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Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Notes_Norton #3037935 04/09/20 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Notes_Norton
I nuked facebook when I found out that they were using each person's likes/dislikes, robotic reading of each person's posts for key words, tallying up the data from all the games and quizzes each person plays and deciding their political bias.

[Linked Image from nortonmusic.com]

I guess I've done alright then. I look through the lens of what seems accurate, scientific, logical, truthful, all that, often going straight to the source. In the case of the coronavirus, reading the scientific articles and models rather than having journalists interpret them for me. And...well, according to your chart, I must have done well. I have a digital subscription to Washington Post, and on Facebook, I have BBC and Reuters regularly showing up in my Facebook feed, largely because I value those publications, but also because that's what their algorithms seem to suggest for me. Also the Guardian sometimes. They seem reasonably accurate and employ investigative journalism, which I value, so I've read these for a while.

I think most people want to be in their comfort zone. They want affirmation, not information.

That does not interest me.

Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3037948 04/10/20 01:05 AM
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Bill Gates chimes in on the importance of testing and a direction to focus. His thoughts seem relavant to our discussion.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/bill-gates-coronavirus-testing-200344998.html


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Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3037954 04/10/20 01:36 AM
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Now if only he could find a way to make Windows less susceptible to viruses. laugh


Dan

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.
Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
J. Dan #3037958 04/10/20 01:50 AM
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Originally Posted by J. Dead
Now if only he could find a way to make Windows less susceptible to viruses. laugh

As always, viruses mutate!

I've had great good fortune with Macs so far - knock on wood.


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Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
KuruPrionz #3037982 04/10/20 04:11 AM
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Originally Posted by KuruPrionz
Originally Posted by J. Dead
Now if only he could find a way to make Windows less susceptible to viruses. laugh

As always, viruses mutate!

I've had great good fortune with Macs so far - knock on wood.

Be careful not to get too complacent. Macs remain more secure than Windows for now, but the number of attacks on Macs continues to increase. And if you have an iPhone, it's probably best to disable Find My iPhone.

Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3037987 04/10/20 04:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Anderton
And if you have an iPhone, it's probably best to disable Find My iPhone.

My iPhome and iPad are company issues and "find my phone" app is REQUIRED. They use mobile device manager to manage our devices and we can't connect to the company network without certain apps and security settings in place.


Dan

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.
Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3037996 04/10/20 05:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Anderton
Originally Posted by KuruPrionz
Originally Posted by J. Dead
Now if only he could find a way to make Windows less susceptible to viruses. laugh

As always, viruses mutate!

I've had great good fortune with Macs so far - knock on wood.

Be careful not to get too complacent. Macs remain more secure than Windows for now, but the number of attacks on Macs continues to increase. And if you have an iPhone, it's probably best to disable Find My iPhone.


I have Avast Security, free and not the very best but it has caught a few attempts. Isolates the intrusion in a "jail" folder so you can toss it. I've considered upgrading, I agree that there are certainly viruses for Macs.

My phone is a $30 Android phone with Tracfone on it. I pay less than $100 annually, just a basic communcation tool to me. I turned off everything I could, have never had the internet working, connected to WI-FI, bought anything with a card, etc.
They can hack it, they'll get my contact list and 3 or 4 photos. Some boring, mundane text conversations. If I lose it replacement is easy and cheap.

Then I just remove my minutes and data from the phone via the website and use it when I get another $30 phone.
Your advice makes sense, even if my reality might not. Cheers, Kuru


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Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3038030 04/10/20 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Anderton
if you have an iPhone, it's probably best to disable Find My iPhone.
Why do you say that, Craig?


The great thing about music is that there's always something to learn. The frustrating thing about music is that there's always something to learn!
Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3038103 04/10/20 03:59 PM
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How Privacy-Friendly Contact Tracing Can Help Stop the Spread of Covid-19.

This would be awesome.

