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Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3058668 08/17/20 07:19 AM
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There was venue attrition long before the virus hit. I trace a lot of it back to the idiotic, Draconian anti-drug legislation that held club owners responsible if someone did something like smoke a joint in a club. Essentially, the club owners were judged equally guilty as the person doing the "crime." It killed the DJ scene, made sure EDM would never take off and thus hobbled its growth here (and deprived the music industry of a bunch of income), and put a nail in the coffin of the remaining rock clubs.

Only the biggest stars will make any money from streaming. That's okay, only the biggest stars used to make money from records, so nothing's changed in that respect. What has changed is there's no infrastructure for developing talent. It's as if someone went to major league baseball and said "okay, no farm clubs, no minor leagues, no triple A ball. Either players make the majors on their first try, or they can deliver food for GrubHub."

Unfortunately, I think the days of bands having an infrastructure to develop are gone. Now your only real shot is getting a huge following on social media, and hoping that someone notices...and hoping that somehow, people place value on intellectual property. Don't hold your breath. The internet has reached the Gresham's Law phase.

There will be festivals when the virus is over, but again, that's not an infrastructure. People don't want to take the time and trouble to go see live music, what with traffic, parking, getting the tickets in the first place, sketchy sound systems, etc. They'd rather sit at home, watch Netflix, and have their brains atrophy.

I was fortunate enough to have a wonderful live performance career for many years. Then I'd had enough, and it was time to progress to the studio. Now you can't play live and the studios are going away. The only constant is change. Curiously, though, I'm not unhappy at all. I've never had more fun making music in my entire life. The album I'm working on now is IMHO the best work I've done. I've made my choice regarding the music business...I chose "music" over "business," and don't regret that decision at all.

Last edited by Anderton; 08/17/20 07:25 AM.
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Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3058684 08/17/20 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Anderton
<...snip...>.I chose "music" over "business," and don't regret that decision at all.
If I had to do it all over again, I'd still choose to be a musician. I'm having a good life. I tried being a wage-slave to some faceless corporation twice to see what being 'normal' was all about. Normal is fine for most people, but for me it was terribly overrated. I wake up in the morning, go to bed at night, and in between do what I want to do.

Most career musicians that I know are glad they made that choice.

IMO after COVID is under control, and people aren't afraid to go out anymore, many will want to go out and here live music again. I get personal e-mails from many of our audience members asking us to make sure to let them know as soon as we are gigging again. This is hopeful.

I've also read reports published in journals like The Lancet, Nature and JAMA that seem hopeful that people who get COVID and eventually a working virus (if developed) do get antibodies for COVID and their T and B cells are primed to create the same specific antibodies if an infection should reoccur. This was done on other primates and "test tube" tests, so it's not 100%, but more likely than not.

And on the climate crisis, you can believe 99% of the peer-reviewed, published climate scientists or you can believe an oil baron, a study that oil baron financed, real-estate salesman, a self-appointed preacher, a "news" pundit, a conspiracy theorist, a politician financed (read: bribed) by the oil/gas/coal industry, or the bot on social media. It's your choice. I choose to believe the scientists that are published in respected scientific journals and are peer reviewed by other respected scientists.

Most of us have children and/or grandchildren. What kind of a world are leaving them?

And relating to the topic of COVID, since most confirmed cases of COVID were contacted indoors, it seems to me this plague wouldn't be nearly as severe if we just opened our windows. But that's just my opinion.

Insights and incites by Notes


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Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3058685 08/17/20 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Anderton
Ther


Unfortunately, I think the days of bands having an infrastructure to develop are gone. Now your only real shot is getting a huge following on social media, and hoping that someone notices...and hoping that somehow, people place value on intellectual property. Don't hold your breath. The internet has reached the Gresham's Law phase.

Tall.

lets define Huge, today.

