ElmerJFudd Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 For quick gigs I use my PC3 and the Voce. I guess I finally will be able to retire the Voce to EBAY. Dave. I believe you have the Gemini rack, ya? Any reason using this would be preferable to your Kurzweil controlling the Gemini? Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delaware Dave Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 Speed. PC3 + Voce/Vent quicker to setup than PC3 + Gemini + Voce MIDI drawbar unit. More unboxings, midi cables, power supplies and when things aren't working more troubleshooting time (the latter almost every gig). Could also eliminate the Vent if I swap the new tabletop for the Voce since the Voce requires a leslie sim, one less thing to hookup. Price is important, might keep the Voce in the mix if the desktop is cost prohibitive. Quote 57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn Delaware Dave Exit93band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 Classic is $2,299 MAP. Desktop is $999 MAP. dB Quote ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChazKeys Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 Speed. PC3 + Voce/Vent quicker to setup than PC3 + Gemini + Voce MIDI drawbar unit. More unboxings, midi cables, power supplies and when things aren't working more troubleshooting time (the latter almost every gig). Could also eliminate the Vent if I swap the new tabletop for the Voce since the Voce requires a leslie sim, one less thing to hookup. Price is important, might keep the Voce in the mix if the desktop is cost prohibitive. But without the Gemini you are going to lose the extra sounds like the EPs. Imagine a Gemini inside the desktop module that would have been incredible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChazKeys Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 Classic is $2,299 MAP. Desktop is $999 MAP. dB The Legend Expander is only about £500 in UK - so the Crumar desktop looks pricey. But the Crumar has the screen plus a few other features. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 What do we have for alternatives to the Mojo drawbar desktop still in production? Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delaware Dave Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 " ..... Desktop is $999 MAP..." Ouch..... The Gemini module is not that much more. That one hurt.... Guess I'll stick with the Voce/Vent. Quote 57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn Delaware Dave Exit93band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 " ..... Desktop is $999 MAP..." Ouch..... The Gemini module is not that much more. That one hurt.... Guess I'll stick with the Voce/Vent. Street price should be like $850 which would be competitive with the Viscount. These will need a shoot out. Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drawback Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 At first glance I"d be more inclined to go with a D9X + B-3X iOS. Quote ____________________________________ Rod Here for the gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Coda Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 What do we have for alternatives to the Mojo drawbar desktop still in production? THIS But I also know,- for the latest HX3 expander,- there´s a new drawbar-controller unit in the pipeline, which according to keyboardpartner "leaves nothing to be desired". My last contact is about 3 weeks ago and now I´m waiting every day because when I asked for estimated release date, they said "rather in 4 weeks" I´d appreciate a HX3.5 expander w/ such a remote-controller since the "old" one was discontinued because of not covering all the new features HX3.5 offers. A.C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricBarker Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 Interesting. I'm glad they're finally bringing the dual manual up to spec with the Mojo61. As a 61 owner, there are a few things I find myself drooling over (besides the second man), however, it's not really a leapfrog, for the most part this is a dual-61 with a few curious design decisions, some positive, some negative. On the positive: FINALLY they've replaced the dumb Vib/Chorus button with a nob. I'm not a big V/C user, but this design made positively no sense to me. The new buttons are snazzy, I was not a fan of the black INVISIBLE Prophet buttons with LEDs. These feel much more like a traditional organ, and they're far more visible. On the negative: gone are the nice chicken-head nobs for Volume/Drive. Those were the best controls on the unit, and I was hoping for some mini chicken-head nobs for the smaller controls, oh well. Also, the "shift" button looks to be in a far more awkward spot than it is on the 61. I'm not a huge fan of doubling-up controls, however, the SHIFT button becomes super easy to do one-handed over on the far right. Missed opportunity is, they should just have more single-function controls overall. The dedicated "Percussion Level" nob is an interesting choice, but I'd be tempted to play with it too much I think. One of the few things I wish the Mojo had was a couple user-definable nobs for things like EPiano tremolo speed or delay