months so far, so we should be due a new one any time now if that pattern holds.... maybe. smile Looking forward to seeing if they make any of those changes.

Originally Posted by DrSynth
t's really cool using a Wavetable as an FM Modulator and using the Poly AT to scan the table as it varies the Index/quote]

I really like the FM capabilities on this synth. It's kind of difficult to translate a DX7 style edit to the Hydrasynth, because the DX7's envelopes values are different, such as 99 being the fastest attack value for example, whereas a time value of 0 is the fastest on most every other synth out there. But I would really love to see is someone come up with all the possible algorithms the Hydra can do in the standard Yahama style visual graphs. I started to work this out, but it just blew my mind due to so many modulator choices -- ring mod, noise, built-in sine and triangle, oscillators, other mutants FM or otherwise, and of course the mod inputs. It's crazy the amount of options, actually. And that makes it very, very cool. One day I will experiment with running the headphone output into the mod in jack and see what sort of nasty craziness can be made there.

[quote=DrSynth]The worst feature - the aforemention short cable on the wall wart. The (subtle) best feature - TWO headphone jack sizes _on the front_!! smile

Yeah, I've got an extension cord hooked up to my wall wart so it can reach my power strip, which isn't ideal. It's a standard power adapter though, so I suppose it shouldn't be too hard to source one with a much longer cable. But yes, the two headphone jacks are absolutely wonderful with their dedicated volume control. I use both of the jacks as audio outs going into the audio ins of my other synths. This gives me a lot more flexibility to blend the Hydrasynth's main outputs with a additional processed versions mixed from my Wavestation A/D and my Radias's comb filter. So I don't miss the individual outputs that you get on other synths -- the headphone jacks work perfectly as those.

Originally Posted by DrSynth
A few things for the wish list -- 'chaining' the envelopes together; ability to modulate the dedicated Vibrato LFO (and have have the same value settings as the other LFO's), negative keyboard pitch tracking for the oscillators, and a user configurable modulation source or two to set up things like your own keyscaling 'curves' or non-linear scalars for other parameters.

Hooking this puppy up in MPE mode when I get my Osmose (hopefully by the end of the year... ) should be quite the experience.

Manny

My wishlist is quite long, and I could fill up several pages of text, but I agree with both of yours. A workaround for the dedicated vibrato LFO is to switch it off entirely and sacrifice one of the five other LFOs to be the vibrato source. That's not actually a problem a lot of the time, but sometimes it is. Fortunately, the envelopes function as LFOs too, so you can also use a carefully-constructed looped envelope with curves to create really complex vibrato LFO types. But I often just like to use a square wave for a trill effect. I really do hope ASM gives more options for the dedicated vibrato LFO though. And also the lowest possible setting for that LFO is really overwhelming when the mod wheel is all the way up and you just want a subtle thing happening. The highest value is just crazy high -- but fun sometimes. smile

Re: In The Lab: Meet the ASM Hydrasynth!
Dr Mike Metlay #3051509 06/28/20 03:05 PM
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 66
Likes: 15
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 66
Likes: 15
By the way, if anyone wants it, a while back I made a PDF of the list of default presets in the Hydra. I also made one for the Inhalt bank. After that, I kinda got bored of making these. Gonna try to test out the attachment feature on this forum. Hope this helps some of you. And if you want to make your own list, it's not that difficult to do. Make a copy of your .hydra bank and rename the copy's file extension to be a .zip instead. Unzip and the open up the HTML file inside (I think it's an HTML file, it's been a while since I've done this). Copy and paste the patch list text into your preferred document (word, excel, whatever) and edit/format as needed. If anyone is planning on releasing patch banks, which I hope to do soon, then this is a really quick way to populate your preset lists and add value to your banks. smile