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Nicky Case, working with security & privacy researcher Carmela Troncoso and epidemiologist Marcel Salathé, came up with this fantastic explanation of how we can use apps to automatically do contact tracing for Covid-19 infections while protecting people’s privacy. The second panel succinctly explains why contact tracing (in conjunction with quick, ubiquitous testing) can have such a huge benefit in a case like this:

A problem with COVID-19: You’re contagious ~2 days before you know you’re infected. But it takes ~3 days to become contagious, so if we quarantine folks exposed to you the day you know you were infected… We stop the spread, by staying one step ahead!


The great thing about music is that there's always something to learn. The frustrating thing about music is that there's always something to learn!
Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3038109 04/10/20 04:05 PM
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A little too "big brother" for my liking. Also, how do they know if you're already immune or not? If somebody rides the bus and ends up positive, are you going to quarantine everybody that was on that bus for 2 weeks whether they got it or not? Personally, I think one of the most positive things coming is the test to identify if you have the antibodies or not, for 3 reasons:
1) You can get the "all clear" to go about your business
2) You can donate plasma to help others recover
3) If you don't, you can take greater precautions to avoid it


Dan

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.
Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Joe Muscara #3038138 04/10/20 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Joe Muscara
Originally Posted by Anderton
if you have an iPhone, it's probably best to disable Find My iPhone.
Why do you say that, Craig?

It's mostly about avoiding randomware, not viruses, as mentioned in this article as well as this older article. However, Find My iPhone lets you lock or erase your phone, so the security from that probably outweighs the vulnerability to ransomware.

However there are several ways to make your phone more secure, even if Find My iPhone is enabled, Both articles mention tips along those lines. But there have also been a lot of updates to iOS since 2017, when the most recent of those articles was written. If an Apple fans know whether these issues were addressed in subsequent updates, it would be good to know. I checked Apple's web site, but couldn't find any reference to fixes involving iCloud/iPhone security.

At one point, the iPhone had way more vulnerabilities than Android. But Apple pretty much fixed them all with iOS 7, while Androids continue to be exploited. iPhone is definitely more secure than Android, but of course, nothing's perfeckt.

Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3038165 04/10/20 07:43 PM
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Thanks, Craig! I don't know if that's still an issue. I'll report back if I find anything.

As far as my post about the contact tracing, Apple and Google are doing it. To your point, Dan, this isn't making anyone quarantine. It simply tells you that you've been in contact with someone who was diagnosed. If you're immune and don't care, don't opt-in. Also, this doesn't eliminate the antibody testing we need, the need for a vaccine, nor more testing to find who has it. It's another tool, and the concept seems to have worked well in other countries (yes, they apparently forced their citizens to do this, which isn't the case here).


The great thing about music is that there's always something to learn. The frustrating thing about music is that there's always something to learn!
Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3038314 04/11/20 06:31 PM
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To get back to Craig's original point of this thread. You nailed it Craig when you talked about your clients wanting solid answers and but you can give them are choices based on certain parameters. My background way back in a previous life was an intel analyst. In intel when dealing with a determined and intelligent adversary you never have certainty either. You compile things from multiple sources, some with a high degree of reliability and some not. I used to have access to something called the Intelligence Reference Library with publication that looked exactly like Time, Newsweek except they had names like DIA Journal or whatever and had Top Secret stamped across the top. Everything was edcucated guesswork and I never knew the whole story because of compartmentalization. It's similar to what's going on now. Here's what I see right now.

There are some new stories that are very interesting that show that this thing may not be as bad as first thought. By not as bad I do not mean good, it's nothing to worry about or anything like that. It's still serious and we all still have be careful. One of those stories is about poop testing and another is about wastewater testing. In both cases the virus can be easily identified and measured. The indications are there was and still are many, many more cases then we ever knew about by a factor as high as 200-300%. This radically lowers the overall fatality rate. Now, just last night I read a story out of Chicago about the antibody test done in the poorer urban areas, mostly African American and Latino two groups who seem to be getting hit harder by this. The antibody test is showing a 30-50% positive result, meaning just like the other two tests this virus has already been there long before we even knew it was there. To me as a person who used to have to come up with probabilities of this or that result this looks very promising. I know when I brought up this point a month ago about the fatality rate being much lower than the current numbers show some said well, there's a good chance that early deaths were not identified correctly as being from COVID 19. I disagree because ER's and hospitals don't usually miss stuff like that. It's well known now that the symptoms are not the same as the flu, initially similar but there are definite differences. Those deaths would have been identified as being from a new virus and possibly COVID 19 once it was known about. Further reading on that subject says that a flu test would have routinely been done. That means the concept that if the death rate is a known number but keep increasing the number of cases the overall death rate goes down is correct. Now I'm seeing some medical opinions saying that the overall rate will wind up being the same as the flu, about .1%.

