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Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
GovernorSilver #3044404 05/18/20 04:45 AM
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Originally Posted by GovernorSilver
John Hopkins University of Medicine statement on herd immunity

thanks for sharing that article, Paolo.


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Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3044409 05/18/20 05:11 AM
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Actually, it's not that chilling because it supports part of what I just wrote. Also, there's no date but this appears to be the same article that was posted 5 or 6 weeks ago and in the progression of this virus, that's a lifetime. There is some evidence now about herd immunity. He wrote this:

initial studies suggest that perhaps 15-21%6,7 of people have been exposed so far. In getting to that level of exposure, more than 17,500 of the 8.4 million people in New York City (about 1 in every 500 New Yorkers) have died, with the overall death rate in the city suggesting deaths may be undercounted and mortality may be even higher.

This is already ancient history and the death rate is an example of what I wrote about there being no effort in articles like this to look into these numbers and break it down showing how those numbers could affect a normal, average person. The majority of the deaths have been in nursing homes. A huge tragedy and an equally huge failure on the part of the NY authorities. There was plenty of space available on the hospital ship, Franklin Graham's church group in Central Park and the Javits center to handle the nursing home patients discharged from hospitals but no, they were sent back to their so called homes to infect the remainder of the residents. So, not to be callus about it but what does all these nursing home deaths have to do with the rest of us? It's the same thing as my example about prisons. See this from today's NY Times:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/17/opinion/nursing-home-coronavirus.html

Apparently in Connecticut in mid April it was 90% nursing home deaths out of the total? C'mon. It's stuff like this that is making people march on statehouses and City Hall's all over the country. I've said this many times, yes this virus is serious, yes, I'm still being very careful since I'm in the high risk group because I'm 74. I'm speaking from the POV of the national big picture.

I read the links in the Johns Hopkins article and I actually think this Federalist one makes some sense. It exactly the same thing the doctor wrote in The Hill article I posted. Here's the Federalist:

https://thefederalist.com/2020/03/2...-could-turn-the-tide-of-the-wuhan-virus/

I agree with you Craig, lots of contradictory yet informed articles going around yet the underlying fact remains. We need to get going, we will learn to live with this thing and yes, we're now beta testers. I'll make with trembling hands this prediction:

It will work out ok.

Bob


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Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Jazzmammal #3044495 05/18/20 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Jazzmammal
I agree with you Craig, lots of contradictory yet informed articles going around yet the underlying fact remains. We need to get going...

I think what we need first is a cohesive national policy to find out exactly where it is we're going! There is still no overall plan yet, other than "you figure it out." That's not necessarily flawed, but it means the people figuring it out really have to know their stuff.

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I'll make with trembling hands this prediction: It will work out ok.

Of course it will work out okay at some point. I'd just rather have it work out in an intelligent, science-based (yes, I know science isn't always right, but it's the best we've got), and non-partisan way. There's no need to settle for "okay" where with a little intelligence, we could have things work out "well."

Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3044531 05/18/20 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Anderton
Of course it will work out okay at some point. I'd just rather have it work out in an intelligent, science-based (yes, I know science isn't always right, but it's the best we've got), and non-partisan way. There's no need to settle for "okay" where with a little intelligence, we could have things work out "well."

Yup. "Herd immunity" tends to be rolled into exhortations to have coronavirus parties - get people to deliberately infect themselves..

I respect those who want to believe in herd immunity, that it will become real. Nothing wrong with hoping for it to happen.

OTOH using the phrase "herd immunity" as a rallying cry to get people to engage in voluntary infection is something I will not support.

Last edited by GovernorSilver; 05/18/20 08:42 PM.
Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3044619 05/19/20 02:03 AM
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I guess one could consider this good news overall -vaccine progress looks great, but... but... but feel free to delete this Mr. Anderton if it crosses the line.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/18/politics/moncef-slaoui-moderna-stocks-coronavirus-vaccine/index.html

Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3044688 05/19/20 01:25 PM
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I've read in trustworthy publications that a lot of people, even those with no or mild symptoms end up with permanent lung, heart, kidney, brain or other organ damage.