15 million listeners, fans on Soundcloud, YT, and a proportion on social media

Next year that 'huge ' might double

Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3058999 08/20/20 03:28 AM
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So I was happy to hear some good news about the virus on a right-wing talk radio show (I listen to everything because I don't trust anything). It noted that new cases in Florida were way down. Great!! Maybe I can finally go to Stuart and pick up some stuff from storage. Good news!

But then I remembered not to trust anyone, so I checked the number of daily tests. The slope for daily tests was the same as the slope for new cases. In other words, tests had dropped at almost exactly the same rate as new cases.

Maybe new cases are down, so there's no need to test so much. Or maybe if you don't test people, you won't find positive cases.

Regardless, it's like we're flying a 747, and both the radar and radio are out. We have no idea where we're flying, how much fuel is left, or for that matter, which way is north.

This is truly absurd. At this point, I've lost all hope that the pandemic will be treated as a medical issue.

Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3059007 08/20/20 10:35 AM
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Maybe this will make you feel better, Craig. Turns out, the immune response to the virus is fairly predictable.

What the immune response to the coronavirus says about the prospects for a vaccine (Nature.com)

"Viral immunologists say that results so far have been predictable — here’s why that’s good news."


The great thing about music is that there's always something to learn. The frustrating thing about music is that there's always something to learn!
Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3059034 08/20/20 01:46 PM
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@ Craig Remember, "our" governor fired the woman who was telling the truth about the number of virus cases and deaths because she refused to lie, minimizing the numbers. The governor also did his best to reduce the number of tests because the high numbers of positives were hurting his reputation (which is obviously more important than the lives of his constituents). That doesn't mean the numbers haven't gone down, but as you are already aware, there is no way to really know anymore.

After this COVID thing is over, if you have a chance to come to Stuart, let me know, and perhaps we can have lunch together. Stuart is definitely less than a half hour away. Until then we are being "safer at home" and saving money since there are no gigs.

@ Joe Muscara, as soon as the vaccine is "beta tested" by the first responders, I'll get in line. I figure if it is very likely to be safe and effective, the health care, other essential workers, and the wealthy will get it first. If it is risky, the poorest people will get it first. Either way, I won't have a chance to be a beta tester and that's probably a good thing.

Insights and incites by Notes.


Bob "Notes" Norton
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Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Notes_Norton #3059091 08/20/20 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Notes_Norton
And on the climate crisis, you can believe 99% of the peer-reviewed, published climate scientists or you can believe an oil baron, a study that oil baron financed, real-estate salesman, a self-appointed preacher, a "news" pundit, a conspiracy theorist, a politician financed (read: bribed) by the oil/gas/coal industry, or the bot on social media. It's your choice. I choose to believe the scientists that are published in respected scientific journals and are peer reviewed by other respected scientists.
There are thousands of peer reviewed scientists on both sides of the issue, and as to the charlatans, they exist on both sides as well...Al Gore, David Suzuki, Michael Mann, Greta Thunberg, etc. Big Green and Big Government also have far more money than Big Oil could ever hope to have and 100% of they only pay one side of the "debate". Is is a bribe to only fund those who agree with you? Respected scientists have lost their well paid government jobs for daring to ask uncomfortable questions.

I won't comment any further on the issue other than to say that any science that claims "the science is settled" or that fires people who disagree with the narrative isn't a science. If climate change is really a serious issue then a full uncensored debate should be welcomed and all points of view considered. That isn't happening.

Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
PrairieGuy #3059095 08/20/20 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by PrairieGuy
I won't comment any further on the issue other than to say that any science that claims "the science is settled" or that fires people who disagree with the narrative isn't a science. If climate change is really a serious issue then a full uncensored debate should be welcomed and all points of view considered. That isn't happening.

Unfortunately, there's is no parallel "earth control group" that we can use to do an objective comparison. Also, any speculation on either side as to where the earth will be in 100 years is based on an incomplete data set. For example, the assumption was that warmer oceans would lead to more intense hurricanes. This was followed by a period of very low hurricane activity, because no one anticipated that warmer temperatures would bring the jet stream further south, which sheared off the top of the hurricanes so they couldn't develop. Now, it seems that ocean temperatures have increased enough to overcome the shearing to some extent, but no one knows for sure.

