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Re: Is Progressive Rock Keyboard Playing in Your " Top 5 " ?
GRollins #3037647 04/08/20 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by GRollins
Su
4) #3 brings up the "What is progressive music?" question. It's hard to define. I maintain that prog is the category people dump music in when they can't figure out where else to put it. I, for one, hear nothing whatsoever in common between, say, Yes and Pink Floyd, yet they're both classified as prog.

Grey

yeah, the genre is subject to discussion on definition etc etc.

My O/p identified 3 current artists of the 'type ' of current progressive music where keyboards are the deal.

IMO, Steven Wilson is 1 of the few that has carried the torch for progressive rock music.

Yeah, yeah, he does a few commercial songs, and he slips into metal often.
So he is 'blending ' from other artists, other influences. I really enjoy that.

But I was interested in hearing from keyboard players where progressive rock, or hybrid rock metal is a Priority to play, perform, record, compose from.

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Re: Is Progressive Rock Keyboard Playing in Your " Top 5 " ?
GregC #3037674 04/09/20 12:18 AM
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Though I can't claim to be a keyboard player, properly speaking (at the end of the day, I'm still more string oriented), prog (by some definition) is undoubtedly a priority with me. Strike that. It's THE priority.

With the caveat that my definition of prog may not mesh with others'.

Grey


I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play.
Re: Is Progressive Rock Keyboard Playing in Your " Top 5 " ?
GregC #3037675 04/09/20 12:29 AM
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I’m clearly the old guy here... progressive? This stuff may be called progressive in 2020 but real progressive was long time ago, with less head banging, vocal screaming nonsense...try listening to true classic progressive artists...this is something...but to define it as progressive?
Times may changes, standards must remain...


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Re: Is Progressive Rock Keyboard Playing in Your " Top 5 " ?
Motif88 #3037676 04/09/20 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Motif88
I’m clearly the old guy here... progressive? This stuff may be called progressive in 2020 but real progressive was long time ago, with less head banging, vocal screaming nonsense...try listening to true classic progressive artists...this is something...but to define it as progressive?
Times may changes, standards must remain...

I am 67. Often the old guy here.

I don't expect another new Yes or new ELP.

Just the same, there are artists worthy of your time.

Check out Steven Wilson. He is a hybrid of sorts , an excellent song writer
and has stellar keyboard players. Adam Holzman is talented.

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Re: Is Progressive Rock Keyboard Playing in Your " Top 5 " ?
GregC #3037682 04/09/20 01:07 AM
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Old school prog, yes. Anything approaching prog metal, no.


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Re: Is Progressive Rock Keyboard Playing in Your " Top 5 " ?
GregC #3037685 04/09/20 01:11 AM
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Greatest ‘Prog’ albums of all time were the first four Kansas albums. Prog is just some newish label people have stuck on old album rock bands. It’s all KSHE 95, Real Rock Radio.

A friend asked me to do a Dream Threater’esque sort of thing after hearing me spew on some bullshit in the store. But the gig wouldn’t have paid anything. I mean ... a lot of us grew up playing Bach, Liszt, Beethoven, Bramhs, etc.... Proggy Metal is fun. I love Jens and Jordan and Derek.

In high school my metal band dabbled in that sort of thing with our original and I played Fusion one night a week in college as an open mic night host band (great crowds on a Thursday just because the bar was behind the quad next to campus). But today if I want to sharpen chops I go back to my classical roots.

I never could play effing Chopin. Too subtle.

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Re: Is Progressive Rock Keyboard Playing in Your " Top 5 " ?
GregC #3037686 04/09/20 01:20 AM
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Interested in listening to old school progressive but strangely enough I'm not interested in playing it nor learning to play it. Go figure.


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Re: Is Progressive Rock Keyboard Playing in Your " Top 5 " ?
GregC #3037703 04/09/20 02:11 AM
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REAL progressive metal IS progressive. The only thing that makes it metal is just being heavier. In fact I sometimes question the "metal" label of some of it more than the progressive part. But labels are labels. Google all the subgenres of metal sometime. It's laughable and metal heads self-deprecate and laugh at it as well. But I think progressive metal is a real thing that IS progressive and is at least hard enough to qualify as one of the many subgenres of metal.