No think you.

I think I'll wait for the vaccine or an effective treatment.

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Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3044819 05/19/20 11:57 PM
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https://www.npr.org/sections/corona...rzXzCDITvW4l7q8mJ4g1ou29IaMnP5jSo2bBDLow

Article doesn't say how strictly patrons to the reopened businesses, churches, etc. adhered to the 6-foot rule, how many wore masks, etc.

At least the governor immediately pushed to increase testing.

Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
GovernorSilver #3044841 05/20/20 01:34 AM
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Originally Posted by GovernorSilver
I guess one could consider this good news overall -vaccine progress looks great, but... but... but feel free to delete this Mr. Anderton if it crosses the line.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/18/politics/moncef-slaoui-moderna-stocks-coronavirus-vaccine/index.html

Personally, I'm impressed that Slaoui is doing the right thing. Instead of selling stock based on insider knowledge, he's increasing donations to cancer research based on his change in careers. Granted, he initially said he didn't feel there was a conflict of interest, but then reversed course a few days later. If the story is as it seems - and CNN is not one to mindlessly boost Trump appointees - it appears Slaoui has decided that maintaining his reputation is worth more than money. I also think it's only fair he donate the delta from what he had before the appointment to the spike that happened after he was appointed, not give up everything that happened beforehand.

I should probably dig deeper, but at least superficially, it seems like this has been handled well.

Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3044896 05/20/20 11:17 AM
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Travis McCready Performs America's First Concert in Months

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The concert offered a preview of what music fans may expect from an industry struggling to find a path forward in the age of social distancing. Forget arenas roiling with sweating, screaming fans. Here, concertgoers were required to buy seats in clusters, or what promoters call “fan pods” — presumably a group of friends comfortable being in proximity — with scores of empty seats roped off on all sides to ensure space between strangers. Of the 1,100 seats available, just 20 percent were available for sale.


The great thing about music is that there's always something to learn. The frustrating thing about music is that there's always something to learn!
Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3044982 05/20/20 07:33 PM
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Our May 22nd gig is officially canceled, no surprise there but now the one my wife booked post apocalypse for June may also be in jeopardy according to something I saw on FB today. We'll see how that shakes out and we've got one for July at a different place that was also booked post apocalypse.

Even though things have begun opening up the "atmosphere" seems a bit weird, I suspect that's a common theme. We had dinner last night at a favorite Mexican place near our house rather than having to leave our county for a sit-down meal. Capacity is limited to 50% and the employees were wearing masks. Suddenly last week, after all this time, the company where I work decided we all needed to wear masks so I'm forced to play the pandemic game until about 3:00pm daily and then I return to my normal selfish self.

Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3044992 05/20/20 08:00 PM
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We're still off until Mid-October. June and July got cancelled, bands are still banned and August and September are traditionally the slowest months of the year for us. So it looks like serenading the neighborhood for a while.

It looks really, really weird to see so many empty months on our calendar. Other than we pre-planned a vacation, we haven't had a blank month since 1985. Now we have 7.

But I guess it's better than playing Russian Roulette with a virus that can leave one with lung, brain, heart, and/or kidney disease.

The weather is beautiful, a nice sea breeze is blowing through the house, the birds are singing, my wife/best-friend is here and we're both healthy.

Life is the perfect way to spend the time of day.

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Bob "Notes" Norton
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Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3045015 05/20/20 09:44 PM
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There have been some well attended outdoor concerts around here recently. I think Memorial day weekend at Lake of the Ozarks will be pretty huge. I'm seeing a lot of bands post gigs that are just getting booked there for the weekend. That weekend at the lake is always big anyway, but I think people with cabin fever itching to see some live music will make it epic.


