Korg Module Scarbee EP-88M and Neo Soul Keys Studio 2

[jejefunkyman]

Hi All, firstly I hope you and your relatives are doing fine and are still healthy.

I like very much the Scarbee EP-88M available in Korg Module and I"m using it a lot for recordings. But I"m also annoyed that Korg has still not implemented Auv3, so that I can record a part in Midi within Cubasis or Auria, and then tweak the sound to fit to the particular track I"m working on.

The Neo Soul Keys Studio 2 app offers this possibility, but though I"ve seen several people here praising it, I"ve not be able yet to build a preset which fully satisfies me, so that I could use it instead of the Scarbee.

I find the available sounds either too dark or too low, or with too much tines so that it sounds too bright. I"ve been trying during the two last days to go through all the samples and presets, and to tweak them with all the available parameters and effects, but with no success!! And this drives me a bit mad, I must say...

I would like a sound which comes close to the Scarbee, with just similar bass and tines level, but I"m starting to think it"s not possible. And maybe this is how it should be, as I now realize every single electric piano has a different sound (I"m sorry if this sounds dumb but I only played one real Fender Rhodes piano in my life, all the rest was clone or software instrument). So is there here a Neo Soul Keys Studio 2 Jedi who could help me to build a Scarbee sound within the app, or is this just a stupid idea and I should completely forget it and use the Neo Soul Keys Studio app for what it is???

Thanks in advance for any help to get away from what starts to look like an unhealthy obsession ð

[drawback]

Adan and I were contributing to another thread where we both discussed our satisfaction with what we are able to design using Neo Soul Keys Studio 2. The interface is somewhat perplexing but once you get the hang of it, the editing is very deep, using a combination of basic sounds as building blocks.

 

I've made some screen shots of my edits but don't have a site to host them. If you or anyone else out there would like me to share them with you, drop me a PM anytime and I'll be happy to email them to you. Lots of time on our hands lately!

[jejefunkyman]

Hi Drawback and thank you very much for the proposal! I"ll PM my email immediately. As you said, I"m somehow perplex in front of all the parameters and available samples, and I"m surely not used to spend time tweaking an app to get what I want. So your help will be greatly appreciated ð Maybe there will be a way to exchange user presets in a future update, that would be a nice feature to implement...

[Morizzle]

I've made some screen shots of my edits but don't have a site to host them. If you or anyone else out there would like me to share them with you, drop me a PM anytime and I'll be happy to email them to you. Lots of time on our hands lately!

 

Hey drawback, with the new nifty forum software you can attach pictures to your posts! When you switch to the full reply screen, there's an "Attachment Manager" at the bottom of the page

[Adan]

To be honest I've been liking some of the presets so much, I haven't done a lot of deep editing. A Jedi I am not. I've played around with the synthesizer part of it to conclude that, between that and the ability to build layers, anyone should be able to create their perfect rhodes.

 

It's a somewhat quirky unpolished app, but right now it's my favorite source for EP sounds. I'm only on Ipad, so not comparing it to higher end products.

 

I like Scarbee on Module, but it can't match the ability to, for instance, chain several effects and map any parameter, and you can't roll your own rhodes on it.

[drawback]

Hey drawback, with the new nifty forum software you can attach pictures to your posts! When you switch to the full reply screen, there's an "Attachment Manager" at the bottom of the page

 

I was wondering about that... anyway, now I've made a set as a relatively small PDF so probably cool just to email them out.

[jejefunkyman]

Well today, I used my Vox Continental keyboard together with the app, and the sound is much better, now really close to the EP sound I have in my mind. Even when testing different presets, the playing experience stays very satisfying and one can hear clearly the different characters of the different keyboard samples and how they are tweaked, while still sounding like a real EP. The app reacts very well to the velocity information sent by the Vox. Whereas with the SV1 I was using until now, it"s different, I get a lower level than when playing with the Vox. This is kind of annoying, because if I would use the app for a live setup, I would rather play with the SV1 than with the Vox. I saw also some videos of people playing the app with what seems to be a weighted keyboard (for example the Montage) and the sound is also good. This is actually what pushed me to switch to the Vox, to see if I could get a better sound with another keyboard.