Next is testing. The great thing about this country is yes, we may have gotten off to a slower start than hindsight says we should have but once we get rolling things happen very fast. Abbot Labs already had 18,000 of those 15 minute kits distributed and all they needed was a fairly simple modification to test for COVID 19. Now they will have another 50,000 out pretty soon. The antibody test is the same, availability is rapidly increasing. Faucci said we have done testing on about 1 in 300 already, he would like it to get to 1 in 100. It looks like we should achieve that fairly soon.

IF all of these indications showing the overall number of cases is way larger than we thought, the antibody testing is showing the same thing and by extension there is considerable "herd immunity" we probably can start opening the country up fairly soon like mid May. No, not next week but new info is coming in literally by the hour so if the trends stay positive we can do that. Unfortunately, just from a psychological point of view if nothing else, the thing we're most interested in as musicians, gigging, will lag considerably behind.

Just my somewhat hopeful opinion.

Bob


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Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3038568 04/13/20 04:38 PM
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Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3038572 04/13/20 04:54 PM
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Beautiful, Sir Dave.
It sounds like something my Lummi brother would say, he is an Elder and wise in the ways of the air, earth, water and sky. It is a blessing to know him.


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Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3038795 04/14/20 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Anderton
Personal perspective: There was a run of years where I made a lot of money. I didn't really get to enjoy it, because almost all of it went to taking care of a dying, estranged wife who was sick for over a decade, and paying the mortgage on a house that's now in foreclosure. I'm living in an inexpensive investment condo that my daughter owns. When Gibson fired me along with a zillion other people, my severance was 3 weeks. I drive a 20-year-old used car. My HVAC is over 20 years old, and will need to be replaced soon.

I've never been happier in my entire life.

When my estranged wife died, and I could no longer pay the mortgage on what was supposed to be a dream house and investment for the future, I realized just how little money I actually needed to live. I realized that the universal currency isn't money, it's time - whether you're rich or poor, an hour lasts exactly 60 minutes. It's up to you to decide how to spend those 60 minutes. Some people are much better at spending time than others, and the best time-spenders aren't necessarily the richest folks. That's because a lot of rich people think that money is worth more than time. It isn't..

I never realized that you went through such a rough time. I made crazy money the last 4 years at Chrysler, before I retired 10 years ago ,and many deaths in the family since then, but I hardly had time to travel when I was working. Money will have little to do with our futures, because it will be harder to travel, shop etc. I'm afraid that this level of control won't go away very soon ....if ever.

Dan

Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
techristian #3038829 04/15/20 04:47 AM
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Originally Posted by techristian
Originally Posted by Anderton
Personal perspective: There was a run of years where I made a lot of money. I didn't really get to enjoy it, because almost all of it went to taking care of a dying, estranged wife who was sick for over a decade, and paying the mortgage on a house that's now in foreclosure. I'm living in an inexpensive investment condo that my daughter owns. When Gibson fired me along with a zillion other people, my severance was 3 weeks. I drive a 20-year-old used car. My HVAC is over 20 years old, and will need to be replaced soon.

I've never been happier in my entire life.

When my estranged wife died, and I could no longer pay the mortgage on what was supposed to be a dream house and investment for the future, I realized just how little money I actually needed to live. I realized that the universal currency isn't money, it's time - whether you're rich or poor, an hour lasts exactly 60 minutes. It's up to you to decide how to spend those 60 minutes. Some people are much better at spending time than others, and the best time-spenders aren't necessarily the richest folks. That's because a lot of rich people think that money is worth more than time. It isn't..