Dan

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.
Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Greg Mein #3045025 05/20/20 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Greg Mein
Even though things have begun opening up the "atmosphere" seems a bit weird, I suspect that's a common theme. We had dinner last night at a favorite Mexican place near our house rather than having to leave our county for a sit-down meal. Capacity is limited to 50% and the employees were wearing masks. Suddenly last week, after all this time, the company where I work decided we all needed to wear masks so I'm forced to play the pandemic game until about 3:00pm daily and then I return to my normal selfish self.

My daughter did a senior project unrelated to Covid-19 but involved masks for other medical reasons. She says (not surprising) we're not being told the whole story. First, they don't protect you, they're more about keeping what you exhale away from others and even then, they're fairly crude and quality/effectiveness varies dramatically from one mask to another. But she also pointed out that the same well-meaning people who were trying to put an end to plastic straws are trying to be politically correct by wearing a mask, even when doing something when there's no chance they'll run into other people, like going out to the mailbox by themselves. Masks have a finite life, so the overuse of masks is generating large amounts of non-biodegradable waste.

The law of unintended consequences is everywhere smile

Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
J. Dan #3045027 05/20/20 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by J. Dan
There have been some well attended outdoor concerts around here recently. I think Memorial day weekend at Lake of the Ozarks will be pretty huge. I'm seeing a lot of bands post gigs that are just getting booked there for the weekend. That weekend at the lake is always big anyway, but I think people with cabin fever itching to see some live music will make it epic.

Fingers crossed, Dan. Being in a well-ventilated space should help, although now they're saying that the virus can be transported well beyond 6 feet when there's wind. My guess is it will probably be okay. And although the idea that the virus will just magically disappear when Summer hits is pretty silly, there is solid evidence that although the virus doesn't necessarily die in the presence of heat and humidity, its strength is greatly reduced.

If that's the case, then I suspect Nashville will be sitting pretty in July and August - it's hard enough during those months for humans to survive smile

Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3045029 05/20/20 10:29 PM
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I guess we'll know in a couple weeks. The confusing thing about this is we were initially supposed to be doing all this to flatten the curve so the hospitals didn't get overwhelmed. Meanwhile the hospitals around here are empty with thousands of workers furloughed or laid off. One of the bigger hospitals has a total of 2 covid patients right now. So it's not about flattening the curve now, now we're supposed to stay home until there's a vaccine (IF there's a vaccine). They keep moving the goal post.


Dan

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.
Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3045053 05/21/20 12:45 AM
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Yeah, and not only that empty hospitals mean no money coming in. Many are very close to bankruptcy and shutting down and I mean now like maybe the end of the month or June including Mass General in Boston according to an interview with their CEO I saw the other day on CNBC.

It's that serious and there's an unintended consequence for you.

Not to mention he talked about no cancer screenings, cardiac screenings, elective surgeries and many other fairly routine but vital procedures that keep us all from catching all the other nasties out there that are being overshadowed by COVID. Want to be safe from COVID but then have to get chemo, have surgery and maybe die from some cancer or brain tumor or clogged artery or blood clots and who knows what else that could have been caught 8 weeks ago?

I know there's risk but it's time for all this to end, whatever the results we'll just have to deal with it. We're getting very close to the point where keeping everything shut down, 20% unemployment, another Depression really is worse than the disease.

Craig, you wrote a few days ago you want to see a plan from the government. This is it, this is the plan. Go back to work, there will be some spikes and some death but we'll deal with it. We are out of time, guys.

Bob

Last edited by Jazzmammal; 05/21/20 12:48 AM.

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Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Jazzmammal #3045086 05/21/20 03:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Jazzmammal
We are out of time, guys.