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Re: Is Progressive Rock Keyboard Playing in Your " Top 5 " ?
GregC #3037707 04/09/20 02:15 AM
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I love this whole album, but whatever your influences, I don't know how any red blooded, Hammond loving keyboard player can't appreciate this:



And they don't over do the Drop D and no Cookie Monster vocals....heavy but include all the elements of prog with odd time signatures, intricate solos, nonstandard sing formats, etc.

Last edited by J. Dead; 04/09/20 02:17 AM.

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Re: Is Progressive Rock Keyboard Playing in Your " Top 5 " ?
GregC #3037720 04/09/20 02:51 AM
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I really dig Sherinian’s stuff, solo as well as contributions. DT’s Once In A Live Time spent a cool year in my car’s CD player. Black Country Communion has a large niche in my playlist.
However, my own most successful band experience was really cool, original hard rock stuff with twin lead guitars and lots of keys, but I was miserable for most of that six years; partly because of the toxic personality conflicts but also because all I ever wanted to do was grow up to be an Allman Brother...too old school for those cats. ’Can’t help who we are and what we like though, right?

I like listening to prog but gotta be in the mood. A song or two in a gig night is okay, but cannot commit to one genre all night except maybe some rockin blues or of course Greg Allman stuff.


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Re: Is Progressive Rock Keyboard Playing in Your " Top 5 " ?
EscapeRocks #3037728 04/09/20 03:29 AM
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Originally Posted by EscapeRocks
For me, my number one is Tuomas Holopainen of Nightwish
Originally Posted by David Holloway
Originally Posted by EscapeRocks
For me, my number one is Tuomas Holopainen of Nightwish

Great pick David. I love this cover they do:

Originally Posted by Nathanael_I
The new Nightwish triple album arrived two days ago. Great album!

Trans Siberian Orchestra are the ones who get virtuoso keyboards, guitar, violin, bass, drums, string, horns, all the everything going and everyone has a good time from kids to senior citizens. Those shows are amazing. They are also through composed, so that keeps a lid on too many notes with not enough to say. They aren't "metal" enough for the growling crowd. They aren't "out" enough for prog, but they put on a great show, and give arenas of average folk fairly complex material to digest. There's always a story, and the live show is super well produced.
Originally Posted by EscapeRocks
Love me some TSO keyboards


Well, Nightwish falls squarely in Symphonic Metal and Gothic Metal, Trans-Siberian as symphonic progressive imo, and Cradle of Filth in gothic/power/black metal depending on the album.

I dislike metal in general but I do like symphonic metal, so I’m a big Nightwish fan. But they’re not really progressive rock, so I’m not sure they fit this thread.


To answer the question, progressive rock keyboard playing is definitely not in my top five for playing, nor for listening. A few exceptions like Boston and Rush for listening, but that’s about it.


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Re: Is Progressive Rock Keyboard Playing in Your " Top 5 " ?
GregC #3037731 04/09/20 03:35 AM
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Sorry if I appear to be a Sherinian fanboy, but unabashedly...I am. Not just because of his own stuff, but because if what I have learned from him during our sessions, If you are interested, just reach out to him, his rates aren't out of line from any other teacher except that it's F-Img Derek Sherinian. He will try to sell you a red keyboard. He loves red keyboards. Just tell him you're only in it for the lesson. He's really good. We picked songs I was working on and he gave me specific arpeggios, scales, excercises, riffs, etc to work on in the key and the mode of the songs we were in the process of writing so that when the time came, I was well equipped to write and performs a solo. Great guy, highly recommended.


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Re: Is Progressive Rock Keyboard Playing a Priority ?
GregC #3037732 04/09/20 03:51 AM
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Aw, well this thread is starting to get fun, isn't it? laugh

So if everyone loved BTBAM so much (which again, I'm not really into, I knew their name and only realized last week they have keys), well then I'm sure everyone will be head over heels for The Locust!



This one is a 40 minute set, but skip to just under three minutes in for them to get on stage and start playing. Genuinely curious how far into this one everyone gets. smile YT might be being dumb and starting the video where I was when I tried to embed it.