I never realized that you went through such a rough time. I made crazy money the last 4 years at Chrysler, before I retired 10 years ago ,and many deaths in the family since then, but I hardly had time to travel when I was working. Money will have little to do with our futures, because it will be harder to travel, shop etc. I'm afraid that this level of control won't go away very soon ....if ever.

Dan

Dang, I had no idea either. All I can say is you continue to be an inspiration to me, Mr. Anderton.

Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3038938 04/15/20 08:29 PM
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Nor I.

I'm glad you're happy now.

Life is short, and happiness is the most precious asset.

Notes


Bob "Notes" Norton
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Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3038942 04/15/20 08:34 PM
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Ever since I've known Craig, one of the things I've admired about him is his perspective on what's important and his general philosophy toward life, creativity, work, and various other things.

Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3038965 04/15/20 10:48 PM
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Just got back from a special event that could only happen under our present circumstances.

As most of us probably have, I've been blessed to have a "family" of special people in my life.
One of those people - Leroy aka The Turtle Man - turned 90 today. He has been coming to our shows with his wife Anne for a few years.
If we play Bad Bad Leroy Brown he will get up and dance.

Today a significant group of my family met in a nearby parking lot and then had a drive-by birthday celebration in Leroy's front yard. We all rolled down our right side auto windows, wished Leroy Happy Birthday and had a brief conversation with him, then moved on for the next vehicle to take their turn.

Leroy was just glowing with happiness to have all his family come by and visit!!!

It makes it easier to continue on my path, mask and gloves are a minor annoyance that could save my life or the lives of others. It's worth it for my family! Cheers, Kuru


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Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3039050 04/16/20 03:05 PM
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Leilani and I donned our mask and gloves, toted small bottles of rubbing alcohol, and went grocery shopping yesterday. Hopefully buying at least 2 weeks worth of perishables.

The experience wasn't bad. The 2 stores we visited weren't too crowded, people mostly respected each other's space, and everybody seemed friendly.

Today it looks like rain. It's been dry for a couple of months, the rainy season might be coming a month early, but then it never did strictly adhere to the schedule.

Notes


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Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3039472 04/18/20 08:08 PM
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I went to the post office yesterday. Almost everyone was wearing masks but were lined up very close to each other. Thankfully, mine was a drop-off, so I was not there more than about 20 seconds. I still swabbed off everything and applied hand sanitizer a couple of times anyway.

Grocery stores around here have been doing pretty well with the "social distancing" protocols and all else.

Stay safe, everyone.

Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
KenElevenShadows #3039476 04/18/20 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by KenElevenShadows
I went to the post office yesterday. Almost everyone was wearing masks but were lined up very close to each other. Thankfully, mine was a drop-off, so I was not there more than about 20 seconds. I still swabbed off everything and applied hand sanitizer a couple of times anyway.

Grocery stores around here have been doing pretty well with the "social distancing" protocols and all else.

Stay safe, everyone.

I was in our post office yesterday too. I taped a label on a package and dropped it off. They have markers on the floor and a notice of maximum capacity allowed inside the post office at the front entrance.
Everybody was observing social distancing and there were flexible clear plastic barriers inbetween the workers and the customers. Most were masked and gloved.

I didn't stay long either but it wasn't too frightening. Now is no time to let down my guard!


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Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3039559 04/19/20 09:44 AM
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Local grocery store is real strict about you HAVE to wear a mask, only one shopper per family, stickers in the floor telling you where to stand for proper distancing, etc.....then half their employees are wearing their masks down not even covering their noses, or just down around their neck, or pulling the, down to talk. I feel like ok if you're going to make me do all this, don't make it all for nothing by being stupid. I think for the most part measures taken should represent the local conditions and situation, so I think in some cases some of the more extreme measures are overkill, while not enough is done in other places. But if you're going to put rules in place, at least follow them. Otherwise what's the point?


Dan

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Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3039907 04/21/20 11:12 AM
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Since trials were previously discussed in this thread, I'll bring this up here.

clonk

Quote
Fuentes enrolled in the Houston arm of a global trial of remdesivir, an antiviral drug that may be the best therapeutic hope in the fight against COVID-19, the disease caused by the coronavirus currently spreading in Houston and around the world. While research involving hydroxychloroquine, an anti-malarial drug touted by President Donald Trump, and transfusions of blood plasma taken from people who’ve recovered from COVID-19 have attracted more attention, remdesivir is the would-be therapy farthest along in the testing process.

