Jacob Collier does M. Jackson

[DaveMcM]

If this has been posted in the past, my apologies. I though it was pretty cool doing the looping thing with just a piano with a player system. And his playing and arrangement is very good.

 

[video:youtube]

[Reezekeys]

I love it, but I know exactly how this thread is gonna go.

 

"He's very talented, BUT...." (insert: "I don't get any emotion from it", "he needs to grow up and experience life more", "complexity for the sake of complexity", "he's a showoff"), yada yada.

 

Did I miss any? I'm sure I'll find out soon.

 

Meanwhile, check this out, I thought it was pretty cool:

 

[video:youtube]

[Bucktunes]

Yeah, this guy is insanely musical. I used to think I understood modern harmony pretty well, but this guy takes it completely into the stratosphere! Good to see someone from his generation with so much useful musicality. Hopefully he'll inspire many more.

[Bucktunes]

And it's even more humbling to know that he was doing stuff like this 7 years ago!

 

[video:youtube]

[Reezekeys]

Oh man, there are so many examples we could be posting. The one that really killed me was his bossa nova - done with the Portuguese singer Maro. It's called "Lua." According to his youtube description he wrote the string intro and arrangement for the rest of the song on the day of the session. I'm no expert on classical composition but this stuff is so far above my pay grade it's just silly: https://youtu.be/4PIMR_oGRcU. As someone who's spent a lot of time listening to the classic braz stuff in this genre, this track warms my heart.

 

He also does live youtube streams where he dissects his songs and screen shares his Logic sessions. It's pretty funny to hear someone say "this wasn't a particularly large project, only 240 tracks." There's discussion of the plugins he likes and how he uses them â stuff I think many here would find interesting. He recently did a live stream where he composed and produced a track from scratch. He seems like a genuinely nice kid and very humble too.

 

Of course there's his use of "half" keys and how he modulates between them. I'll probably never do anything like this but find it very interesting. He's basically a jazz/pop guy with a keen grasp of classical music, including contemporary styles and techniques â and he's figured out a way to blend them into a cohesive and personal style of music making.

 

And for those who criticize what they see as overly technical or flashy stuff, there are the vids of "Here Comes the Sun" and Stevie Wonder's "As", and a few other slow ballads where it's just him on a piano, or with a singer like Becca Stevens. Too much to go into, and yea, I guess you could call me a fanboy. Can't help it â with all the stupid 2-chord vamp stuff that constitutes current pop music it's heartwarming to see someone like JC getting the attention and accolades â especially since many of his fans are young.

 

If you really want to get your mind messed up, check out the June Lee trancriptions of his stuff. And this kid is what, 25 years old? I love it.

[cedar]

I've seen many of his videos. Needless to say, his talent is awesome.

 

I would be curious, though, to see him play in a traditional jazz trio or quartet setting, particularly with musicians that allow ample stretching. I'm sure he would be amazing in that setting also, but I would like to hear him in that context.

[Joe Muscara]

I've seen many of his videos. Needless to say, his talent is awesome.

 

I would be curious, though, to see him play in a traditional jazz trio or quartet setting, particularly with musicians that allow ample stretching. I'm sure he would be amazing in that setting also, but I would like to hear him in that context.

If he could sit down a sec.

 

(I"m not ragging on his talent, just making a joke about his 'hyperactivity' if you"ve ever seen his live clips.)

[Reezekeys]

I've seen many of his videos. Needless to say, his talent is awesome.

 

I would be curious, though, to see him play in a traditional jazz trio or quartet setting, particularly with musicians that allow ample stretching. I'm sure he would be amazing in that setting also, but I would like to hear him in that context.

 

If you're talking about him playing bebop, can't help you. But this looks like the closest to what you might be asking for. Very very Herbie-ish... but man these guys are hitting it: (BTW he was 20 years old here)

 

[video:youtube]

 

I was thinking this would be a cool tune to play. Then I saw the transcription. Sure, I'll do it - just give me a few years to practice!