time. I would rather have those on the hood than Perc Vol. And TBH, I don't really mess with the Click volume much either. If space was a concern, I could think of some other functions that would make more sense than having those up front, but just MHO. Light-up logo on the front... LAME. Very lame. I hope it can be disabled. Quote Puck Funk! Equipment: Laptop running lots of nerdy software, some keyboards, noise makersâ¦yada yada yadaâ¦maybe a cat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodshedjones Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 Sorry if missing something here. So the new classic is based on the same internal architecture as the Mojo 61? The mojo 61 has is able to store some very good additional sounds. Does anyone know if this new Classic has any of the extra voices present in the Mojo 61? Rhodes, wurli, clavinet etc? Seems a bit cruel to bring out a new model then reduce the features. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamuelBLupowitz Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 One of the few things I wish the Mojo had was a couple user-definable nobs for things like EPiano tremolo speed or delay time. I would rather have those on the hood than Perc Vol.User-definable knobs are a cool idea; I've taken advantage of it a bit on my XT with a USB midi controller and the MIDI-learn feature. I'm wondering if this Mojo will have all of the additional instruments of the 61; it feels like it would be a missed opportunity not to... but we'll see re: multitimbrality and flexibility. I know the 61-plus-lower-manual can't play organ and another sound simultaneously; the older dual-manuals, of course, can do that, but it's famously inflexible as far as which piano and which organ goes on which manual. I've found the built-in Rhodes useful for rehearsal, but if I'm playing a gig where the Mojo is my main keyboard, it's a Mainstage controller for everything other than organ.TBH, I don't really mess with the Click volume much either.It's funny how tricky it is to market features towards such a specific, idiosyncratic market (gigging Hammond players who crave authenticity, at least for certain features). I actually mess with the click volume a fair amount -- not as much as drive or reverb, but I tend to like a LOT of click, and every now and then I find myself playing a ballad and it's too much. Light-up logo on the front... LAME. Very lame. I hope it can be disabled.I'm finding I like goofy light-up nonsense more than most. I mean, I bought a LUMI, what does THAT tell you? Quote Samuel B. Lupowitz Musician. Songwriter. Food Enthusiast. Bad Pun Aficionado. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delaware Dave Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 What are the advantages of this over a Mojo 61 + a separate lower manual purchase, other than the separate drawbars for lower and pedal? neither have an 11 pin however the 61 has the extra voices. For flexibility purposes I'd go with the 61 and separate lower manual and use the lower manual when necessary and leave it home when unnecessary. For a classic rock gig where you need a basic piano, EP's, Clav and organ you could get by with the 61 (although 61 keys are limited for piano) whereas the new dual is just an organ (w/ no 11 pin). Separately, I do like the drawbar controller and have been waiting for him to roll one out so that I can retire the Voce but, geez, the price is up there .... Quote 57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn Delaware Dave Exit93band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jyrkik Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 In the connection panel there seems to be a jack for a sustain pedal.. I wonder what this is for if there are no extra voices..? Jyrki Quote Nord Stage 3 88, Prophet 6, Moog Voyager OS, Moog Little Phatty TE, Crumar Mojo Classic Suitacase, Kawai US-50 upright, Beltuna Studio 3 and Fantini cassotto accordions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 In the connection panel there seems to be a jack for a sustain pedal.. I wonder what this is for if there are no extra voices..? Rotary speed, I would guess. dB Quote ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adan Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 I assume the Classic is aimed at the "real organ players" market -- the folks who want a familiar physical setup that facilitates muscle memory when reaching for controls. If you were going to make the Classic dual timbral, there would have to be additional physical controls (as opposed to doubling functions as the Mojo 61 does) and maybe additional DSP power(?). They have to stay price competitive with the Legend. It's pretty easy to use software for extra sounds. There's some cost associated with it, but there would also be cost associated with a dual timbral hardware set up. The most annoying part of it for me is having a separate set of stereo outs. I use an SS3 so separate outs means a mixer. I would like to see a dual timbral version of the Mojo 61, but I think it's not in the cards. Quote Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro Home: Vintage Vibe 64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 