At this point as far as I can tell, the debate isn't whether the globe is getting warmer. Although we don't have an "earth control group," we can compare current average temperatures to historical records, and based on that yardstick, it's undeniable that overall temperatures are increasing (this would be consistent with the observation that CO2 traps heat). However, it seems to me the debate is between those who believe that the temperature change is caused primarily by human activity, vs. those who think that other factors far outweigh the contribution by humans. The latter cites that historically speaking, the earth has gone through multiple periods of heating and cooling. That is also undeniable.

Personally, I think John McCain had the best answer: minimize the human contribution to greenhouse gases as much as is reasonable. Then check back in a couple decades and see it's either slowed or reversed the temperature increase. If so, that would imply humans can influence the course of global temperature change. If human activity is the problem, then we can do something to fix it and should pursue a solution more aggressively. If it's not the problem, there's no real harm in having less CO2 anyway. I call it the "can't hurt, could help" solution. smile

Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3059143 08/20/20 09:58 PM
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Yes, totally agree with that phrase "as much as is reasonable."

Craig I really didn't want to do this in response to the posts above but since you responded, here it is.

Who doesn't want to try to save the planet if it needs saving? I'll agree it probably does because to me the science is undeniable that humans had a hand in this since the Industrial Revolution. I've done a lot of reading and watching shows about this from both sides perspective and I think that thesis is solid. Similar to all the stuff we have access to about COVID, most right wingers have been wrong from Trump on down as to how to handle it and it's the same with climate change. At first I would watch some pretty convincing YT vids saying humans had little to do with it but point by point they've been proven incorrect by pretty good science. What's not proven is the result of all this warming and that's the other side of this coin. Scientists have painted a pretty dire picture. It is totally true that there is not overwhelming consensus on this. Just last year over 300 climate scientists wrote a paper refuting a lot of those claims and sent it out where it was completely ignored. Whether those worst case predictions come true or not is way above my pay grade and I'll submit it's the same with everyone here. This is where the distinction is made between calling someone a climate denier when they think as I do. Yes, there is global warming and humans had a part in it but no, we really can't do all that much about it in the near future. That does not make me and others like me a denier. I rank it as a real concern and we should continue on the path of reducing our carbon footprint but "as much as is reasonable".

The problem right now concerning the "Green New Deal" is we're just not there yet technologically speaking. I'm all for alternative energy sources, electric vehicles, etc but we cannot completely gut the economy to "try" to get there with very unproven tech. We need almost Star Trek level stuff whether it's brand new battery tech that's like 1,000% more efficient than Tesla's best or "Mr. Fusion" the mythical power plant in a suitcase or whatever. I have watched many videos about battery storage for wind and solar plus other possibilities for that. Right now it's all smoke and mirrors. Yeah, maybe, yeah, maybe, blah, blah. Not yet but it's coming. OK when? We need to make huge decisions involving billions of dollars NOW. It's just not there and meanwhile we have to deal with the here and now and here's an example of that. I can't find the link from a few days ago but here's a summary:

It was a presser with Gov Newsom of California about all the wildfires and especially the rolling blackouts that began because of the current heat wave hitting the West. Basically what he said is alternative energy is not enough to fix this. A few years ago Gov Brown signed into law a bill that mandates Ca to be completely off fossil fuels and be run 100% on renewables by 2030. Total fantasy and Newsom admitted it. It's in the late afternoon into the evening when people are coming home from work that demand peaks and it's exactly that time when solar shuts down. Same with wind and and he even talked about how no wind was greatly helping with the fire fighting but it kills wind generation and that is the reason for the rolling blackouts. Ca has plenty of wind and solar but it's not reliable when you need it the most. There are several huge conventional power plants that have been shut down and some were demolished and a few can be reopened. The Diablo Canyon nuclear plant was shut down several years ago too. Nothing wrong with it, it's simply that it's nuclear power and that's a political no-no. Could we use the power that can generate right now?. Bet your ass we could but the climate change activists won't have it. The two original founders of Greenpeace came out several years ago saying nuclear power was the best way out of this and even they were ignored by the mainstream press and the idiot activists and consequently by everybody on the left.