Bob

I foresee some serious events occurring soon, potentially even violent. We all know the governor of Wisconsin recently had his uhm .....a$$....handed to him over his stay at home order. Now the owner of Poopy's, a popular spot for bikers near the Mississippi River in Savanna Illinois, has made it abundantly clear he intends to open this weekend in blatant defiance of Governor Pritzker's strict stay at home orders. Overall people around these parts are fairly pragmatic and when they've reached their limits, look out! This is fascinating stuff really. So I had to do some googling and found this, "Illinois Governor J.B. Pritzker is withdrawing his request for an emergency rule​, which would criminalize business owners that defy his 'stay-at-home' order."

Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3045109 05/21/20 05:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Jazzmammal
Craig, you wrote a few days ago you want to see a plan from the government. This is it, this is the plan. Go back to work, there will be some spikes and some death but we'll deal with it. We are out of time, guys.

That doesn't seem like a plan, it seems more like a hope based on a "one size fits all" approach for a country with wildly varying characteristics. Look at the stats. New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, and Pennsylvania are way down. England is way down. California can't get off a plateau. North Carolina, Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, and Texas are moving up. There are spikes galore in some states, and no significant spikes in others.

Remember Y2K? It was hyped as doomsday. Airplanes were going to fall out of the sky, the banking system was going to collapse, nuclear reactors couldn't time cooling, everyone in the US would be eligible for social security unless they were born in 1899, etc. That didn't happen. But, perhaps the reason why it didn't happen is because people took it seriously, and spent countless hours fixing their computer systems prior to Jan 1, 2000. So when doomsday didn't occur, some said "see, it wasn't anything." But NO ONE knows what would have happened if people hadn't taken it seriously, and fixed their computing systems.

There's nothing wrong with being optimistic and thinking that with improvements in active cases and (perhaps) fatalities, we're good to go. But really, are we? Without testing and monitoring, we don't know what's happening. At least part of a plan would be to put an early warning system in place, in case there are places where the virus is flaring up and threatens to spread. That doesn't mean you have to lock down the entire country. It means you better pay attention to make sure we don't make the same mistake twice.

Putting the virus in the past is valid only if we're simultaneously preparing for the future. I'm not seeing that. The phrase isn't "hope for the best," it's "hope for the best, but plan for the worst."

Let's face it, business is not going to invest, the economy won't come back, and companies won't hire while the situation remains uncertain. A plan for the future, and contingency plans, would help reduce uncertainty. THAT is what will make the economy come back...not opening up retail stores.

Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3045110 05/21/20 05:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Anderton
That doesn't seem like a plan, it seems more like a hope based on a "one size fits all" approach for a country with wildly varying characteristics.

IF states follow the guidelines, it is NOT one size fits all. There are 3 defined phases that involve levels of new cases declining and other factors. I think there are so many with cabin fever that the floodgates are opening, but there IS a phased plan with criteria for each phase depending on local conditions.


Dan

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Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
J. Dan #3045116 05/21/20 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by J. Dan
Originally Posted by Anderton
That doesn't seem like a plan, it seems more like a hope based on a "one size fits all" approach for a country with wildly varying characteristics.

IF states follow the guidelines, it is NOT one size fits all. There are 3 defined phases that involve levels of new cases declining and other factors. I think there are so many with cabin fever that the floodgates are opening, but there IS a phased plan with criteria for each phase depending on local conditions.

You're right, there is a plan for "opening up the economy." BUT there's no long-term plan to make sure that it sticks, that the states follow it, that there's enough testing to know if the phased approaches are working, whether travel bans are going to be implemented with (for example) Brazil given what's going on there, what the contingency is for a second wave, and so on.

If we are indeed getting a truce with the virus, that's great. But caution would dictate that we prepare for various eventualities, should the truce not hold until there's a vaccine or other way to mitigate the effects. It was being sucker-punched by the virus that is causing the problems. Imagine how much different things would be if months or years before the first cases hit, there was a full understanding of what a pandemic would mean, and how we would need to prepare for it. We've been given a second chance, unless you believe that once we open up, the virus will more or less not be an issue. It would be great if that's true, but I really don't know if we can count on that. I do believe the economy can survive the current shock, but I'm not sure it could survive a second one.