Attached Files
Default Hydrasynth Presets List.pdf (25.6 KB, 8 downloads)
Inhalt Hydrasynth Bank List.pdf (21.98 KB, 3 downloads)
1 member likes this: Dave Bryce
Re: In The Lab: Meet the ASM Hydrasynth!
AquilaRift #3051535 06/28/20 06:56 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 105
Likes: 13
D
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
D
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 105
Likes: 13
Originally Posted by AquilaRift
I really like the FM capabilities on this synth. It's kind of difficult to translate a DX7 style edit to the Hydrasynth, because the DX7's envelopes values are different, such as 99 being the fastest attack value for example, whereas a time value of 0 is the fastest on most every other synth out there. But I would really love to see is someone come up with all the possible algorithms the Hydra can do in the standard Yahama style visual graphs. I started to work this out, but it just blew my mind due to so many modulator choices -- ring mod, noise, built-in sine and triangle, oscillators, other mutants FM or otherwise, and of course the mod inputs. It's crazy the amount of options, actually. And that makes it very, very cool. One day I will experiment with running the headphone output into the mod in jack and see what sort of nasty craziness can be made there. smile

I spent a lot of time exploring how FM is implemented, and I started to map out the DX style 'algorithm' configuration possibilities, but realized the FM implementation of Mutant cross modulations is far too different from what Yamaha does with their Operator calculations within Algorithms -- and you need the Mutants to start building 3 & 4 Operator Stacks. In the end, if the goal is translate DX timbres, you're essentially limited to two basic 2 Operator Pairs, and can add in a second branched Modulator to either or both pairs, though it's not clear when you do that if the additional Modulator is interacting with the prior Mutant Oscillators' "Carrier" only or the total calculated product of that prior Mutant Oscillator.

The feedback implementation is completely different as well, and when added to the lack of detailed keyboard output scaling, along with antialiasing filters that are IMHO far to broad (strong) in their implementation killing the high harmonics in the upper note ranges far too quickly, the Hydrasynth's strength is not in the DX's timbral direction.

The Hydra is it's own thing, with an interesting unique & cool twist on FM.

Manny


People assume timbre is a strict progression of input to harmonics, but actually, from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timbrally-wimbrally... stuff
2 members like this: Dave Bryce, AquilaRift
Re: In The Lab: Meet the ASM Hydrasynth!
DrSynth #3051671 06/29/20 07:06 PM
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 66
Likes: 15
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 66
Likes: 15
Originally Posted by DrSynth
I spent a lot of time exploring how FM is implemented, and I started to map out the DX style 'algorithm' configuration possibilities, but realized the FM implementation of Mutant cross modulations is far too different from what Yamaha does with their Operator calculations within Algorithms -- and you need the Mutants to start building 3 & 4 Operator Stacks. In the end, if the goal is translate DX timbres, you're essentially limited to two basic 2 Operator Pairs, and can add in a second branched Modulator to either or both pairs, though it's not clear when you do that if the additional Modulator is interacting with the prior Mutant Oscillators' "Carrier" only or the total calculated product of that prior Mutant Oscillator.

The feedback implementation is completely different as well, and when added to the lack of detailed keyboard output scaling, along with antialiasing filters that are IMHO far to broad (strong) in their implementation killing the high harmonics in the upper note ranges far too quickly, the Hydrasynth's strength is not in the DX's timbral direction.

The Hydra is it's own thing, with an interesting unique & cool twist on FM.

Manny

Thanks for that post, Manny. You're absolutely right -- it is its own thing. I like this "own thing" a lot, actually. Most fun I've had on a synth since the Wavestation first came out. Of course, I haven't been buying synths much over the past 20 years. Shameful, I know, but I still love my older gear and ... well yeah. smile

Good to see that someone else had already considered graphing out the stuff and then realized it was too different as well. I thought it was just me who couldn't ken it. Took me years to get my head around Yamaha's FM synthesis... and that was on a simple 4-op Yamaha V50, which wasn't even mine. LOL. Turned out, it was a lot easier when someone finally explained it in a way that made sense to me -- thank you, Internet! I'm pretty good with manuals; I can figure out most things on my own, but FM threw me for a massive wobbly because like most, I started with subtractive synths.