Anyway, perhaps more along this forum's speed (I know brother New&Improv is a big fan) would be Elephant9. More in the jammy modern heavy organ stuff, but with all that cool Scandinavian vibe going on. smile





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Re: Is Progressive Rock Keyboard Playing a Priority ?
GregC #3037735 04/09/20 04:03 AM
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There is a Prog/Metal band here in New Jersey called Symphony X that has been around since about 1994. Few people in their home state know who they are but they have been huge in Japan since their first album and have also built a big following in Europe. Much of their earlier material was Keyboard heavy incorporating excerpts from Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Verdi, Bartok, Paganini, Holst and other classical composers. Their later material still has Keyboards but usually in a more supportive role.



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Re: Is Progressive Rock Keyboard Playing a Priority ?
GregC #3037736 04/09/20 04:18 AM
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Yeah Symphony X is pretty decent. I confess I'm not much into symphonic or black metal so Nightwish isn't as much my speed. And TSO is definitely its own thing.

Also shoutout to forum member MorayM who plays in a Rammstein tribute in the UK.


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Re: Is Progressive Rock Keyboard Playing a Priority ?
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Quote
Also shoutout to forum member MorayM who plays in a Rammstein tribute in the UK.
I want video. Du Hast, please...and I wanna see that brother on a treadmill. hitt

Keine Lust (with fat suits) will do the trick as well... grin rocker

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Re: Is Progressive Rock Keyboard Playing in Your " Top 5 " ?
GregC #3037753 04/09/20 12:23 PM
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Yep, rock/metal keyboards in all flavours is a big part of my playing. I got into keyboard playing at the beginning of the 80s with all the electronic music bands on the scene, then mid 80s when Yngwie Malmsteen came out, my guitarist brother exposed me to this band and Jens Johansson changed my outlook on keyboards, as did Jan Hammer and from there I wanted to play keyboards in a lead role and playing within a rock/metal style which led me on to fusion, funk and have always loved new age. The likes of Jens, Jan Hammer, Derek Sherinian seem to have a more guitaristic approach to rock keyboard playing than most as the guitar has been an influence to them like it has to me. My challenge has always been finding like minded keyboardists with the same taste. Good to see lots here !!

Re: Is Progressive Rock Keyboard Playing a Priority ?
GregC #3037760 04/09/20 12:34 PM
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In the world of more contemporary heavy bands with prominent keyboards, Opeth definitely stands out. They're not a band I'm super familiar with (my biggest hard rock/metal period was in high school, and other than a handful of bands I really fell in love with I was more metal-fan-adjacent to my best friend), but they write really cool stuff with prominent Mellotron, Hammond, and Wurlitzer.



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Re: Is Progressive Rock Keyboard Playing in Your " Top 5 " ?
GregC #3037766 04/09/20 01:11 PM
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I have some like minded friends who I can round up to do a 3 song set for an open stage - willing to dig in and play some Yes, Rush, King Crimson, Genesis type material. It gets great response from other musicians in the room, of course. Peer respect from your fellow musicians is who you primarily perform it for who appreciate the effort to learn the material.

There isn't much of a market here to build a fan base for that kind of thing in the bar band scene. Perhaps a regional tribute band with a deeper effort to authenticity of the sound/performance is a path for this. Not sure I am going to gig with a Mellotron M400 or dress up in Japanese silk kimonos onstage anytime soon to achieve that.


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Re: Is Progressive Rock Keyboard Playing a Priority ?
GregC #3037769 04/09/20 01:20 PM
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I grew up with prog, my first band did Genesis and stuff, and especially Banco del Mutuo Soccorso, leading Italian prog band. I got the jazz bug quite early, though, and that interrupted the love affair with prog for a while. But in the 90s and early 2000s, I played in a group with elements of Banco, we did five albums doing a mixture of prog and ethnic Mediterranean/Eastern music.

Prog/metal bores me a little bit after a while, but it just depends. One of my dreams, which in all likelihood will stay a dream, is to play in a prog/funk project - complex but fun! But I would need a virtuoso guitarist to collaborate with for the composing. I'm sick and tired to write all my music alone, and I already have lots of unpublished projects waiting in line...

