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OT: Hard decisions in a world of infections risk


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Just had to have a hard discussion with my wife.

 

We're in shelter in place (wife, stepdaughter and I). I'm high risk. 58, high blood pressure, asthma, and permanent reduced lung function from fungal pneumonia 19 years ago. And it would be very bad if I went down - my mom and extended family depend on me to manage the affairs of multiple households.

 

Her son lives with his father. The kid is still working at Ace Hardware. He's been coming over regularly to spend time, have dinners with us. It's been making me a little nervous.

 

In the back of my head, I know if I get sick that movie might not end well.

 

In tears, she concluded the safest thing is to ask her son not to stop by for a while.

She's a smart lady. She's been staying current on what they're saying about transmission, micro droplets from mere speaking and casual conversation, viability of the virus remaining on surfaces and hanging in the air, all that.

 

But it's not that simple. He's a little lost and has some significant ongoing battles with psychological and emotional challenges. Being around us has been a source of stability and ease and structure that has been really helpful for him. I'm sick to my stomach over this. She is in tears. I feel summarily horrible. I have no idea if it was even the right thing to bring any of this up this morning. I should have kept my mouth shut.

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And I thought that being asked to rehearse and play an online streamed worship service with a 5-6 piece band was a hard decision.

Life is subtractive.
Genres: Jazz, funk, pop, Christian worship, BebHop
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Gear: NS2 + JUNO-G. KingKORG. SP6 at church.

 

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Hey, Tim.

 

You"re not alone. So many of us dealing with this right now on both sides of the equation.

 

My mum is 84, she is still very independent. Still living in her home now a year after my pop passed. But for Covid-19 she really should be with us enjoying her children and grandchildren for several years yet. She"s a stubborn lady and I can see her breaking 90. One of my brothers and a brother in law are still in circulation with work. Mom is lonely, she"d love to see the grandkids but we have to do it from afar. Conference on computer or if we swing by - chat from the porch to the sidewalk. That"s the reality of our situation. We"ll do what we must to care for each other and exist for one another. As my dad said, when he was going through chemo - the alternative is game over. So, we must try.

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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Sad to hear...

 

What my neighbors are doing might be an idea...

 

The son of the wife "visits" their house several times per week, but he stays 6' away from his mother (no hugging); and they only meet in 1 room, the same room all the time (a mud room). He doesn't touch anything and uses the same chair, and literally pees out in the back woods if he has to go. The father, who's at higher risk, never goes into that room, and the mom wipes down the chair, changes her clothes and then washes her hands and face really well after each visit. This way, the mom and the son (who sounds similar to the lad you mentioned) get the connection they both need/want and some face-to-face but at-a-safe-distance time -- and the risk or exposure to the dad is greatly reduced.

 

And my other neighbors across the street had friends over on Sunday -- and the groups sat on opposite sides of the driveway drinking brews, exchanging toasts and news, but with much more than 6 foot separation.

 

Hope it helps.

 

Old No7

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Tough times like this are happening all over. This is the right decision, you don"t want to get them sick, and they don"t want to get you sick. The risk is way too high.

 

And getting your affairs in order is a good thing to do. Knock on wood, you (and all of us) will come through unscathed. But if the worst happens, you don"t want to be scrambling and leaving your loved ones exposed. Consider it a very loving thing to do, to ensure your family is covered in the case you get sick.

Some music I've recorded and played over the years with a few different bands

Tommy Rude Soundcloud

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I"m in a similar situation with high risk factors and second Old Number 7"s post. That"s a good compromise. A doctor friend of ours is fond of saying words to the effect of 'when you think you"re going overboard, it still may not be enough". On nice days can you sit outside 10+ feet apart? Keep any breeze in mind, though.
I would like to apologize to anyone I have not yet offended. Please be patient and I will get to you shortly.
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I saw a thing on Facebook from Tommy Henry (ITGITC) where his wife made some masks, and they delivered them to family by placing the bag of masks in the middle of the driveway, then the went by the home where a parent was living, called him and waved at him through the window.

 

We had to not go to a birthday party for our 4 year old nephew, because we're both considered high risk. I have diabetes, and a serious heart condition, and Cheryl has been battling cancer for 10 years, and is actively getting chemo.