As for the Hydras mutants and how they're processed, that's well out of my depth of experience and knowledge. I'm curious, though, so if you do find out, please share it. smile I'm not even going to try to assume how it works. smile

Re: In The Lab: Meet the ASM Hydrasynth!
AquilaRift #3052151 07/02/20 06:26 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 105
Likes: 13
D
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
D
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 105
Likes: 13
Originally Posted by AquilaRift
Originally Posted by DrSynth
I spent a lot of time exploring how FM is implemented, and I started to map out the DX style 'algorithm' configuration possibilities, but realized the FM implementation of Mutant cross modulations is far too different from what Yamaha does with their Operator calculations within Algorithms -- and you need the Mutants to start building 3 & 4 Operator Stacks. In the end, if the goal is translate DX timbres, you're essentially limited to two basic 2 Operator Pairs, and can add in a second branched Modulator to either or both pairs, though it's not clear when you do that if the additional Modulator is interacting with the prior Mutant Oscillators' "Carrier" only or the total calculated product of that prior Mutant Oscillator.

The feedback implementation is completely different as well, and when added to the lack of detailed keyboard output scaling, along with antialiasing filters that are IMHO far to broad (strong) in their implementation killing the high harmonics in the upper note ranges far too quickly, the Hydrasynth's strength is not in the DX's timbral direction.

The Hydra is it's own thing, with an interesting unique & cool twist on FM.

Manny

Thanks for that post, Manny. You're absolutely right -- it is its own thing. I like this "own thing" a lot, actually. Most fun I've had on a synth since the Wavestation first came out. Of course, I haven't been buying synths much over the past 20 years. Shameful, I know, but I still love my older gear and ... well yeah. smile

Good to see that someone else had already considered graphing out the stuff and then realized it was too different as well. I thought it was just me who couldn't ken it. Took me years to get my head around Yamaha's FM synthesis... and that was on a simple 4-op Yamaha V50, which wasn't even mine. LOL. Turned out, it was a lot easier when someone finally explained it in a way that made sense to me -- thank you, Internet! I'm pretty good with manuals; I can figure out most things on my own, but FM threw me for a massive wobbly because like most, I started with subtractive synths.

As for the Hydras mutants and how they're processed, that's well out of my depth of experience and knowledge. I'm curious, though, so if you do find out, please share it. smile I'm not even going to try to assume how it works. smile

So, some deep diving has revealed a few things to explain the Hydrasynth's FM Mutant behavior.

First thing was to confirm whether it uses phase modulation or actual frequency modulation. Based on FMing Osc 1 with a sub audio rate Osc 2, since Sine waveform for Osc 2 gives vibrato, but Square wave give a 'pulse train' of clicks and not a trill, it is a phase modulation implementation. I assumed this as all the other Mutants are phase modulation tricks.

Next, it appears that the Oscillators are all phase shifted relative to one another. Oscillators 1 & 2 are a quarter cycle (90 degrees) out of phase from each other. Oscillator 3 appears to be an eighth cycle (45 degrees) out of phase from 1 & 2. This based on FMing Square wave Osc 1 with Saw wave Osc 2 resulting in standard pulse width modulation depth with Index. FMing either Osc 1 or Osc 2 Square waves with Osc 3 Saw wave results in a variant of pulse width modulation that gives identical results for both Osc 1 & 2, hence the phase differential must be the same betwen Osc 3 & 1and for Osc 3 & 2. Thus Osc 3 would be at 45 degrees as that's the same differential to Osc 1 (0 degrees) and Osc 2 (90 degrees). This was likely done to 'analogue up' the sound of the VA engine, as a phase 'base point' in concert with the "Analog Feel" parameter which by my ear introduces random amounts of detuning, phase shift and key tracking acoss the oscillators.

