Asia: the kind of band I would have liked to have had

[llatham]

Not a big Asia fan and not all that familiar with their records, but I have to HIGHLY disagree about the bass PLAYER. John Wetton is one of the greats. I'd probably pick him over Greg Lake if you put a gun to my head and were comparing KingCrimson bassists.

 

Yeah, I'm talking about with Asia - remember, initially I said I hadn't even every heard any UK (or King Crimson). The UK track someone posted in this thread is really the first I've ever listened to.

 

Now, I'd still pick him over Greg Lake easily. But again, I know an entire album of Asia songs and only 3 songs by ELP :-)

 

It's funny again - and maybe this is a US - UK perspective difference. Carl Palmer was a name as was Howe and they were both in bands that got significant airplay in the states, but UK - again, never heard of 'em, and haven't ever really heard anything by them. So Wetton was the "least known" as far as I was concerned.

 

I suppose unless you were into the whole Crimson side of things or in the UK maybe, he was a nobody from a nobody band!

 

Downes kind of was too but his name seemed to get tossed around in connection with Jethro Tull and The Buggles (see I didn't know Trevor Horn was in Yes for a time as well - but that was the US "dark period").

 

But I do love that bass tone and I do love his voice.

 

He always sounds like he's straining, but not straining on those higher notes. It gives it an energy without sounding like screaming. He also has a really beautiful voice and tone in his lower range.

 

In fact as soon as I listened to that UK track above, it was his voice that made it feel "comfortable" to me.

 

[llatham]

Asia keys were limited and could have been covered by a single keyboard. If Downes toured with all that in Asia is was just showing off.

 

Bro, do you even Keyboard :-D

 

Ok, first, I'd just say that AT THAT TIME everything couldn't be covered by any one single keyboard. And there is Piano and Hammond (or Organ) on the album. Nothing could really cover that at the time in the Studio.

 

TODAY, yeah you could easily cover it with one keyboard.

 

But lest we forget, while he may have been showing off to some degree, in 1982-ish keyboards didn't have the kind of memory and programmability they have today and splitting and layering was not as advanced. Some keyboards weren't necessarily even Multi-Timbral or meeting GM requirements. And he still may have wanted the Piano and Organ on tour.

 

And I think any of us covering this would probably need either at least 2 manuals, or 2 players in the band due to many of the overdubs (to do it like the studio).

 

Saying that kind of stuff on a keyboard forum is just asking for trouble :-)

 

But I agree it's not like there's 500 different sounds on there.

 

But realistically, he probably would have needed at least 3 with a lot of switching (not counting Piano and Organ unless the not-so-accurate synth versions would have been passable).

 

[Moonglow]

I"m trying to remember if Asia was the first band that was called a 'supergroup'?

 

I was fortunate to have seen the original lineup, I think it was around 2010. Carl Palmer impressed me the most, followed by Steve Howe. Didn"t care for a lot the sounds Geoff Downes was using (e.g., piano, organ), I think he using a nearly all-Roland rig at that time. He appeared to be sort of going through the motions.

[EricBarker]

It is kind of amazing between mid-80s and now what are the keyboard requirements for moderately-complex material. Up until a few years ago, I was a single 88key +laptop guy. I did a lot of fairly complex progmetal with 10+ patches, multiple splits and performance switches per song. With a little pre-setup and split configuring, I could handle pretty much any part on the planet. But this would have been impossible back in the day. There were no splits, and patch switching took a moment to engage. For many boards it was cumbersome and took a few button presses to get to a particular sound unless you carefully arranged your banks. Most of the biggies from the 80s also came from the 60s-70s, where there were no presets, so they had developed workflows with one-keyboard-per sound. Once you get a large enough array, then you start running into issues with hand placement, so then you have to add MORE boards to allow for being physically in a different spot. You see Wakeman do this a lot in 80s videos, he had many redundant boards in case he was at the other end of his array. It was kind of ridiculous. And it's a good thing that era is behind us. But it would be ignorant to suggest that they were doing it just for show. You see live clips, they use those boards!

 

Now, I'm a 2-3 board guy. Main 88key controller, Organ, and Seaboard Rise. I've switched many of my lead parts over to the Seaboard, both for convenience and because I love playing it. But I keep them all vertically racked (Rise sits on top of the organ), once you have multiple racks, you run into hand crossing issues, not to mention it takes up a lot more space. My goal is to never use more than one stand for a live show.

[GRollins]

I"m trying to remember if Asia was the first band that was called a 'supergroup'?

 

That would be Cream, back in the '60s.

 

Grey

 

[Moonglow]

I"m trying to remember if Asia was the first band that was called a 'supergroup'?

 

That would be Cream, back in the '60s.

 

Grey

Well, only off by a couple of decades! Thanks, GR.

[Konnector]

Asia.....I remember when I first heard they were forming that band. Such potential there. Being a big ELP, Yes and UK fan I was hoping for something really good.

