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Re: Audio Interface Roll Call
Stephen Fortner #3038561 04/13/20 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Stephen Fortner
Just got into playing with their LUNA recording software as well, which I'll get into on another thread.

I'm interested in your experience with LUNA- particularly if it would be advisable for beginners, new to the world of DAW. For now, visually at least, it seems simple and uncluttered, hoping it will fit on a 13" screen than others.

Re: Audio Interface Roll Call
pinkfloydcramer #3038600 04/13/20 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by pinkfloydcramer
Originally Posted by Stephen Fortner
Just got into playing with their LUNA recording software as well, which I'll get into on another thread.

I'm interested in your experience with LUNA- particularly if it would be advisable for beginners, new to the world of DAW. For now, visually at least, it seems simple and uncluttered, hoping it will fit on a 13" screen than others.

The last time people said "the world doesn't need another DAW" was about Studio One, and we know how that turned out smile

Re: Audio Interface Roll Call
Anderton #3038761 04/14/20 05:17 PM
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Update: I put my MOTU PCIe-424 card in my aforementioned upgraded Dell T5600 frankenputer and installed the most recent drivers I could find on MOTU's website, which are from 2015. This required a bit of digging as the PCI-based systems are no longer up front on MOTU's support page, but they're there. (Heck, if you really need it for Windows PM me and I'll send you the ZIP file and save you the trouble.) Official support of this system is only through Windows 8.x. I have 10 Pro. Got everything in place, connected the 2408mk3 and HD-192 boxes to the card (thank goodness I didn't throw out my old FireWire 400 cables), rebooted, and ... everything worked without a hitch. The system sees the interfaces and passes audio, as does all my software on this machine, including Blackmagic's video editor DaVinci Resolve.

About the legacy PT stuff, Craig said:
Quote
Here's what to do with old Pro Tools systems.
1. Disassemble the units.
2. Remove the circuit boards.
3. Spray paint the circuit boards gold, silver, copper, or candy apple red.
4. Mount them in frames.
5. Rent a booth in an art show, and sell them for $50 - $100 each.
That will at least allow you to recoup some of your investment.

Way to bum a brother out, dude! But you're right. My research into this led to a deep rabbit hole of not-worth-the-time-even-during-a-quarantine. But props to MOTU for their stability and longevity.


"I'm just a confused musician who got sidetracked into this damned word business..." -Hunter S. Thompson

Stephen Fortner
Principal, Fortner Media
Senior Editor, Music Player Network
Former Editor in Chief, Keyboard Magazine

Re: Audio Interface Roll Call
Stephen Fortner #3038764 04/14/20 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Stephen Fortner
Update: I put my MOTU PCIe-424 card in my aforementioned upgraded Dell T5600 frankenputer and installed the most recent drivers I could find on MOTU's website, which are from 2015. [snip] Official support of this system is only through Windows 8.x. I have 10 Pro. [snip] But props to MOTU for their stability and longevity.

I know what you mean, I have two MOTU interfaces for mobile use that simply refuse to die smile But I think the much-maligned Windows deserves some props as well. If something works with 8.1, odds are very much in your favor it will work in Windows 10, and if it does, it will probably work with any updates for the foreseeable future. Backwards compatibility has always been one of Windows' strongest points.

However, now that Microsoft is trying to sell more hardware that may change...they might pull the "you need new hardware to work with our updated OS thing" that Apple has perfected. Then again, their cloud services are doing really well, so they might feel the need to make sure their services continue to run with whatever you throw at them.

Re: Audio Interface Roll Call
Anderton #3038767 04/14/20 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Anderton
Originally Posted by pinkfloydcramer
Originally Posted by Stephen Fortner
Just got into playing with their LUNA recording software as well, which I'll get into on another thread.

I'm interested in your experience with LUNA- particularly if it would be advisable for beginners, new to the world of DAW. For now, visually at least, it seems simple and uncluttered, hoping it will fit on a 13" screen than others.

The last time people said "the world doesn't need another DAW" was about Studio One, and we know how that turned out smile

I think the last time was recently in Keyboard Corner regarding a new Behringer DAW.