So, no way the Hydra will ever sound like a Yamaha DX except for the simple dual 2-Op pair 'algorithm'

That's a good thing... though for the challenge I did finally manage to wrestle some classic DX Brass timbres out of it creating some "intra Mutant" feedback loop structures

Manny


People assume timbre is a strict progression of input to harmonics, but actually, from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timbrally-wimbrally... stuff
2 members like this: AquilaRift, Dave Bryce
Re: In The Lab: Meet the ASM Hydrasynth!
DrSynth #3052170 07/02/20 02:11 PM
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 66
Likes: 15
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 66
Likes: 15
Originally Posted by DrSynth
[So, some deep diving has revealed a few things to explain the Hydrasynth's FM Mutant behavior.

First thing was to confirm whether it uses phase modulation or actual frequency modulation. Based on FMing Osc 1 with a sub audio rate Osc 2, since Sine waveform for Osc 2 gives vibrato, but Square wave give a 'pulse train' of clicks and not a trill, it is a phase modulation implementation. I assumed this as all the other Mutants are phase modulation tricks.

Next, it appears that the Oscillators are all phase shifted relative to one another. Oscillators 1 & 2 are a quarter cycle (90 degrees) out of phase from each other. Oscillator 3 appears to be an eighth cycle (45 degrees) out of phase from 1 & 2. This based on FMing Square wave Osc 1 with Saw wave Osc 2 resulting in standard pulse width modulation depth with Index. FMing either Osc 1 or Osc 2 Square waves with Osc 3 Saw wave results in a variant of pulse width modulation that gives identical results for both Osc 1 & 2, hence the phase differential must be the same betwen Osc 3 & 1and for Osc 3 & 2. Thus Osc 3 would be at 45 degrees as that's the same differential to Osc 1 (0 degrees) and Osc 2 (90 degrees). This was likely done to 'analogue up' the sound of the VA engine, as a phase 'base point' in concert with the "Analog Feel" parameter which by my ear introduces random amounts of detuning, phase shift and key tracking acoss the oscillators.

So, no way the Hydra will ever sound like a Yamaha DX except for the simple dual 2-Op pair 'algorithm'

That's a good thing... though for the challenge I did finally manage to wrestle some classic DX Brass timbres out of it creating some "intra Mutant" feedback loop structures

Manny

Wow! Mind blown here. This is crazy good information for the folks who love the truly technical details on how their gear operates, how the audio is produced, etc. Thank you for deep diving it. smile

So far, I've managed a couple of decent 3-op pads, plenty of 2-op stuff too. FM basses are pretty easy to do, but they were easy on FM synths anyway. I am not disappointed in any way. I suppose it's great that we aren't limited to using only sine waves, so we don't have to "waste" an mod/carrier pair to create a saw wave, for example. That's helpful. Anyway, I don't think that trying to emulate older DX7 patches is really worthwhile, not for me. If I wanted that, why not just pick up an older Yamaha at that point? But I do want to better understand what the Hydra is capable of in its own right. And this is a good step in that direction. Thanks again. smile

Last edited by AquilaRift; 07/02/20 02:12 PM.
Re: In The Lab: Meet the ASM Hydrasynth!
AquilaRift #3052179 07/02/20 02:48 PM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 21,705
Likes: 290
4x KCFFL Champ
20k Club
Offline
4x KCFFL Champ
20k Club
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 21,705
Likes: 290
Originally Posted by AquilaRift
This is crazy good information for the folks who love the truly technical details on how their gear operates, how the audio is produced, etc. Thank you for deep diving it. smile
No doubt. The osc phase thing is a really interesting design choice. I wonder if it'd be possible in future revs to let users modify that.