This is such a huge subject, I can't possibly make all the points that should be made so all I can say is ripping everything apart and trying to switch over in just a few years is madness. Trump definitely has a problem with communicating complex subjects but he's right on one thing. The US simply cannot ruin the economy by shutting down all the oil production, the natural gas production, outlawing gasoline powered vehicles, aviation fueled aircraft, shutting down all fossil fueled power plants etc, etc. These activists have seen too many syfy movies. The Green New Deal was basically just endorsed on national television and I urge everyone to actually read what it says. I think they actually believe all this stuff is really doable right now. We're far from that.

One last important point. They want to ban burning wood as fuel too. I agree that is some of the worst air pollution there is. However billions of indigenous peoples all over the world from Africa to Asia to S. America and rural India and China have been burning wood to live since the invention of fire. They have almost zero access to any kind of power. If they can't burn wood for heat and cooking then what? All these remote villages are going to given solar generators and batteries in when, just a few years? These people advocating stuff like this have no clue at all.

The scientists have given us a pretty hard goal they say must be met and fairly soon or we're all screwed. That could be true or not but it doesn't matter. The world can't do it anyway so we'll just deal with the consequences as it happens, if it happens.

Bob


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Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Jazzmammal #3059150 08/20/20 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Jazzmammal
One last important point. They want to ban burning wood as fuel too.

then that would eliminate forest fires, which would be good, however not doable


that was then and this is now
Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3059160 08/20/20 10:44 PM
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My reply was kind of meant to be a "well here we are" so we could move back to COVID-19 and how it affects our ability to do live music etc. However your points are well taken, intelligent, and I agree that the technology is not available yet to lead our present lifestyle (or close to it) without fossil fuels.

Any solution will have to be multi-faceted. It's not a question of stopping fossil fuels, it's a question of weaning ourselves off of them. In a way, we've already started. I saw my electric bill go down dramatically after switching over to LED lights. It took energy to manufacturer those, but they have a very long life. There's also less landfill compared to tossing out incandescent lights every year or so.

If more people work from home and there's less commuting, there will be less pollution, less use of fossil fuels, etc. It's impractical to have electric cars for long drives, but a simple electric car would work for 90% of the driving I do. I'm not totally convinced that battery manufacturing is that wonderful, and the electricity has to come from somewhere, but there are probably ways to make "lite" cars that take care of most people's needs and would have less of an environmental impact. Vespas, anyone? LOL

But also there's my comment about leading our present lifestyle. I bet setting my AC to 81 degrees has saved a lot of energy, and frankly, it really hasn't made a significant difference in my quality of life. If anything, it seems healthier not to have AC running all the time. I think if we all just made a concerted effort to avoid wasting energy, that would buy us enough time to bring the technology up to speed for what's needed. Some of this could require an investment/jobs/infrastructure investment that politicians love to talk about so much. For example, if railroads actually worked, they're a much more efficient way to get large amounts of heavy goods from point A to point B, compared to trucks. They couldn't handle everything, but if we use the right tool for the right job, that's not a bad idea.

The bottom line is that everyone wants a simple solution - "We'll just go green!" on one side, and "There's nothing to worry about, keep consuming!" on the other. There is no simple solution, but there are incremental solutions that will add up over time.

Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3059170 08/20/20 11:42 PM
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It seems to me, that if the earth is warming, and even if there is only a 50% chance that humans are accelerating it, to err on the side of caution would be the prudent thing to do. True the earth has gone through changes but the extreme rate of change without a natural disaster is unprecedented.