 

[video:youtube]

[jazzpiano88]

Stepping up to the Reeze plate:

 

I had to stop when he started singing.

 

For me, flaws in vocal control or instrument technique can be made up for with a perfect soulfulness or inspiration that actually feed off those imperfections (think Miles or Leon Russell).

It's funny how it doesn't work the other way around (for me, at least).

[woodtus]

This one is nice ... great rhythm section as well

 

[video:youtube]

[Reezekeys]

Woodtus, I prefer the rehearsal version I posted earlier, but this one is good too â although the mix is very bottom heavy. The rehearsal version sound a little more energetic and free-flowing to me.

 

Stepping up to the Reeze plate:

 

I had to stop when he started singing.

 

For me, flaws in vocal control or instrument technique can be made up for with a perfect soulfulness or inspiration that actually feed off those imperfections (think Miles or Leon Russell).

It's funny how it doesn't work the other way around (for me, at least).

 

I have to admit I was initially put off by JC's vocal sound. It seemed strange to me at first. Here's a guy that looks like he's twelve years old, with a baritone singing voice that he uses in falsetto most of the time. There was a disconnect there, and it kept me from getting deeper into his music, which was my loss! He definitely doesn't have the typical r&b crooner or powerful rock vocal sound. But â it's his sound, and you could say it's as original as his music! Speaking for myself, it feels wrong to cancel on a guy like that because he doesn't meet my expectations of what a "good" vocal sound should be, especially given all the other things he's a killer talent at. I'm the one that needed to change my expectations, and I did. I still like listening to Luther and Stevie and Marvin, Leon Russell, Billie Holiday, Willie Nelson, etc. Jacob's got soul too â just his own kind! IMO.

 

[video:youtube]

[16251]

The music is great. Don't dig the pants.

[Reezekeys]

Yea, his fashion sense is like his voice â different!

[EscapeRocks]

I love his take on this. His playing is brilliant.

 

I absolutely do NOT enjoy his singing. It is the only thing that makes me check out of his videos.

 

Again, I could listen to his piano playing all day. He has way more chops than I have, It's not even the baritone voice, it's that, true or not, he always sounds flat. At least the way my ears perceive it.

[Reezekeys]

I'm no authority on how individual human brains process pitch information but I'm pretty sure "correct" pitch is a quantifiable thing, so either he sings flat or he doesn't sing flat â it shouldn't be a matter of how an individual ear "perceives" it. I see you hedged a bit there with "true or not"... well, in reality, it's not! I know, you (and many others) can't stand his singing. I've been there.

[MathOfInsects]

I'm no authority on how individual human brains process pitch information but I'm pretty sure "correct" pitch is a quantifiable thing, so either he sings flat or he doesn't sing flat â it shouldn't be a matter of how an individual ear "perceives" it. I see you hedged a bit there with "true or not"... well, in reality, it's not! I know, you (and many others) can't stand his singing. I've been there.

It's definitely not quantifiable in the absolute sense, but as someone who also doesn't like his voice, I think that "flat" element that David refers to in this case has to do with breath control and dynamics. If anything, I think he's actually amazingly accurate in his sense of pitch-exactness. But without breath support his singing hits me as thin--or what you might call "flat" in the dynamic sense. Colorless.

 

But on the flip side: damn. The guy's a genius, straight up. Funny that he was known as an actor for all those early years, while toting around that massive carnival-train of musical talent.

[woodtus]

I'm no authority on how individual human brains process pitch information but I'm pretty sure "correct" pitch is a quantifiable thing, so either he sings flat or he doesn't sing flat â it shouldn't be a matter of how an individual ear "perceives" it.

 

 

If only it were so simple. Jacob does use a lot of microtones, just tuning and alternative pitch centres.

Very few singers have control of microtones in the way Jacob has, probably largely due to his operatic upbringing.

If you are interested in Jacobs approach here is an introduction â¦

 

[video:youtube]

[elif]

I'm no authority on how individual human brains process pitch information but I'm pretty sure "correct" pitch is a quantifiable thing, so either he sings flat or he doesn't sing flat â it shouldn't be a matter of how an individual ear "perceives" it. I see you hedged a bit there with "true or not"... well, in reality, it's not! I know, you (and many others) can't stand his singing. I've been there.