Oddly, yesterday I got an email from Tracktion/Waveform telling me my entire 3 "Tracktion cash points" were about to expire and everything was on sale.
I don't quite remember how I got there, the link in the email does not take me back there now - but a page came up with a vertical split - on one side Tracktion/Roli and on the other side Behringer/ "some brand I don't remember"

Not sure what that means, did Behringer just buy Tracktion/Waveform instead of doing their own - because "the world doesn't need another DAW"?

Guess we'll all find out eventually, maybe. Weird...

Edited to add that all I could find right now is that some Behringer products used to bundle Tracktion software but that was a long time ago. Maybe they are bundling Waveform now? Odd move for a company that is working on their own DAW.

Last edited by KuruPrionz; 04/14/20 06:20 PM. Reason: Added stuff

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Re: Audio Interface Roll Call
KuruPrionz #3038776 04/14/20 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by KuruPrionz
Originally Posted by Anderton
Originally Posted by pinkfloydcramer
Originally Posted by Stephen Fortner
Just got into playing with their LUNA recording software as well, which I'll get into on another thread.

I'm interested in your experience with LUNA- particularly if it would be advisable for beginners, new to the world of DAW. For now, visually at least, it seems simple and uncluttered, hoping it will fit on a 13" screen than others.

The last time people said "the world doesn't need another DAW" was about Studio One, and we know how that turned out smile

I think the last time was recently in Keyboard Corner regarding a new Behringer DAW.

Oddly, yesterday I got an email from Tracktion/Waveform telling me my entire 3 "Tracktion cash points" were about to expire and everything was on sale.
I don't quite remember how I got there, the link in the email does not take me back there now - but a page came up with a vertical split - on one side Tracktion/Roli and on the other side Behringer/ "some brand I don't remember"

Not sure what that means, did Behringer just buy Tracktion/Waveform instead of doing their own - because "the world doesn't need another DAW"?

Guess we'll all find out eventually, maybe. Weird...

Edited to add that all I could find right now is that some Behringer products used to bundle Tracktion software but that was a long time ago. Maybe they are bundling Waveform now? Odd move for a company that is working on their own DAW.


I was going to say that they still mention Waveform OEM, basically Waveform Pro, as being bundled with Behringer among others.


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Re: Audio Interface Roll Call
Anderton #3038778 04/14/20 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Mighty Motif Max
I was going to say that they still mention Waveform OEM, basically Waveform Pro, as being bundled with Behringer among others.

Thanks M M Max, that explains the posting I saw. I'm sure it will change as Behringer develops their own DAW.
Waveform OEM is probably Waveform Free with an upgrade path and maybe some extra goodies.
Waveform is my DAW of choice, just found it easy to use and stayed on.
I think choosing a DAW is completely subjective and often circumstantial. Some may be better at one thing than another but in the end it's a wash as they will all produce excellent results.
Cheers, Kuru


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Re: Audio Interface Roll Call
KuruPrionz #3038781 04/14/20 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by KuruPrionz
Oddly, yesterday I got an email from Tracktion/Waveform telling me my entire 3 "Tracktion cash points" were about to expire and everything was on sale.
I don't quite remember how I got there, the link in the email does not take me back there now - but a page came up with a vertical split - on one side Tracktion/Roli and on the other side Behringer/ "some brand I don't remember"

Not sure what that means, did Behringer just buy Tracktion/Waveform instead of doing their own - because "the world doesn't need another DAW"?

Hmmmmm . . . . Just about a year ago, Tracktion joined forces with Prism Sound (yes, THE Prism sound), calling themselves Audio Squadron. They were exhibiting together at NAMM this past January, with Tracktion and SADiE co-existing (Tracktion was supplied with the Lyra series of interfaces). But now when I look at the Prism web site, I don't see a peep about Tracktion, it's all about SADiE, the hardware and software they've had for years. Maybe Behringer's parent company, Music Tribe Brands, bought Prism.

"You can't tell the players without a program."