Again, I don't think re-opening the economy on a major enough level to avoid a depression has that much to do with re-opening retail stores. It has everything to do with companies, the stock market, and consumers having confidence in the future, not just next week. Just look at how the stock market gyrates based on what news gives confidence about the future, and what doesn't.

But hey, what do I know? I'm a musician.

Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3045131 05/21/20 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Anderton
[quote=JazzmammalRemember Y2K? It was hyped as doomsday. Airplanes were going to fall out of the sky, the banking system was going to collapse, nuclear reactors couldn't time cooling, everyone in the US would be eligible for social security unless they were born in 1899, etc. That didn't happen. But, perhaps the reason why it didn't happen is because people took it seriously, and spent countless hours fixing their computer systems prior to Jan 1, 2000. So when doomsday didn't occur, some said "see, it wasn't anything." But NO ONE knows what would have happened if people hadn't taken it seriously, and fixed their computing systems.[/i]
If I recall correctly, lots of people and businesses did nothing or next to nothing and suffered no consequences at all. Obviously, many government and financial institutions had to take measures but countless others didn't need to (and didn't) do a thing.

Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3045160 05/21/20 03:43 PM
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JP Morgan did a study that shows that states that reopened (including mine) are not seeing spikes or an increase in cases. This includes Georgia and Florida, that had many pundits predicting dire things. But this is only after 2+ weeks and more time is needed to make that assessment.

Also, the spike in TX started before the reopening and is a result mainly of rapidly increased testing. This is apparent when you compare the graph for new cases to the graph for testing. This was explained by Sean Trende in Real Clear Politics, his analysis holds up much better than the CNN article.

Another article by Eli Lake in Bloomfield titled "The Results Of Europe's Lockdown Experiment Are In" is interesting, It maintains that COVID deaths or containment does not depend on the severity of lockdowns, but more of how and when they were applied. It specifically mentions Germany and jibes with Craig's observations RE that country.

Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
PrairieGuy #3045188 05/21/20 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by PrairieGuy
Originally Posted by Anderton
[quote=JazzmammalRemember Y2K? It was hyped as doomsday. Airplanes were going to fall out of the sky, the banking system was going to collapse, nuclear reactors couldn't time cooling, everyone in the US would be eligible for social security unless they were born in 1899, etc. That didn't happen. But, perhaps the reason why it didn't happen is because people took it seriously, and spent countless hours fixing their computer systems prior to Jan 1, 2000. So when doomsday didn't occur, some said "see, it wasn't anything." But NO ONE knows what would have happened if people hadn't taken it seriously, and fixed their computing systems.[/i]
If I recall correctly, lots of people and businesses did nothing or next to nothing and suffered no consequences at all. Obviously, many government and financial institutions had to take measures but countless others didn't need to (and didn't) do a thing.

Most businesses didn't have to do anything, because they weren't financial, banking, insurance, or government institutions running mainframes. But that's why there was such concern.The (relatively) limited number of places that needed to do the actual fixes interacted with a far wider group of businesses who, although not having problems themselves, were dependent on the ones that needed to do the fixes. (Also, don't forget that embedded systems were part of the problem.)

According to the Encyclopedia Britannica:

An estimated $300 billion was spent (almost half in the United States) to upgrade computers and application programs to be Y2K-compliant. As the first day of January 2000 dawned and it became apparent that computerized systems were intact, reports of relief filled the news media. These were followed by accusations that the likely incidence of failure had been greatly exaggerated from the beginning. Those who had worked in Y2K-compliance efforts insisted that the threat had been real. They maintained that the continued viability of computerized systems was proof that the collective effort had succeeded. In following years, some analysts pointed out that programming upgrades that had been part of the Y2K-compliance campaign had improved computer systems and that the benefits of these improvements would continue to be seen for some time to come.