Quote
I don't think that trying to emulate older DX7 patches is really worthwhile, not for me. If I wanted that, why not just pick up an older Yamaha at that point?
Exactly. If serious FM is what you're after, you'd probably feel somewhat hamstrung by the lack of configurable carriers/modulators anyway, even with the variable waveforms... idk

dB

1 member likes this: AquilaRift
Re: In The Lab: Meet the ASM Hydrasynth!
Dave Bryce #3052242 07/02/20 10:30 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 105
Likes: 13
D
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
D
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 105
Likes: 13
Originally Posted by Dave Bryce
Quote
I don't think that trying to emulate older DX7 patches is really worthwhile, not for me. If I wanted that, why not just pick up an older Yamaha at that point?
Exactly. If serious FM is what you're after, you'd probably feel somewhat hamstrung by the lack of configurable carriers/modulators anyway, even with the variable waveforms... idk

dB


There were two reasons I got the Hydrasynth - Poly aftertouch, and the ability to use wavetables as FM Operators (Actually, price didn't hurt...). Using all the available Mod sources, esp. the tempo syncable LFO's and Envelopes to modulate those wavetables within the FM paradigm is very unique and very, very cool. There's a LOT to be found in there...

Manny


People assume timbre is a strict progression of input to harmonics, but actually, from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timbrally-wimbrally... stuff
2 members like this: Dave Bryce, AquilaRift
Re: In The Lab: Meet the ASM Hydrasynth!
Dr Mike Metlay #3052517 07/04/20 12:38 PM
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 66
Likes: 15
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 66
Likes: 15
Anyone interested in reviews of some of the third-party patch banks that are currently available? I never used to buy banks (money is always tight), as I always prefer to make my own patches, but since I plan to release a bank of my own, I thought I should check out the competition to ensure my stuff is as good or better. That's subjective, of course. But I have learned that the patch designers are sometimes pretty lax with macro names or even assigning macros.

Banks I've bought so far are:

Ignition - by MajorOSC
Hydraforce - by CO5MA
Hydra Galaxy - by App Sound

I know there are more available, like TJ On The Road's banks, but I haven't got around to buying those yet.

Oh, there's also a free 20 patches bank by Brock Davisson here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bfjIzZSkOVrbWvBTkWcNsx58nzLGR8Jd/view

Pretty certain most everyone has the Inhalt and RA Sun God banks, since they're available on ASM's site.

I wanted to attach a bank of initialized patches without patch names that I made - useful for overwriting entire banks or what have you, because the default "Empty" doesn't overwrite anything when using the patch manager - but only certain file types are allowed. So... here's a link to that: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Mv8SmrYzQ9n0trLWn9XxD3AWSnBOTpqo/view?usp=sharing

Last edited by AquilaRift; 07/04/20 12:41 PM. Reason: corrected Brock's surname
Re: In The Lab: Meet the ASM Hydrasynth!
DrSynth #3052603 07/04/20 10:47 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 105
Likes: 13
D
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
D
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 105
Likes: 13
Originally Posted by DrSynth
Originally Posted by AquilaRift
[quote=DrSynth]I spent a lot of time exploring how FM is implemented, and I started to map out the DX style 'algorithm' configuration possibilities, but realized the FM implementation of Mutant cross modulations is far too different from what Yamaha does with their Operator calculations within Algorithms -- and you need the Mutants to start building 3 & 4 Operator Stacks. In the end, if the goal is translate DX timbres, you're essentially limited to two basic 2 Operator Pairs, and can add in a second branched Modulator to either or both pairs, though it's not clear when you do that if the additional Modulator is interacting with the prior Mutant Oscillators' "Carrier" only or the total calculated product of that prior Mutant Oscillator.

The feedback implementation is completely different as well, and when added to the lack of detailed keyboard output scaling, along with antialiasing filters that are IMHO far to broad (strong) in their implementation killing the high harmonics in the upper note ranges far too quickly, the Hydrasynth's strength is not in the DX's timbral direction.

The Hydra is it's own thing, with an interesting unique & cool twist on FM.