As a bonus, the app is even reacting to the Vox"s Dynamics and Valve drive knobs" which is kinda cool. So now, I don"t know if there is way to change a setting in the app or in the SV1 to get the right sound level from the app. I tried to use the different SV1"s velocity curves, but it didn"t really change anything. On the Korg Module app, I don"t have such an issue. Any idea from the community ð¤??

[Reezekeys]

The app reacts very well to the velocity information sent by the Vox, and I think it"s the reason why it sounds much better. Whereas with the SV1 I was using until now, there is very few change of sound when I"m playing soft or heavy. This is kind of annoying, because if I would use the app for a live setup, I would rather play with the SV1 than with the Vox.

 

I might be a bit of an egghead when it comes to solving problems like this, but I would connect both keyboards to a midi monitor app, start playing, and look at the velocity values being received. It would be instructive to connect & monitor both keyboards at the same time. Play with your normal dynamics on each one in turn, and look at the velocity values. Without looking at every single value received, you'll probably see that one of the keyboards tends to produce higher or lower values than the other. Some of this is dependent on the curve settings, of course, so you can mess with those. However there is a second setting that some keyboards have which biases the overall sensitivity to your playing dynamics. On my Roland controller, in addition to four velocity curves there are three dynamics settings ("light", "medium" and "heavy") that adjust the overall sensitivity for a total of 12 settings. I did a quick check of the SV1 manual and it doesn't have dynamic sensitivity settings, only curves.

[jejefunkyman]

Yes after further check, I think it"s a matter of sound level. Looks like with the Vox, you get a slightly higher level than with the SV1, without changing the tonal character of the sound, like when you"re pressing really hard on the keys. Which makes the app much better. With the different SV1 velocity curves, you don"t get a higher sound level but you just come faster to the highest velocity level which generates a change of sound. Damn, this makes me again a bitty crazy ð±ð± But it should probably not. The solution is maybe simple: just use the Vox with the app, and that"s it ð¤ªð¤ª The Vox has also 9 velocity curves plus the Dynamic knob, so more possibilities than the SV1, which has only 8 velocity curves. This probably explains the difference...

[Jinkings]

You can also play with the velocity curve on the app (Neo Soul Keys)

[Adan]

Glad you're finding more joy, Jeje. Your original post had me nonplussed, as it was hard to imagine not being able to create a great rhodes sound with Neo Soul. The app sounds great played from my Mojo 61. The Mojo has great EPs as well, but Neo Soul just has more . . .uh . . what's the word? Oh yeah, mojo!

 

My main frustration with Neo Soul Keys Studio 2 is its instability when used with other iPad apps. Running two or more at the same time will inevitably cause Neo Soul to crash or just go haywire at some point, and it can mess with the other apps as well. My impression is that this problem is not exclusive to Neo Soul, it's a more general multiple app problem for iPads. But Neo Soul seems more problematic than others. I have a Mini 5. At the end of the day it's not a huge problem for me, just an annoying inconvenience.

[AnotherScott]

As a bonus, the app is even reacting to the Vox"s Dynamics and Valve drive knobs" which is kinda cool.

I suspect you're hearing the Vox's own EP sounds and not (or in addition to) the ones from the app. I can't see any way the valve drive could possibly affect anything other than the board's internal sounds.

[jejefunkyman]

You"re right, I may have had at some point the Vox"s volume knob up. But, I just tried again with the volume knob down and I can confirm that the app is sensitive to the Dynamic knob. But looks like it"s not sensitive to the Valve drive knob. And I also confirm the good sound and playability when using the Vox.

[jejefunkyman]

Glad you're finding more joy, Jeje. Your original post had me nonplussed, as it was hard to imagine not being able to create a great rhodes sound with Neo Soul. The app sounds great played from my Mojo 61. The Mojo has great EPs as well, but Neo Soul just has more . . .uh . . what's the word? Oh yeah, mojo!

 

Yes Adan, I was also really annoyed not being able to get the best out of it, despite all the praise it has received. But it looks like the combination with the SV1 is not working so well for this app...

[Fleer]

Vox Continental rules!