 

Boy was I wrong. Now granted, their intention right from the beginning was to write radio friendly rock and make $$$, so kudos to them for succeeding in a big way.

 

It was not what I wanted to hear coming from a lineup like that though. Big disappointment for me. (flame suit on!)

 

[llatham]

Asia.....I remember when I first heard they were forming that band. Such potential there. Being a big ELP, Yes and UK fan I was hoping for something really good.

 

Boy was I wrong. Now granted, their intention right from the beginning was to write radio friendly rock and make $$$, so kudos to them for succeeding in a big way.

 

It was not what I wanted to hear coming from a lineup like that though. Big disappointment for me. (flame suit on!)

 

I won't flame you, and I can see your point.

 

I think most supergroup lineups like this are doomed to prejudices - I mean I would think most of them do a project like this to do something DIFFERENT than what they usually do, but we usually expect UK meets Tull meets Yes meets ELP and we get something not quite that or any of those.

 

But in this case I don't see that as a bad thing. Now, at my age, this was really a starting point for me, so I didn't go in with that foreknowledge.

 

Still, I think, it's also unfair to compare things like that (though human nature).

 

So it try to take it on its own merits. I find this album very meritable :-)

[Iconoclast]

My Asia story is so similar. I was an enormous ELP and Yes fan so I had heard in advance that this super group was forming. I loved what Downes had done on Drama. I worshipped Kieth Emerson.

 

I actually skipped school the day the record was released, I clearly remember walking into the record store and seeing that Roger Dean cover and thinking it was going to be awesome. I was a little surprised that there were already hundreds of them laid out in special displays for sale. I mean...usually the stuff I dug was a little more of a selective audience. Shoulda been my first clue.

 

Then on first listen at home, I actually hated about 75% of it. It seemed like they weren't even trying to challenge the listener. I put the record away and thought that it would go down in history as a an epic flop.

 

Imagine my horror when within just a few weeks it was no-shit popular and even the high school cheerleaders were into it. That was the worst of all. Seriously never gave a crap for most of that stuff. And the songs I did like were not the ones that got pushed by the radio stations.

 

Anyway, I leave you with this Asia reference:[video:youtube]

[Konnector]

Asia.....I remember when I first heard they were forming that band. Such potential there. Being a big ELP, Yes and UK fan I was hoping for something really good.

 

Boy was I wrong. Now granted, their intention right from the beginning was to write radio friendly rock and make $$$, so kudos to them for succeeding in a big way.

 

It was not what I wanted to hear coming from a lineup like that though. Big disappointment for me. (flame suit on!)

 

I won't flame you, and I can see your point.

 

I think most supergroup lineups like this are doomed to prejudices - I mean I would think most of them do a project like this to do something DIFFERENT than what they usually do, but we usually expect UK meets Tull meets Yes meets ELP and we get something not quite that or any of those.

 

But in this case I don't see that as a bad thing. Now, at my age, this was really a starting point for me, so I didn't go in with that foreknowledge.

 

Still, I think, it's also unfair to compare things like that (though human nature).

 

So it try to take it on its own merits. I find this album very meritable :-)

 

Well, It wasn't a "bad thing" as far as them losing their prog roots and jumping on the corporate rock wagon. (which was a "thing" around that time.) It was a very good move on their part. Not being a fan of that style of commercial rock, their songs hit me like a wet noodle. I gave their first album a chance. I borrowed it from a friend for a couple of days and was thankful I didn't rush out to buy it without a listen first.....and they all had a very successful go with it without me on board!

 

 

[EricBarker]

Yeah. Being a lot younger, I got into prog in the late 90s though the progmetal wave. Became a huge Yes fan, Genesis, King Crimson, etc. There was this used music store that i used to haunt down the street made out of an ATCO unit, wall to wall CDs and vinyl. The owner knew my taste, and he was bit of a proghead himself, so he kept his eye out for records that would come through. He passed me the first Asia album, but didn't tell me much other than it was a super group of Howe and Downes. I remember him kind of awkwardly trying to hint about it not being what I'd expect. I'd heard "Heat of the Moment" and the usual, but I gave it a spin. ONCE. It didn't have any emotional impact on me one way or the other. I wasn't invested in it like Iconoclast's story here, it was some group of prog musicians from yesteryear that had a half-hearted commercial project. By my time that was sort of expected.

[Motif88]

It"s all over the original U.K. album. Listen to tune I linked to - Nevermore, particularly from 3:20 - 4:30...

[GRollins]

As far as supergroup busts go, my biggest regret is that XYZ didn't work out. Jimmy Page on guitar and Chris Squire on bass? Now, that might have been worth a listen. They pulled in Alan White for drums and Dave Lawson for keys. Page tried to interest Robert Plant in taking up vocal duties, but Plant wasn't interested (Squire was singing at that point). Bummer.