Early research results have been promising. In a study published in the New England Journal of Medicine 10 days ago, nearly 70 percent of 53 patients given remdesivir through what’s known as “compassionate use” required reduced oxygen support and 17 of the 30 on ventilators were able to come off them. Then, last Friday, the online health news organization STAT reported that a University of Chicago video shows a doctor saying the institution’s hospital has discharged most of the 125 participants in an ongoing remdesivir clinical trial, almost all of whom had severe disease.

But researchers were quick to note those research efforts didn’t include a group of patients who received a placebo instead of the drug, important for comparison purposes. Such studies, the gold standard of drug testing, are necessary to provide evidence of a therapy’s effectiveness and win Food and Drug Administration approval.

That’s the advantage of the trial in which Fuentes is participating, the most rigorous of a number being conducted. Patients sick enough to require hospitalization are randomly assigned to receive either remdesivir or a placebo, both delivered by infusion for up to 10 days, at 40 academic hospitals around the nation and globe. Baylor College of Medicine is leading the effort in Houston, the National Institutes of Health the overall project.

Early results from the trial are expected by the end of the month. Investigators will compare outcomes in both those who received remdesivir and those who received a placebo to determine whether the drug actually produced more of a clinical benefit. Outcomes are scored on a eight-point scale ranging from fully recovered to death.

The study is double blinded — meaning neither the participant nor the experiments know who’s receiving the actual treatment


The great thing about music is that there's always something to learn. The frustrating thing about music is that there's always something to learn!
Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3039915 04/21/20 12:47 PM
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Maybe some good news for a change. Stanford university just completed a study and the virus may not be as bad as originally thought:

"Based on their results, the Stanford researchers estimated the mortality rate in Santa Clara County to be between 0.12% and 0.2%. By comparison, the average death rate of the seasonal flu is 0.1%."

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-04-17/coronavirus-antibodies-study-santa-clara-county

Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
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That could be good news, but unless we have more testing we will never know.

Of course the other problem is that the total death figures are suppressed by the fact that no one wastes a precious test kid on a someone already dead, and our social distancing and stay-at-home orders have suppressed the spread of a disease that is much more contagious than the flu.

I know there are huge numbers of scientists who specialize in disease prevention and control, and that the longer we can stall off our eventual exposure to the disease, the better chances we have.

I've read some doubts about a vaccine being helpful as some people have caught it twice, but we still don't know enough about that to understand why.

I'm definitely hopeful for the future, but getting there will not be easy.

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Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3040042 04/22/20 12:53 AM
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I don't know why those in control don't simply say "I don't know." Because they don't.

A lot of what's happening is guesswork. This is all too new, and too different, to be able to project about the future based on experiences of the past, under different circumstances.

Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3040047 04/22/20 01:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Anderton
I don't know why those in control don't simply say "I don't know." Because they don't.

A lot of what's happening is guesswork. This is all too new, and too different, to be able to project about the future based on experiences of the past, under different circumstances.

Well, this begs political comment, no? :- D

I could go on, but I won't. Cheers, Kuru


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Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3040066 04/22/20 07:01 AM
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Tonight I read that autopsies indicate the first Covid_19 deaths in the USA were in Santa Clara County CA, well before the death in Kirkland WA.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/autopsies-reveal-first-confirmed-u-042339932.html

That's something we didin't know.

I don't have cites for the other topics below. I check Yahoo news and Yahoo finance throughout the day and they circulate articles constantly.

Recently I've read that the "miracle malaria drug" is not effective and may cause more deaths. The sampling was pretty small as I recall.
So, maybe we still don't know on that one. If it was more than marginallly effective I'm sure the data would have been different - just an opinion.

Another area of testing is for antibodies in those who've survived Covid_19. Not everybody has the antibodies, in fact a fairly small percentage do have them. They don't know if that provides immunity and if so, for how long.
I don't know either.

That's 3 recent things that they are starting to learn more about, there will be more. And then, the virus will mutate...


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