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Seville F-Cut Hollowbody Guitar
#3038646 04/13/20 10:18 PM
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Hey people! I hope everyone is safe and healthy! I'm a total newby here to your site and although I've had this guitar since the early 90's, I do not know much about it and wanted to see if anyone could shed some light. I have the following questions, if anyone could weigh in that would be very cool.

Is this a semi hollowbody or hollowbody guitar?
I believe it is a GIbson copy, perhaps a lawsuit model?
I can not find any stamps or demarkations inside the body. Any other way to pull a model/serial?
Any idea what year this may be and/or how much it is worth? I am not looking to sell it, because I love it. Just curios...

Thanks!

Attached Files 20200413_150121_resized.jpg20200413_150105_resized.jpg
Last edited by TheSurfingGuy; 04/13/20 10:19 PM.
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Re: Seville F-Cut Hollowbody Guitar
TheSurfingGuy #3038648 04/13/20 10:40 PM
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Yeah, a copy, more or less of a Gibson L5. Hollow body. You wouldn't be able to lift a semi-hollow with that deep a body. Without any other clues, I'm going to throw out a wild guess that it's a Korean Peerless, made from the templates they used for the Epiphone Broadways of that period.
Welcome to the forum, SurfingGuy.


Scott Fraser
Re: Seville F-Cut Hollowbody Guitar
TheSurfingGuy #3038649 04/13/20 10:58 PM
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Hey Surfing Guy welcome. You live in Carlsbad Ca?

The first time I came west from the east coast I lived in Carlsbad Ca on Walnut Ave (I think just a block off of the ocean at the corner of Walnut and Garfield) I came west for the surf and most of the winter that year the ocean was as flat as a board. Very few wave days. I used to surf warm water jetty, and just off of the Walnut ave area. Later on I moved to Cardiff By The Sea and surfed from Swamis to Point Loma (Ralph's they called that Point Loma break) and almost everything in between. Mostly at 8563's just north of Cardiff Reef, as we lived in San Elijo State Beach. Back in those days (mid 60's) you could stay at the campgrounds at San Elijo for 2 weeks and then you had to move out for 2 days then you could get back in for another 2 weeks. We camp at San Elijo State Beach still to this day, 2x yearly, we have reservations in May and September this year. Anyways welcome to the site and looks like a nice guitar. I have no idea how to date the guitar, good luck with that.


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Re: Seville F-Cut Hollowbody Guitar
TheSurfingGuy #3038653 04/13/20 11:53 PM
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Did some looking around on the interweb. Seville was indeed Korean made. May have been a sub-brand of Hondo guitars. One source says made by Samick, who also made Broadways for Epiphone, after Peerless did. Mostly the Seville line consisted of classical & steel string acoustic models. Beginner to intermediate price range, said to sound good & play well.


Scott Fraser
Re: Seville F-Cut Hollowbody Guitar
TheSurfingGuy #3038662 04/14/20 12:35 AM
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First, welcome Surfing Guy!

Scott Fraser's posts are excellent. I think he's got your guitar identified correctly, well done.

It is not, by definition, a lawsuit guitar. The term has been over-used to the point of absurdity and there are also some fabricated stories that won't go away.
This is a tedious but accurate account of the true lawsuit guitars. The REAL name should be "Pre-Lawsuit Guitars" since cease and desist orders caused changes to avoid things ramping up.

Ironcally, it led to Ibanez and others creating new instruments that became very popular and instruments made in Japan are held in very high regard today due to the quality.
Fender, for one, simply starting having some of their guitars made in Japan, which has led to some "cult" instruments like the Squier Tele, which might as well be a USA made Fender.

https://flypaper.soundfly.com/discover/truth-lawsuit-era-guitars/


There is never enough time to be in a hurry...
Re: Seville F-Cut Hollowbody Guitar
TheSurfingGuy #3038695 04/14/20 05:32 AM
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Nothing to add, but that’s a nice looking guitar!


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Re: Seville F-Cut Hollowbody Guitar
Scott Fraser #3038731 04/14/20 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott Fraser
Yeah, a copy, more or less of a Gibson L5. Hollow body. You wouldn't be able to lift a semi-hollow with that deep a body. Without any other clues, I'm going to throw out a wild guess that it's a Korean Peerless, made from the templates they used for the Epiphone Broadways of that period.
Welcome to the forum, SurfingGuy.
Thank you much for the reply and welcoming me!