We put surge protectors on our gear when there is only a minuscule chance our power line will get hit by lightning. We put spare tires under our cars when the tires hardly ever go flat anymore. We buy fire insurance when the chance of our house burning up is extremely low (unless we live in a fire prone area). There are quite a few things much less probable than our contributing to the climate crisis that we protect ourselves from. However, the climate thing, like wearing masks has become a political "us or them" issue, and when that happens, all rational behavior goes out the window.

I think we should take up John McCain's challenge.

Notes


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Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3059172 08/21/20 12:11 AM
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And let's leave it at that..."can't hurt, could help"...

...providing rational steps are taken by rational human beings.

I realize that's asking a lot smile

Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3059183 08/21/20 02:09 AM
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Haha, yeah, no kidding.

Just finished watching Cramer's Mad Money and he talked about Salesforce sending out a directive to all their employee's that something like 90% are to continue to work from home until July of next year. if you don't know they are just another internet company worth 188 billion with 50,000 employees. That's a mere pittance compared to Tesla or Apple that just hit a valuation of two TRILLON today. That's a big indicator this crisis is a long ways from being over and the economy will have a long way to go to get back to normal as well and it's yet another indicator of the disconnect between stocks and the regular economy. Tech, work from home plays and internet sales are booming while lots of other sectors are still hurting. 1.1 million filed for UI yesterday up from "only" a million last week. The normal average is in the 150,000 to 200,000 range. There was a headline yesterday that Manhattan offices are only seeing 8% of the normal number of workers. Everybody else is working from home so as you can imagine NYC is really hurting financially right now. Practically nothing is open because few people are there to patronize any businesses. No Broadway, no movies, no clubs, no music, no bagel or hot dog sidewalk vendors. This is serious folks.

We are in the middle of an economic revolution with basically no plan at all. It looks like working from home is doing quite well and it may be permanent so less traffic, less pollution would be a good thing. But look at the other side. All the billions being spent right now and has been spent on mass transit. In LA they're in the middle of digging a new subway. What's going to happen there? We could be looking at a paradigm shift in how this country lives and works with profound consequences. Remember the frog in a slowly boiling pot of water? This is happening all around us and we truly can't see the forrest for the trees. In New York and San Francisco people can't even book a moving company right now. Rents are falling, people who can do remote work are leaving for more affordable areas with a lot more space for a lot less money. Is this temporary or a major change? If even half the people working from home continue to do so after the crisis is over that's huge. Small businesses are dying on the vine especially our favorite venues for gigging which as Craig pointed out were already going away years before this started.

I really can't even make a guess any more as to when we may be gigging again. I bought a used Mojo 61 with the lower manual late February I think, did two gigs with it before all this happened. I'm wondering when I'll get to gig with it again?

Bob


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Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3059463 08/23/20 02:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Anderton
So I was happy to hear some good news about the virus on a right-wing talk radio show (I listen to everything because I don't trust anything). It noted that new cases in Florida were way down. <...>.

I just read in the paper, the reason why the cases are way down is because the testing has been cut in half. Our governor thought the high numbers were hurting his image, so he cut testing.

If people aren't getting tested, they can't contribute to the numbers.

So you may want to postpone your trip here to be safe.

Notes


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Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3059556 08/23/20 08:16 PM
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from the WSJ, I'm hoping the "share" link won't go behind a paywall

Austin Produced Willie Nelson and Others. Can Its Music Scene Survive Covid-19?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/austin...-covid-19-11598175000?st=qnyr3t7x2as6buc


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Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3059580 08/23/20 09:49 PM
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Sad reading.

A few of the places that I used to regularly gig at here in Florida have gone belly-up.

I feel confident that when COVID gets under control, people will want to hear live music again. I hope new places spring up to host both the musicians and the audiences.

A few places have opened here in Florida, but the audiences are slim. Most people are playing it safe and are not going out. The few that are aren't enough to keep a small business alive.