[drawback]

Just bumping this thread â there's been an update to Neo-Soul Keys Studio 2. The last three points address all the core issues/wishes I've had (that I can think of).

 

Apr 25, 2020

 

Version 2.1.5

 

- We added the iPhone version to be included in the binary so that the app is now universal and is iPhone compatible.

 

- We updated the ability to MIDI Learn Mute/Solo and On/Off switches in the FX Rack

 

- We fixed the bug where the sample rate was not saved properly

 

- MIDI Learn now can be applied globally and retains the settings with new presets and when restarting the app.

[Adan]

Just bumping this thread â there's been an update to Neo-Soul Keys Studio 2. The last three points address all the core issues/wishes I've had (that I can think of).

 

Apr 25, 2020

 

Version 2.1.5

 

- We added the iPhone version to be included in the binary so that the app is now universal and is iPhone compatible.

 

- We updated the ability to MIDI Learn Mute/Solo and On/Off switches in the FX Rack

 

- We fixed the bug where the sample rate was not saved properly

 

- MIDI Learn now can be applied globally and retains the settings with new presets and when restarting the app.

 

 

Outstanding! So glad to have this on my phone now!

 

The global midi learn should be a nice time saver.

[jejefunkyman]

It"s good that there is now an iphone version. Unfortunately, on my side, I spent a lot of time tweaking the sounds in many different ways, but I could never get fully satisfied with it. I think I simply don"t like the timbers of the base samples, and no tweaking will be able to correct this feeling. So I"ve decided that I will get back using Korg Module from now on. Looks like Korg has hooked my ears to their EP sounds ð It"s kinda frustrating though due to the lack of Auv3 implementation. Recording in Cubasis with Inter-app by sending Midi notes to Module is not so practical and not working 100% right. Still hoping for the Auv3 feature in Module but there is absolutely no sign that Korg is working on it at the moment, which drives me a bit mad ð¤ But let"s see...

[drawback]

Loading multiple apps in AUM or Camelot can cause sample rate mismatches. It's frustrating when reloading a crashed app that doesn't save cc's. Control change messages can be saved per app settings within AUM's MIDI control to avoid this, but saving them within the app itself is far more useful and intuitive. Now, there should be fewer crashes forthcoming due to stable bitrate. This is a decent upgrade â very well thought out and addressing user issues.

 

Regarding the base tones â Jamal prefers the dirtier, quirkier, noisier anomalies all right! You're not going to get the Scarbee bell and sparklier (is that a word?) tone very easily, if at all.

[SamuelBLupowitz]

Regarding the base tones â Jamal prefers the dirtier, quirkier, noisier anomalies all right! You're not going to get the Scarbee bell and sparklier (is that a word?) tone very easily, if at all.

Sounds like I'm going to have to finally give this app a try!

[jejefunkyman]

The world is divided in two categories: people who like clean and bright EP sounds and people who like dark and dirty EP sounds ðððð

[Adan]

 

Regarding the base tones â Jamal prefers the dirtier, quirkier, noisier anomalies all right! You're not going to get the Scarbee bell and sparklier (is that a word?) tone very easily, if at all.

 

Yeah, that sums it up. Scarbee is really good, I have no problem playing it for hours, and relative to Neo Soul it will probably stands a better chance of sitting in any given mix. But compared to Neo Soul it sounds idealized and sanitized. Neo Soul samples sound like the instruments that were actually sampled. Listened to by themselves, I find Neo Soul more inspiring. I haven't used Neo Soul in a band context, so it remains to be seen whether the idiosyncracies I like so much in isolation retain their charm.