There's a more in-depth opinion piece called Five Lessons From Y2K That Resonate Today at Bloomberg.com. The author has a "been there, done that" perspective: "I ran a software company that provided critical systems to about 6,500 banks, including most of the 100 largest in the U.S. We were one of 72 U.S. bank services companies FEMA identified as critical to the financial system. Failure of our software was not an option. Ours was new enough that we didn’t have the Y2K issue ourselves, but we interacted with and relied on other systems that made us vulnerable." His basic take is that those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

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Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
pinkfloydcramer #3045192 05/21/20 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by pinkfloydcramer
JP Morgan did a study that shows that states that reopened (including mine) are not seeing spikes or an increase in cases. This includes Georgia and Florida, that had many pundits predicting dire things. But this is only after 2+ weeks and more time is needed to make that assessment.

Overall, new cases are going down, and that's good news. In the immortal words of Herman Cain, "I don't have facts to back this up" but I suspect where we will see spikes is in individual localities within states, so then the question becomes whether that spreads throughout a state or remains localized. I'm certainly hoping for the latter.

Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3045273 05/22/20 01:43 AM
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In Florida they are fudging the figures to make the governor look good. Fewer cases and deaths are being reported than actual, and they are not aggressively testing to keep the numbers down. An employee who refused to lie and fudge the on-line figures got fired. So we can't go by Florida's official pants-on-fire-count. The governor is not serving the people but his own numbers which is all too common in this day and age.

Plus we are hardly open. Restaurants limited to 25% capacity until this week when it went to 50% capacity. In reality, they aren't even doing 5% capacity. The local newspapers feature stories of restaurants disappointed with the turnout every day.

Bars are still closed, theaters are still closed, live music and DJs are still banned, most retail stores are still closed, hotels are still closed, no music stores are open, theme parks are still closed, cruise ships are not operating, museums are closed, charter fishing boots are moored, barber shops are closed, beauty parlors are closed, yoga classes are still on leave, cab drivers are sitting, buses are riding almost empty, local parks opened and then closed again, and so on. We're not scheduled to return to our 12 year running weekly restaurant gig until October, and only if things are good by then.

A local church tried re-opening a couple of weeks ago, and in I think it was yesterday's paper or the day before that, they went back to on-line services because 16 people got COVID probably at the services as they were elderly and still self-isolating other than church.

Plus nobody is going out. I went grocery shopping yesterday and I don't think there were more than 20 people in a Publix store that usually is jammed with probably close to 150 - zero lines at the cashiers. The traffic is still way, way down on all roads.

A small minority of people are shouting to get back to normal while the vast majority of us aren't eager to play Russian Roulette with something that kill us or leave us with severe, permanent organ damage. A healthy local guy in his 40s got it, survived, but lost his kidneys and needs to be on dialysis for the rest of his life. Tragic.

For all practical purposes Florida is barely open, but it's virtually still in the safer at home mode. The governor says we are open, but the door is barely ajar.

Leilani and I go out every two weeks for perishable groceries, and that's it. Other than that we are home. My 900 sq ft house on a half acre and a 1/10th mile dead end street for walking exercise is our entire world right now except for a grocery run every couple of weeks.

I live on a dead end street, and we all know each other. One person is working, the rest of us are staying home all day and night. I share this world with 12 other households.

Hopefully the cases won't be as bad as the doomsday people predict, but they won't be as light as the optimists predict either. As usual, the truth can be found between the two extremes.

Notes


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Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Notes_Norton #3045285 05/22/20 03:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Notes_Norton
In Florida they are fudging the figures to make the governor look good. Fewer cases and deaths are being reported than actual, and they are not aggressively testing to keep the numbers down. An employee who refused to lie and fudge the on-line figures got fired. So we can't go by Florida's official pants-on-fire-count. The governor is not serving the people but his own numbers which is all too common in this day and age.
And some states fudged the numbers and attributed fatalities to people that died from something else. The only thing you can be sure of is that the media lies, often and blatantly to fit their agenda. The worst performing governor in the US is being praised by the media while far more successful governors are being trashed even though their states have had far fewer fatalities per capita.

Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
PrairieGuy #3045298 05/22/20 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by PrairieGuy
The only thing you can be sure of is that the media lies, often and blatantly to fit their agenda.

And that goes for all media, on all sides of the political spectrum. I can't get over the people who slavishly believe everything they hear on Fox or MSNBC. They're just lazy. "Daddy, do my thinking for me."

Although to be fair, sometimes the media is simply horrifyingly incompetent instead of deliberately dishonest. But, what did you expect, when people won't pay actual money to support the companies that gather the news? That closed down foreign offices? That hired buff guys and cute babes to look good on TV instead of investigative reporters who may not look that great (and if they go too far, might just happen to have some, you know, unfortunate problems with the brake lines on their cars)?

Quote
The worst performing governor in the US is being praised by the media while far more successful governors are being trashed even though their states have had far fewer fatalities per capita.

I really don't agree there is any "the media" speaking with a unified voice on anything. The right wing news outlets say that the left wing controls the media. The left wing outlets say the right wing controls the media. There's a perfect example of why you can't believe either one, and have to really dig to find out what's going on. For example, if you're referring to Cuomo as the "worst performing," he is not being uniformly praised by the media by any means. He's being praised by some, and hammered by others. And it's changing over time, because New York was an "early adopter" and a lot has changed in several months in terms of people knowing what the hell is going on.

And we'll only know which governors were successful, and which weren't, six months from now. It only became clear that Germany had it together, and Sweden's optimism was unfounded, long after the initial responses that Germany was in trouble and Sweden had figured it out. But realistically, anything could happen and if the virus comes roaring back in the fall, maybe Germany will be ravaged and Sweden will be fine. Or vice-versa. No one knows.

This thing has not played out yet, and drawing conclusions is fraught. After all, cases in New York are way down, even though it has the most densely packed population density of any major US metropolitan area, and like LA, is the principal gateway to the world. But does that means it's all over, you can turn off the caution signs? I wouldn't bet on it. I wouldn't bet on anything right now. I'm really beginning to think that at this point, the only experts I can trust are the ones who are honest enough to say "I don't know."

Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3045299 05/22/20 05:39 AM
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What's even sadder is I remember a time when disasters and problems brought people together to find common solutions. Now it's "what's in it for me, screw everyone else."

Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3045304 05/22/20 07:46 AM
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No,that's not true Craig. And what's happening right now is a plan because after what happened in the last two days it's definitely time to open things up and I clearly showed why in the KC forum in the Performing during COVID 19 Pandemic thread so I won't repeat it all here. At this point with the economy it's completely irrelevant what we think about the virus or news coverage. Which ever way it goes, we'll simply have to deal with it. No more messing around with delay this part or that part, it's too late for that now.

Bob


Hammond SK1, Kurzweil PC3, Korg Pa3x, Roland FA06, Band in a Box, Real Band, Studio One, too much stuff...
Re: OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?
Anderton #3045321 05/22/20 02:18 PM
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I don't believe anything to the left of The Atlantic or the right of The Hill.

FOX and MSNBC tell more lies than truth. IMO Everything they say is more likely a lie so I don't believe any of it.

The 'middle-of-the road' outlets are better, but I still take everything they say with a huge grain of salt.

I've posted this before, the group in the middle are less untrustworthy. It's from Politifact.com which appears to be neither left nor right biased.

[Linked Image from nortonmusic.com]

I also read International papers, sometimes the foreign press has a better handle on what is happening here and it also lets me see how the rest of the world views the USA.

I for one don't want to die for the DOW so I'm staying home.

When gigs return, I'll reevaluate the situation, right now i don't have to.

Insights and incites by Notes


Bob "Notes" Norton
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