Re: Seville F-Cut Hollowbody Guitar
desertbluesman #3038733 04/14/20 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by desertbluesman
Hey Surfing Guy welcome. You live in Carlsbad Ca?

The first time I came west from the east coast I lived in Carlsbad Ca on Walnut Ave (I think just a block off of the ocean at the corner of Walnut and Garfield) I came west for the surf and most of the winter that year the ocean was as flat as a board. Very few wave days. I used to surf warm water jetty, and just off of the Walnut ave area. Later on I moved to Cardiff By The Sea and surfed from Swamis to Point Loma (Ralph's they called that Point Loma break) and almost everything in between. Mostly at 8563's just north of Cardiff Reef, as we lived in San Elijo State Beach. Back in those days (mid 60's) you could stay at the campgrounds at San Elijo for 2 weeks and then you had to move out for 2 days then you could get back in for another 2 weeks. We camp at San Elijo State Beach still to this day, 2x yearly, we have reservations in May and September this year. Anyways welcome to the site and looks like a nice guitar. I have no idea how to date the guitar, good luck with that.
Great story DesertBluesMan! I have and do surf all of those spots except Ralph's, as it gets to crowded for my liking. However, a bunch of times I have surfed the other reefs at PL (Little Waimea, Donuts, Dolphin Tanks, etc. Such a fun area and so luck to have had a buddy with a boat who loved going out there. Been sometime frown.

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Re: Seville F-Cut Hollowbody Guitar
KuruPrionz #3038734 04/14/20 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by KuruPrionz
First, welcome Surfing Guy!

Scott Fraser's posts are excellent. I think he's got your guitar identified correctly, well done.

It is not, by definition, a lawsuit guitar. The term has been over-used to the point of absurdity and there are also some fabricated stories that won't go away.
This is a tedious but accurate account of the true lawsuit guitars. The REAL name should be "Pre-Lawsuit Guitars" since cease and desist orders caused changes to avoid things ramping up.

Ironcally, it led to Ibanez and others creating new instruments that became very popular and instruments made in Japan are held in very high regard today due to the quality.
Fender, for one, simply starting having some of their guitars made in Japan, which has led to some "cult" instruments like the Squier Tele, which might as well be a USA made Fender.

https://flypaper.soundfly.com/discover/truth-lawsuit-era-guitars/
Great info KuruPrionz! Thank you so much!

Re: Seville F-Cut Hollowbody Guitar
Dannyalcatraz #3038735 04/14/20 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Dannyalcatraz
Nothing to add, but that’s a nice looking guitar!
Thanks Dannyalcatraz! I have had it for a long time and has been around through many phases of my life. Has such a great sound played both acoustically and electrically! Peace!

Re: Seville F-Cut Hollowbody Guitar
TheSurfingGuy #3038741 04/14/20 03:19 PM
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Welcome aboard Surfing Guy!

Speaking of boards, my surfing days were back in high school (before and after days) from 63 through 69. My buddies and I were on the beaches every weekend surfing around the Santa Cruz area. I rented a board and took my son out for my last trip down in Pismo Beach in 1990 when I was forty years old LOL! We had fun but where we lived at the time was 3 hours away the beaches so I retired the idea of getting back into it. We also had a Ventures surf band back in high school in the 60's which kept us in the mood and spent a lot of nights on the beach with guitars, bongos, campfires, beer, marshmellows, etc. Loads of memories...

Great job Scott on researching the Seville! Gibson L5's were great jazz boxes. If it sounds good I would leave it stock. But I might consider a pair of 57 US made humbuckers for an upgrade (my favorite pups).

@ Kuru, +1...I had a buddy that had a Squire Strat made in Japan (like the Squire Tele, I think they were made in the 80's?). Anyway I put his Strat up against my US made Strats, and the rumor is true. It was just as good.

cool


Take care, Larryz
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Re: Seville F-Cut Hollowbody Guitar
TheSurfingGuy #3038760 04/14/20 05:12 PM
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Nice looking guitar and welcome.