 

Our neighbor's 12 year old son has it, so the entire neighborhood is being very careful.

 

We're stocked up for the next couple weeks, and will order our next grocery run on line.

 

Church and home bible study are Livestream, and Zoom.

 

I miss gigging, but that's not going to happen until there is some form of all clear

 

As far as work, we are Work From Home until at least June

 

Everyone do what you need to stay safe. It will take sacrifices on your family and friends, but this way you'll be there to get together when it's over

"In the beginning, Adam had the blues, 'cause he was lonesome.

So God helped him and created woman.

 

Now everybody's got the blues."

 

Willie Dixon

 

 

 

 

 

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Absolutely the right decision, even at your age do not downplay your risk factors, esp the lung/fungal history.

 

In the course of calling our patients to cancel future visits, we've already learned that two older gentlemen w/ health issues have passed form COVID19 and it's heartbreaking. And half expecting there may be more...

 

Meeting digitally is the way to go.

People assume timbre is a strict progression of input to harmonics, but actually, from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timbrally-wimbrally... stuff

 

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I am not facing such difficult decisions since I am single and have no roommates.

 

Still, it can be complicated just being me!

 

Bottom line is - I don't want to catch anything and I don't want to give anything to anybody.

 

Since somebody would have to be tested more or less at my door prior to entry and I would need to be tested at the same time, social visits are not happening.

I call my friends and family, stay in touch via email, etc.

 

We are all here for each other, we have to stay alive to do that. Your decision is wise but not fun. Stick with it and stick around, you are needed!!!

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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In the next couple weeks I'm supposed to have an appointment with my cardiologist. He wants me to get an echo-cardiogram prior to the visit.

 

I'm probably going to reschedule, because I don't feel safe getting the Echo. It requires the tech to put the ultrasound wand very solidly into my chest and side, and I'm not comfortable being that close to someone other than my wife right now.

 

The precautions I'm seeing are amazing. I took my dog to the vet today, as he needed to update his rabies shot so I could get him some meds he needed. The techs came to the car, checked him in, came and got him, brought him back, and brought his meds, all without my getting out of the car.

 

Tim, you've made the right decision.

"In the beginning, Adam had the blues, 'cause he was lonesome.

So God helped him and created woman.

 

Now everybody's got the blues."

 

Willie Dixon

 

 

 

 

 

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My father who is nearly 80 lives on his own and I"m getting his food and meds sorted. He visits to pick up his shopping and have a cup of coffee, but only outside and a good 10 feet away at all times. I class him as vulnerable so visiting for essentials is crucial. But no way would he get in the house and vice versa. Of course, the weather here is nice at the moment and a half an hour chat out front is fine with me. Maybe he can visit you but with boundaries in place similar to what I"m doing?

 

It"s tough for us all, but the sooner we kick this virus into touch by staying the hell away from everyone, the sooner we can get back to normal.

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A few days ago I joined an impromptu neighborhood get - together outdoors in lawn chairs. We were all a good 10 feet apart, and I felt comfortable with it.

 

My oldest son is married to a postal worker, and will absolutely not allow me to visit no matter what the circumstances. He works in IT, and set up a family video chat in Zoom last Sunday. It was really cool. One of my kids lives in Tokyo, and I hadn't really talked to him since Christmas.

 

A couple of weeks ago I got a FB video call from a bartender in one of the clubs I work regularly. When I answered to my surprise there were about 10 bartenders and regulars in little squares on my phone screen saying hi! Most were drinking at home, and for some reason included me - even though I don't drink. It was fun to catch up.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that social distancing doesn't have to be strictly contact or no contact. There is a middle ground. Only you knows what works best for you Tim. Best of luck to you in whatever you choose :)

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You have done the right thing. Worst case, if he were to get you sick it would probably impact him far worse than not letting him come over.

 

Besides video and phone, perhaps having him come by and you all can talk outside at a safe distance. Being outside does make a difference from what I'm reading. Beyond that initial hug, how close do you need to be to relatives anyway :D

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Trust your instincts and the comments above - if you are in a high-risk category, better safe than sorry.