I know I'm guilty of that. I've seen what happens to my in-laws and although they survived, they will never be the same again. The damage is permanent. So I go nowhere that is optional. As much as I'd like to support small, local businesses, I'm choosing to err on the side of caution.

A vaccine can't come soon enough and it will take the wold a long time to heal from this.

Notes


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Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3059665 08/24/20 02:13 PM
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We're all hoping for the best, but a vaccine may be limited in it's effectiveness and the virus may be something we have to live with forever. Putting all hopes on a vaccine doesn't seem to be encouraged. Better have a plan B.

Here's part of one plan B: As I have been advocating for some time here (or was that Notes? confused), AC should be prohibited in places where people gather. Because dry air facilitates the spread of the virus and humidity helps to prevent it. Sorry, can't find the link but I read it on the internet somewhere recently, trust me..

Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3059693 08/24/20 05:25 PM
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I’m guessing getting rid of AC units will be a hard sell. However I imagine there will be a huge number of HEPA filters installed into existing ones.

Last edited by dboomer; 08/24/20 05:26 PM.
Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3059720 08/24/20 07:12 PM
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What a sad article that is. It's one thing to simply say venues are or could be closing but it's another thing entirely to read about specific ones and their stories. One positive was the news the FDA has approved an emergency authorization for antibody therapy derived from blood plasma. 70,000 people have now been treated with that in several trials and it definitely helps. Not a home run cure but pretty good.

Bob


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Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3059831 08/25/20 01:55 PM
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As time goes on the experts learn more and more. They often don't release new treatments as soon as we would like them to, but they want to make sure they do no harm and do enough good before releasing them. To err on the side of caution is often prudent.

Anyone who thinks they should leap before they look, google the drug Thalidomide and also the term "Thalidomide Babies".

A vaccine is the ideal solution, but there is no guarantee.

As plan B, some options are eliminating AC, installing HEPA filters, masks forever, changing frequently touched surfaces to copper, social distancing forever, etc.

I just read where a person who had it caught it again. Not encouraging for herd immunity, but then again, it's always one, and I suppose there would always be exceptions to the norm (if immunity is the norm).

Whatever plan B becomes, it needs to be a science based approach - no politicians, pundits, extremists, clergy, political party opinion, or self-appointed soap boxers. The experts are not always right, but they are correct more often than those others. We're all in this together, and it's time to start acting together instead of as warring factions. We'll never get a plan A much less a plan B if we have too many people defying the science.

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Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Notes_Norton #3059902 08/25/20 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Notes_Norton
I just read where a person who had it caught it again. Not encouraging for herd immunity, but then again, it's always one, and I suppose there would always be exceptions to the norm (if immunity is the norm).

That's not the whole story. The guy is asymptomatic with a low viral load which is exactly what the doctors are hoping for. That makes it similar to other viruses. His catching it the first time did give him enough immunity to catch it again with reduced effects and his ability to pass it to others is lower. Or, should be lower. If the virus mutates, maybe he catches it again next year with reduced effects like what happens with the flu. Combine that with a vaccine next year and hopefully we'll be able to live with this without all this disruption. This is still preliminary and we're learning new stuff every day but I take that as hopeful.

Bob


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Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3059949 08/26/20 04:34 PM
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Very much back on topic, Germans test how coronavirus might spread at a concert.

Quote
Germany held a pop concert Saturday to see how those attending could spread coronavirus if they had it.

German researchers studying COVID-19 packed part of a Leipzig arena with volunteers, collecting data in a “real life” simulation of a pop concert but one with strict health and safety controls.

About 1,500 people took part in the experiment run by the University Hospital in Halle, each taking a coronavirus test ahead of time, testing negative, and having to wear protective masks throughout the day’s testing.

Researchers equipped each volunteer with contact tracers to record their routes in the arena and track the path of the aerosols — the small particles that could carry the virus — they emitted as they mingled and talked. Fluorescent disinfectants were used to highlight which surfaces at the mock concert were touched most frequently.