Manny

Next, it appears that the Oscillators are all phase shifted relative to one another. Oscillators 1 & 2 are a quarter cycle (90 degrees) out of phase from each other. Oscillator 3 appears to be an eighth cycle (45 degrees) out of phase from 1 & 2. This based on FMing Square wave Osc 1 with Saw wave Osc 2 resulting in standard pulse width modulation depth with Index. FMing either Osc 1 or Osc 2 Square waves with Osc 3 Saw wave results in a variant of pulse width modulation that gives identical results for both Osc 1 & 2, hence the phase differential must be the same betwen Osc 3 & 1and for Osc 3 & 2. Thus Osc 3 would be at 45 degrees as that's the same differential to Osc 1 (0 degrees) and Osc 2 (90 degrees). This was likely done to 'analogue up' the sound of the VA engine, as a phase 'base point' in concert with the "Analog Feel" parameter which by my ear introduces random amounts of detuning, phase shift and key tracking acoss the oscillators.

So, no way the Hydra will ever sound like a Yamaha DX except for the simple dual 2-Op pair 'algorithm'

That's a good thing... though for the challenge I did finally manage to wrestle some classic DX Brass timbres out of it creating some "intra Mutant" feedback loop structures

Manny

Upon further review, the aforementioned phase description is likely inaccurate. The actual Osc's may not be phase shifted relative to one another.

I assumed it was an offset amongst the Osc's, as offset phase, detuning and keytracking is a common technique used in VA oscillators to create 'analog feel'. The FM Saw->Square creating PWM behavior may be a result of a phase shift introduced via the Mutant process.

I'm trying to confirm with ASM devs... regardless of precisely 'how' it's a fun thing to play with !

Manny


People assume timbre is a strict progression of input to harmonics, but actually, from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timbrally-wimbrally... stuff
Re: In The Lab: Meet the ASM Hydrasynth!
DrSynth #3052622 07/05/20 01:48 AM
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 66
Likes: 15
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 66
Likes: 15
Originally Posted by DrSynth
Upon further review, the aforementioned phase description is likely inaccurate. The actual Osc's may not be phase shifted relative to one another.

I assumed it was an offset amongst the Osc's, as offset phase, detuning and keytracking is a common technique used in VA oscillators to create 'analog feel'. The FM Saw->Square creating PWM behavior may be a result of a phase shift introduced via the Mutant process.

I'm trying to confirm with ASM devs... regardless of precisely 'how' it's a fun thing to play with !

Manny

This is way over my head. You definitely need to talk to Chen, or maybe Glen would know. I can create patches for days, I can understand most synthesis techniques, but ask me how it all works internally, pish... nope. LOL. But I love when people break out the oscilloscopes and really try to figure it all out. Those guys, however, rarely make and release patches for others to play...

Re: In The Lab: Meet the ASM Hydrasynth!
Dr Mike Metlay #3052681 07/05/20 04:39 PM
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 66
Likes: 15
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 66
Likes: 15
Just out of curiosity... how many of us here on this forum own a Hydrasynth? Roll call, perhaps? I really would like to know, and also if any of you are doing music with your Hydra, I'd love to hear what you are doing, too. Can't do that if I don't know who you are... smile

And secondly, for those of you who are on Facebook and part of the Hydrasynth user group there, is that a valuable resource? What's happening there? I'm not on FB, I'm not ever going to be on FB and it sux for me hugely that the main group for the Hydrasynth is focused there. It would be so much better if there were a dedicated website for it.

Forums like here are useful, but they are not a patch on having a dedicated and OPEN community group. And I know I could create some dummy fake account for FB, but that I'm entirely disinterested in doing so. So I wonder... would it be really bad or even illegal if someone mirrored the group in some way so that those of us who aren't willing to compromise can at least be aware of what is happening there? I know this is my problem to deal with... I'm just looking for solutions on dealing with it.

Thanks. smile

Last edited by AquilaRift; 07/05/20 04:39 PM.
Re: In The Lab: Meet the ASM Hydrasynth!
AquilaRift #3052723 07/05/20 08:45 PM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 780
Likes: 58
Gold Member
OP Offline
Gold Member
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 780
Likes: 58
Originally Posted by AquilaRift
Anyone interested in reviews of some of the third-party patch banks that are currently available? I never used to buy banks (money is always tight), as I always prefer to make my own patches, but since I plan to release a bank of my own, I thought I should check out the competition to ensure my stuff is as good or better. That's subjective, of course. But I have learned that the patch designers are sometimes pretty lax with macro names or even assigning macros.