[jejefunkyman]

Yes that"s a bit my problem I think: I never spent time with real EPs to hear what they actually sound like dry and with effects, to have my own opinion. My reference is really the SV1 EP 1 (the one going through the amp) which I"ve been using for 10 years now, and which is rather on the bright side, as well as the Vox Tine EP. Also I"m having in my mind the EP sound I hear from Herbie Hancock in his funky electric period and other similar type of 70´s music in a band context, where I guess the EP sound had to be brighten up to stand out of the mix. So I"m hooked to a very particular tone, I recognize it. The problem is that I could not get it with NSK2 even when trying to tweak it. I get it with almost no effort with Korg Module, even with the base EP sound, which is by the way very similar to the Vox Conti Tine EP. Sorry to annoy you with this, I feel a bit like a freak now ð±ð±

[BenWaB3]

Don't feel like a freak, jejefunkyman. I agree with your assessment. I'm trying to get NSK2 to sound the way I want it to as well & come up short also. I can get close on the "thunk" type of sound, like Stevie's Sunshine Of My Life & Herbie's Fat Albert Rotunda days but getting that CTI Rhodes sound from the 70's hasn't happened. My main strategy is to just use one sample & try to tweak the hell out of it. Using 2 or more base sounds gets a bit of unwanted phasing since they aren't perfectly in tune with each other. Also having a problem getting a clav sound I really like too. I haven't broken down & gotten the Korg Module since it "doesn't play well with others", i.e., no Auv3 implementation.

[jejefunkyman]

Thanks to share my view, I feel less lonely ðð Yes, that Fat Albert Rotunda sound is exactly what I"m after. Or the Gene Harris sound on his « As » cover. There are thousands of examples in the 70"s funk, jazz and soul catalog ð I also had this phasing issue with NSK2 when layering sounds. For Module, I"m recording through Inter-app, which means you have to record right or do multiple takes until it gets right. Well on the other hand, it forces me to play accurate, without relying on a Midi file to correct the wrong notes. This can also be good thing, don"t you think ð??

[Josh Paxton]

When it comes to EP tones, I'm a simple man, and there are really only two that I want out of life: the "What'd I Say" Wurli and the Richard Tee phased Rhodes. The number of boards and sample sets I've gone through and the amount of tweaking I've done just to try to approximate those two is kind of staggering. If anyone's got a lead on which platform can deliver just those two sounds in unassailable perfection so that I can then never have to think about EP sounds again, I would be so happy.

[Adan]

Never heard the Gene Harris "As" cover before. Very cool.

 

If I was trying to get close to that compressed Rhodes sound, I'd just use Scarbee rather than tweaking Neo Soul. And it's a logical choice because I suspect Scarbee will better punch through an extremely busy mix like that.

[Jazz+]

It's a coincidence that yesterday I spent a long time playing Korg Module on my 2018 iPad Pro in Airplane Mode with plenty of free hard drive space, using a camera connector, and my Casio CT-X700 as a MIDI controller. My Casio CT-X700 has a good quick response when playing its own internal Piano, Rhodes, Vibes, and Organ patches. I usually practice alternating between these four good internal sounds with a split bass while I watch TV series ("Homeland" lately)... Anyways, I LOVE the sound of Scarbee Clean Rhodes. Thus I once again auditioned it on my Korg Module all day and it felt okay playing solo, very laid back behind the beat groove feeling, nice. But then I put on a cooking play-along track with Ron Carter on bass and Grady Tate on drums that I normally practice with and I couldn't do it with my Korg Module Scarbee Rhodes. The latency suddenly so disturbed my concentration that I simply couldn't function normally, I couldn't help being distracted by that tiny latency that made me feel out of place. The Ivory piano was even more delayed feeling. So, as much as I LOVE the Scarbee Rhodes, I still prefer playing the inferior intrenal sounds in my Casio CT-X700 because they let me function in the moment. The internal sounds are actually pretty good if you choose carefully and they respond quickly. Anyways, I wish Scarbee Rhodes would be implemented inside an actual keyboard so it doesn't have as much latency as it does running on an IPad Pro. Call me crazy, but I would by a portable keyboard (under 30 lbs) with only one internal sound if it was the actual Scarbee Clean Rhodes.

[jejefunkyman]

@Josh: sorry I can"t help you as I"m not chasing this kind of sound...ð¤

 

@Adan: one of my favorite track indeed ð

 

@Jazz+: I"m sorry to hear this. Looks like latency is something as subjective and personal as the EP tone ðð But I don"t think the Scarbee will be implemented in an actual keyboard, as it is rather meant to be a software instrument. Did you write to Korg about this latency issue? Well I don"t expect any good answer from them, but who knows?