Re: Audio Interface Roll Call
Anderton #3039106 04/16/20 09:30 PM
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I have recently gone to the Apple side with a MacBook Pro and a Focusrite 2i4 (IIRC). I just fool around and need to learn a whole lot more. I don't even know how to edit the wave things. I'm pretty non-tech but Garageband seems pretty friendly. I just need to use it more often. My pleasure is sitting at the piano, playing , singing sometimes, writing/notating music sometimes. I'm just not drawn to practicing with the DAW. But I have to change my ways.

Re: Audio Interface Roll Call
Strays Dave #3039115 04/16/20 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Strays Dave
I have recently gone to the Apple side with a MacBook Pro and a Focusrite 2i4 (IIRC). I just fool around and need to learn a whole lot more. I don't even know how to edit the wave things. I'm pretty non-tech but Garageband seems pretty friendly. I just need to use it more often. My pleasure is sitting at the piano, playing , singing sometimes, writing/notating music sometimes. I'm just not drawn to practicing with the DAW. But I have to change my ways.

Sir Dave, you are not alone!!!
Home studio allows you to do whatever you want whenever you feel like it. That is compelling.
It also creates a conflict between your Artist and your Engineer - assuming they are both you. That is difficult.

Being much more the Artist than the Engineer, I set out to simplify my workflow. Get the basics down, able to fire up the computer, arm a track and go back to being the Artist.
Focus on your goal, there is a reason you want to record. Just learn enough to do that. Limit your options - they are endless and a rabbit hole.

It can be simple if you stay focused. Just use your favorite sounds. Don't worry about using presets, sometimes they work great and they are fast.

Once you are comfortable with that you can make progress. I ended up wanting more inputs so I can set things and leave the settings. Not everybody needs or wants that - your choice.
The less you have to do to get your tracks made the better.

Mixing is a different thing, since you won't be tracking it might be easier to blend the Artist and the Engineer, it is for me.

Once I got to a fairly comfortable place, I challenged myself by doing remixes on Metapop.com. I tried to set different challenges for each remix. At first I just took whatever was next in lne.
I really didn't like some of the music that was offered for remix. That helped me more than I could have imagined!!!!
I felt free to turn it into something completely different. I hated some of the results, that just made me laugh and I submitted them anyway.
Whether the encouragement was sincere or just fishing for "Likes", I took that as an excuse to go way beyond anything I originally thought I would ever want in my own music.

It changed me, now the Engineer is fun too. Have fun, go nuts!!! Cheers, Kuru


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Re: Audio Interface Roll Call
Strays Dave #3039236 04/17/20 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Strays Dave
I have recently gone to the Apple side with a MacBook Pro and a Focusrite 2i4 (IIRC). I just fool around and need to learn a whole lot more. I don't even know how to edit the wave things. I'm pretty non-tech but Garageband seems pretty friendly. I just need to use it more often. My pleasure is sitting at the piano, playing , singing sometimes, writing/notating music sometimes. I'm just not drawn to practicing with the DAW. But I have to change my ways.

Best of luck! I'm having a parallel experience. I'm one of those that never made the transition from self-contained hard disc recorder to computer-based DAW. Since my Boss recorder died my recording has been real-time, solo with Zoom Q-series (loving my Q2-4K). Got an Apple do-thingie because "everyone says they're the best for music apps". Instead, for various reasons, I installed Studio One 4 Artist on my older Windows notebook.

Smart move, starting with the Garageband. I wasn't so smart. Definitely have jumped off the deep end, but eventually I can get a handle on the Studio One, I'm sure. But like you I don't want it to distract from playing. Last night I dug out an old Bill Evans CD "Everybody Digs Bill Evans" and it was like DAMN..I have to learn how to do that! So got away from the manuals for a while.

Re: Audio Interface Roll Call
Anderton #3039494 04/18/20 11:10 PM
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Re: Audio Interface Roll Call
Anderton #3039710 04/20/20 02:05 PM
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Thanks for the encouragement Kuru and PinkFloydCramer. I may have some questions to post when I'm further along. My recordings are all acoustic - recorded with mics. I don't want to use loops or virtual instruments. My piano is a Yamaha F01 (high end Clavinova maybe 8 model years old - I bought new 4 years ago) that sounds authentically acoustic to my ears. With GarageBand I record it with a Rode NT4 (with 2 capsules configured X/Y). I've been able to record my voice and the piano together when positioning the mic in a good spot.