The correct pitch can be quantified, but is that with just or equal temperament? Stretch tuning? I was once took part in a study whose aim was to measure pitch perception in a group of amateur musicians. It was probably fifty years ago but IIRC the results were a bell curve around each pitch.

 

As I have aged, my pitch perception of bass pitches has changed. If a single note is played, I perceive it as flatter than it actually is until another note is played along with it. Then it's, "Oh. Yeah that does sound right." Actually, I may have perceived them this way all along. It is only within the last few years that I noticed it.

 

Regarding JC's singing, The ones I have heard sounded okay to my ear, except maybe the one with Take 6. Except for that one, they have all been either post-produced or are using some live processing, including harmonization.

[marczellm]

Help me figure out the chords for the C section in the original MJ tune?

 

Bm D

D F#sus9

F#sus9 G#m7?

? ? ?

[Reezekeys]

Regarding JC's singing, The ones I have heard sounded okay to my ear, except maybe the one with Take 6. Except for that one, they have all been either post-produced or are using some live processing, including harmonization.

 

Are you talking about the Tavis Smiley show, where they're all live? I think it's obvious his produced stuff is tuned where needed. The vocal arrangements are off the charts complex, with many clustery voicings that seem â to me â incredibly difficult for even the best singers to pull off in a live setting. To get as close as those guys do is quite an accomplishment, and for anybody to knock them for not being "perfect" is unwarranted, in my opinion.

 

And what about the fact that someone had to come up with the arrangement in the first place?! Have you heard any of his "IHarmU" videos?

 

[edit - Bradley, I'm definitely not singling you out with my "anybody to knock them for not being perfect" comment! I'm just exasperated with so much of the criticism I see leveled against the guy.]

[synthdogg]

Okay, I must admit that I've become a huge JC fanboy over the past year. Dude is absolutely brilliant, and I would even advise checking out some of his Logic track deconstruction videos where he takes an hour or 2 and talks through how he produces some of his songs. No need to imbed it here, but check this out when you get a chance,

and check out his story about 4:00 in about procrastinating on deciding what song he should arrange until 8 HOURS before his flight leaves for the orchestra recording session!!!!

 

I totally understand the the comments about Jacob's voice, I had the same reaction initially...but it's kind of grown on me over time. It doesn't help that he loves playing "soulful" music, and just doesn't have an innate "soulful" voice. But when he hits his sweet he's absolutely magical....I love the Mahogany video posted above. My favorite stuff of his, and when I really started to become a huge fan, is when he's got another singer taking the lead and he does EVERYTHING else. His voice absolutely kills when he's backing up. "Feel" from his last album is a good example, and his sense of rhythm laying back on this track is amazing.

 

[video:youtube]

 

Or with Becca Stevens doing Stevie's "As"....this is absolutely beautiful

 

[video:youtube]

 

Really, he is something special.

[MAJUSCULE]

I'll say this: regardless of how you feel about his voice, the fact that someone with that much talent remains humble and down-to-earth, clearly creating music from a place of joy and gratitude is amazing. Can't admire his attitude enough.

[MathOfInsects]

Help me figure out the chords for the C section in the original MJ tune?

 

Bm D

D F#sus9

F#sus9 G#m7?

? ? ?

Do you mean all the sus's? I always play it as Bm D/E | D/E E/F# | E/F# B2*/G# | walk-up to B (Maj)

 

* I hear this chord as B-C#-D#-F# over G#. You could also call it G#m7 add4 or anything else that hits all those. But this is just what I play, not sure where it lands in the world of accuracy.

[jazzpiano88]

I'm just exasperated with so much of the criticism I see leveled against the guy.]

Clearly he has all of the technical talent to astound and amaze. But I don't think he has the depth to change the course of, or even make a significant permanent contribution to music.