Re: Is Progressive Rock Keyboard Playing a Priority ?
marino #3037770 04/09/20 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by marino
One of my dreams, which in all likelihood will stay a dream, is to play in a prog/funk project - complex but fun!
One of my main projects, Thru Spectrums, could definitely be defined as "prog/funk," and I will affirm that it is a ton of fun. That's the band that really got me learning to play Hammond "properly" when I joined in 2014. Also the band that keeps me sharp on voicing chords with upper extensions, which is harder to get away with on heavy, high-gain prog/metal material.
Originally Posted by marino
But I would need a virtuoso guitarist to collaborate with for the composing.
Yup, that's definitely the reason my band works.


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Re: Is Progressive Rock Keyboard Playing a Priority ?
SamuelBLupowitz #3037774 04/09/20 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by samuelblupowitz
Originally Posted by marino
One of my dreams, which in all likelihood will stay a dream, is to play in a prog/funk project - complex but fun!
One of my main projects, Thru Spectrums, could definitely be defined as "prog/funk," and I will affirm that it is a ton of fun. That's the band that really got me learning to play Hammond "properly" when I joined in 2014. Also the band that keeps me sharp on voicing chords with upper extensions, which is harder to get away with on heavy, high-gain prog/metal material.
Originally Posted by marino
But I would need a virtuoso guitarist to collaborate with for the composing.
Yup, that's definitely the reason my band works.
Any link to this group's music?
EDIT: Found it. Quite groovy and fun indeed! 2thu

Last edited by marino; 04/09/20 01:46 PM.
Re: Is Progressive Rock Keyboard Playing a Priority ?
J. Dan #3037780 04/09/20 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by J. Dead
I love this whole album, but whatever your influences, I don't know how any red blooded, Hammond loving keyboard player can't appreciate this:
< Sons Of Apollo - Psychotic Symphony >
And they don't over do the Drop D and no Cookie Monster vocals....heavy but include all the elements of prog with odd time signatures, intricate solos, nonstandard sing formats, etc.
Thanks to your post last night, I found that song/CD -- and already have it on order. Can't wait.

Old No7

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GregC #3037803 04/09/20 03:06 PM
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I enjoy both playing and listening to classic prog. I think many of the pieces are fun to play and can help build technique.


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Re: Is Progressive Rock Keyboard Playing a Priority ?
marino #3037809 04/09/20 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by marino
Prog/metal bores me a little bit after a while, but it just depends. One of my dreams, which in all likelihood will stay a dream, is to play in a prog/funk project - complex but fun! But I would need a virtuoso guitarist to collaborate with for the composing. I'm sick and tired to write all my music alone, and I already have lots of unpublished projects waiting in line...

Recent experience with that direction. Was approached by an excellent lead guitarist to collaborate with original material . I have +70, mostly copyright. He was a few hundred miles
away so it wasn't a local neighborhood thing.

Got off to a good start with the material. Once I saw the click, I wanted to formalize and improve the communication the old school way, talk on the phone.

Long story short he wanted my keyboard skills and my recording/mixing for backing tracks and free music production.

If he or anyone wanted just that, thats a 'for hire ' contract arrangement.
I suggested , since he only wanted to use my experience, and if he wanted cheap and easy, he could find free midi files. And wail along to those with his lead guitar skill.

Re: Is Progressive Rock Keyboard Playing a Priority ?
GregC #3037828 04/09/20 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by GregC
Originally Posted by marino
Prog/metal bores me a little bit after a while, but it just depends. One of my dreams, which in all likelihood will stay a dream, is to play in a prog/funk project - complex but fun! But I would need a virtuoso guitarist to collaborate with for the composing. I'm sick and tired to write all my music alone, and I already have lots of unpublished projects waiting in line...

Recent experience with that direction. Was approached by an excellent lead guitarist to collaborate with original material . I have +70, mostly copyright. He was a few hundred miles
away so it wasn't a local neighborhood thing.

Got off to a good start with the material. Once I saw the click, I wanted to formalize and improve the communication the old school way, talk on the phone.

Long story short he wanted my keyboard skills and my recording/mixing for backing tracks and free music production.

If he or anyone wanted just that, thats a 'for hire ' contract arrangement.
I suggested , since he only wanted to use my experience, and if he wanted cheap and easy, he could find free midi files. And wail along to those with his lead guitar skill.

