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Organ Modules / Expanders / Desktops 2020
#3037172 04/06/20 10:40 PM
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Very cool news very recently on GSi’s VB3 II now available in the expander format.


Somewhere between $850 and $999 US. They have US distribution and dealers.

Makes me wonder what that field of options looks like - who is still actively building these?

[Linked Image from shop.keyboardpartner.de]
Keyboard Partner's HX3 Drawbar expander is $1282.46 US (conversion from euro) plus shipping. Is there a US distributor of these?

[Linked Image from b3guys.com]
Viscount Legend Expander is $795 US at the B3guys.com

[Linked Image from images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com]
Ferrofish B4000+ $486 plus shipping to US. Not sure if they have US distribution

Any others?

Second hand there’s the Voce V5, Roland VK-8M, Hammond XMC2 w/remote, Viscount DB3...


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Re: Organ Modules / Expanders / Desktops 2020
ElmerJFudd #3037182 04/06/20 11:34 PM
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From a MAP perspective there is only a $200 difference between the Gemini module and the VB3 desktop. The D9x is preassembled and $329. He adds VB3 to it and that equates to $500-$650 additional price over the D9x alone. The reason I purchased the Gemini module was that it wasnt that much more than HX3 module which only did organ. For a few hundred dollars more I got equivalent organ/leslie plus 25 additional top notch instruments, all which I pretty much use. In other words I couldnt justify just the organ module for the price and this looks to be the same situation.


57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil PC3; GEM Equinox; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini Desktop Module;
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Re: Organ Modules / Expanders / Desktops 2020
Delaware Dave #3037183 04/06/20 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Delaware Dave
From a MAP perspective there is only a $200 difference between the Gemini module and the VB3 desktop. The D9x is preassembled and $329. He adds VB3 to it and that equates to $500-$650 additional price over the D9x alone. The reason I purchased the Gemini module was that it wasnt that much more than HX3 module which only did organ. For a few hundred dollars more I got equivalent organ/leslie plus 25 additional top notch instruments, all which I pretty much use. In other words I couldnt justify just the organ module for the price and this looks to be the same situation.

You can map your Kurzweil faders successfully to control the drawbars on the Gemini’s VB3? Do you like the VB3 engine better than the Voce? Can you use the Voce as dedicated MIDI controller for the Gemini?

I suspect you could also sell off the Voce and grab a drawbar controller... something like the studio-Logic SL Mixface

[Linked Image from studiologic-music.com]

Last edited by ElmerJFudd; 04/06/20 11:46 PM.

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Re: Organ Modules / Expanders / Desktops 2020
ElmerJFudd #3037189 04/07/20 12:03 AM
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I could and actually do this for lower drawbar control, using the voce for upper drawbars and the PC3's 9 sliders for the lower drawbars. The tricky parts are the percussion controls and especially C/V. Guido's V/C control uses the same CC# and different data values for each of the 6 settings. At the end of the day the voce midi drawbar was simple to map using its traditional controls. V/C, percussion and leslie speed and leslie on/off map to the gemini. The only thing the Voce drawbar unit doesn't have is independent upper/lower C/V on/off, just upper on/off control so I use a switch on my PC3 to turn lower C/V on/off. Everything else is controlled by the Voce. To map every VB3 function to the PC3 is possible but I would have switches all over the place and it would become ackward to control. Using the voce midi drawbar unit for VB3 makes the controls identical to using the Voce V5+ so no matter which one I use (Voce w/ Vent or Gemini module w/ drawbar unit) the process of controlling either module is the same.


57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil PC3; GEM Equinox; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini Desktop Module;
http://www.dyinbreedband.com
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Re: Organ Modules / Expanders / Desktops 2020
ElmerJFudd #3037191 04/07/20 12:22 AM
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Re: Organ Modules / Expanders / Desktops 2020
ElmerJFudd #3037193 04/07/20 12:29 AM
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Just ordered new HX-3.5.
Great support. I get to keep my Plexi until the new unit arrives.
2nd German developer I know to give such great service.
Creamware/SonicCore also does this but their DSP Rack is 3500 USD.

I still gang MIDI CC#’s onto an expression pedal.
Playing Horns + B3 parts allows me no 1 handed performances.


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Re: Organ Modules / Expanders / Desktops 2020
ElmerJFudd #3037201 04/07/20 01:41 AM
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The Crumar MOJO Desktop eerily reminds me of the Roland VK-8M which I used to own, man that had a great sound.


Be inspired & inspire others.
Re: Organ Modules / Expanders / Desktops 2020
ElmerJFudd #3037204 04/07/20 02:16 AM
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Of course the D9X - pre assembled is $329.
It appears to be a great match for VB3II on Mac or PC. How is it for controlling VB3II on the Gemini?


Live: Casio PX-560, Roland VR-700
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Re: Organ Modules / Expanders / Desktops 2020
ElmerJFudd #3037212 04/07/20 03:09 AM
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I was thinking more along the line of the D9X + B-3X for iOS, but it will map to anything!