So the "criticism" is more of a lament that a guy with so much technical and theoretical talent and ability will be relegated to clever microtonal musical pyrotechnics rather than having serious impact during his wheelhouse years.

[Reezekeys]

Wow, well here we go again â just where I expected this thread to go. I've seen this mindset before, where "technical talent" is considered inversely proportional to "depth", "soulfulness", etc. etc. BTW who's claiming the guy is trying to "change the course" of music"? That's a lot to hang on someone, I think.

 

If you think all he's about are "clever microtonal musical pyrotechnics", it's fairly obvious you haven't heard much of his work, or even what's been posted in this thread. (BTW I very much admire his "microtonal pyrotechnics"!)

[jazzpiano88]

I'm not claiming that he's trying to change the course of music. Quite the opposite.

I'm lamenting that someone with that huge talent is focused on stuff like the Flintstones theme, when he *could* be doing more serious things worthy of his talent.

I've seen a lot of glimmers genius compositions in his analysis related videos, but it seems to not be much of his focus. Maybe its a marketing thing which I could understand

-- they wanted TOP to play disco,

[synthdogg]

I'm just exasperated with so much of the criticism I see leveled against the guy.]

Clearly he has all of the technical talent to astound and amaze. But I don't think he has the depth to change the course of, or even make a significant permanent contribution to music.

So the "criticism" is more of a lament that a guy with so much technical and theoretical talent and ability will be relegated to clever microtonal musical pyrotechnics rather than having serious impact during his wheelhouse years.

 

Well, I disagree for sure. I'm curious how much of his music you've really listened to to make this assessment. Even if you stick to just the examples in this thread you'll find a some very deep musical contributions, and he's doing tons more than that on a consistent basis. I think relegating this guy to "technical talent" is seriously undervaluing what he brings to the table.......and, of course that is just my opinion.

[stoken6]

Do you mean all the sus's? I always play it as Bm D/E | D/E E/F# | E/F# B2*/G# | walk-up to B (Maj)

 

* I hear this chord as B-C#-D#-F# over G#. You could also call it G#m7 add4 or anything else that hits all those. But this is just what I play, not sure where it lands in the world of accuracy.

 

I play: B D/E | D/E E/F# | E/F# F#/G# | f# a b (unison notes)

 

So I hear that * chord as F#/G#, otherwise same as you. It's a clever arrangement of parallel rising suspended-dominant chords (Major Triad over the 2nd degree), but the voice-leading makes the top line descend.

- B is voiced d#-f#-b (bottom to top)

- D/E is voiced d-f#-a over E

- E/F# is voiced B-e-g# over F#

- F#/G# is voiced A#-c#-f# over G#

 

I've attached what I hear in notation.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[synthdogg]

Do you mean all the sus's? I always play it as Bm D/E | D/E E/F# | E/F# B2*/G# | walk-up to B (Maj)

 

* I hear this chord as B-C#-D#-F# over G#. You could also call it G#m7 add4 or anything else that hits all those. But this is just what I play, not sure where it lands in the world of accuracy.

 

I play: B D/E | D/E E/F# | E/F# F#/G# | f# a b (unison notes)

 

So I hear that * chord as F#/G#, otherwise same as you. It's a clever arrangement of parallel rising suspended-dominant chords (Major Triad over the 2nd degree), but the voice-leading makes the top line descend.

- B is voiced d#-f#-b (bottom to top)

- D/E is voiced d-f#-a over E

- E/F# is voiced B-e-g# over F#

- F#/G# is voiced A#-c#-f# over G#

 

I've attached what I hear in notation.

 

Cheers, Mike.

 

Taking a big left turn in this thread.....I can't find the video now, but there is a great interview with greg phillinganes where he talks about writing that section of the song, and that he originally received writing credit on the song. Unfortunately, at the end of the day it looked like MJ wanted to keep all writing credit and decided that Greg's contribution was really just arranging. So close....

[Reezekeys]

Probably this one. I listened to it a while ago, it's great except licensing issues made them cut out all the musical examples he was talking about!

 

[video:youtube]