TBH, I don't really mess with the Click volume much either.It's funny how tricky it is to market features towards such a specific, idiosyncratic market (gigging Hammond players who crave authenticity, at least for certain features). I actually mess with the click volume a fair amount -- not as much as drive or reverb, but I tend to like a LOT of click, and every now and then I find myself playing a ballad and it's too much. OTOH, on the real thing, click on a given unit is what it is, you can't vary it. On any clone I've played, I've always settled on an amount and left it there. But yeah, I can see where someone might want to be able to vary it. What are the advantages of this over a Mojo 61 + a separate lower manual purchase, other than the separate drawbars for lower and pedal? I guess aesthetics, and ergonomically being able to get the two manuals just a bit closer to each other (as they "should" be). Also maybe this will be cheaper than the combination of a 61 and lower manual unit? Quote Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 Crumar infoms me that they are planning an introductory special on the desktop - $899 MAP. dB Quote ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delaware Dave Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 Crumar infoms me that they are planning an introductory special on the desktop - $899 MAP.dB A MAP price is a minimum amount that resellers agree not to advertise below. For example, if a backpack company sets a MAP price of $50 for its best selling item then all resellers including brick and mortar stores and Amazon resellers are obligated to advertise this product at $50 or more. I was hoping from $999 (original price) that there would be a discount (like 15%) so that the market price would be $850. Since this doesn't appear to be the case then $899 is the minimum introductory price to be expected and then the minimum price would move essentially to $1000. Quote 57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn Delaware Dave Exit93band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigJPatton Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 The Classic certainly looks great, and the flat top has me considering trading up, the top controls is the only thing I don't like about my Mojo. But being slightly bigger and heavier will probably stay my hand, not looking to carry more Mojo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lee Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 I might be in the market for a dual manual organ soon (once I"ve sold some stuff) so the Classic could be a key contender for me. I don"t see the lack of extra voices as a great loss though. I had a Mojo 61 for a while and whilst the Rhodes was nice, I prefer a Wurli, as it tends to cut better with loud guitars and drums. I wasn"t convinced by the Crumar Wurli sound though, it felt a bit plasticky to me and I just think samples capture the attack of a Wurli much better. Quote Nord Electro 6D 61, Wurlitzer EP200A, Neo Mini Vent, EV ZLX12P, QSC CP8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 Crumar infoms me that they are planning an introductory special on the desktop - $899 MAP.dB A MAP price is a minimum amount that resellers agree not to advertise below. For example, if a backpack company sets a MAP price of $50 for its best selling item then all resellers including brick and mortar stores and Amazon resellers are obligated to advertise this product at $50 or more. "Obligated" is an odd term. I'm way familiar with the concept of MAP, as well as the arguments in favor and against it and a decent amount of the legal aspects. I can easily do a fifteen minute rant on the subject. My least favorite thing is that (in my experience) most consumers look at MAP the way they used to look at MSRP - as the price where they start looking to get a better deal. To be clear, MAP is not like what some manufacturers call Unilateral Pricing Policy, where the dealers have to agree to sell the product for a certain price before they can carry the product. MAP is not terribly easy to enforce...UPP is easier, believe it or not. I was hoping from $999 (original price) that there would be a discount (like 15%) so that the market price would be $850. See? Perfect illustration of what I said above. You see MAP as the place where the discounting starts...when, in fact, MAP is a discounted price from the $1049 MSRP, and the $899 intro price actually does have a 15% discount.from MSRP, though not from the (already discounted) MAP. Since this doesn't appear to be the case then $899 is the minimum introductory price to be expected and then the minimum price would move essentially to $1000. Minimum ADVERTISED price, yes. Dealers can sell it for whatever they want, of course. dB Quote ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricBarker Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 Light-up logo on the front... LAME. Very lame. I hope it can be disabled.I'm finding I like goofy light-up nonsense more than most. I mean, I bought a LUMI, what does THAT tell you? Burn the Witch! (lol) Huge Roli endorser, but was unimpressed with the Lumi. But I'm pretty flamboyant so I get it's