Jenny S.
Re: Seville F-Cut Hollowbody Guitar
TheSurfingGuy #3038763 04/14/20 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by TheSurfingGuy
Originally Posted by KuruPrionz
First, welcome Surfing Guy!

Scott Fraser's posts are excellent. I think he's got your guitar identified correctly, well done.

It is not, by definition, a lawsuit guitar. The term has been over-used to the point of absurdity and there are also some fabricated stories that won't go away.
This is a tedious but accurate account of the true lawsuit guitars. The REAL name should be "Pre-Lawsuit Guitars" since cease and desist orders caused changes to avoid things ramping up.

Ironcally, it led to Ibanez and others creating new instruments that became very popular and instruments made in Japan are held in very high regard today due to the quality.
Fender, for one, simply starting having some of their guitars made in Japan, which has led to some "cult" instruments like the Squier Tele, which might as well be a USA made Fender.

https://flypaper.soundfly.com/discover/truth-lawsuit-era-guitars/
Great info KuruPrionz! Thank you so much!

You're welcome! Very cool guitar too, would love to have something along those lines. The Korean made instruments are generally excellent quality.


There is never enough time to be in a hurry...
Re: Seville F-Cut Hollowbody Guitar
TheSurfingGuy #3038789 04/14/20 08:21 PM
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Sweet looking guitar. Welcome to the forum. Jim

Re: Seville F-Cut Hollowbody Guitar
Larryz #3039845 04/21/20 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Larryz
Welcome aboard Surfing Guy!

Speaking of boards, my surfing days were back in high school (before and after days) from 63 through 69. My buddies and I were on the beaches every weekend surfing around the Santa Cruz area. I rented a board and took my son out for my last trip down in Pismo Beach in 1990 when I was forty years old LOL! We had fun but where we lived at the time was 3 hours away the beaches so I retired the idea of getting back into it. We also had a Ventures surf band back in high school in the 60's which kept us in the mood and spent a lot of nights on the beach with guitars, bongos, campfires, beer, marshmellows, etc. Loads of memories...

Great job Scott on researching the Seville! Gibson L5's were great jazz boxes. If it sounds good I would leave it stock. But I might consider a pair of 57 US made humbuckers for an upgrade (my favorite pups).

@ Kuru, +1...I had a buddy that had a Squire Strat made in Japan (like the Squire Tele, I think they were made in the 80's?). Anyway I put his Strat up against my US made Strats, and the rumor is true. It was just as good.

cool

Yep... I can't find it easily but I'll keep looking. From what I remember:

When CBS sold Fender to some employees in the mid- 80s, they sold the company BUT not the factory... while building a new factory and tooling it they shrewdly went to the people who had been putting CBS Fender out of business! They knew the product line at that point was not what anybody wanted... people wanted the specs of the Classic (50s and 60s) Fenders, and the company was not able to do build them. The templates they used for cutting had been worn out and deformed for decades and when remade had just been enlarged. Wood had come to be selected for lowest price instead of any tone or weight considerations... and CBS had enlarged the headstocks just because they wanted giant Fender logos to be more visible on TV. The Japanese factories - led by Tokai - had adapted CNC cutting technology (originally developed to mass-produce rifle stocks) to shape guitar bodies and necks, and had scanned classic instruments from the golden age to reproduce. They established Fender Japan and hired a factory, and 3 lines were produced: Fender MIJ/CIJ, Squier - which was set up as a partnership between Fender and the factory company giving them a share in the profits, and... Fender MIA, parts shipped to be assembled by Fender employees in America and stamped "Made In America." All the parts were made of the same wood on the same equipment side by side... so many were stamped Fender Japan, so many were stamped Fender America, so many were stamped Squier. So the secret thing was that for a third of the price of a USA Fender you were/are getting the same thing for that year or two... some guys know what serial numbers to look for...