I could go on about my situation, but don't want to pollute this thread with extraneous stuff. I'll probably post a question or two later, relating to my specific situation. My current goal is to do an "album". I know , what else is new ?

Last edited by Strays Dave; 04/20/20 02:07 PM.
Re: Audio Interface Roll Call
Strays Dave #3039732 04/20/20 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Strays Dave
Thanks for the encouragement Kuru and PinkFloydCramer. I may have some questions to post when I'm further along. My recordings are all acoustic - recorded with mics. I don't want to use loops or virtual instruments. My piano is a Yamaha F01 (high end Clavinova maybe 8 model years old - I bought new 4 years ago) that sounds authentically acoustic to my ears. With GarageBand I record it with a Rode NT4 (with 2 capsules configured X/Y). I've been able to record my voice and the piano together when positioning the mic in a good spot.

I could go on about my situation, but don't want to pollute this thread with extraneous stuff. I'll probably post a question or two later, relating to my specific situation. My current goal is to do an "album". I know , what else is new ?

Sounds like you are on the right track to me!
I am also working on an album or 3, I've got around 30 songs I've written that I want to record, for posteriors if nothing else. :- D
Like you, I want the music to feel "real". With no real budget I can't afford to hire local talent or I'd probably be done by now.
I know some great drummers, bassists, keyboardists and vocalists, could make an A team album if I win the lottery.

Otherwise, the world is stuck with me!!! Cheers, Kuru


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Re: Audio Interface Roll Call
KuruPrionz #3039742 04/20/20 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by KuruPrionz
Sounds like you are on the right track to me!
I am also working on an album or 3, I've got around 30 songs I've written that I want to record, for posteriors if nothing else. :- D
Like you, I want the music to feel "real". With no real budget I can't afford to hire local talent or I'd probably be done by now.
I know some great drummers, bassists, keyboardists and vocalists, could make an A team album if I win the lottery.

Otherwise, the world is stuck with me!!! Cheers, Kuru

It sounds like we are on similar tracks. I'm more of an acoustic oriented animal. I love and play plenty of R&R and blues, but on piano. But in the last 4-5 years my left hand has become a fairly competent bass player. So my idea for an album is the piano any my voice on 2 tracks - blended together (I realize they'll be glued together) and played and recorded together in real time - a cajon (with a bass port on the bottom - a Meinl) and maybe a pair of bongos (on a stand). No sticks - brushes or conga thingies (see my photo below).


And then.....my idea is to record in my living room. A human playing basic percussion. For drums/percussion I figure I only need a good back beat with some "flams" (whatever percussion term) on the 2's and 4's. I have a variety of brush things and so on. So - record in real time - me and a pared-down drummer. Then take those 3 or 4 tracks and later on play with and add parts as I see fit. Experiment with arrangement details. Try to apply what I've listened to from my Beatles brethren over several decades of my life.

Now....I live in Orlando. So there are some Full Sail dudes here and there. There's also a much cheaper program at the local Valencia State College - a competing public education options with a great audio program. So I figure I might get a guy who works at Sam Ash or Guitar Center to come record in my living room. All practiced and rehearsed up with the drummer. Record in maybe 3-4 hours. I've actually written some songs in the last couple years. My theory is that if I'm playing a restaurant/bar gig in the future (I'm currently playing 8 "dates" per month at old folks homes - before the plague hit) and someone has several drinks and asks "do you have a CD for sale" - I wanna have one. Or 2 (Kuru). Now I realize
the CD's are obsolete. The players have disappeared from cars. And after CD's have been wiped out, they'll eventually be cool again. And the more difficult they are to actually play (due to the wipe out of CD players) the cooler. And people will start saying that you can hear details blah blah blah.