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Re: Organ Modules / Expanders / Desktops 2020
drawback #3037215 04/07/20 03:36 AM
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Originally Posted by drawback
I was thinking more along the line of the D9X + B-3X for iOS, but it will map to anything!
I also was thinking of the D9x but also paired with a D9u controlling B3x. But because of some virus some people are talking about I'm going to wait to see who is a functioning business in a week or 2. It would seem that the D9 units dont have expression pedal jacks. This alesis box seems interesting and useful.

Alesis control hub:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/de...utm_content=display&utm_term=300x250

Re: Organ Modules / Expanders / Desktops 2020
ElmerJFudd #3037246 04/07/20 12:28 PM
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i think you can still get the hx3 expander through diversi organ ,might be the only module currently that as an 11 pin connector
for a leslie

Re: Organ Modules / Expanders / Desktops 2020
ElmerJFudd #3037255 04/07/20 01:18 PM
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My problem with some organ modules is they are too large/bulky, and would seem to easily overwhelm the available real estate on many keyboards. I understand as size goes down so does available space for features/controls. I’ve always liked the size of the Voce V5 (gigged with one for years) although no built in Leslie sim...


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Re: Organ Modules / Expanders / Desktops 2020
Jr. Deluxe #3037258 04/07/20 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Jr. Deluxe
It would seem that the D9 units dont have expression pedal jacks.

I was wondering about this too, and there are no photos of the back panel, but take a look from around 3:00.


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Re: Organ Modules / Expanders / Desktops 2020
drawback #3037262 04/07/20 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by drawback
Originally Posted by Jr. Deluxe
It would seem that the D9 units dont have expression pedal jacks.

I was wondering about this too, and there are no photos of the back panel, but take a look from around 3:00.

Based on the video he indicates that there is an 1/8" jack that you can use in conjunction with a 1/8" to a 5-pin MIDI connector. There is also a separate pedal jack that is programmable. So you could either send expression MIDI from your controller and use a product like a Midisolutions Footswitch Controller or program the pedal jack to accept expression.


57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil PC3; GEM Equinox; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini Desktop Module;
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Re: Organ Modules / Expanders / Desktops 2020
Delaware Dave #3037270 04/07/20 02:50 PM
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Yes the D9X has a TRS 1/4" jack which can be programmed for different functions. The original D9U only had the mini-jack for MIDI. The D9X is far superior to the D9U - one of the biggest drawbacks on the D9U was having to use a microswitch on the rear of the unit to switch between upper and lower drawbars. If anyone is thinking of buying one I would order it assembled. I built the D9U from a kit and found it quite tricky despite having built a lot of stuff over the years.

The issue I have with the drawbar modules or controllers is finding a good place to mount them. The Nord Electro 73s are good in this respect and the Vox Continental has a lot of flat space too - it's on the right though and I prefer to have drawbars on the left.

My latest cunning plan is to pick up a Viscount DB3 Module - they go for less then £100 on eBay in the UK - and use that to control my Gemini. At least you get the optional organ sound which you could always run through a Vent. I would still have the problem of how/where to mount it - like someone said earlier it almost seems less hassle to just use a dedicated organ keyboard (space might be the issue though). If a Hammond XK-1 came up at a good price that would be my ideal controller for the Gemini as it also offer 3 external zones.

Maybe Crumar/GSi will release a DMC controller with a built in Gemini and a full set of drawbars - essentially the DMC-122 without the keys.

Last edited by ChazKeys; 04/07/20 02:53 PM.

P6, SEM, Odyssey, Sub37, Gemini, DM12, CP73 + YC25D
M102+770, Suitcase 73, EP200A, Vent, K8s
Re: Organ Modules / Expanders / Desktops 2020
ElmerJFudd #3037273 04/07/20 03:02 PM
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I’m SUPER excited for the Mojo Desktop. I no longer want to bring my (10-year-old Windows 7 laptop) to gigs. I absolutely love VB3-II.

Well I was planning on buying the Mojo Desktop as soon as it was available, but with the uncertainty of everything in the world right now, my wife and I are not doing any extra spending.

Also, regarding a midi drawbar controller, I have had pretty good luck with the iControls unit (programming it seemed a little clunky)

https://www.adorama.com/idicontrolsb.html

I had never heard of that StudioLogic SL Mixface. Looks nicer than my iControls.


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Re: Organ Modules / Expanders / Desktops 2020
ElmerJFudd #3037276 04/07/20 03:17 PM
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So am I understanding that, unlike the mojo 61, the desktop is only organ?

That pretty much limits my interest if so. As it is I can't buy anything with the economy in turmoil and my job in jeopardy, but I'd want the other mojo sounds ideally. Heck I'd want the mojo 61 but I don't want to bring 3 keyboards!