Ouch!!

I have already a clear picture... if I should ever meet the right musician to collaborate, I'll make it very clear that I want to share duties and results 50/50.

Re: Is Progressive Rock Keyboard Playing a Priority ?
marino #3037835 04/09/20 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by marino
[q

If he or anyone wanted just that, thats a 'for hire ' contract arrangement.
I suggested , since he only wanted to use my experience, and if he wanted cheap and easy, he could find free midi files. And wail along to those with his lead guitar skill.

Ouch!!

I have already a clear picture... if I should ever meet the right musician to collaborate, I'll make it very clear that I want to share duties and results 50/50.[/quote]

Very good. There are numerous very talented guitarists, etc .

I think long term, and believe its important to establish ' ground rules ' sooner than later.

Keeping it loose and informal has attraction , but ' try as you go ' and ' lets see what happens later ' can result in future misunderstandings.

Re: Is Progressive Rock Keyboard Playing a Priority ?
SamuelBLupowitz #3037838 04/09/20 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by samuelblupowitz
In the world of more contemporary heavy bands with prominent keyboards, Opeth definitely stands out. They're not a band I'm super familiar with (my biggest hard rock/metal period was in high school, and other than a handful of bands I really fell in love with I was more metal-fan-adjacent to my best friend), but they write really cool stuff with prominent Mellotron, Hammond, and Wurlitzer.

[video:youtube]ht3MY[/video]

Thats a good post and solid example.

Steven Wilson has refers to Opeth and follows them.

I think its cool how ideas can cross pollinate

Re: Is Progressive Rock Keyboard Playing a Priority ?
GregC #3037840 04/09/20 05:15 PM
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Problem with prog is there is a line between technical/ interesting and technical/boring. YES=interesting . Other band (that I wont name because someone here likes them) boring. Generally I find practicing progressive music boring so I suppose the end product I would produce would be boring to you.

Re: Is Progressive Rock Keyboard Playing a Priority ?
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Originally Posted by Jr. Deluxe
Problem with prog is there is a line between technical/ interesting and technical/boring. YES=interesting . Other band (that I wont name because someone here likes them) boring. Generally I find practicing progressive music boring so I suppose the end product I would produce would be boring to you.

Yes created unique melodies, rather than just tearing off scales. That, for me, was what made them interesting.

I have been remiss in keeping up with Billy Sheehan and was quite interested to find that Sons Of Apollo billed themselves as prog. Billy Sheehan and prog? Sounds like a good match to me...only...not. I don't hear anything "prog" in SOA's music at all. Metal, yes. Hard rock, yes. You can tick either or both of those boxes quite readily, but prog? I don't hear it. As I mentioned above, it's going to boil down to someone's definition of prog, but still:
1) Complex rhythms? No.
2) Changing rhythms? No.
3) Long compositions? No.
Etc.
Now, I want to make clear that I haven't been through all their stuff, so there may be some things that are more "prog" than I've heard so far. If that's the case, I'll eventually get there, because I like some of what I'm hearing and I'm going to keep listening.

But prog?

I just don't see it. Not in this case...or at least not yet.

So, again, what is prog? Who gets to decide? I see that SOA bills themselves as prog, so in their minds, they're ticking some sort of prog boxes on the imaginary checklist. What are they hearing that I'm not? Or is this just another example of music getting dumped in the prog category because it doesn't fit gracefully anywhere else?

And what's up with the mix? On the tracks I've listened to so far, Billy Sheehan's bass is mixed so low that it's hard to pick out. Lotta guitar, though.

A while back Rolling Stone published a list of the 100 Greatest Prog Albums Of All Time. I took it as an excuse to go wallow in some cool stuff--maybe find something that I'd overlooked. The problem was that at least a third--maybe as much as half--of the list didn't strike me as prog on any level. It was almost as though an editor assigned the story to the reporter with the title already intact and the poor guy ran through all the usual suspects (Yes, ELP, Rush, Genesis, Pink Floyd...) and still had slots to fill in order to make it to one hundred, so he started backfilling with other things.

So, again, what is prog, anyway?

Grey


I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play.
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