Oh and while I'm at it Kuru. What's the deal on copyrighting ? Maybe another different thread. I'm afraid to make anything public and get screwed over. I understand that the snowball's chance in hell that anyone notices anything I do, but I have a politically topical song for instance. I wanna put it on YouTube but I'm afraid to before I've protected myself. I know I can Google this - but it's for me about the same as reading income tax instructions - pure drudgery. So do I need to submit a lead sheet or simply a recording and some lyrics.

This is directed to Kuru and I know I've strayed from the point of the thread. Moderator please move it if called for.
A photo of my percussion stuff
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3ui9JUkGl5FWENDcmx2bktucEZGXzZZUDllZkR2WXpkZGs4

Last edited by Strays Dave; 04/20/20 05:31 PM.
Re: Audio Interface Roll Call
Anderton #3039746 04/20/20 05:53 PM
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Great post Strays Dave!

If you are the sole creator, you can copyright 10 songs as a single copyright for one fee. Joint copyright is more complicated and more expensive.

A simple chart with chords and lyrics for each song compiled as a single document and a low quality MONO .mp3 (much smaller file size) with all the songs in the same order is all you really need besides the fee.
I've got quite a few of my songs copyrighted and will copyright the rest before release.

https://www.copyright.gov/registration/

Musicians are putting those square phone codes on a promo sheet by the tip jar now and cards with a link to the downloads. Host your own site with downloads and use Paypal or Venmo if just doing local bar gig business.
You can have CDs, you'll sell a few.
But you're right, they are going the way of the dinosaur. It will be a while before they are gone but currently they run about $2 at the thrift store and not many (if any) places locally to buy them.
I sort of doubt they will be "culty" like albums, they just aren't that cool.

I am both acoustic and electric, have a variety of guitars, basses, percussion, etc. I like your workflow idea, real musicians playing real music.
Spend the time on your own getting your mic setups and your sounds so the others can just show up and start playing. Experiement, sometimes little things make a HUGE difference.
I would get that all worked out before enlisting others, you want to get the best possible results the first time.

Do you subscribe to TapeOp magazine? Subscriptions are free, either online or an actual magazine. Over the years I've learned a TON of good stuff reading TapeOp.
https://tapeop.com
Cheers, Kuru


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Re: Audio Interface Roll Call
Strays Dave #3039750 04/20/20 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Strays Dave
This is directed to Kuru and I know I've strayed from the point of the thread. Moderator please move it if called for.
People here are so darn considerate smile

No problem, but I think starting a separate thread about copyright might be good...for example, how to deal with doing cover tunes on YouTube, whether you really need to copyright or whether the de facto date of creation and proof of same is enough, etc.

Re: Audio Interface Roll Call
KuruPrionz #3040221 04/23/20 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by KuruPrionz
Great post Strays Dave!

If you are the sole creator, you can copyright 10 songs as a single copyright for one fee. Joint copyright is more complicated and more expensive.

A simple chart with chords and lyrics for each song compiled as a single document and a low quality MONO .mp3 (much smaller file size) with all the songs in the same order is all you really need besides the fee.
I've got quite a few of my songs copyrighted and will copyright the rest before release.

https://www.copyright.gov/registration/

Musicians are putting those square phone codes on a promo sheet by the tip jar now and cards with a link to the downloads. Host your own site with downloads and use Paypal or Venmo if just doing local bar gig business.
You can have CDs, you'll sell a few.
But you're right, they are going the way of the dinosaur. It will be a while before they are gone but currently they run about $2 at the thrift store and not many (if any) places locally to buy them.
I sort of doubt they will be "culty" like albums, they just aren't that cool.

I am both acoustic and electric, have a variety of guitars, basses, percussion, etc. I like your workflow idea, real musicians playing real music.
Spend the time on your own getting your mic setups and your sounds so the others can just show up and start playing. Experiement, sometimes little things make a HUGE difference.
I would get that all worked out before enlisting others, you want to get the best possible results the first time.

Do you subscribe to TapeOp magazine? Subscriptions are free, either online or an actual magazine. Over the years I've learned a TON of good stuff reading TapeOp.
https://tapeop.com
Cheers, Kuru


A lot to chew on. First I'll mention I'm not against electric instruments. Probably more against volume for the sake of volume. I have Electric Ladyland on my phone and listen sometimes on walks. But in my living room with a jazz guitar player who's just grown accustomed to playing loudly - to me at least. Anyhoo...