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Re: Seville F-Cut Hollowbody Guitar
p90jr #3039848 04/21/20 12:59 AM
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Originally Posted by p90jr
Yep... I can't find it easily but I'll keep looking. From what I remember:

When CBS sold Fender to some employees in the mid- 80s, they sold the company BUT not the factory... while building a new factory and tooling it they shrewdly went to the people who had been putting CBS Fender out of business! They knew the product line at that point was not what anybody wanted... people wanted the specs of the Classic (50s and 60s) Fenders, and the company was not able to do build them. The templates they used for cutting had been worn out and deformed for decades and when remade had just been enlarged. Wood had come to be selected for lowest price instead of any tone or weight considerations... and CBS had enlarged the headstocks just because they wanted giant Fender logos to be more visible on TV. The Japanese factories - led by Tokai - had adapted CNC cutting technology (originally developed to mass-produce rifle stocks) to shape guitar bodies and necks, and had scanned classic instruments from the golden age to reproduce. They established Fender Japan and hired a factory, and 3 lines were produced: Fender MIJ/CIJ, Squier - which was set up as a partnership between Fender and the factory company giving them a share in the profits, and... Fender MIA, parts shipped to be assembled by Fender employees in America and stamped "Made In America." All the parts were made of the same wood on the same equipment side by side... so many were stamped Fender Japan, so many were stamped Fender America, so many were stamped Squier. So the secret thing was that for a third of the price of a USA Fender you were/are getting the same thing for that year or two... some guys know what serial numbers to look for...


This is pretty accurate as far as I know. I had one of the Squier Teles. It might as well have been a 52 reissue with a few minor differences, like a headstock decal and the black finish with a a white pickguard.
Since I don't prefer the 7.5" radius or single coil pickups (Love the sound, hate the hum!!!), I sold it. No regrets, it wouldn't have gotten much playtime in my world of flatter fingerboards and active pickups.

I will point out in passing that Hartley Peavey was the first to manufacture guitars using CNC in Meridian Mississippi. Story goes he went on a hunting trip and a friend loaned him a rifle. He asked how they got the stock to fit so well to the metalworks and his friend told him about CNC. So he bought one, figured it out and started making Peavey Guitars. The T-60 was introduced in 1978.

I've got one of the "Handcrafed In The USA" Peavey Fury basses from the early 80's, it's a great bass.


There is never enough time to be in a hurry...
Re: Seville F-Cut Hollowbody Guitar
KuruPrionz #3039860 04/21/20 02:02 AM
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Originally Posted by KuruPrionz
Originally Posted by p90jr
Yep... I can't find it easily but I'll keep looking. From what I remember:

When CBS sold Fender to some employees in the mid- 80s, they sold the company BUT not the factory... while building a new factory and tooling it they shrewdly went to the people who had been putting CBS Fender out of business! They knew the product line at that point was not what anybody wanted... people wanted the specs of the Classic (50s and 60s) Fenders, and the company was not able to do build them. The templates they used for cutting had been worn out and deformed for decades and when remade had just been enlarged. Wood had come to be selected for lowest price instead of any tone or weight considerations... and CBS had enlarged the headstocks just because they wanted giant Fender logos to be more visible on TV. The Japanese factories - led by Tokai - had adapted CNC cutting technology (originally developed to mass-produce rifle stocks) to shape guitar bodies and necks, and had scanned classic instruments from the golden age to reproduce. They established Fender Japan and hired a factory, and 3 lines were produced: Fender MIJ/CIJ, Squier - which was set up as a partnership between Fender and the factory company giving them a share in the profits, and... Fender MIA, parts shipped to be assembled by Fender employees in America and stamped "Made In America." All the parts were made of the same wood on the same equipment side by side... so many were stamped Fender Japan, so many were stamped Fender America, so many were stamped Squier. So the secret thing was that for a third of the price of a USA Fender you were/are getting the same thing for that year or two... some guys know what serial numbers to look for...


This is pretty accurate as far as I know. I had one of the Squier Teles. It might as well have been a 52 reissue with a few minor differences, like a headstock decal and the black finish with a a white pickguard.
Since I don't prefer the 7.5" radius or single coil pickups (Love the sound, hate the hum!!!), I sold it. No regrets, it wouldn't have gotten much playtime in my world of flatter fingerboards and active pickups.

I will point out in passing that Hartley Peavey was the first to manufacture guitars using CNC in Meridian Mississippi. Story goes he went on a hunting trip and a friend loaned him a rifle. He asked how they got the stock to fit so well to the metalworks and his friend told him about CNC. So he bought one, figured it out and started making Peavey Guitars. The T-60 was introduced in 1978.

I've got one of the "Handcrafed In The USA" Peavey Fury basses from the early 80's, it's a great bass.