Banks I've bought so far are:

Ignition - by MajorOSC
Hydraforce - by CO5MA
Hydra Galaxy - by App Sound

I know there are more available, like TJ On The Road's banks, but I haven't got around to buying those yet.

Oh, there's also a free 20 patches bank by Brock Davisson here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bfjIzZSkOVrbWvBTkWcNsx58nzLGR8Jd/view

Pretty certain most everyone has the Inhalt and RA Sun God banks, since they're available on ASM's site.

I wanted to attach a bank of initialized patches without patch names that I made - useful for overwriting entire banks or what have you, because the default "Empty" doesn't overwrite anything when using the patch manager - but only certain file types are allowed. So... here's a link to that: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Mv8SmrYzQ9n0trLWn9XxD3AWSnBOTpqo/view?usp=sharing

Fabulous stuff, Jalene! I personally would love some mini-reviews as part of this thread. Bring them on!

Thanks so much for sharing, and thank you to EVERYONE who has been building up this thread. It's so satisfying to hit "critical mass" and watch dialogue just take off without any jet assist!

I have at least one and probably two more video series coming up; one will be more like the Hydrasynth's and the other will be fairly off the wall.

Small spoiler: I have been struggling for weeks -- months! -- with a synth that a lot of people love but which just has not resonated with me, and I have finally realized that the two parts of it that bug me the most -- the playing experience and the horrific, vile factory presets -- are both easily replaced! So that will be my take.

Watch GearLab for new threads starting very soon. And I'll pop in here where appropriate, but for now I am just eating popcorn and reading the FM thread with undisguised fascination and glee.

mike


Dr. Mike Metlay (PhD in nuclear physics, golly gosh) grin
Janitor and Hall Monitor, Dr. Mike's Studio Workshop

clicky!: more about me ~ my schwag ~ my radio station (and my fam) ~ my local tribe ~ my day job
1 member likes this: AquilaRift
Re: In The Lab: Meet the ASM Hydrasynth!
Dr Mike Metlay #3052849 07/06/20 02:19 PM
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 66
Likes: 15
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 66
Likes: 15
So I spotted Dr Synths two short example vids on YouTube... I'll let him link to those if he prefers. I left a comment on one vid... smile

I'll start working on the mini reviews of the third-party banks and post them up as soon as I can. I also must finish my own bank and figure out how to sell it online. I've only ever given away banks for free in the past. But Covid-19 has kinda changed everything... At some point I'm going to set up a camera and make demos/reviews of stuff. Just gotta get the motivation to do this... Seems like it is kind of a pain to do. I would love if someone would consider the FB thing I mentioned previously... But that's me being selfish and stubborn on refusing to be part of FB.

And Dr Mike, you have me totally intrigued re this mystery synth with crappy presets.

Know that I wasn't particularly impressed with most of the presets on the Hydrasynth. Some were truly wonderful though, and many were valuable in learning little tricks. After about a month, I removed the presets entirely. I did, however, reorganize all of them by creating separate banks for each patch designer. So I got one bank of all of Glen Darcy's patches, another bank for someone else's, etc. If anyone is interested in having those separated presets, let me know. smile

1 member likes this: Dr Mike Metlay
Re: In The Lab: Meet the ASM Hydrasynth!
AquilaRift #3052982 07/07/20 04:24 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 105
Likes: 13
D
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
D
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 105
Likes: 13
Originally Posted by AquilaRift
So I spotted Dr Synths two short example vids on YouTube... I'll let him link to those if he prefers. I left a comment on one vid... smile