My real concern in my immediate musical project life is to do whatever heavy lifting is needed to achieve copyrights on songs. I'm thinking a new thread is called for like Craig said. So all I'll say is that from your (Kuru's) comment about a single mp3 audio file in mono is best AND that a single document (maybe a PDF?) would mean to me: 1) record all of my songs (I think 7) in succession and the Wave file converted and saved to a mono mp3. The file may end up being 12-15 minutes long. So maybe record as an mp3 ? 2) All of the lyrics scanned (my printer doubles as a scanner) as one continuous PDF file.


I think maybe I should start 2 new threads. 1) Copyrighting the songs, and 2) doing a homemade album . I think in the near term I should begin efforts to record the homemade album on my own - without my projected scheme. It'll be a good while before someone will be coming into my house. I can work on getting ideas for grooves/arrangements for specific songs. And recording some of the ideas. And I can ask for advice from the knowledge hive here on this forum.

And if I'm thinking of these things, others are others thinking of some of these things ? Ponderings. Thanks for advice. Kuru and Craig. And PinkKramer.

Last edited by Strays Dave; 04/23/20 04:13 PM.
Re: Audio Interface Roll Call
Anderton #3040224 04/23/20 04:13 PM
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Those would be good threads, I've learned a TON on MPN too. These are great fora.

If you build it, they will come!


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Re: Audio Interface Roll Call
Anderton #3040306 04/24/20 02:35 AM
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Mainly do live playing, so I like compact audio interfaces:

iRig Pro Duo
Mackie MDB-USB Direct Interface

Re: Audio Interface Roll Call
Anderton #3044669 05/19/20 10:09 AM
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On my Windows 10 studio DAW PC: Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 2nd Generation (USB2)

On my MacBook Pro laptop (Mid-2012, Mojave): Echo AudioFire 4 (Firewire)

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Re: Audio Interface Roll Call
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Possible stray from OT: I already have a Focusrite 18i8 which works well in a stationary application with AC power available and a bit of room. For an upcoming project, I'm considering a Zoom H4n Pro primarily for audio recording of a class, but also for application to connect to my Macbook Pro or Zbook 17G2 notebooks for quality audio in and out. The 4 channels is enough for this application, mostly will be only two.

Any comments by someone who uses this Zoom would be appreciated.


Howard Grand|Hamm SK1-73|Kurz PC2|PC2X|PC3|PC3X|PC361; QSC K10's
HP DAW|Epi Les Paul & LP 5-str bass|iPad mini2
"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
Jim
Re: Audio Interface Roll Call
Anderton #3044814 05/19/20 11:33 PM
Joined: May 2003
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I still use my MOTU Audio Express for recording. I'm on a 2015 MBP so I've had to revert to USB and the power supply as opposed to Firewire (with a Thunderbolt adapter, for whatever reason this interface doesn't like to see adapters). If I needed to start from scratch or expand beyond what I have now I would definitely look into the MOTU M4 or the Arturia Audiofuse.

Live, I have switched to a Radial Key Largo to sum my Nord Electro and Mainstage and run my Strymon Volante in the effects loop.


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Nord Electro 5D, Novation Launchkey 61, Logic 9, Mainstage 2, Kontakt 5, AAS & Arturia stuff, fingers, pencil, paper.
Re: Audio Interface Roll Call
Anderton #3045568 05/24/20 02:35 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
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I bought an RME Hammerfall and Multiface II combo in ~2012. I don't plan to upgrade any time soon. I think it's a great, flexible combo, and while I really only need two channels active at a time, having 8 gives me future flexbility.

I used to have an M-Audio Delta66 and while it wasn't bad in hindsight, the RME combo takes away any excuses. Absent buying an Apogee clock and high-end, discrete converters, I don't think I could do better.


Sundown

Just Finished: Condensation; Two Button Press
Working on: The Jupiter Bluff; Fishing in Kingsbury
Main axes: Kawai MP11 and Kurz PC361
DAW Platform: Cubase
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