Ah! I knew Peavey used CNC machines for the T-60 and T-40, wasn't sure who was first. Cool!

Re: Seville F-Cut Hollowbody Guitar
TheSurfingGuy #3039864 04/21/20 02:30 AM
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One little thing bugging me about that flypaper article is that Gibson bought Epiphone in the late 50s, right? And the reason was to sneak into stores that were Fender dealers, for some or other reason that prohibited it... Norlin turned Epiphone into a budget import brand as the 60s wore on... the article makes it sound like Epiphone was a Japanese company that Gibson then bought. It was Gibson's main competitor in the pre-rock and roll archtop days. I think when the original reason for the acquisition was no longer needed it was thought to be cutting into Gibson's sales (you can probably blame John and George and Paul and their Casinos for that...) so it was majorly downgraded in craftsmanship as far as the electrics went (long-standing designs were all dropped or drastically altered) and it went head to head with the budget offerings from Japan... and was even built in the Masomoku factories and distributed by Aria...

Re: Seville F-Cut Hollowbody Guitar
p90jr #3039868 04/21/20 02:54 AM
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Originally Posted by p90jr
One little thing bugging me about that flypaper article is that Gibson bought Epiphone in the late 50s, right? And the reason was to sneak into stores that were Fender dealers, for some or other reason that prohibited it... Norlin turned Epiphone into a budget import brand as the 60s wore on... the article makes it sound like Epiphone was a Japanese company that Gibson then bought. It was Gibson's main competitor in the pre-rock and roll archtop days. I think when the original reason for the acquisition was no longer needed it was thought to be cutting into Gibson's sales (you can probably blame John and George and Paul and their Casinos for that...) so it was majorly downgraded in craftsmanship as far as the electrics went (long-standing designs were all dropped or drastically altered) and it went head to head with the budget offerings from Japan... and was even built in the Masomoku factories and distributed by Aria...

Yes, Gibson bought Epiphone in 1957 and moved it to Kalamazoo. Guild hired many of the Epiphone workers when Epiphone was sold and moved. They probably knew most of them personally since Guild was more or less founded by ex-Epiphone workers. Hence the outstanding Guild archtops.

Kalamazoo Epiphones were a mixed bag, some lower line versions of Gibsons, some more or less identical except for the headstock (Epiphone Casino and Gibson ES-330) and some unique models like the Al Caiola Signature whch was a tricked out ES-335 with crazy switching options. https://www.vintageguitarandbass.com/epiphone/Al_Caiola.php

We are probably off topic but it's fun!!!
That's a nice Seville though, it bears the design heritage of some great American archtops. :- D


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Re: Seville F-Cut Hollowbody Guitar
TheSurfingGuy #3039952 04/21/20 04:27 PM
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We're not too far off topic Kuru...you and P90 mentioned a few comparisons with Epi and Gibson and P90 also mentioned Aria. I had an Aria back around '79 that was a copy of Gibson's ES-175. I always regretted selling that guitar and I would bet the guy that bought it still has it LOL! The Seville in the OP looks pretty much like a Gibson L5. I would bet that it would sound just like one with an upgrade on the pups and pots. I have an Epi ES-175 Premium that they came out a couple of years ago with US made 57 Humbuckers and 500k pots. It plays and sounds just like the real thing and I didn't have to do the upgrades...It was made in Korea and assembled in the US. The real one goes for $4,000 and my Epi copy was $1,000.

I think Gibson wins the copy contest by buying Epi and can put out an affordable guitar for us little guys and does not have to worry about the competition. But, I wonder if they are selling fewer Gibson 175's? I think Fender opened up their factories in Japan due to having trouble competing with copies of their own products...Here's a little history from Wiki:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fender_Japan

cool


Take care, Larryz
Re: Seville F-Cut Hollowbody Guitar
TheSurfingGuy #3040073 04/22/20 11:00 AM
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Sorry about showing up so late. Life has been way intense here lately.
Hello TheSurferGuy.
I have lived in japan for over 20 years. Part of what brought me here is the music-not only the guitars but some of the bands.
It's an amazing place to get an instrument. Finding a good guitar tech is a lot more of a challenge. Most of the guys in the music stores, even if
they are behind a tech bench, are there to sell stuff and make minor adjustments. There is no such thing as what you or I would know as a 'setup',
aside from what the factory does before shipping to a store. You have to know where to look for a setup.
Just an aside, from LarryZ's article-I have tried several of the 'Orville by Gibson' guitars, including a Steve Perry sig model.
Meh. I would not rush out to get one. Collector value only.
Fujigen on the other hand, makes some magnificent instruments.
Anyway, lovely guitar.