Re: Organ Modules / Expanders / Desktops 2020
Skinny #3037284 04/07/20 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Skinny
I’m SUPER excited for the Mojo Desktop. I no longer want to bring my (10-year-old Windows 7 laptop) to gigs. I absolutely love VB3-II.

Well I was planning on buying the Mojo Desktop as soon as it was available, but with the uncertainty of everything in the world right now, my wife and I are not doing any extra spending.

Also, regarding a midi drawbar controller, I have had pretty good luck with the iControls unit (programming it seemed a little clunky)

https://www.adorama.com/idicontrolsb.html

I had never heard of that StudioLogic SL Mixface. Looks nicer than my iControls.

The Mixface is very versatile and perfect if you have an SL73 or similar. I'm still using my ancient Korg NanoKontrol with my Gemini.

Maybe the Mojo Desktop will get a firmware upgrade and get more sounds?

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Last edited by ChazKeys; 04/07/20 04:18 PM.

P6, SEM, Odyssey, Sub37, Gemini, DM12, CP73 + YC25D
M102+770, Suitcase 73, EP200A, Vent, K8s
Re: Organ Modules / Expanders / Desktops 2020
Stokely #3037301 04/07/20 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Stokely
Heck I'd want the mojo 61 but I don't want to bring 3 keyboards!
So what you want is the Gemini module Midi'ing it to one of the keyboards that you already have.


57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil PC3; GEM Equinox; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini Desktop Module;
http://www.dyinbreedband.com
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Re: Organ Modules / Expanders / Desktops 2020
ElmerJFudd #3037310 04/07/20 06:31 PM
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The HX3 Drawbar Expander is $1090 actually (19% German VAT does not apply to sales outside the EU).

Re: Organ Modules / Expanders / Desktops 2020
ChazKeys #3037450 04/08/20 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by ChazKeys
I'm still using my ancient Korg NanoKontrol with my Gemini.
Several years ago when I was looking for a "drawbar" controller for VB3, I couldn't find an original NanoKontrol, so I grabbed a NanoKontrol 2 from GC.
They got rid of the 9th slider on version 2 (because... reasons?) Also, IIRC, I couldn't get one of the sliders to map to VB3, and I couldn't get one of the buttons to be 'toggle' instead of 'momentary'.


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Re: Organ Modules / Expanders / Desktops 2020
ElmerJFudd #3037451 04/08/20 08:08 AM
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I got a couple korg nano-k v1s. Works good with vb3. Works good with b3x. Easy to configure with the korg editor. But not as easy to grab a handful of bars as the real thing . This makes the D9x look real good. Probably my next money hole.

Re: Organ Modules / Expanders / Desktops 2020
ElmerJFudd #3037511 04/08/20 03:16 PM
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I only see one c/v on/off control switch on the D9x and also don't see the leslie on/off switch. I guess you can program the unit to do whatever you want with any of the switches but it seems odd that the unit wouldnt just have these switches available to the user. But with midi drawbar modules built mainly to organ format being a scarce market item to purchase it might make sense to pickup one of these.


57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil PC3; GEM Equinox; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini Desktop Module;
http://www.dyinbreedband.com
www.facebook.com/acoustaxx/
Re: Organ Modules / Expanders / Desktops 2020
Delaware Dave #3037548 04/08/20 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Delaware Dave
I only see one c/v on/off control switch on the D9x and also don't see the leslie on/off switch. I guess you can program the unit to do whatever you want with any of the switches but it seems odd that the unit wouldnt just have these switches available to the user. But with midi drawbar modules built mainly to organ format being a scarce market item to purchase it might make sense to pickup one of these.

I haven't checked the Arduino program for the D9X but pretty sure when you use the select upper/lower/pedal that will route CV control to the lower manual. There is also the shift key which could give you a secondary function.

I like the D9 series but I wish it was mounted on a chassis like the desktop. When I had the D9U it needed a completely flat surface as there was no base under the drawbars - easy to knock one up but it would be nice if it was supplied in a wooden chassis. Remember the NI B4D that was a nice drawbar controller with wooden sides and base. However, not useable with Gemini because each set of drawbars sent the same CC# but on 3 different channels.

A drawbar controller needs to have some weight so you can grab a handful f drawbars without worrying about it slipping off your controller keyboard,

Last edited by ChazKeys; 04/08/20 05:15 PM.

P6, SEM, Odyssey, Sub37, Gemini, DM12, CP73 + YC25D
M102+770, Suitcase 73, EP200A, Vent, K8s
Re: Organ Modules / Expanders / Desktops 2020
ElmerJFudd #3037563 04/08/20 05:57 PM
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The D9X reminds me on my B4D controller on which I replaced the bulky wood panels with aluminum. Together with a Midi Solutions Event Processor the B4D can control just any clonewheel. I am still using it successfully with HX3, Hammond XM2 module and with B3X. Compared to D9X the B4D has preset buttons which I am using a lot. The only gripe I have are the ratched drawbars. Moving them feels much too stiff.

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