 

Although often a scofflaw by nature (rock-n'-roll!), I am also a biochemist and have done a significant amount of laboratory tissue-culture in the past.

 

Doing so has made me really come to appreciate how easy it is to transfer germs/bacteria/viruses unwittingly.

 

Tissue culture work (growing mammalian cells in little dishes with a cover on top) is a great way to learn to check your ego.

 

You may THINK you were being very careful, did everything perfectly and were completely aseptic, but when you check on your experiment the next day, and see an infection in your cells, it is very clear that you were not.

 

Note that these infections in your little glass cell culture dishes can occur even though you were:

1) wearing gloves, 2) had wiped everything down with ethanol, and 3) were working in a Bio Safety Cabinet (basically an enclosed cabinet that has a glass front that you slide your hands under, that also has a stream of air blowing down, behind the glass plate so that germs can't waft in easily).

 

EVERYTHING can be contaminated if you are not careful. People really don't realize how much they touch their face, spit tiny droplets when they talk, etc.

 

So, given that you are personally in a high-risk group, the person in question is an adolescent and thus prone to distraction, and you are living in an area where there is significant infections going on, I don't think you are being too paranoid.

 

This will all be over soon - also, if you did get sick, your wife (and step-son) would feel terrible, so if nothing else do it for them.

(Edit - I see Stokely already pointed that last part out- but worth repeating)

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People really don't realize how much they touch their face, spit tiny droplets when they talk, etc.

I never realized how much I touched my face until being told I"m not supposed to touch my face.

 

Anyway, wishing you all the best, Tim.

Stuff and things.
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Definitely the right choice. I'm also in the high risk category, diagnosed with COPD in summer 2008 (with good reason to believe it was there for several years before).

 

The pain that he will go through now is insignificant compared to what would be if he did keep coming and you DID become infected and pass.

 

It is hard. I haven't had quite that circumstance. Only other person who has been in our home is a daughter who picked up groceries. She is a nurse at the hospital. She, and we keep our distance (especially me). Only other human contact has been grocery pickup in parking lot. Definitely hand washing and cleaning up after each.

 

My largest business client is one that I put in a firewall and VPN about 5 years ago. Fortunately, I can fix most problems remotely. Plus, they have reduced people in the office as much as they can - one person at a time, the office manager has to process real estate pictures and put them on the NAS unit, and the bookkeeper (her husband has risk problems, not sure if she is going in at all). I tried to get them to get additional VPN licenses 5 years ago, just resent instructions on how to use the one connection, and I can add licenses remotely if they get them. They are in what NC considers an essential job (and so am I when doing work for essential clients), but I will NOT do any service calls for the duration.

Howard Grand|Hamm SK1-73|Kurz PC2|PC2X|PC3|PC3X|PC361; QSC K10's

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Jim

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It's a personal decision that I don't think anyone can make for you. But I would present to you that the options aren't binary as some would suggest. People are finding safe ways to deal with the situation like drive by birthday celebrations with signs, balloons, streamers, and cheats from cars driving past the house. I don't know all the details of what may or may not be additional safe contacts beyond purely digital. Perhaps meeting in the yard outside with masks and a minimum amount of personal space, preceded and followed with rigorous cleaning/disinfecting would be a compromise. People are finding clever ways to stay safe while also staying connected. It's a personal choice to decide what level makes everyone comfortable so long as you are being responsible per the guidelines in the process.

Dan

 

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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Impossible situation.

 

FWIW, on this minor point: I just yesterday read a metastudy that says that although the droplets do live on surfaces--for varying amounts of time depending on the surface--to date there have been no known transmissions this way.

 

Another option if your wife finds it too hard to be without her son, or to conscience him not seeing her, is for you, personally, to pick a room to isolate in for a couple of weeks, while your wife enforces proper distancing and hygiene with her son. Alternatively, they can do the 6-feet-apart thing outside of the house (i.e., in the yard), with masks. Although the aerosolized particles do linger, they don't really float around, and everyone from Fauci to my elderly MD piano student has said this is still a reliable guideline.

 

Hang in and stay well.