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Re: Seville F-Cut Hollowbody Guitar
TheSurfingGuy #3040680 04/26/20 07:35 AM
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Well I did it again.
It's not the first time I got Joe Perry the guitarist and Steve Perry the singer mixed up.


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Skipsounds on Soundclick:
www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandid=602491
Re: Seville F-Cut Hollowbody Guitar
skipclone 1 #3040681 04/26/20 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by skipclone 1
Well I did it again.
It's not the first time I got Joe Perry the guitarist and Steve Perry the singer mixed up.

No worries, I know the difference but I don't care much either way. :- )


There is never enough time to be in a hurry...
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Re: Seville F-Cut Hollowbody Guitar
KuruPrionz #3040684 04/26/20 09:57 AM
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That is a good outlook.


Same old surprises, brand new cliches-

Skipsounds on Soundclick:
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Re: Seville F-Cut Hollowbody Guitar
TheSurfingGuy #3041743 05/02/20 06:25 PM
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It has a headstock design similar to that which Gibson used on flagship models of various lines, like SG, LP, ES, etc. The Super 400 has the diamond headstock. Your guitar gets around lawsuits with its non-ebony fretboard, chrome tuners, bridge, and tailpiece. The L5 is closer in body shape tp yours. The L5 and 400 are highly sought jazz guitars, with body size and shape being the main difference between them. I have played a 400, and very few guitars among the thousands I have sampled felt more responsive and alive.


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Re: Seville F-Cut Hollowbody Guitar
Bluesape #3041747 05/02/20 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Bluesape
It has a headstock design similar to that which Gibson used on flagship models of various lines, like SG, LP, ES, etc. The Super 400 has the diamond headstock. Your guitar gets around lawsuits with its non-ebony fretboard, chrome tuners, bridge, and tailpiece. The L5 is closer in body shape tp yours. The L5 and 400 are highly sought jazz guitars, with body size and shape being the main difference between them. I have played a 400, and very few guitars among the thousands I have sampled felt more responsive and alive.


It is not identical though, it doesn't have the small "v" at the top that makes the "open book" headstock distinctive. There are tons of variants, Gibson filed sut against Ibanez for copying their headstock. The other details are not possible to trademark. Too many guitars with ebony (or other wood) fretboards and/or chrome hardware, no lawsuit of any kind is possible based on those features. https://flypaper.soundfly.com/discover/truth-lawsuit-era-guitars/

The diamond inlay was never a trademark, it has been in common use as a design element since before Orville Gibson was born.

Things could change with the new management team at Gibson - https://guitar.com/news/were-not-go...rs-releases-statement-on-gibson-lawsuit/

Gibson would to well to begin imitating Heritage in my opinion, they are making great guitars. Both companies have had their ups and downs.


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Re: Seville F-Cut Hollowbody Guitar
TheSurfingGuy #3041752 05/02/20 06:58 PM
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I wouldn't be in huge rush to change the pups until you can ascertain the range of those in it with your best amp. I realize that this is keeper, with little collector value, so the cost isn't a concern. A Korean box this old may also have suspect pots, which could make just changing the pups not the full tonal upgrade you seek.


Never a DUH! moment! Well, almost never. OK, OK! Sometimes never!
Re: Seville F-Cut Hollowbody Guitar
Bluesape #3041753 05/02/20 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Bluesape
I wouldn't be in huge rush to change the pups until you can ascertain the range of those in it with your best amp. I realize that this is keeper, with little collector value, so the cost isn't a concern. A Korean box this old may also have suspect pots, which could make just changing the pups not the full tonal upgrade you seek.

Truth! A quality jack is always recommended too.
I've swapped out a ton of crappy pots, switches and jacks, hooked up with sub-standard cabling. I would have quite a pile of them but I throw them away, junk.


There is never enough time to be in a hurry...

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