The great thing about music is that there's always something to learn. The frustrating thing about music is that there's always something to learn!
Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Jazzmammal #3059972 08/26/20 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Jazzmammal
Originally Posted by Notes_Norton
I just read where a person who had it caught it again. Not encouraging for herd immunity, but then again, it's always one, and I suppose there would always be exceptions to the norm (if immunity is the norm).

That's not the whole story. The guy is asymptomatic with a low viral load which is exactly what the doctors are hoping for. That makes it similar to other viruses. His catching it the first time did give him enough immunity to catch it again with reduced effects and his ability to pass it to others is lower. Or, should be lower. If the virus mutates, maybe he catches it again next year with reduced effects like what happens with the flu. Combine that with a vaccine next year and hopefully we'll be able to live with this without all this disruption. This is still preliminary and we're learning new stuff every day but I take that as hopeful.

Bob
Thanks Bob,

I also read that last night. The first article I read was obviously either short or incomplete, or had a hidden agenda. But I can't figure what the agenda was. It doesn't seem to benefit anything. It did state that it was the only one they found and it didn't conclusively say anything.

-------

BTW for the people who say this is like the flu.

My sister-in-law survived. She was in isolation saying it constantly took every ounce of strength that she could muster up just to breathe. She was in a windowless room, the medical pros were so masked and shielded that she couldn't see their faces. She couldn't talk, and was seriously thinking that this was the end, and this is how she was going to die, alone, in a windowless room, without being able to say good-bye. They think she will have permanent lung and heart damage which will compromise and shorten her life, but she will be able to go home soon.

The family now thinks being mask-less was being stupid.

Stay safe. You don't want to get this disease.

Here in Florida, the new case numbers are down again, by about the same percentage as the testing is down. According to the lady who got fired for telling the truth and refusing to fudge the numbers on the state 'dashboard' to make the governor look better. The governor says the state was wasting money on testing that could be used for better purposes.

That's modern politics for you. IMO It is an example of the transition from the leader of the free world to the world's biggest Banana Republic.

Notes


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Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3060001 08/26/20 11:02 PM
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Again...politics is fraught. But facts are not. I don't think anyone would argue that we cannot trust many of those in charge, so we need to look out for ourselves. I continue to remain isolated, not be involved with groups of people, wear a mask (whether it makes a difference or not, it makes a statement that I don't want to cause others problem), and get my groceries delivered. I am fortunate that I have almost always been self-employed, so I know how to make a living in isolation. I have a lot of sympathy for those who have been sandbagged by a problem not of their own making...and that includes naive/unintelligent public officials. I feel sorry for them as well.

We're all in this together, and that means everyone.

Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3060011 08/27/20 01:20 AM
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There are only two things I miss about being in isolation (1) gigging (2) our annual traveling vacation.

I live in a small house on a half acre full of trees. I'm on a dead end street between a lagoon and a protected wetland. I have a wife who spending 24/7 with isn't enough time to spend together. I'm lucky.

I feel for those cooped up in small apartments in densely populated cities.

Notes


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Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Notes_Norton #3060021 08/27/20 04:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Notes_Norton
I live in a small house on a half acre full of trees. I'm on a dead end street between a lagoon and a protected wetland.

So Cottonmouths, gators and bugs that kill? wink

Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3060028 08/27/20 06:40 AM
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I've been waiting for this. The initial reports of cases from the Sturgis motorcycle rally:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/corona...ly-south-dakota-over-100-cases-8-states/

A measly hundred cases out of hundreds of thousands? Multiply that by ten and it's not too bad. I know some were almost cheering for a bunch of "live free or die" rednecks to catch this so they could be all smug and say I told ya so. So, what does this mean, it's almost laughable. People crammed like sardines all over the place with no mask requirement and this is all we get? I'll say one thing with a fair degree of certainty. COVID is not airborne so forget that. If it was they'd be reporting 30,000 cases or something.