Jalene,

Check your PM

Manny


People assume timbre is a strict progression of input to harmonics, but actually, from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timbrally-wimbrally... stuff
1 member likes this: AquilaRift
Re: In The Lab: Meet the ASM Hydrasynth!
Dr Mike Metlay #3053232 07/08/20 04:49 PM
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 66
Likes: 15
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 66
Likes: 15
So... not quite a "mini-review" of a sound bank for the Hydra, but... here we go:

Review of HYDRAFORCE Sound Bank by CO5MA

General details:

32 patches, plus 5 bonus patches by Push-Pull in a separate bank
Documentation: Read Me (pdf) with basic install info but no patch list; artwork (jpg)
Price: $10.00 (reduced to $9.90 as of 8 July 2020) - buyer can pay more if they choose.
Where to get: https://gumroad.com/co5ma#kZXye
Demo: https://youtu.be/KW-SjyXqyZA (15 minutes)

Review:

I bought HYDRAFORCE due to the strength of CO5MA's demo on YouTube, and really, $10.00 is really cheap for any bank of sounds. I didn’t actually watch the video very closely to be fair; I let it play in the background and listened and absorbed. I liked what I heard, it’s very different to anything I’d create, so I decided to get it.

Of the 32 patches, most of them are very well-suited for ambient music and dronish soundtrack type composition. Nearly all of the patches have very, very long release times on the amp and filter envelopes. That’s fine, and a little too long for my tastes, yet I would have preferred some control over those release times with a macro or two so I could adjust the release times quickly.

And if anything really falls down here, it’s the lack of macros in most of the patches. There are usually only two to four macro per patch. This might suit people who want to create their own macros or use these patches as a jumping off point for their own sounds, but those who want a full out-of-the-box, hands-on experience (i.e., preset players), they might be disappointed here with the lack of control options. The few macros that are available are good choices and named adequately to know what they’ll do. What’s missing in almost every patch is a macro for the reverb and other effects, which I believe is vital. Others may be happy to jump right into the Reverb module and adjust it there.

That said, the patches are quite expressive with Poly AT and the ribbon controller. They do sound lush at times, and the volumes can get very loud on some patches. As someone who leaves their volume knob set at 75% permanently, sometimes the volume is too loud for me, so be aware you might have to reach for the volume knob occasionally, or adjust your mixer fader, or simply jump into the Amp module and turn it down a bit.

Final thoughts: It’s a good ambient bank with a few industrial rhythmic patches and curiosities thrown in there too, and if you’re into long evolving textures, it might be worth the money for you. The five extra patches by Push-Pull are very good, too. Not sure why these were separated from the main bank -- would have been better to have combined them. For only $10.00 I feel guilty about complaining about the lack of macros, but that’s my subjective opinion.

Overall: 7/10 - because macros!

One last general opinionated thing about sound bank design: If there’s one thing I’ve noticed with every available bank I’ve played so far, it’s a total lack of consistency in where typical, common macros are placed. That’s true of the default presets that come with the Hydrasynth and the third-party banks I’ve purchased to date. I’m not suggesting everyone needs to maintain a certain layout for macros or that things cannot deviate, but having something like Reverb Wet/Dry available on the same knob on all patches would be ideal, in my opinion. If only the Hydrasynth had dedicated knobs for its two common effects, Reverb and Delay, this wouldn't be an issue. Maybe next time, ASM?

1 member likes this: Dr Mike Metlay
Re: In The Lab: Meet the ASM Hydrasynth!
Dr Mike Metlay #3054067 07/13/20 11:31 PM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,805
Likes: 20
Platinum Member
Offline
Platinum Member
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,805
Likes: 20
But this is already an aftertouch of meat. ~ Katsunori UJIIE, reviewing the Hydrasynth in Googlish

I first thought "Aftertouch Of Meat would be a great title for an album," but I quickly realized that there is no angle on it that isn't disgusting.

Katsunori digs in where the meaty fun resides for serious players. Enjoy. 24:51.

Aftertouch of Meat?


Synth-love is a phase-locked loop of OCDs.

https://soundcloud.com/david-emm-1
Page 4 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4