 

If you hunt around, you can find some loose recordings that they did. It's been a while since I listened to it, but I recall the songs as being rough. They hadn't found common ground yet and it sounded like they were in different spaces creatively. Would it have worked, given more time? Could it have worked? We'll never know. But still, if I couldn't have Led Zeppelin or Yes, I'd definitely be interested in seeing what would happen if you put parts of both groups together.

 

Grey

[Konnector]

I heard some of those XYZ demos quite awhile ago. Yes, they were "rough" as you say. Not sure if it would've worked. Don't recall anything awe inspiring. Page wasn't a progger by trade, although Archilles Last Stand and Four sticks were worthy of that banner. (Seems that Four Sticks isn't all that popular with a lot of people, but I love that song.)

[KuruPrionz]

 

So when Asia came to town, I went!!!! I will admit to having VERY high expectations.

 

You know I talk to a lot of people like you and it's very fascinating to me.

 

I'll admit, there's a difference in seeing a band live versus their record.

 

I'm totally the opposite of "you people" :-). Live shows always suck sound wise. I learned this when I was a kid. I always have low expectations going in :-)

 

And some bands just shouldn't even be seen in video or live format :-) But I don't fault bands for not having "stage presence", especially the more technical bands.

 

I NEVER make judgement calls on live shows. The album is the "permanent record" for me.

 

I stopped going to concerts years ago because of ridiculously stupid prices (with "convenience" and "parking" fees tacked on) for bands that just didn't put on good live shows (through no fault of their own) and/or who just sound terrible (through no fault of their own, or, sometimes it is their fault).

 

It's interesting how many people are so all about the live show though. Just not me.

 

 

 

We are all different.

 

When I was 6, Mom took us to see Carlos Montoya at the concert hall. That changed what I felt about music in a profound way.

 

When I was 7, Mom took us to see Artur Rubenstein. That changed the way I felt about music in a profound way. Both of those events still affect me.

 

My favorite records from that time were a Roger Miler album with lots of songs that were hits on the radio, a Chet Atkins album, Meet The Beatles and England's Newest Hit Makers The Rolling Stones.

 

Those were and are influential but compared to seeing and hearing somebody play the way Carlos and Artur played they simply were not in the same league.

 

Then we saw Joan Baez lead several thousand people in singing We Shall Overcome at a concert. Just her and an acoustic guitar. Another "wow" moment.

 

My first concert going out on my own (well, with my older brother) was at 13 years old, the Grateful Dead with Pigpen headlined. I saw too many rock acts to mention, some stand out. There have been some great albums that really reached me too. Miles Davis Bitches Brew for one and Duke Ellington with His All Star Band recorded Live in 1962 were/are still huge in my book. So is The Band by The Band.

 

The Who on the Tommy tour.

 

Taj Mahal opening for Loggins and Messina solo with a banjo and getting 7,000 people to stand up, boogie, clap their hands and yell "Shake It On Down".

 

Rory Gallagher opening for Fleetwood Mac and Deep Purple. He put a tweed Fender Twin on a folding chair, plugged the most beat up Strat I've ever seen into it and ate EVERYBODY'S lunch. If I was Ritchie Blackmore I would have been afraid to follow that, maybe he was. And Ritchie is a great guitarist by any standard.

 

There are more...

 

Records simply cannot get a huge crowd into another state of being like a great live show can. I guess there are probably some who sit there bored through such things and just remember that the sound was not "perfect". I'm ok with that, we are all different. I like what I like, everybody else can like what they like.

 

Having seen 3 of 4 members of Asia in other bands and more than holding their ends up, I expected an incredible show. Music is Art, Art is the creation and release of tension.

 

With the notable exception of Carl Palmer, Asia did not do either of those things. It was an bland, unintersting and frustrating concert. So, maybe the records are much better than the band live.

I don't care, there's too much music out there for me to take the chance that they might be pretty OK instead of bland and uninteresting.

 

I have no idea who "you people" are. You've never met me. It doesn't seem like you know who "you people" are either. Cheers, Kuru

 

[psionic11]

Wow, too much in this thread to go through at once...

 

But I'm glad Asia is front and center... esp ironic since I just spent the last couple days refreshing my memory on what Asia songs I know.

 

I used to have that blue Asia sheet music book, can't find it anymore.

 

So I look up Amazon, Reverb, YT.. anything that has it... and there are hardly any, except for one at over $200!!!

 

I miss and wish that style of rock keyboard would come back... Asia, Styx, Night Ranger, Loverboy, Cars, Van Halen, Triumph, synth Rush...

 

...heck, even the hair metal bands like Dio, Giuffria, Ozzy, Autograph, Queen,..

 

There's gotta be some use for all this analog revival synth, right?

[Mitch Towne]

I will never miss an opportunity to evangelize for "Drama." It is the blueprint for both Asia and for 90125. It is the great underrated Yes album.