appeal. I was mostly upset that they chose to go with a small-scale key size, and then had the gaul to create an informercial by a "professional music psychologist" claiming that it was a scientifically superior key size than a piano keyboard. That was NOT cool. I wrote them a letter about it. Otherwise, neat little unit. Pretty much the only option for a travel keyboard as you can build it in sections. If it had full scale keys, I'd get 4 of them and it would be a fantastic flight board! Don't get me wrong, I'm all about the glitz. I decked out my keyboard and keytar with LED light strips for a while. I just find a front-facing logo distracting. I'd rather have it on the back! It's hard for me to imagine they won't include the same sounds as the Mojo61. For their ease of software coding, it just makes sense. With this revision they can use the same software as the Mojo61. They can probably even put it in the same firmware package. That simplifies the software end of things GREATLY. I'm hoping that this benefits us 61 owners with some nice new software updates. Maybe a better Acoustic Piano (hope hope hope)? Quote Puck Funk! Equipment: Laptop running lots of nerdy software, some keyboards, noise makersâ¦yada yada yadaâ¦maybe a cat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalman Stern Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 Is the Mojo XT sticking around or is this a replacement? Other than the Leslie connection, is there anything else missing on the Classic? Was holding out on getting the XT to wait for the DSP based replacement, but initial impressions are not quite making it for me... What does one use for keybeds on the desktop unit? Is it mostly for people who don't care about dual manual with organ feel? -Z- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffincltnc Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 So it's a Viscount Legend Live with the Crumar organ, minus the additional drawbars of the Legend and the leslie output connector. Quote Yamaha U1 Upright, Roland Fantom 8, Nord Stage 4 HA73, Nord Wave 2, Korg Nautilus 73, Viscount Legend Live, Lots of Mainstage/VST Libraries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stokely Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 Sorry if missing something here. So the new classic is based on the same internal architecture as the Mojo 61? The mojo 61 has is able to store some very good additional sounds. Does anyone know if this new Classic has any of the extra voices present in the Mojo 61? Rhodes, wurli, clavinet etc? Seems a bit cruel to bring out a new model then reduce the features. Yes, I'm wondering the same thing. Removing those voices would probably take this off the table for me, or at least would have me strongly considering the Legend module since it's cheaper for just organ. Not optimistic since the desktop ONLY mentions organ, while the other Mojos prominently mention the other sounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adan Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 So it's a Viscount Legend Live with the Crumar organ, minus the additional drawbars of the Legend and the leslie output connector. Key action is a consideration. Viscount is considerably stiffer, to the point where some people just don't like it. Crumar much easier to play and closer to the feel of a real Hammond. If you need a Leslie connector or like having extra drawbars, then I could see choosing the Viscount despite the stiffer action (which reportedly loosens up a bit over time). Since I don't need those things, the better action would tilt the comparison strongly towards Crumar. I see no evidence that the Crumar Classic or Deskstop has extra voices. The Desktop, from the looks of it, should be able to switch through snapshots from the editor, so you can switch models without an outboard editor. That would have been a nice feature on the Classic but doesn't seem to be there. Quote Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro Home: Vintage Vibe 64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delaware Dave Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 Guido mentioned on another forum that the 11 pin is available as an accessory, so he does have a solution. I guess he's thinking along the lines of a real hammond where if you want a leslie connected you need a leslie connection box. His accessory is his version of the leslie connection box. Quote 57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn Delaware Dave Exit93band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Muscara Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 Guido mentioned on another forum that the 11 pin is available as an accessory, so he does have a solution. I guess he's thinking along the lines of a real hammond where if you want a leslie connected you need a leslie connection box. His accessory is his version of the leslie connection box. He posted about this box on the Crumar FB page today. https://www.facebook.com/instruments.crumar/posts/1269700049890481 Quote "I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck "The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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