Either the total count was way less than 400,000 or something just doesn't add up.

And Notes, you can't trash DeSantis for cutting testing by 50% so he can say the number of cases are going down and then trash Trump for saying the exact opposite by saying no, the US is not doing much worse than the rest of the world because we've done much more testing than anybody else. By dumping on DeSantis you're agreeing with Trumps mantra, "More testing, more cases".

Bob


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Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Joe Muscara #3060033 08/27/20 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Joe Muscara
Very much back on topic, Germans test how coronavirus might spread at a concert.

Quote
Germany held a pop concert Saturday to see how those attending could spread coronavirus if they had it.

German researchers studying COVID-19 packed part of a Leipzig arena with volunteers, collecting data in a “real life” simulation of a pop concert but one with strict health and safety controls.

About 1,500 people took part in the experiment run by the University Hospital in Halle, each taking a coronavirus test ahead of time, testing negative, and having to wear protective masks throughout the day’s testing.

Researchers equipped each volunteer with contact tracers to record their routes in the arena and track the path of the aerosols — the small particles that could carry the virus — they emitted as they mingled and talked. Fluorescent disinfectants were used to highlight which surfaces at the mock concert were touched most frequently.
idk


The great thing about music is that there's always something to learn. The frustrating thing about music is that there's always something to learn!
Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
dboomer #3060045 08/27/20 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by dboomer
Originally Posted by Notes_Norton
I live in a small house on a half acre full of trees. I'm on a dead end street between a lagoon and a protected wetland.

So Cottonmouths, gators and bugs that kill? wink
No cottonmouths unless I walk down to the wetlands, and it's still brackish so I don't know if they are there or not. I know they adapt to that, but they prefer fresh water. I had a coral snake in my house once. I swept it out the door with a broom. A 16' Coachwhip snake lives under my house and I see black racers weekly. My neighbor shot a rattler a few years ago. But other than the racers, I rarely see a snake here.

Cottonmouths are the only snakes around here that I am concerned about. They are hard to see, don't warn you like a rattler, and are easily spooked into biting.

A neighbor had a gator walk through his yard going from the wetlands to the lagoon. He got pictures to prove it. Gators are OK with me. I'm too big for them to hunt, so as long as I give them some room so they don't think I'm being aggressive, they are no problem.

I've seen bobcats, foxes, raccoons, opossums, and other mammals in my yard. I've had gopher tortoises, snakes, and plenty of different varieties of lizards living here. One neighbor trapped a feral hog, another got a coyote on his outdoor camera.

Now skeeters are another thing. The bane of all creation, the creature that kills more humans than any other animal, including other humans. Screens on the windows, citronella grass clumps near the doors, and no standing water helps, but they are just a fact of life.

On the other hand I have trees, live oaks, neem, poincianas, palms, sea grapes, and gumbo limbos all over the yard, orchids blooming in the trees, lots of birds from the tiniest to the +4' tall sandhill cranes, ferns under the trees (that I don't have to mow), and ocean breezes drifting through my house. I can't think of a better place to live (that I can afford anyway).

And Jazzmmal Bob. If DeSantis wasn't saying "Look, I've lowered the number of cases! Aren't I great!" trying to take credit for it and not mentioning it is because he cut funding for testing, he is being dishonest. I guess we have never had honesty from a politician, but I still think we deserve honesty from them.

I think we should be doing more testing because in its early stages I think the medical profession has a better chance of treating the disease, saving lives, and minimizing or eliminating the permanent organ damage so often caused by COVID.

I think 180,000 US deaths is a lot. Some say it's a small percentage of the total population but (1) it isn't over yet and (2) the premature deaths from people who survived but with permanent heart, lung, kidney, liver, brain and other major organ damage isn't counted in that statistic and is probably a much, much greater number. My sister-in-law may lose 10 or 20 years of her life due to the damage.

And it looks like it'll be a loooooong time before we gig again.

Notes


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