Now out! "Mind the Gap," a 24-song album of new material.
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Brotha Tim, you and your family are doing the right thing especially if it mitigates your exposure to a potentially lethal health risk.

 

This situation will pass in a few more weeks. Hang in there. :cool:

PD

 

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy"

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It's a personal decision that I don't think anyone can make for you. But I would present to you that the options aren't binary as some would suggest. People are finding safe ways to deal with the situation like drive by birthday celebrations with signs, balloons, streamers, and cheats from cars driving past the house. I don't know all the details of what may or may not be additional safe contacts beyond purely digital. Perhaps meeting in the yard outside with masks and a minimum amount of personal space, preceded and followed with rigorous cleaning/disinfecting would be a compromise. People are finding clever ways to stay safe while also staying connected. It's a personal choice to decide what level makes everyone comfortable so long as you are being responsible per the guidelines in the process.

My neighbor came by a few days ago...it was pleasantly warm and we had a couple beers on my deck sitting about 10 feet apart. He brought his own beer and I had mine so there was no contact at all.

 

Last week my GF's ball team had to cancel a get together that had been planned a couple months ago. Instead we all got on Zoom and had a 3 hour "party" from the comforts of our individual living rooms. My GF is also using Facetime a lot to chat with her friends and a couple days ago she took one of her friends on a "tour" of the reno I'm doing in the house.

 

We are limited to what we should do and what we are comfortable doing individually, but with technology and a little common sense complete isolation isn't always necessary.

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This thing has me so freaked out and paranoid, I've extended the social distance to 100 ft, and 500 ft if I'm outdoors and downwind. For all intents and purposes, I'm staying far away from everyone except my wife. We're getting everything delivered, and letting it sit outside for 24 hours before we touch it.

 

We had a house cleaner that came every 2 weeks. Not anymore. We're continuing to pay them, just can't take the risk of having them come inside.

 

Virtual meetings throughout the day for work, then in the evening with family and friends. What a scary, strange screwed up time we're all living in.

Some music I've recorded and played over the years with a few different bands

Tommy Rude Soundcloud

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We are limited to what we should do and what we are comfortable doing individually, but with technology and a little common sense complete isolation isn't always necessary.

 

Indeed. Though the popular term is social distancing, it's really physical distancing. We can stay in touch socially pretty easily these days as long as we have reliable internet access.

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I hate to read that, Tim. Please stay safe and stay strong.

They say this is a "war", I don't agree (I'm a biologist) but if we want to use that analogy, then we have no hope in this first onslaught. The enemy is unknown, invisible and omnipresent. We can only run for cover and hope to slow it down. I do believe we will win the war, but the first battle is already lost.

I am Italian, so I've been witnessing this thing for almost 2 months now. The first death was reported on Feb 22nd, and we've been in total lockdown from March 9th, allowed to go out only for food and emergencies.

I live alone in a small apartment, no relatives, cats or dogs.

My mom is 76 and lives alone in another town, and I haven't seen her in 2 months now.

My sister lives with her family in yet another town.

My girlfriend, who I love to death and miss terribly, lives 5 minutes from my house and we haven't seen in more than one month.

 

It is tough. But we need to cower down so we can literally live to fight another day. I am 44 and in good health, so it would be unlikely that I'd die from the infection, though by now there have been plenty of cases of patients in their 30s-40s-50s who had severe or lethal effects, so I know I am by no means safe.

But most of all, if I discovered that I was an asymptomatic carrier and I helped spread the disease and kill other people, I would be devastated. These times are already stressful enough. Let's play it as safe as possible (which admittedly is, not much) and keep close to our loved ones digitally.

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Similar situation with my daughter, who lives with her mom and her mom's boyfriend. I've got a preëxisting lung condition, as well.

 

To make matters worse, her mom is high-risk.

 

It's challenging, but the decision not to see each other is the right one. Facetime, messaging, phone calls are the way to go.

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Definitely the right decision for all the reasons stated above. I have the same situation with my daughter, who mostly works from home, but still goes to the gallery where she works from time to time.

 

It"s hard being apart, but would be harder on everyone if someone got the virus. I too am at high risk, and my wife and I are over 60.

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